54216 replies to this topic

[Psychox]

I don't dislike Hinata. I even sympathize with her sometimes. I'm just known to have a critical viewpoint of her character, partly because of her overblown fanbase who exaggerate her good traits/actions and either excuse/ignore her bad traits and acts. I've never in my life hated Hinata, I like her sweet and gentle personality. What prevents from being a fan of her is that she's so underdeveloped and static as an overall character. Since I'm the type of person who likes layers and depth in a character, Hinata either mildly bores or disappoints me. I just want Kishimoto to work on her more, that's all.

Yeah, i hear you sis , i actually kind of liked part 1 Hinata to some extend , although it kind of lost its magic when she couldn't decide for who she should cheer during the chuunin exams..
Her role has been played out , she is done and Kishi showed the last 20 chapters that he doesn't pay that much attention to her side heroine status with her lines and thoughts overall .

 

I also don't enjoy blaming Hinata for doing nothing when Naruto was suffering because I do understand she was shy. Hell, I'm kind of shy myself ever since I was younger. Though I understand it, I don't excuse it. Hinata could've saved Naruto the suffering he went through if she reached out to be his friend. Not only that but if she did, her likelihood of being with Naruto would increase based on that alone. Yet she did not, and that is Hinata's fault by itself. I only ever make an issue out of this when I see fans excuse everything by saying "She loved him from the beginning so much, Sakura hated him". Yeah, okay. Did she do anything with it? Nope. Sakura started getting the advantage not only when she started to care for him as well, but when she was always by his side literally.  Not metaphorically like Hinata.

 

I strongly believe that each individual was shy at some point in their live,but when you love someone (or as that section of the fandom claims that its genuine) you should've done something to skew the person's world in understanding that he is not alone and suffering in the hell of loneliness. A simple smile can convert a lot ,trust me.

Sakura disliked Naruto ,but for different reasons not because he was the demon fox that everyone shunned, he just found him annoying and being in her way ruining her time  of her race to win prince Sasuke's <3 heart ^^. At least she talked to him and not looked at him with ''those eyes'' that's what makes me think that Naruto got his crush on Sakura ^^.

 

 

 

Do you refer to the cover of the Road to Ninja prequel one-shot? Not even that was intended to be about pairings, it was meant to show the main personality traits of the AU! Konoha 12. AU! Sasuke's trait was being a playboy so that's why he's all over Sakura there, and AU! Hinata's trait was her aggressive possessiveness so that's why she grabbing Naruto while flipping the bird to the readers.

 

People thinking that cover had to do with pairings is the result of that imaginary idea about Kishi caring for pairing wars. They make themselves believe Kishi is saying with that cover "Look how Naruto and Sakura have to deal with their respective true love interests" when in reality is more along the lines of "Look at how the characters have changed in this AU!, pretty interesting".

 

This is very true , I've heard from a fan from certain fanbase that the cover of 64 was drawn to make people in japan ship NH.. Naruto grabbing hinata's hand in a vivid motion , the entire context the whole manga the flow of the story, everything else that happened beforehand doesn't matter. I think that people react to the last thing that has happened ..

Folks believe that they want to and reach far beyond what is the book itself ,digging nails in pairings like its something worthwhile its beyond any reasonable explanation , actually you gave it as an answer a couple of pages back.

Edited by Psychox, 10 October 2013 - 06:51 PM.

[Canadian_DJ]

http://love73love.wi...xhibition/c199t

 

From the latest narusaku 73love event in japan.

[TouKen4Life3g]

http://love73love.wi...xhibition/c199t
From the latest narusaku 73love event in japan.

So not only they can celebrate Naruto's birthday but NaruSaku event as well. Wow, I wish I was there.

[megi]

So not only they can celebrate Naruto's birthday but NaruSaku event as well. Wow, I wish I was there.

 

It's a web anthology, so everything is there for you to see! Look under "exhibit"

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

It's a web anthology, so everything is there for you to see! Look under "exhibit"

Ooo. Thank you!

[Question22]

Sooo what are you guys going to do when our OTP becomes Canon? <3

[TouKen4Life3g]

Sooo what are you guys going to do when our OTP becomes Canon? <3

Explode. Why you ask? :)

[Smiter]

http://love73love.wi...xhibition/c199t

 

From the latest narusaku 73love event in japan.

 

That's awesome, thanks for the link. 

 

*basks in NaruSaku feels before he has to go to work*

[rocci]

NS revelation is as important as who's tobi, pain, or naruto's parent.
And we should differentiate what is canon and what is fanon.
And I agree with redragon.

[Inferno180]

I'm really wondering how the battle will turn out in the near future plus the next  future NS moment. I mean Sakura has been getting a lot of screentime recently, moreso than in volume 66. I mean Hinata has been regulated to the back for all purposes for now, yet she got a minor statement from shikamaru's recovery about wanting to be next to Naruto, and thats somehow considered important and critical to add. Its just again, I don't see how NH can even come forward at this point, so much was invested in NS and focused upon it before, I just don't see how they can expect it to come forward. Mainly 631 put such a huge divide in terms of what NH needs to do its just seriously a lot it would need to make up and overcome in order to actually work.

