54216 replies to this topic

[morgaine4]

xxRomanceGirlxx, your post reminded me, though it's not very likely I would like to know what it was about Sakura that initially caught Naruto's eye.  Did she respond to him at some point after he pulled a prank, causing him to realize her eyes were different, thus catching his attention (leading him to express his crush in the most annoying way, resulting in Sakura reacting based on her short tempter)...?  I doubt we'll have a flashback, but it would be really interesting to find out.

[Hiraishin]

I remember hearing that Kishi's editor did the confession or helped by them. I forgot which. Anyway, to me, it's comrade because there's no follow up, rather an end that has no question left. If it was, there should databook questioning this rather than description, there should be more on this from Sakura, there should be more emotion, or rather an emotion for Sasuke, and so on.

At this point, it's not a huge deal as one would want to make it to be. I mean it's nice for comrade/team 7 but that's what it is. It's always funny to make a speech about what does it really mean, only the fans to strike back. I'm afraid to speak up on Hinata's real character purpose because as long as it has love, they don't want hear otherwise. Not all of them but I can be a new enemy in tumblr, YouTube, etc.

Honestly, I don't really think this anymore. If only one of them question it or even remind themselves this in a solo moment, not a compile like Sakura before taking a stab, then I'll reconsidered. But again, I don't see no follow up, especially since Sasuke is pretty much bromance to the end.

Ah, yes! I hadn't remembered that while I was writing that post but yes, you're right. He said he had consulted with a coworker before writing the scene of Sasuke and Sakura's parting because he doesn't understand women's hearts hahaha. Yeah, what I meant by "vague" is that we don't know exactly what Sasuke was thanking her for, rather than his "thank you" was vague so he probably meant "I love you."  I'm sure some people around here have run into the argument that says that a "thank you" is pretty much "I love you" when it comes from Sasuke, cause he never says it lmaoo. But yeah, I agree with you: his thank you was just as a comrade. Nothing more.

 

Regardless, I find it sort of funny that Kishi had to consult with someone when it came to that confession... It's like it wasn't totally his work lol. He said it was an "effect of the two geezers." I bet Kishi never had to consult with anyone out of difficulty when writing NaruSaku scenes. 

 

I still find it pretty silly that he asked a middle-aged man for help though, like wth? Ha if he doesn't understand how a woman would act in a particular situation he should have asked... you know... A WOMAN. Kishi can be silly sometimes.

 

 

Oh! Well, I don't see why it can't be both 

Haha, that's probably the case, actually!

Edited by mydearbeloved, 08 October 2013 - 04:04 AM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

xxRomanceGirlxx, your post reminded me, though it's not very likely I would like to know what it was about Sakura that initially caught Naruto's eye.  Did she respond to him at some point after he pulled a prank, causing him to realize her eyes were different, thus catching his attention (leading him to express his crush in the most annoying way, resulting in Sakura reacting based on her short tempter)...?  I doubt we'll have a flashback, but it would be really interesting to find out.

 

There are a lot of possible scenarios. The most common and based on what we got so far, he just thought she was really pretty. Kind of how Sakura's crush on Sasuke started. Or ... Naruto saw her crying one day after being bullied for her forehead, but never came over because he was afraid (given the constant hate he got back then). And through that, he subconsciously decided he always wanted to make her smile instead of cry. I sort of like this one since one of the things Naruto loves most about Sakura is her smile. The problem is it's kind of eerily reminiscent of Hinata's behavior when he was suffering, though of course it's not the same. Naruto's been there for her through everything since Day 1 of Team 7. Or it could be what you said ... a prank he pulled, and she for second, liked it. It's hard to say.

 

I also don't think Sakura started disliking him until after her Ino boost. When she was a shy and bullied girl, I don't see her showing hostility towards him. I think Naruto's constant acting out in the village and in class is what developed her opinion on him since she was always a strict rule follower and Straight A student. Possibly increased more when Naruto become more open with his interest in her and always annoyed her over it. Sakura said herself he always got in the way of her love life, meaning her efforts with Sasuke.  I think somewhere between 9 and 12, she started hating him.

