31714 replies to this topic

[ichigo500]

Point taken it all about the moneys  .

 

Everything that Kikitten's spouts from his mouth now its pure comedy  kitten of the worst kind  its both hilarious and disgusting at the same time not many people can do that  gonna give him some credit here   .

At least, now we know for sure that he's good at something : telling stupid things and gain a lot of money by doing so ! 

[FireFox]

 

Well said with everything, and indeed he is a fool.

 

I wrote years ago (2009 if I had to guess) about what I thought Kishimoto was doing with Sakura. Basically my point was that she started as a selfish, self centered little girl who loved a horrible person for their outside beauty. Which isn't difficult to understand, I mean she is a twelve year old at first so her being shallow then wouldn't be a complete negative. People that age are often concerned with foolish things.

 

At the time I thought this story would be about basically children accepting the realities of adulthood. For Sakura that meant giving up on her child like feelings towards people, and growing into a woman in her own right. Radical idea right? I thought we'd see her grow, learn some self respect, reflect on how her life has turned out the way it has, and eventually when it came to romance to learn the importance of true loves bonds with the person who would go from being her best friend to her lover, namely Naruto.

 

Hinata on the other hand, if she had to exist (remember I've never liked her character because I've seen her as always being the worst type of character the "purely innocent and rich fan girl who selfishly will get whatever she wants because it is her destiny"), she should have become a character who also grew up. For her this would have meant her taking control of her clan, breaking them from the evil of their centuries old indoctrinations, and freeing them up for the culture that has them ENSLAVE half of their fellow family. I assumed that she would become head of her clan, and eventually would learn how to create her families special eye powers, without it relying on centuries of continued inbreeding. On the way she would surrender her obsession with Naruto (who she loved only as a symbol of the free will she longed to had) and instead would take up her rightful role as the head of her clan, which eventually would likely have her become an actually human being instead of a stereotypical character (The shy "Princess") and therefor would actually develop a personality beyond an obsession and character history.

 

Naruto should have simply stayed as what he was. A character who continued to fight for the right of mankind to choose what they want to be, with no reverence towards the governmental structure that oppressed him and everyone else. As an orphan with the demon in his soul, he was a natural underdog, who's very character screamed at the top of his lungs that he had a RIGHT to his life and liberty. Naruto constantly chooses to try to be the best person he can be! Originally he wasn't from an "important" family, nor was he some ancient reincarnated perfect Prince who everyone loved. Naruto was a self made man, who started from the lowest of the low to rise to the highest of the high of the social hierarchy. A man who's very story should have been about how every person has a right to their life, in order to dream the dreams they want to, and to put action into reaching those goals. Which was his story until the end.

 

Finally for this point the is Sasuke. Oh precocious precious Sasuke, should have first and foremost been a warning. A warning about the very destructive nature about revenge. As the story continued his sanity, morals, and health should have continued to decline steadily as he slipped further and further into the madness of being an "avenger". A man who doesn't care about the lives of others, and instead wants to bend them to HIS will so HE can get what is right by force HIS. He was the perfect opposite of Naruto once. He was his classes "chosen one" (beloved by his elders, loved by the women around his age, and the envy of the men his age), who came from the "chosen people" (the "legendary" Uchiha) who would redeem the clan and bring it back to greatness. The very nature of being that should have corrupted him, which should have ultimately lead to the conclusion for all to see that the evil the he became wasn't his destiny... but was a choice he made because of his own selfish desires. His arc should have been a warning against vice, and how "might makes right" leads all of mankind to death and ruin, indeed it sucks the very soul of humanity out of a person, turning them into nothing more then a ravenous beast who can't see beyond their own twisted view of their moral code. As I said the entire time Sasuke should have lost everything. If not his life he should at least in the end lost his eyes, the very thing that mattered so much to him. The symbolic connection of what made him such a horrible person, his Uchiha bloodline and stupid pride. If he was destined to live in the end because of market forces, he should have been a broken man who was learning the true lesson of humbleness. His eyes gone, his standing as the "chosen one" of the village stripped form him because of his actions, and his survival happening simply because of the one bond he never lost the one he had with Naruto. He should have been forced to his knees because of the righteousness of Naruto's cause and the weakness of his own. Which of course didn't happen.