 

I mean people still claim Naruto is over Sakura despite 631s NS pointing hint with Kushina, yet they still call Naruto over Sakura. Yet people don't explain how he is exactly over her, I mean this is the hardest thing to prove, if Naruto was over Sakura then how much did people ignore why Sakura did what she did in the land of iron jumping only to Naruto's liars statement and disregard everything else? Some people have said he got over Sakura a long time ago or that he was over her during the hug, I'm sorry the fact that he was shocked at Sakura hugging him cause she never did that before wasn't easy enough to say? This is why NH arguments are becoming weaker as time goes on. We got 469 and ok, that was a pefect opportunity at the time to advance NH. Yet nothing ever came. No shinobi world war arc time for Hinata, just a minor nod to what she did in pain and thats it. 615 came, NH fans thought they won despite Sakura still having a lot of time left to develop with Naruto, and just plain simple little to no prior development. I mean seriously we at least got an anime filler showing a nod that Naruto still loves Sakura, he said it himself. RTN was made by kishi and had a secondary relation focus on NS. But nothing from the period of 469-until 615 came anything notworthy for NH. Yet NH had its moment in 615, it quickly vanished, and then 631 came to cause a ****storm which caused fourms to be locked down because simply the aspect of Naruto liking the idea of Sakura as his girlfriend or Minato thinking Sakura is like Kushina was enough to piss off a large group of the fandom depsite the obvious hints being there, so people raged despite the obvious signs and were angry at it. Its like driving on the highway and seeing no speeding sign yet you ignore it and speed and get pulled over and try to act it out despite the fact is simple though, you just ignored what was right in front of you and you try to find justication in your anger, sorry thats just an excuse, the real term we were looking for was arrogance. There were clues for Sakura=Kushina. It was simple, yet NH was so assured nothing came for it and its moment ended fast. No one considered Sakura seriously then just reacted violent and ranted demanding kishi change stuff that he was ruining the story. Sorry just no just no. If people still don't consider NS just by 631 being a simple hint, if they don't take it at least like that, then if the next NS moment makes a canon pairing then well its going to be a disaster all over again. Simple because people didn't listen. Rather they chose not to listen, aka bringing up arrogance.

 

I'm not bashing I'm just saying, NH isn't holding up as it once did in the past, it had such potential and the setting for the events after 469, kishi could have done some dramatic changes in Naruto and Sakura's relation, focusing more on Hinata. That was the potential but it never came. No answer for Naruto to Sakura ever came either, yet 631 was a positive close indicator for the events since then. I'm not saying NH cannot become cannon, its just that it has a very very very very hard time to actually do it at this point and still make sense.

[Paptala]

^Well said. I do believe only the side characters would fall to the victim of not getting so much development to get a closure and let the epilogue does the work for him. However, I believe the main characters will get their closure before the epilogue because it's clear that Kishi shows more passion when dealing with the main characters as well as those who relates to him, such as Minato or Jiraiya. It's just priority and wanting to tell a story. I don't have doubt that he will leave them hanging because right now, Kakashi is receiving the ultimate closure, starting with his best friend, Obito. The rest of Team 7 are built up for the next and last phase with the hype of Naruto vs. Sasuke, Sakura's dilemma with both (one shows too much care, the other shows distrust), and so on. I can only wait how this arc concludes to give you the idea of what's going to be the ending for all. It's a secret clue, much like Sakura hugging Naruto after Pain, so something similar were to happen, in any form, then you most likely understand the path.

Oh, I don't doubt that Sakura's character will receive closure (as you said, she's a main character, so it's hard to even conceive that he wouldn't finish her off in some manner) - what I have some concerns about is whether he will give her a satisfactory resolution.  It's certainly a subjective issue to some degree, but I imagine most everyone outside of SS fans would agree that a SS ending, or even one with Sakura still loving Sasuke would not be a very satisfactory resolution to her character, for example.  For a canon example, Sakura's conclusion at the end of the summit arc wasn't very satisfying for many people either ("I can't do anything.  The only thing I can do now is believe in them.").  It seemed as though she were sidelining herself, which felt very weak for someone who had been very determined to protect/save her teammates up until that point.  So I was very glad that that wasn't the end of it, and she reasserted herself at the end of 631.

 

I hope at the very least, Kishimoto confirms that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade, and Sakura gets over her romantic love for Sasuke, realizing that she deserves better.  I would, of course, prefer a confirmation that she is romantically in love with Naruto as well, but I don't consider that essential to a satisfactory resolution for Sakura's character.

 

But moments like 632, 635, and this past chapter give me some hope that we'll see the two things I want most for her on some level.

 

 

 

Whomever said Naruto is a Gary-Stu needs to close their mouths immediately, because he isn't even one. Sasuke, on the other hand is in that territory.

While I definitely disagree that Naruto is a Gary Stu, I can understand why some people would think he is one though, especially since, as I mentioned, he certainly has some aspects of one - ridiculous powers, beloved by practically everyone, heir to multiple special/very powerful legacies, the child of prophecy/the savior, etc.  This is even more understandable in wake of the last chapter where everyone was wanking Naruto really hard.