 

Also, this may sound weird, but I actually think Naruto on some level was glad Sakura scolded him or called him annoying. No, he never wanted her to dislike him so of course it bothered him. But I think he was slightly relieved that Sakura took the time to even insult or scold him for him, not her parents seeing him as thing. She still paid attention to him and recognized him as a person, even if it was negative. I can totally see Naruto saying this to Sakura if she started putting herself down for how she treated him when they were young since he's so good at taking a supposedly bad thing a good way. I would love to the NH fans' reaction to this talk if it ever happened, it completely demotes their argument of Sakura being unworthy of Naruto.

 

I would also very much like a flashback. We got one from MinaKushi, so I don't doubt too much that we won't get a NaruSaku version. I just don't know when it'll happen. It'll have to be a very dramatic, critical moment.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 08 October 2013 - 05:36 AM.

[morgaine4]

 

Also, this may sound weird, but I actually think Naruto on some level was glad Sakura scolded him or called him annoying. No, he never wanted her to dislike him so of course it bothered him. But I think he was slightly relieved that Sakura took the time to even insult or scold him for him, not her parents seeing him as thing. She still paid attention to him and recognized him as a person, even if it was negative. I can totally see Naruto saying this to Sakura if she started putting herself down for how she treated him when they were young since he's so good at taking a supposedly bad thing a good way. I would love to the NH fans' reaction to this talk if it ever happened, it completely demotes their argument of Sakura being unworthy of Naruto.

 

I would also very much like a flashback. We got one from MinaKushi, so I don't doubt too much that we won't get a NaruSaku version. I just don't know when it'll happen. It'll have to be a very dramatic, critical moment.

 

Absolutely, that's why my headcanon until we find out more is that the fact that she scolded him is what caught his attention in the first place.  Something had to make her stand out to him, it could have been her awesome forehead, her pink hair, but what was the reason for their established dynamic.  At the very least, they had enough of an established repertoire for Naruto to be able to sense that Sakura was about to punch him (and so early on).

[Jake]

I think the debate is whether Sasuke's "thank you" after Sakura's confession was just a polite way to reject her confession, or if he was actually thanking her for something.   The way Kishi wrote it, I'm inclined to believe that he thanked her for trying (to stop him), and/or for being a good teammate to him (cause Team 7 was pretty much like a family to him), instead of just politely rejecting her confession. Kishi made it quite vague, though.

That doesn't mean he wouldn't want to let her off easily before he knocked her out.  He did care about her back then to some extent as his teammate (didn't he refer to her as a precious person at some point), it was just a bod he could throw away easily (unlike his bond with Naruto).

I agree that Sasuke acknowledged Sakura's feelings, after all she desperately shouted them at him. But it still means no, no matter how you look at it.

 

What I'm saying is that Sasuke had acknowledged Sakura at that point, remember back in chapter one what Naruto wanted was basically for someone to acknowledge his existence, Sasuke had acknowledge Sakura's existence by that point thus resolving that part of the bench scene.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

It always amuses me when NH fans say Sakura causes Naruto the most pain. Hinata could have hurt him the most since she always stocked him. She could have reached out and been their for him, but no. She hid in the shadows and admired him from a distance. SHE caused more pain to Naruto than Sakura has so far.

 

I think it's a bit unfair to say Hinata caused him more pain, he's certainly not thought of it that way. The only thing Hinata is guilty of is inaction as a result of extreme shyness and I can fully relate to that, since I too struggled with being terribly shy to the point that I had trouble interacting with others. I have even been in the situation where I saw someone hurting and was unable to come out of myself enough to help them. It's an awful feeling.

[sushi.]