 

So what did we get?

 

We got a Sakura who regressed back to being the selfish 12 year old she was. He personality and character development up until then was stripped from her. Once again she became a crying burden placed on her team who "couldn't do anything right" unlike the men around her who had to risk their lives to protect her (of course the glaring one who didn't was Sasuke who had no problem with her dying since she was nothing more then dead weight to him). Her "great" moment and the climax of her character arc comes from her admitting that she is useless, and the she loves Sasuke because.... well she always has since a young child and she wasn't no "dime store ho" she wasn't going to change her mind now. What was she some kind of slut? A woman being able to change her mind? That's stupid talk. Women are things for the sexual glorification of the men who own them, and Sakura is Sasuke's property because she gave him her heart when she was 6. Sakura's humanity was stripped form her, and even after the "love of her life" tortures her and makes her believe that she has just been murdered by HIM PUNCHING HER THREW THE F@CKING HEART!!!! it ends with her begging him to give her the kitten, well her lip quivers and she looks at the ground. She is rewarded for her lack of humanity, and for her desire to be submissive to her superior male counterpart by having her forehead flicked.... the same way said superior male had his forehead flicked when he was standing in front of his better... his "sainted" brother. That's a good b*tch Sakura, if you keep on this path Sasuke may give you that pity kitten you dream about. Don't forget to always think the worst about yourself though, and admit that you are nothing compared to him. Only threw the submission of your humanity can you have any value Sakura. Keep it up girl you'll get that kitten at least once before Sasuke abandons you again to raise your child alone well he saves a cat in a tree three nations away from his family.

 

Then there is Hinata. Hinata the beloved submissive Princess is also rewarded, for her obsession with getting the kitten at the price of any other goal. She shows the greatness of her character by continuing to show all she wants is the kitten from Naruto. Even after her baby sister is kidnapped, she is still compelled to work on her knitting skills cause hell Naruto may love her if she is good enough at making a scarf. Her family obligations aren't really her problem... but she maybe able to use them in order to get Naruto to notice her more. Wait does Naruto have another scarf? OH POOR PRINCESS HINATA!!! IT LIKELY MEANS NARUTO ISN'T A VESTAL VIRGIN ANYMORE! HE GAVE INTO HIS URGES HAD SEX WITH ANOTHER GIRL AND TOOK UP HER SCARF INSTEAD OF THE PRINCESS!! What does the Princess do now? Why sit and cry of course! She's a woman after all, if she isn't the first to have sex with Naruto then what's the point? She isn't going to accept sloppy seconds, because she doesn't actually love Naruto, just what Naruto represents. Now she will have to accept old maid status, the greatest dishonor for any woman. The Clan will soon be lead by some branch family if the state doesn't get around to saving her sister, and Hinata is to good to have sex with anyone else. She ain't no dime store ho. ........But wait! Naruto's scarf is from his Mother!!!! Oh Hinata you've allowed the fact that you weren't born with a pair of balls to make a fool of yourself again! Naruto's still a virgin, so his kitten is worthy of your greatness! Make him earn it though this time and keep up the knitting! You go girl!

 

Naruto somehow ends up worst then both Sakura and Hinata. The boy who fought for free will, and the natural rights of even the weakest members of society, ends up not only becoming the son of the 4th Hokage, but it turns out he is the child of destiny...... Not only that but he is the reincarnated Prince Valiant of this universe..... he was destined to become the person he is.... he didn't earn it... it was dictated by "fate".... all his actions before and speeches.... well they are meaningless.... even his personality as the person who will never give up and never stop caring about people is something he has simply because that's how his Prince Valiant self used to be.... that's right it's not his own life story that caused his view points! Oh no, nothing so peasant like that, no not for the child of destiny. Naruto's goodness actually comes from the fact that he is the once and future king of the world. This time though he is also going to save the soul of his ancient and everlasting brother who just happens to be Sasuke..... oh he is also really really stupid. Love? Isn't that the feeling you get from eating ramen noodles? Not stupid enough though it seems, since he used Sakura in order to one up his soul brother by trying to have sex with and defile the property Sasuke owns. Luckily said property, Sakura herself, calls him out on this, and Naruto admits that he was just playing with her emotions hoping that it would piss off her owner.