 

I don't don't know if part 2 Sasuke is more in that territory than Naruto is, to be honest.  Just like Naruto, he has aspects of a Gary Stu (he's incredibly good looking which multiple characters comment on throughout the story, he's heir to a very powerful legacy, he's a genius, etc.) - but he's not beloved by many, and those that do love him, acknowledge his way of thinking is messed up.  He also has flaws that are pointed out in the story, and we all know he's going to be defeated and proven wrong in the end.  He's ultimately going to fail.

 

I think the closest we had to a Gary Stu in this story was probably Minato before this war gave him more quirks (i.e. behaving in stupid or flashy ways similar to Naruto).

 

 

The funny thing that you mentioned is that the fact no matter what, Sakura/Rin will be covered because it's part of Obito's life. When you mentioned about never gave up, the only problem that is left is how to deal with the love of your life if it's too late to go back. Naruto doesn't know that from Obito. I remember Yamato said that if he were to save Sasuke and protect Sakura (note: not mentioning anyone else), then he will do it with his own hands. The reason why I brought it up is because Obito wanted to protect Rin, but failed because of his "death", so he trusted Kakashi to do so. That failed too. So it is linked with trust and protect. That said if you bring one of the team member, whether it's Sasuke or Sakura or Kakashi, it will be linked.

 

This is the current problem with Obito that he don't feel like he got the answer, rather keep getting told or schooled. Naruto is just answering him from himself, but never connects the dot. At some point, it will be either Kakashi (highly likely) or Obito to tell Naruto why he is like this today. Heart to heart conversation must happen to win Obito in TnJ battle. That's why Naruto lost to Sasuke back in VotE because he had less connections and well, Sasuke just win in strength, but in terms of converting him, it stung him but it didn't work. Now, Obito and Naruto can't be anymore similar. If Obito wants a answer that he wants to hear, they must connect now.

At the bolded:  That's a really interesting connection to consider.  Perhaps that's why he brought up Sasuke's betrayal - perhaps Obito is connecting Sasuke's betrayal of Naruto's trust in him to the way he considers Kakashi betrayed his trust in him by "killing" Rin.

 

I completely agree about the need for Naruto to fully understand the entire story of Obito in order to TnJ him properly - Obito cannot get the answer from Naruto he is looking for until then, and Naruto will not be able to emotionally reach him until that point either.

 

 

It's hard not to imagine Naruto's love for Sakura coming into play somehow, since Kishi showed us more than was necessary of his love for Rin and how similar it was to Naruto's love for Sakura (especially the scene with Minato asking Obito if he liked Rin).  I mean, did we really need to know these details?  The entire silent chapter was pretty much just about Obito's feelings and relationship with Rin.  We already knew he loved her from the Kakashi Gaiden, so if all Kishi wanted to do was let us know why he freaked out so much over death, it wouldn't have taken an entire chapter to do so, no?  Much less make so many similarities with Naruto's love for Sakura.

 

It all seems very pointless if it isn't going to go anywhere.

 

I still expect an ObiRin/NaruSaku parallel confirmation as well, since I really can't see Obito listening in any other way. Naruto needs to know his story in order to redeem him. It's just a matter of time. It doesn't have to mean Sakura will die to really prove it, but she should be involved.

I don't think Sakura has to die to prove it (I wouldn't want her to either, even with a revival - death doesn't need to be anymore cheapened than it already has been, imo), but I do think Naruto should at least think she is dead, so that he can experience similar emotions as Obito did.

 

Recall that Naruto couldn't understand Sasuke fully until he also experienced the loss of someone dear to him and felt the same desire for revenge himself.

 

I think the same thing needs to happen here as well - Naruto needs to experience the pain of thinking Sakura is dead in order for him to really understand Obito's pain and successfully change his mindset.

 

Whether that will actually happen or not, I can't say, but I do think its the most logical in terms of what we've seen thus far.  

 

I'm curious though, how would you see it going down with Sakura's involvement?

 

Do any of you think Kishi really cares for pairing wars? I think that's a believe that has come from the imagination of fans who care too much about the pairings instead of the story itself.

 

From what I recall in Japan they don't really care about pairing wars. In Japan SS is popular because the girls like the fan arts, practically nobody cares about NH, and pretty much everyone saw that NS is the obvious conclusion that would go along with the story.

 

I think we should look towards the japanese audience in how to really view pairings.

 

I still remember how the excuse used for 631 was that Kishi likes to play around with the pairing so that's why that chapter didn't matter much. I couldn't believe that people really deluded themselves to such a point. As if Kishi would modify the structure of his story because he likes to stir some supposed pairing war that was invented by the fans. That thinking is beyond pathetic.

 

People have even said that Kishi keeps up the pairing wars because of the sales... what freaking sales? The only ones who become obsessed with pairing wars are probably the ones who don't even care to buy the volumes and just read the scans, and they have the nerve to claim Kishimoto is taking their stupid opinion in mind. Get real.

 

That's all I have to say. From what I see pairing wars are the result of the fans imagination, and don't have anything to do with the intentions of Kishimoto. What do you guys think?