It always amuses me when NH fans say Sakura causes Naruto the most pain. Hinata could have hurt him the most since she always stocked him. She could have reached out and been their for him, but no. She hid in the shadows and admired him from a distance. SHE caused more pain to Naruto than Sakura has so far.

Hinata didn't cause his pain, but she ignored it.

 

When someone is bullied, the bystanders are the worst kind. Because they know that this is wrong, they have a moral compass unlike the bullies, yet they do nothing to stop it. Hinata is a bystander.

 

Yes, she stood by because her she had self esteem issues, but this is no excuse, and Naruto's issues were much worse. When she thinks back on Naruto's past, she thinks of how she used his strong spirit to encourage herself. She never once thought of Naruto's suffering, ever.

 

That is why Hinata is much worse than Sakura in this aspect, Sakura was oblivious of this until chapter 3. She didn't even know of the Kyuubi, none of the rookies did. Sakura's dislike for Naruto was caused by his blatant and intrusive behaviour.

[Paptala]

I don't really see the point in debating which girl caused him more pain to be honest.  Neither of them hurt him intentionally, nor would they, both have helped him in their own ways even if in differing amounts, and Sasuke + villains caused him much more pain than either of them.

 

I don't hate Hinata for her inaction - what bothers me is her fans placing her on a pedastal, claiming she always loved Naruto so much and was always there for him when she wasn't.  Both girls have made mistakes with Naruto, just as he had made mistakes with them.

[sushi.]

I don't really see the point in debating which girl caused him more pain to be honest.  Neither of them hurt him intentionally, nor would they, both have helped him in their own ways even if in differing amounts, and Sasuke + villains caused him much more pain than either of them.

 

I don't hate Hinata for her inaction - what bothers me is her fans placing her on a pedastal, claiming she always loved Naruto so much and was always there for him when she wasn't.  Both girls have made mistakes with Naruto, just as he had made mistakes with them.

You're actually very right about that. We shouldn't put them up against eachother. It's just easy to forget.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

I don't really see the point in debating which girl caused him more pain to be honest.  Neither of them hurt him intentionally, nor would they, both have helped him in their own ways even if in differing amounts, and Sasuke + villains caused him much more pain than either of them.

 

I don't hate Hinata for her inaction - what bothers me is her fans placing her on a pedastal, claiming she always loved Naruto so much and was always there for him when she wasn't.  Both girls have made mistakes with Naruto, just as he had made mistakes with them.

 

Yeah, trying to turn the blame around on Hinata to try to make Sakura look better just comes across as hypocrisy to me. Neither ever caused him intentional harm and they were both just children then. They can't be expected to see the better picture, so to speak, to understand how their actions or lack of action, can affect another, I know it's not something I actively considered when I was twelve.

[Question22]

The hinata fanboys and fangirl say that she is stronger than Sakura that she would beat her with her byakugan 

[Hanabi]

The hinata fanboys and fangirl say that she is stronger than Sakura that she would beat her with her byakugan 

do the routine.

 

ignore.

[Question22]

do the routine.

 

ignore.

 

aye , agree

[TouKen4Life3g]

The hinata fanboys and fangirl say that she is stronger than Sakura that she would beat her with her byakugan 

Yeah no.

Anyway, seems like TnJ is on the way. Exactly what content would you provide in that TnJ when the time comes?

[Psychox]

^You're right that the bench scene served for two purposes. The first was to develop Naruto's feelings for Sakura, the second was to develop Sakura's feelings for Sasuke - all in all it established the love triangle.

 

The bench scene is not done yet because Sakura doesn't know the truth about it. I want Naruto to clear up the misunderstanding.

 

I disagree however that the bench scene was Naruto's transition from crush to love. That was the first time he ever had a real conversation with her, so that much is illogical. He began to love her sometime after they were put on the same team, but I think it's clear as a day he loved her as early as the PoaL.