 

Then we get to precious Sasuke who got the way his is threw no fault of his own! No not precious Sasuke! OH NO! You see Sasuke is cursed twice over! First he is the reincarnation of Prince Gloomy. All his anti social tendencies and questionable moral calls, the fact that he is an outright murder and fascist terrorist.... it's all because he is destined to be a depressive selfish asshat. Second he is cursed to be a member of the Uchiha clan. What does that mean? Does it mean that he is cursed to come from a war like people who put their own desire for political power above their fellow human beings, even above their own family members? Oh no nothing of the kind! You see the Uchiha just love people to much... that's right they are trying to kill people because of love! Why did they try to take over the leaf? Why because of love! Which explains the way he treats Sakura the way he does! He beats her and tried to murder her multiple times because of love! Why does he torture her? Oh it must be love! Letting her fall to her death into a bit of lava? Love! Abandoning her after one pity kitten? Love! Which is why he also tries to become a fascist dictator, he loves the world that much that he will do for them what he knows is best. Sadly when he was trying to use his strength to force his will on others his soul brother "Prince Naruto Valiant" won't relent unless he plays nice.... and Prince Gloomy just isn't able to outright kill Prince Valiant so yeah he'll stop.... so long as Prince Valiant keeps loving Prince Gloomy..... who can spend the rest of his life wandering the world at least. His household? The woman he owns will fulfill her duty to him and follow threw with his will in his absence. It's not like she has any desires that have nothing to do with him, she knows her role and she shuts her mouth around him.

 

kitten you Kishimoto. kitten you.

 

 

 

At least, now we know for sure that he's good at something : telling stupid things and gain a lot of money by doing so ! 

That's Legit !!!  .

[TouKen4Life3g]

Finally some new information regarding the box office has appeared. It appears like TL has managed to garner $179,370 on its opening night in the US. Australia earned $134,543, $29,030 in New Zealand, and $329,622 in South Korea during their respective openings. Altogether, "The Last" has managed to earn $672,565 in the initial week. This is not including Indonesia, The Philippines, Malaysia, or Mexico. 
 
(http://www.boxoffice...=lastnaruto.htm)
 
 

Ah, they finally updated. Thanks. That said one thing you got it wrong. South Korea was released on Feb 26. This is the total so far, not their first day. To be honest, I wasn't aware of South Korea though it should be expected since they want money and want everyone from the world as much as possible. That said I knew about South Korea for a while in terms of box office. Yesterday only made $700. They're different from us since it does release more than 100 screens. Right now, well they might be out.

Speaking of out, this is the last week for US screening and the only one that will continue is NY. There are very few in the much later on for whatever reason, but it's only like 2-3. One thing for sure is that there are places that those guys won't return.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Kishi gives good names to bad writers, that's how bad he is.

 

The sad thing about it is that he opened the flood gate for all of them. Kishi explored uncharted territories, which a story can progress without logic.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
The sad thing about it is that he opened the flood gate for all of them. Kishi explored uncharted territories, which a story can progress without logic.

Once Yahagi left, storytelling dropped tenfold. I guess that's what happens when you lose a fanfic writer.

[Niky]

What a kittening fraud I don't even know why they even call him an mangaka  when he just openly kittening admitted that he had no clue WTH he was doing 90 % of the time   What kind of a freaking story it is  when  its written by your editors , its based on popularity and the manga is adapted to correspond with the anime's fillers   which basically makes the whole story one giant piece of filler kitten  and there is no purpose on telling this story at all   .

 

I was reading Osamu Tesuka stories (to those of you who don't know him, he is called the 'God of manga' in Japan) and I can say with confidence: Kishimoto is not a mangaka or, even less, an artist... He is a illustrator or, better yet, an employed person with jaded quality.