I think Kishimoto is aware of the interest his fans have in the romance subplot at the very least.  There have been numerous interviews where the romance subplot has come up, after all (e.g. "Are you going to have any of the romances requited?  We hope Hinata gets her chance! -- Me too." and then the interviews after Sakura's confession to Naruto are the two I can recall off the top of my head).

 

I don't know if he's aware of the pairing wars however - J.K. Rowling, for instance, was very surprised to learn about the shipping wars between H/Hr & H/G and R/Hr.  I would imagine that Kishi probably would be very surprised as well (much like he was surprised at Hinata's popularity), and also believe that the answer to the final ship is pretty clear.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if 615 was the result of Kishi and/or his editors noting that Hinata had become a fairly popular character and decided to show her more as a result (especially considering that characters such as Hiei and Vegeta only became such major, recurring characters in their respective series because they were so popular with the fans).

 

Do western shipping fans read way too much into certain things?  Absolutely yes.  I fully agree that it has nothing to do with keeping up sales.  Kishi is filthy rich from this series already.  I highly doubt money is factoring into this at all.  And more importantly, as you mentioned, pairings are not going to significantly effect his manga's rating, if at all - this is a fighting shounen manga directed primarily at middle school boys lol, and I think a lot of people tend to forget that at times (I'm guilty of this myself).

 

 

 

Do you refer to the cover of the Road to Ninja prequel one-shot? Not even that was intended to be about pairings, it was meant to show the main personality traits of the AU! Konoha 12. AU! Sasuke's trait was being a playboy so that's why he's all over Sakura there, and AU! Hinata's trait was her aggressive possessiveness so that's why she grabbing Naruto while flipping the bird to the readers.

 

People thinking that cover had to do with pairings is the result of that imaginary idea about Kishi caring for pairing wars. They make themselves believe Kishi is saying with that cover "Look how Naruto and Sakura have to deal with their respective true love interests" when in reality is more along the lines of "Look at how the characters have changed in this AU!, pretty interesting".

I think it could have been fanservice - SasuSaku has always been a very popular pairing since the manga's inception, and NH has been recently gaining in popularity as well (though I could be wrong about the last point).  I don't believe that it was some marketing strategy though meant to imply the future canon pairings.

 

If anything, the cover depicts NH and SS in a pretty negative light.  Naruto couldn't look more uncomfortable with Hinata hanging all over him, indicating that Naruto doesn't feel even a base physical attraction for her, much less deeper romantic feelings.  And Sakura is acting like a fangirl over a Sasuke whose personality is completely different than his normal one, implying that her love for him is shallow and based only on his looks (or, alternatively, that the Sasuke she thinks she is in love with couldn't be farther than the actual Sasuke).

 

I don't see anything positive for either of these pairings at all - at best, its comical and not meant to be taken seriously in any way, and at worst, it pretty much highlights why the pairings wouldn't work (i.e. Naruto doesn't have sexual/romantic feelings for Hinata and Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are shallow/not for who he actually is).

 

Yup, pairing wars are just from the fans who are really clinging into pairings and disturbed by other pairings in the Western. In Japan, no one is taking a pairing war into consideration, not even debating about this pairing and that pairing. Well, they bring up the subject, but just opinions. We don't see people making arguments here and there for which pairing is going to be. They just read the manga and know NS is the pairing that is going to happen from the beginning. It's not that hard to know that, actually. He's aware of pairing wars, but doesn't give them credit.

 

Also, there's something I noticed. From what I see in the manga and think about it, Kishi makes fan services for characters who are popular especially side characters. Hinata, Shikamaru and Gaara are the ones who get more action or panel time than other side characters. I know Hinata isn't that popular in Japan, but she has some base of popularity, though not as much as the main characters and other side characters. Maybe I'm wrong and Kishi putted those side characters in the top three of the side characters for more screen time and stuff in his head from the beginning. But, still, some chapters in the manga have them much focused at some points.

I agree with this, especially the bolded.  Kishi definitely is aware of the fan's interest in the pairing wars, and I definitely think that he gives fan service in accordance with character popularity (wasn't it confirmed that he was going to kill off Neji at the end of part one, but then kept him alive due to fan popularity?)  I think much can be said for Hinata.  I think Kishimoto intended to be finished with her character after the Pein arc, and then had more of her in the war arc because of her increased popularity with the fans (this could explain why Kishi seems to be going in circles with her characterization and only having her be focused on her feelings for Naruto).  Didn't we see the same thing with Neji?  He didn't really do much of anything in part two for the majority of it because his character was originally supposed to be dead and Kishimoto just didn't know what to do with him.

 

 

 

I don't see why he should care, I know I wouldn't. The pairings and pairing wars are not what drives the story, it's fans that make it out to be way more important than it is, it's a subplot, not at the center of everything like people tend to convince themselves. And as for pairings affecting sales, I doubt it, I don't see making one pairing canon over the others either increasing or decreasing sales, so long as it makes logical sense for what the story has presented so far. I don't believe Kishi intentionally incites the pairing wars, but fans that mistakenly interpret it that way. He teases yes, as a way to keep tension in the romance subplot, but he is far from the only writer to make use of such a tactic, it's a very common tool in storytelling, and one people just seem to fall for time and again.