 

Yup, i think it progressed with the story flow in part 1 and escalated when he fought with Gaara to save her and Sasuke, but we all know that he gave his all because of Sakura . I think then his love grew quite a bit, but when he made the PoaL it elevated his feelings on a whole new stage. I also think that it served two purposes .
 

 

If he says that Filler episodes are canon i wish he could explain me how Naruto and Lee are beaten by a ninja ostrich.

Kishi could just summon that ninja ostrich again to fight against the Juubi.

 

How Hinata used 64 palms on fillers but only now she was able to use

 

Well.. that ostrich man was OP he defeated Kotetsu and the other guy(forgot his name)....Bet he will solo Madara
 

 

 

Then why did Sasuke say thank you to Sakura after her confession?

 

Some say its a deep sign of love,others rejection and a motion of acknowledgment.
 

 

 



 

Okay, let's say I'll buy into this argument and say fillers count. Even if all of those NH "moments"/Hinata actually involving herself into Naruto's life (Part 1 Beetle arc), it doesn't change the fact that NaruHina is still one-sided.  After her confession, after Sakura's confession, Naruto still openly declared he was in love with Sakura. Episode 235, remember? So if all of that counts, then Naruto's love confession must count too.

 

Seriously, this is ridiculous. Fillers do not, in anyway whatsoever, count. Not even NS 235. Kishimoto allowed them to turn his manga into an anime, but there's nothing more than that. I heard somewhere he doesn't even watch the anime.  And honestly, I'm getting really tired of fans still leaping at the chance to say otherwise. It's unbecoming for serious debater IMO.

 

As for the last bit, I'm not even going to try on that one. Hinata's life has revolved entirely around Naruto and what she wants for him, while Sakura's revolved around becoming more useful, Team 7, and particularly finding a way to spare Naruto's feelings or pressure. From that standpoint, while Naruto is deeply tied into both their core characters, at least Sakura sets other goals in her life besides "what she wants from Naruto" or "what she wants from Sasuke." She's not nearly as satellite-esque as Hinata so she has more layers and dimension. That, logically, makes her a better developed character.   

 

I've heard somewhere that NS will have the Anime ,but NH will be canon in the manga....

 

[DattebayoXShannaro]

The hinata fanboys and fangirl say that she is stronger than Sakura that she would beat her with her byakugan 

 

But one thing Sakura still has for certain is future growth.

 

 

Yeah no.

Anyway, seems like TnJ is on the way. Exactly what content would you provide in that TnJ when the time comes?

 

If Rin will be mentioned (and she will), Naruto could mention Sakura, and tell Obito about his love for her.  Basically, he could say the same as what he told that girl in the fiance filler.  How Naruto's feelings were like Obito's in the beginning could show some impact.

Edited by DattebayoXShannaro, 08 October 2013 - 06:20 PM.

[morgaine4]

I don't really see the point in debating which girl caused him more pain to be honest.  Neither of them hurt him intentionally, nor would they, both have helped him in their own ways even if in differing amounts, and Sasuke + villains caused him much more pain than either of them.

 

I don't hate Hinata for her inaction - what bothers me is her fans placing her on a pedastal, claiming she always loved Naruto so much and was always there for him when she wasn't.  Both girls have made mistakes with Naruto, just as he had made mistakes with them.

 

This is a really good point, and I agree, except that personally I happen dislike Hinata on her own merits.  I've disliked her for far longer than I've liked NS, for far longer I've participated online (though the over-hype resulted in my thinking about her more than I did before).  If I compare her to Sakura, or Ino, it's not to pit her against them, but to illustrate what sort of characters I prefer, and why.  But I agree, it's important not to focus on Hinata vs. Sakura.

[Inferno180]

I don't really see the point in debating which girl caused him more pain to be honest.  Neither of them hurt him intentionally, nor would they, both have helped him in their own ways even if in differing amounts, and Sasuke + villains caused him much more pain than either of them.