 

There is no way of knowing it until he says, but I think Kishi sold out no early than RTN. If that's true, I wonder how much he regretted when he saw the positives of RTN viewers and his father said that he loves the family bonds in that movie that he sold out. Once you sign that contract, it's all over and there's no going back to it until the contract expires.

 

I think so too... Just before the RTN release the manga final was settled!

 

@TILLER

Soooo coooool!!!

Edited by Niky, 13 March 2015 - 11:58 AM.

[FireFox]

 

I was reading Osamu Tesuka stories (to those of you who don't know him, he is called the 'God of manga' in Japan) and I can say with confidence: Kishimoto is not a mangaka or, even less, an artist... He is a illustrator or, better yet, an employed person with jaded quality.

 

 

I think so too... Just before the RTN release the manga final was settled!

 

@TILLER

Soooo coooool!!!

And this describes him perfectly    .

[AzureWaters]

 

 

Your grandfather was very smart! He's basically talking about quantum mechanics! Potentialities vs. actualities and 'many worlds' theories have been wrestled with from the time of Aristotle and on. Like with Shroedinger's cat, where the cat in the box is both alive and dead until the box is opened and one state is known for certain. With the many worlds theory, the universe splits off into separate outcomes from each possibility. So instead of a continuous timeline for our univers that looks like a single long thread, the universe looks more like branches on a tree. 

 

It makes my head hurt to think about all the possibilities. I think that's why we live in an actuality, in this one reality where our choices don't exist after we've made them, rather than simultaneously weighing all the potentials all the time. Our brains can't take it!! 

 

There is an anime, "Noein" (which means "to my other self"), which totally wraps this stuff into their storyline, along with time travel, young romance and changing your fate. It's really, really, really good - one of my favorite anime series of all time. 

 

As for Naruto, I think it's easy to separate the series into different universes: one where the ending impoded the whole series, and one where the ending followed along with everything that had come before. 

 

And I think Chatte's theory was so right on — if Kishimoto had played his cards right and tried a little harder to be mysterious, he could have kept all the fandoms still connected to the series. He could have ended it with the question mark hovering over the story that Obito might have actually succeeded in putting the whole Narutoverse under his jutsu. And what we're seeing as reality in the series is actually only Hinata's dream state.

 

So fanfics, art and theories could have centered around how Team 7 was going to break out. And at the end of all the Hinata pandering to the NH/SS fans, Kishimoto could have cashed in on the NS fans with another mini version, movie, novel or one-shot anime special that showed the ending going in an entirely different direction. Obito's dream state gets broken, Team 7 prevails and wakes up, then NS and the hint of SK are shown before everything is returned to normal.

 

So the idea of alternate universes in Naruto could definitely be supported. Too bad Kishimoto wasn't creative enough to go that route. 

 

That version of Kishimoto must exist somewhere else right now, along with a bunch of happy NS fans!! 

Personally I wouldn't like that at all. If he's going to "redo" the ending then he would need to completely overwrite the SS/NH endgame, not just make NaruSaku canon in an alternate finale. It would be too confusing for the fandoms, and certainly wouldn't go well if he kept the children as well. You're going to have SS/NH kids in one chapter and then NS child in the next? No, it has to be one or the other.

[Popuri]

Finally some new information regarding the box office has appeared. It appears like TL has managed to garner $179,370 on its opening night in the US. Australia earned $134,543, $29,030 in New Zealand, and $329,622 in South Korea during their respective openings. Altogether, "The Last" has managed to earn $672,565 in the initial week. This is not including Indonesia, The Philippines, Malaysia, or Mexico. 

 

(http://www.boxoffice...=lastnaruto.htm)

 

     

 

Allow me to not report from Indonesia!

 

Anyway, the cinema that will release it usually has expensive tix which is understandable since it offers premium service. But it's only limited to big cities.

 

Once again..

 

     

Edited by xpopurix, 13 March 2015 - 12:50 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
Well said with everything, and indeed he is a fool.
 