Agreed 100%.  I think that NH and SS are simply there to be a catalyst for the girls' characters, and to be obstacles/red herrings to NaruSaku.  This makes sense since we barely got any development from the guys to the girls in part two (SS is really just Sakura's feelings towards Sasuke in part two, and NH isn't much better off, even with 615, since it wasn't romantic).

 

 

http://love73love.wi...xhibition/c199t

 

From the latest narusaku 73love event in japan.

 

I can't open any of the links ;__________; 

 

@ Inferno:  I agree.  The argument that Naruto was joking in 631 or that the parallels are meaningless/a red herring doesn't really hold water.  Why would Kishi tease at another pairing if 615 was supposed to make NaruHina canon?  Why would he confirm that his foreshadowing from 504 indicated NaruSaku, rather than NaruHina?  It just doesn't make any sense at all.

 

At the very least, we should have seen something romantic from Naruto at this point towards Hinata - a blush, a smitten smile similar to the one he gave Sakura in 246, a romantic thought, addressing her with a -chan suffix, or declaring that he'll protect her - something to show that he views her in a different light now.  But no, he treats her just the same as did before, and moreover, still treats Sakura the same as he always has as well.

 

If NH is the canon pairing that he is going towards, 631 really cheapened it.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Oh, I don't doubt that Sakura's character will receive closure (as you said, she's a main character, so it's hard to even conceive that he wouldn't finish her off in some manner) - what I have some concerns about is whether he will give her a satisfactory resolution.  It's certainly a subjective issue to some degree, but I imagine most everyone outside of SS fans would agree that a SS ending, or even one with Sakura still loving Sasuke would not be a very satisfactory resolution to her character, for example.  For a canon example, Sakura's conclusion at the end of the summit arc wasn't very satisfying for many people either ("I can't do anything.  The only thing I can do now is believe in them.").  It seemed as though she were sidelining herself, which felt very weak for someone who had been very determined to protect/save her teammates up until that point.  So I was very glad that that wasn't the end of it, and she reasserted herself at the end of 631.

 

I hope at the very least, Kishimoto confirms that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade, and Sakura gets over her romantic love for Sasuke, realizing that she deserves better.  I would, of course, prefer a confirmation that she is romantically in love with Naruto as well, but I don't consider that essential to a satisfactory resolution for Sakura's character.

 

But moments like 632, 635, and this past chapter give me some hope that we'll see the two things I want most for her on some level.

 

 

While I definitely disagree that Naruto is a Gary Stu, I can understand why some people would think he is one though, especially since, as I mentioned, he certainly has some aspects of one - ridiculous powers, beloved by practically everyone, heir to multiple special/very powerful legacies, the child of prophecy/the savior, etc.  This is even more understandable in wake of the last chapter where everyone was wanking Naruto really hard.

 

I don't don't know if part 2 Sasuke is more in that territory than Naruto is, to be honest.  Just like Naruto, he has aspects of a Gary Stu (he's incredibly good looking which multiple characters comment on throughout the story, he's heir to a very powerful legacy, he's a genius, etc.) - but he's not beloved by many, and those that do love him, acknowledge his way of thinking is messed up.  He also has flaws that are pointed out in the story, and we all know he's going to be defeated and proven wrong in the end.  He's ultimately going to fail.

 

I think the closest we had to a Gary Stu in this story was probably Minato before this war gave him more quirks (i.e. behaving in stupid or flashy ways similar to Naruto).

 

 

At the bolded:  That's a really interesting connection to consider.  Perhaps that's why he brought up Sasuke's betrayal - perhaps Obito is connecting Sasuke's betrayal of Naruto's trust in him to the way he considers Kakashi betrayed his trust in him by "killing" Rin.

 

I completely agree about the need for Naruto to fully understand the entire story of Obito in order to TnJ him properly - Obito cannot get the answer from Naruto he is looking for until then, and Naruto will not be able to emotionally reach him until that point either.

 

 

It's hard not to imagine Naruto's love for Sakura coming into play somehow, since Kishi showed us more than was necessary of his love for Rin and how similar it was to Naruto's love for Sakura (especially the scene with Minato asking Obito if he liked Rin).  I mean, did we really need to know these details?  The entire silent chapter was pretty much just about Obito's feelings and relationship with Rin.  We already knew he loved her from the Kakashi Gaiden, so if all Kishi wanted to do was let us know why he freaked out so much over death, it wouldn't have taken an entire chapter to do so, no?  Much less make so many similarities with Naruto's love for Sakura.

 

It's hard because you think how it can be played?
obito wont access Naruto's memories and msot important Sakura is virtually immortal here, there's Tsunade and Hashirama who can heal her and plus Naruto can heal too and she's covered with the kyuubi chakra, plus the fact she has the seal who give her similar powers to Tsunade.

 

I stick with my belief, the only reasonable way to redeem Obito is Obi/Rin  parallel happening but i doubt it will happen because it would make NS canon.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 10 October 2013 - 11:58 PM.