 

I don't hate Hinata for her inaction - what bothers me is her fans placing her on a pedastal, claiming she always loved Naruto so much and was always there for him when she wasn't.  Both girls have made mistakes with Naruto, just as he had made mistakes with them.

 

Talk about pedestal stuff, even with Sakura and tsunade doing a collaborative technique for the first time (well first time in the manga) people still just again go to resort by glossing over. No suprise Forneverworld and others just cannot go one whole time that whenever Sakura shows up, they need to mention Hinata and how they wish she was doing something.

 

Seriously, at this point, Sakura working with tsunade, the 2 best medic ninjas in the world just made a safety zone so everyone had a better chance to face the tree, having more people means a better chance of success despite them being fodder ninja. If anyone has become useless at this point, seriously its fallen on Hinata. If anything Sakura has the strength and healing along with tsunade to collaborate now, basically to double the output she couldn't do alone. I don't mind Hinata, but seriously the pedestal needs to vanish now. I mean the Hyuga can stare and slap the tree all they want, but how can supressing technique actually work on the very thing that was the originator of all chakra? If anything visual is needed, Naruto has Sasuke to assist him, even Kurama and his own sage mode.

 

Seriously just think of this, we got another moment of Naruto on the edge, wounded and battered like 3-4 chapters ago. He had a big moment to stand up again with a long speech with conveying his feelings. This time it was simple and short, his own shinobi way then light up his power with Sasuke. Naruto and Sasuke are fine locked in battle with Obito, they basically know what to do. The rest are focusing on taking out the tree, with Hiruzen fighting, Minato as a conduit so Tobirama can use the flying thunder god to move people as needed, and Hashirama remains facing Madara while a clone is helping against the tree.

 

Likewise remember, this new technique from Katsuyu becoming a magic puddle of healing slug juice may still allow Sakura and tsunade to fight, no idea if this is something they need to maintain with her or if Katsuyu can hold it on her own. Hey the slug is almost an entity, yet still one being, its like legion the one who is many, but very nice and has a sole personality. She was able to divide up on her own, i think she can use the puddle move like Sugestsu no problem.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

I don't dislike Hinata. I even sympathize with her sometimes. I'm just known to have a critical viewpoint of her character, partly because of her overblown fanbase who exaggerate her good traits/actions and either excuse/ignore her bad traits and acts. I've never in my life hated Hinata, I like her sweet and gentle personality. What prevents from being a fan of her is that she's so underdeveloped and static as an overall character. Since I'm the type of person who likes layers and depth in a character, Hinata either mildly bores or disappoints me. I just want Kishimoto to work on her more, that's all. Have her wake up one day and realize the world doesn't revolve around Naruto. She just needs to mature and accept responsibility for things that actually matter (ex. Her heiress leader role in the future), not continue chasing after a boy the rest of her life. It's like Part I Sakura, seriously. I even say that if Kishimoto had given her more layers and maturity at this point without changing her core personality (quiet, gentle), she would be one of my favorite characters. That's why I'm just compelled to write a fanfiction showcasing this, and so I could for a little while pretend Hinata actually changed.

 

I also don't enjoy blaming Hinata for doing nothing when Naruto was suffering because I do understand she was shy. Hell, I'm kind of shy myself ever since I was younger. Though I understand it, I don't excuse it. Hinata could've saved Naruto the suffering he went through if she reached out to be his friend. Not only that but if she did, her likelihood of being with Naruto would increase based on that alone. Yet she did not, and that is Hinata's fault by itself. I only ever make an issue out of this when I see fans excuse everything by saying "She loved him from the beginning so much, Sakura hated him". Yeah, okay. Did she do anything with it? Nope. Sakura started getting the advantage not only when she started to care for him as well, but when she was always by his side literally.  Not metaphorically like Hinata.

 

As long as fans remember this, I'd just drop the topic. But the thing is, NaruHina/Hinata fans/Sakura haters never do.