I wrote years ago (2009 if I had to guess) about what I thought Kishimoto was doing with Sakura. Basically my point was that she started as a selfish, self centered little girl who loved a horrible person for their outside beauty. Which isn't difficult to understand, I mean she is a twelve year old at first so her being shallow then wouldn't be a complete negative. People that age are often concerned with foolish things.
 
At the time I thought this story would be about basically children accepting the realities of adulthood. For Sakura that meant giving up on her child like feelings towards people, and growing into a woman in her own right. Radical idea right? I thought we'd see her grow, learn some self respect, reflect on how her life has turned out the way it has, and eventually when it came to romance to learn the importance of true loves bonds with the person who would go from being her best friend to her lover, namely Naruto.
 
Hinata on the other hand, if she had to exist (remember I've never liked her character because I've seen her as always being the worst type of character the "purely innocent and rich fan girl who selfishly will get whatever she wants because it is her destiny"), she should have become a character who also grew up. For her this would have meant her taking control of her clan, breaking them from the evil of their centuries old indoctrinations, and freeing them up for the culture that has them ENSLAVE half of their fellow family. I assumed that she would become head of her clan, and eventually would learn how to create her families special eye powers, without it relying on centuries of continued inbreeding. On the way she would surrender her obsession with Naruto (who she loved only as a symbol of the free will she longed to had) and instead would take up her rightful role as the head of her clan, which eventually would likely have her become an actually human being instead of a stereotypical character (The shy "Princess") and therefor would actually develop a personality beyond an obsession and character history.
 
Naruto should have simply stayed as what he was. A character who continued to fight for the right of mankind to choose what they want to be, with no reverence towards the governmental structure that oppressed him and everyone else. As an orphan with the demon in his soul, he was a natural underdog, who's very character screamed at the top of his lungs that he had a RIGHT to his life and liberty. Naruto constantly chooses to try to be the best person he can be! Originally he wasn't from an "important" family, nor was he some ancient reincarnated perfect Prince who everyone loved. Naruto was a self made man, who started from the lowest of the low to rise to the highest of the high of the social hierarchy. A man who's very story should have been about how every person has a right to their life, in order to dream the dreams they want to, and to put action into reaching those goals. Which was his story until the end.
 
Finally for this point the is Sasuke. Oh precocious precious Sasuke, should have first and foremost been a warning. A warning about the very destructive nature about revenge. As the story continued his sanity, morals, and health should have continued to decline steadily as he slipped further and further into the madness of being an "avenger". A man who doesn't care about the lives of others, and instead wants to bend them to HIS will so HE can get what is right by force HIS. He was the perfect opposite of Naruto once. He was his classes "chosen one" (beloved by his elders, loved by the women around his age, and the envy of the men his age), who came from the "chosen people" (the "legendary" Uchiha) who would redeem the clan and bring it back to greatness. The very nature of being that should have corrupted him, which should have ultimately lead to the conclusion for all to see that the evil the he became wasn't his destiny... but was a choice he made because of his own selfish desires. His arc should have been a warning against vice, and how "might makes right" leads all of mankind to death and ruin, indeed it sucks the very soul of humanity out of a person, turning them into nothing more then a ravenous beast who can't see beyond their own twisted view of their moral code. As I said the entire time Sasuke should have lost everything. If not his life he should at least in the end lost his eyes, the very thing that mattered so much to him. The symbolic connection of what made him such a horrible person, his Uchiha bloodline and stupid pride. If he was destined to live in the end because of market forces, he should have been a broken man who was learning the true lesson of humbleness. His eyes gone, his standing as the "chosen one" of the village stripped form him because of his actions, and his survival happening simply because of the one bond he never lost the one he had with Naruto. He should have been forced to his knees because of the righteousness of Naruto's cause and the weakness of his own. Which of course didn't happen.
 
So what did we get?
 