[rocci]

NS will not canon in this arc, but at least we got the confirmation of where the pairing heading.

Oh and if :
Hinata to naruto is his nindo reminder(cheerleader?)
Sasuke to sakura is....umm..idol?

Sakura to naruto is his dream(genjutsu) waker and his dream keeper(hokage thing).
So I predict that sakura will wake naruto from his dream for the third time(ifyouknowwhatimean).

[DattebayoXShannaro]

First, I want to say Happy Birthday, Naruto!

 

Excellent posts you guys, and great points being made all around.

 

I don’t necessarily think its bad to compare Sakura and Hinata, I just didn’t think that the particular issue on which they were being compared recently had much point to it for the reasons that I laid out in my earlier post. 

 

I think both characters can be fairly criticized for their early behavior, just as Naruto can be fairly criticized for his early behavior.  Context should be kept in mind though, as others have said here, as well as being sure to not to hand waive away issues for one and not being willing to do so for another (note that I’m speaking in general here, I’m not saying that anyone here are done so).

 

Comparing characters, especially in discussions of whether they are foils or not, can be very interesting, and I agree that Kishi’s writing lends itself to comparing Hinata and Sakura.  The fact that these girls are the hero’s options for romance increases the comparisons between them more than anything, imo, from most of the fandom.

 

While Hinata seems to come off as more sympathetic to the average reader, I think Sakura is the better character.  She’s grown a tremendous amount, both as a kunoichi and in terms of character, and has come from essentially nothing.  She is layered and complex, and is more than just her romance subplot (though admittedly, it does play a large role in her character nonetheless).  I think that Kishimoto thinks along the same lines somewhat, since he was surprised that Hinata was so popular and didn’t agree with the criticism of Sakura’s character at the summit.  On the other hand, I agree that he didn’t necessarily mean to portray Hinata negatively.

 

While I’m not fond of Hinata by any means, my ideal ending scenario for her would be as follows:

• Hinata recognizes and maturely accepts that Naruto does not return her romantic feelings, and is simply happy that he is happy
• Hinata is proud of what she has accomplished thus far in being able to tell Naruto how she felt (no regrets), being able to help him, and getting Naruto’s sincere gratitude and acknowledgment
• Hinata pulling an anime Vash (“Rem . . . I will continue to believe in you.  But from now on, I will look to my own words for guidance.”) and becomes determined to find her own beliefs in life to follow rather than blindly following Naruto’s
• Hinata resolves to and eventually becomes clan leader and institutes reforms in her clan, honoring Neji and his father’s sacrifices

 

Though given Kishi’s recent writing, I’m not incredibly confident that he will take this route with her.  I think he’s created too many characters for him to properly handle the ones he already has, much less the minor ones.  Hopefully, Kishimoto will at least do justice to Sakura’s character in finally resolving her.

 

On a different note, I wanted to touch on the issue of Naruto being a Gary-Stu.  I don’t think he is one, though admittedly he has some elements of one.  Yes, he’s definitely overpowered (though at least he’s not the most powerful), and practically everyone loves him/is amazed by him. 

 

However, he has flaws that are pointed out as such in the story (stupid, childish, idealistic, impulsive, always trying to do everything on his own/thinking only he can do certain things - which Itachi most recently called him out on, as did Sakura to an extent-, short tempered, almost giving up in the fight with Obito, etc.), and while he’s been indirectly stated as being somewhat handsome in the manga, its never been portrayed to Gary-stu levels where everyone is lusting over his amazing looks (this is more Sasuke’s area).  Nor does he have a harem after him – just Hinata, and most likely Sakura (and she’s not fan-girling over him – she is very much cognizant of his flaws and will call him out on them).  So while he has Gary-Stu aspects to him for sure, I think it could be a lot worse/blatant.

 

@ NS4L3G:  In regards to what Obito's TnJ will consist of, if it doesn't have anything to do with Naruto's love for Sakura, then I think he'll answer the issues Obito brought up in this past chapter - yes, the village treated him horribly when he was younger, but they love and acknowledge him now because he never gave up.  Yes Sasuke betrayed him, but he's helping them now and Naruto is almost certain to get through to Sasuke eventually.  Yes, loosing Jiraiya caused him to feel hatred, but he was stronger than it and spared Nagato's life, which not only brought him more inner peace than just killing him outright, it also resulted in many lives being restored.  Where there's hatred and despair, there's also eventual joy and happiness if you allow yourself to be open to it.  Or something along those lines, lol.  

 

Well, Naruto didn't have all that love and respect in the beginning and I believe people forget that.  Naruto had to work very hard to get where he is today, but at the beginning was the village goofball, and looked unimpressive when he tried to act cool in the slightest.  It was even joked he could never be the main character to a shounen manga.  Really, what we are seeing now is the congrssion of all his hardwork and actions, truly becoming somwone that is necessary to the world as Gaara said in the latest chapter.  Of course as you said, he still shows his flaws for humor effect mostly.

 

Bolded:  That should definitely be in the manga though rephrased for dramatic effect.  I could see Naruto saying something like that.

 

 

Sooo what are you guys going to do when our OTP becomes Canon? <3

 

You mean "if".