[morgaine4]

I understand that Hinata is shy, and perhaps if certain individuals weren't so forceful in giving her credit where it isn't due it wouldn't bother me so much, but I can't say that Hinata's bystanding wouldn't bother me at all.  For a while I did let it go, but then I thought about it, I don't blame Hinata for interfering with the bullies while the bullying was going on, but it does bother me that she didn't reach out to Naruto, and it does bother me that she didn't reach out to an adult around her.  Maybe the adults around her told her not to interact with him, but that doesn't mean that she couldn't voice "he's being hurt, will you help him" to an adult who was assigned to her to guard her and cater to her needs.  I give her some leeway because of her extreme shyness, but just some.  I also think it's important that Kishi specifically introduced a character who wasn't a bystander.  Yes her personality was different, and one might argue that what Sakura faced was nothing compared to Naruto (though I don't agree with that sort of debate, trauma is trauma is trauma, and different people can take different levels of trauma and all that), but I do think it's significant that Kishi thought to introduce someone who was the opposite of Hinata in this way, that that and the fact that had Hinata done something (had she actually understood what Naruto was going through, that loneliness was harder for him than being underestimated) Hinata would probably be his number one precious person, was done to illustrate to some small degree that bystanding isn't OK/acceptable.

 

Also, I no longer have the impression that she's actually under-developed.  I did think so when we first met her again, and I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get more out of her, but now not so much.  I think a lot of the negative aspects regarding Hinata are intentional.  She knew Naruto was being bullied, but did nothing and but we have a character who did something, she's distracted by Naruto so much so that it's commented upon (by Sakura), and of course in the last chapter we have Hinata not only acting a bit petulantly but to such a degree that she stands out --all the other characters are rejoicing, but she's unhappy, she's not thinking about the fact that Shikamaru's been saved.  I guess it could be a coincidence, but then why take the time to make her seem sad, make her stand out (just a few examples).  Also, while I understand why many don't want to start a Sakura vs Hinata debate (and I do agree with that to a large extent), I can't help but notice that in some ways Hinata is set up as a foil to Sakura.  Sakura is the normal girl with an irrelevant clan/family while Hinata is from a major clan, Sakura has neither a Kekkei Genkai nor any known secret clan techniques, Hinata has a Kekkei Genkai and the secret clan techniques and abilities that come with it (and the clan is so secretive and protective of their techniques that they place a seal on less important clan members), Sakura is the hero's love interest, the hero is Hinata's love interest, Sakura is at first oblivious to Naruto's pain but becomes the person who seems to understand him the most (yes, even more than Sasuke who has an instinctive understand of Naruto to some degree, but doesn't understand him yet --it's why he asks why back during the Team 7 reunion), Hinata's the first of the R9/K11 to notice Naruto's suffering but has a complete misunderstanding of what the actual source of his suffering was/is, Sakura is the person inspired by Naruto to actively work to find her inner strength (demonstrated in the most unsubtle manner during her battle with Ino), while Hinata is the person most inspired by Naruto's nindo but who is still unable to use it to play to her strengths and thus more often than not tends to fall short, and of course most recently Sakura's goal has been to get everyone (not just herself) to be of some use to Naruto, while Hinata has been focused on reaching Naruto (and yes helping...I'm not trying to pain Hinata as the evil of all evils, she certainly not evil at all, in any way) Naruto so that she can gain some recognition from him (get something from him).  Maybe I'm reading into it too much, maybe I'm giving Kishi too much credit, but it does seem particularly methodical to me.  I don't quite understand what Kishi's purpose is, I think at some point he'll let her realize that she has her own inner strength and that she'll be inspired to focus on her clan etc etc, but I do think his writing lends itself to the comparison between Sakura and Hinata, and that Hinata isn't underdeveloped, but a character who has some sort of self-inflicted co-dependency with a dose of development-limiting tunnel vision (when it comes to Naruto, but mainly in terms of her own self-assessment).