We got a Sakura who regressed back to being the selfish 12 year old she was. He personality and character development up until then was stripped from her. Once again she became a crying burden placed on her team who "couldn't do anything right" unlike the men around her who had to risk their lives to protect her (of course the glaring one who didn't was Sasuke who had no problem with her dying since she was nothing more then dead weight to him). Her "great" moment and the climax of her character arc comes from her admitting that she is useless, and the she loves Sasuke because.... well she always has since a young child and she wasn't no "dime store ho" she wasn't going to change her mind now. What was she some kind of slut? A woman being able to change her mind? That's stupid talk. Women are things for the sexual glorification of the men who own them, and Sakura is Sasuke's property because she gave him her heart when she was 6. Sakura's humanity was stripped form her, and even after the "love of her life" tortures her and makes her believe that she has just been murdered by HIM PUNCHING HER THREW THE F@CKING HEART!!!! it ends with her begging him to give her the kitten, well her lip quivers and she looks at the ground. She is rewarded for her lack of humanity, and for her desire to be submissive to her superior male counterpart by having her forehead flicked.... the same way said superior male had his forehead flicked when he was standing in front of his better... his "sainted" brother. That's a good b*tch Sakura, if you keep on this path Sasuke may give you that pity kitten you dream about. Don't forget to always think the worst about yourself though, and admit that you are nothing compared to him. Only threw the submission of your humanity can you have any value Sakura. Keep it up girl you'll get that kitten at least once before Sasuke abandons you again to raise your child alone well he saves a cat in a tree three nations away from his family.
 
Then there is Hinata. Hinata the beloved submissive Princess is also rewarded, for her obsession with getting the kitten at the price of any other goal. She shows the greatness of her character by continuing to show all she wants is the kitten from Naruto. Even after her baby sister is kidnapped, she is still compelled to work on her knitting skills cause hell Naruto may love her if she is good enough at making a scarf. Her family obligations aren't really her problem... but she maybe able to use them in order to get Naruto to notice her more. Wait does Naruto have another scarf? OH POOR PRINCESS HINATA!!! IT LIKELY MEANS NARUTO ISN'T A VESTAL VIRGIN ANYMORE! HE GAVE INTO HIS URGES HAD SEX WITH ANOTHER GIRL AND TOOK UP HER SCARF INSTEAD OF THE PRINCESS!! What does the Princess do now? Why sit and cry of course! She's a woman after all, if she isn't the first to have sex with Naruto then what's the point? She isn't going to accept sloppy seconds, because she doesn't actually love Naruto, just what Naruto represents. Now she will have to accept old maid status, the greatest dishonor for any woman. The Clan will soon be lead by some branch family if the state doesn't get around to saving her sister, and Hinata is to good to have sex with anyone else. She ain't no dime store ho. ........But wait! Naruto's scarf is from his Mother!!!! Oh Hinata you've allowed the fact that you weren't born with a pair of balls to make a fool of yourself again! Naruto's still a virgin, so his kitten is worthy of your greatness! Make him earn it though this time and keep up the knitting! You go girl!
 
Naruto somehow ends up worst then both Sakura and Hinata. The boy who fought for free will, and the natural rights of even the weakest members of society, ends up not only becoming the son of the 4th Hokage, but it turns out he is the child of destiny...... Not only that but he is the reincarnated Prince Valiant of this universe..... he was destined to become the person he is.... he didn't earn it... it was dictated by "fate".... all his actions before and speeches.... well they are meaningless.... even his personality as the person who will never give up and never stop caring about people is something he has simply because that's how his Prince Valiant self used to be.... that's right it's not his own life story that caused his view points! Oh no, nothing so peasant like that, no not for the child of destiny. Naruto's goodness actually comes from the fact that he is the once and future king of the world. This time though he is also going to save the soul of his ancient and everlasting brother who just happens to be Sasuke..... oh he is also really really stupid. Love? Isn't that the feeling you get from eating ramen noodles? Not stupid enough though it seems, since he used Sakura in order to one up his soul brother by trying to have sex with and defile the property Sasuke owns. Luckily said property, Sakura herself, calls him out on this, and Naruto admits that he was just playing with her emotions hoping that it would piss off her owner.
 