[TouKen4Life3g]

Oh, I don't doubt that Sakura's character will receive closure (as you said, she's a main character, so it's hard to even conceive that he wouldn't finish her off in some manner) - what I have some concerns about is whether he will give her a satisfactory resolution.  It's certainly a subjective issue to some degree, but I imagine most everyone outside of SS fans would agree that a SS ending, or even one with Sakura still loving Sasuke would not be a very satisfactory resolution to her character, for example.  For a canon example, Sakura's conclusion at the end of the summit arc wasn't very satisfying for many people either ("I can't do anything.  The only thing I can do now is believe in them.").  It seemed as though she were sidelining herself, which felt very weak for someone who had been very determined to protect/save her teammates up until that point.  So I was very glad that that wasn't the end of it, and she reasserted herself at the end of 631.

 

I hope at the very least, Kishimoto confirms that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade, and Sakura gets over her romantic love for Sasuke, realizing that she deserves better.  I would, of course, prefer a confirmation that she is romantically in love with Naruto as well, but I don't consider that essential to a satisfactory resolution for Sakura's character.

 

But moments like 632, 635, and this past chapter give me some hope that we'll see the two things I want most for her on some level.

 

 

At the bolded:  That's a really interesting connection to consider.  Perhaps that's why he brought up Sasuke's betrayal - perhaps Obito is connecting Sasuke's betrayal of Naruto's trust in him to the way he considers Kakashi betrayed his trust in him by "killing" Rin.

 

I completely agree about the need for Naruto to fully understand the entire story of Obito in order to TnJ him properly - Obito cannot get the answer from Naruto he is looking for until then, and Naruto will not be able to emotionally reach him until that point either.

 

 

It's hard not to imagine Naruto's love for Sakura coming into play somehow, since Kishi showed us more than was necessary of his love for Rin and how similar it was to Naruto's love for Sakura (especially the scene with Minato asking Obito if he liked Rin).  I mean, did we really need to know these details?  The entire silent chapter was pretty much just about Obito's feelings and relationship with Rin.  We already knew he loved her from the Kakashi Gaiden, so if all Kishi wanted to do was let us know why he freaked out so much over death, it wouldn't have taken an entire chapter to do so, no?  Much less make so many similarities with Naruto's love for Sakura.

 

It all seems very pointless if it isn't going to go anywhere.

Well to be fair, Sakura only mentioned that the Sasuke's situation will be handled only by Naruto because everyone, including her, has no other decisions but kill him. That and don't have the connection with Sasuke. Naruto is the only one in the opposing side (to Sasuke) that can connects him. That said well I did get worried if she was going to be sidelined in general, rather when that time comes, but luckily, it will only be that case while still supports him all the way to the end. So that's reassuring. Plus, she still gets to do more stuff, rather watch and/or do an individual work.

 

I do believe that time will come soon about surpassing Tsunade, so it's getting there in a sense. As for her overcoming her feelings for Sasuke, well that is building it up, so either the answer is here or in the next phase/arc, which is most likely. As for her and Naruto, the main problem is the buildup has been made, so ignoring this would hurt the purpose of it. It's not very needed IF it didn't get that sense of buildup, but it is now. Other anime/manga could get away with it if they don't continue to emphasize the romance from the character's side of view. Honestly, that Yamato's comment actually left a seed that is more impossible to burn down than the God Tree. So now, it must be answered. I mean we have teases yet we can still leave them be, but what I mentioned is what really made this hard to pass up.

 

Exactly my point on the parallels. People would say, "You want the parallel to confirm to feed your NS ego." Actually, we are good enough with everything, even now, but the real point is that when something like this is addressed heavily, it must have a point on the amount of details we have. Is there a point to this? Is it for the sake of the plot? We don't know until the moment finally arrives and if it doesn't, then it's rather pointless. Yes, we understand Obito, but again, you got to address the purpose behind it. If it's in this volume, do it because well we got Sakura rolling with her screentime. Funny how Obito is distracted not to see Sakura being a medic, but maybe it's coincidence. Maybe.

 

NS will not canon in this arc, but at least we got the confirmation of where the pairing heading.

Oh and if :
Hinata to naruto is his nindo reminder(cheerleader?)
Sasuke to sakura is....umm..idol?

Sakura to naruto is his dream(genjutsu) waker and his dream keeper(hokage thing).
So I predict that sakura will wake naruto from his dream for the third time(ifyouknowwhatimean).

I do agree with you about the first line 100%. Again, all pairings are on the table, even if Kishi doesn't truly care that much. The point is if NS get the last laugh, why continue the debate.

[Hiraishin]

wasn't it confirmed that he was going to kill off Neji at the end of part one, but then kept him alive due to fan popularity?

whoa, what? o__o I never heard this. Source?

 

I stick with my belief, the only reasonable way to redeem Obito is Obi/Rin  parallel happening but i doubt it will happen because it would make NS canon.

I agree with you about the redemption through ObiRin parallel thing, but what do you mean by 'canon' in this instance? That it would be like, beyond obvious that NS is endgame or that Sakura will have confirmed her feelings at the time of the ObiRin parallel confirmation? Cause I'm definitely with you on the former, but I think it's perfectly possible to make the ObiRin parallel without making NS technically canon.

[redragon88]

What's the general opinion on how Kishi has handled Sakura's feelings for Sasuke?

 

I know Kishi will make Sakura get over Sasuke before the end, otherwise her character arc would end in failure, but I sometimes worry about how well he'll make the execution.

[TouKen4Life3g]

What's the general opinion on how Kishi has handled Sakura's feelings for Sasuke?

 

I know Kishi will make Sakura get over Sasuke before the end, otherwise her character arc would end in failure, but I sometimes worry about how well he'll make the execution.

Well so far, it's going well, but the climax of it is something to be handled really careful and yes, it's not easy. Well, we can only hope for the best.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

I don't think Sakura has to die to prove it (I wouldn't want her to either, even with a revival - death doesn't need to be anymore cheapened than it already has been, imo), but I do think Naruto should at least think she is dead, so that he can experience similar emotions as Obito did.

 

Recall that Naruto couldn't understand Sasuke fully until he also experienced the loss of someone dear to him and felt the same desire for revenge himself.

 

I think the same thing needs to happen here as well - Naruto needs to experience the pain of thinking Sakura is dead in order for him to really understand Obito's pain and successfully change his mindset.

 

Whether that will actually happen or not, I can't say, but I do think its the most logical in terms of what we've seen thus far. 

 

 I'm curious though, how would you see it going down with Sakura's involvement?

 

Sakura death is an option, I'm not shutting it out. Especially considering Obito has the Rinne Tensei (No one can tell me that was not there for nothing ... even if it's not for Sakura). However, I don't think it's necessary for a complete ObiRin parallel. It could be done, but it'd be a little too much. We already got his Neji breakdown, didn't we? I don't mind a resurrection though, believe me I've seen worse stories that abused this tactic to the point every death has no sentimental meaning. *cough* Dragonball Z *cough*

 

I've envisioned a lot of scenarios for a while now, but I'm particularly favoring one. As all of us know, Sakura's been working nonstop to heal the wounded. Since the alliance arrived, she spent some time fighting with her new seal and now she's summoning 1/10 of Katsuyu with Tsunade. Unlike Tsunade or Naruto who have large chakra reserves/stamina to keep on going, Sakura doesn't have this advantage. In comparison to them, her chakra's rather small and that means she tires quicker. That means she'll be weakened some point soon due to her overexertion, making her an easy target. Due to her weakened state, she'll get attacked either by the Juubi (more likely) or Madara (less likely). I doubt Obito will be the one to land the blow, since he's busy talk no jutsuing Naruto (lol ironic).  Sakura getting injured will probably be accidental, since none of their enemies have no real reason for her to specifically targeted. If it was because she was medic, Tsunade would be the prime option before her.

 

Personally, I picture Sakura getting fatally stabbed (doesn't have to be stabbed ... but that's just what I picture in my head lol), causing Naruto to believe she's dead and lead to Obito's redemption after his rising above it and saying something like "I'm not giving up because ... Sakura-chan wouldn't want me too!" If Obito monologues his own experience with Rin when he was younger, I can see Naruto bringing up Rin and saying she wouldn't of wanted him to become a monster. And in doing so, making the ObiRin/NaruSaku connection. This and only this would  make Obito realize his weak will and finally find it in him to believe again.

 

As for Sakura, after some heart-stopping drama and angst, confirms she is alive because of her new seal. Basically, it's like when Tsunade got stabbed, but survived because she could heal herself with Byakugou. So not only do we find a way for Obito to be redeemed, we see Sakura's newfound resilience because of her new jutsu.   However, because Sakura is weakened and not quite used to her new abilities, I can see her struggling to recover for a bit. Making it a lot more dramatic than what happened to Tsunade.

 

Sakura will obviously be a plot device in this scenario if Kishi does this option, similar to Hinata's near-death and confession. That does slightly bother me, but I still find it the most logical and best option we have. At least, in contrast to Hinata's experience, Sakura will get back up again and not be painted as a "damsel in distress" like she was in the Kage Summit.  Better already, right?

 

@Darkest: While I agree that NaruSaku being end game will be painfully obvious to probably everyone if the NS/OR connection is confirmed, I don't think that necessarily means it'll be canon. Sure, the ambiguity's left the building, but Naruto and Sakura wouldn't be in a relationship still. They have unresolved issues that would not be solved with just one Sakura near-death scene. I'm sure it'll be a huge moment for the ship, but it's closure will be leading into the next arc, not this one.  

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 11 October 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, Obito can still attack Sakura, but first Naruto/Sasuke. It's possible that the fact that they said, "finish this with their next attack" could indicate that they could be in trouble if fails to end Obito, which can lead Obito continue to annihilate the alliance. If the tree can't kill them, why not have him going all out on them, making it twice as hard to handle the situation. So pretty much, it's up to Naruto to stop him before he just go all out on everyone. Next chapter could very well decide the fate of the situation as in will Naruto/Sasuke attack succeed, will Obito survive, will Naruto be knocked out from using the next attack, and so on. Very interesting to see what's next.