Then we get to precious Sasuke who got the way his is threw no fault of his own! No not precious Sasuke! OH NO! You see Sasuke is cursed twice over! First he is the reincarnation of Prince Gloomy. All his anti social tendencies and questionable moral calls, the fact that he is an outright murder and fascist terrorist.... it's all because he is destined to be a depressive selfish asshat. Second he is cursed to be a member of the Uchiha clan. What does that mean? Does it mean that he is cursed to come from a war like people who put their own desire for political power above their fellow human beings, even above their own family members? Oh no nothing of the kind! You see the Uchiha just love people to much... that's right they are trying to kill people because of love! Why did they try to take over the leaf? Why because of love! Which explains the way he treats Sakura the way he does! He beats her and tried to murder her multiple times because of love! Why does he torture her? Oh it must be love! Letting her fall to her death into a bit of lava? Love! Abandoning her after one pity kitten? Love! Which is why he also tries to become a fascist dictator, he loves the world that much that he will do for them what he knows is best. Sadly when he was trying to use his strength to force his will on others his soul brother "Prince Naruto Valiant" won't relent unless he plays nice.... and Prince Gloomy just isn't able to outright kill Prince Valiant so yeah he'll stop.... so long as Prince Valiant keeps loving Prince Gloomy..... who can spend the rest of his life wandering the world at least. His household? The woman he owns will fulfill her duty to him and follow threw with his will in his absence. It's not like she has any desires that have nothing to do with him, she knows her role and she shuts her mouth around him.
 
kitten you Kishimoto. kitten you.

Post of the week.

Ran out of likes...

[tricksie]

Personally I wouldn't like that at all. If he's going to "redo" the ending then he would need to completely overwrite the SS/NH endgame, not just make NaruSaku canon in an alternate finale. It would be too confusing for the fandoms, and certainly wouldn't go well if he kept the children as well. You're going to have SS/NH kids in one chapter and then NS child in the next? No, it has to be one or the other.

 

I don't mean a redo, as in publishing something that wipes out the ending that's already there. 

 

More like a "secret" book that is released without much fanfare, but that opens up the storyline as if it is just a dream. Something that has an open end, like "The Gutsy Ninja," but that strongly hints of a future where Naruto and Sakura get together, as well as Sasuke/Karin. Something that might pick up where "The True End" chapter left off.

 

But to do it would have required more 'hints' about something not being quite right, and a stronger emphasis on the dream jutsu possibly taking hold. 

 

It surprises me that they didn't go this route, because it would have kept the most fans still connected to the series, and still willing to shell out money. By slamming the door on NS and then going back and saying that all the build up was a lie, they alienated a HUGE chunk of their fanbase and lost thousands of dollars in future sales.

 

Keeping them all on the hook for a secret alternative ending would have kept the NS fans still in the fold and still willing to shell out money. 

 

Since that's what drove the manga in the end — money, not creativity — I'm surprised they didn't try to keep the maximum amount of fans around for the longest period of time.

[TouKen4Life3g]

No lies but after the interview, I'm starting to regret it more so than questioning myself.

[Popuri]

@NS4L3g

Which interview you're talking about?

[TouKen4Life3g]

The one with Neji being Cupid but now, it got near translated and really, I wish this kitten said these stuff early preventing me to support.

[AzureWaters]

 

I don't mean a redo, as in publishing something that wipes out the ending that's already there. 

 

More like a "secret" book that is released without much fanfare, but that opens up the storyline as if it is just a dream. Something that has an open end, like "The Gutsy Ninja," but that strongly hints of a future where Naruto and Sakura get together, as well as Sasuke/Karin. Something that might pick up where "The True End" chapter left off.

 

That sounds awfully like trolling. lol

Honestly they would have to alienate a large section of their fanbase anyway. It's always like that if you deal with pairings. If they went with NS they would be alienating NH and SS. Similar to how they're alienating NaruSaku now because they went with NH/SS. Someone would have to be left in the dust. It isn't particularly unique to Naruto the series, as it's like this with most stories that have fandoms split between ships.

Edited by AzureWaters, 13 March 2015 - 01:34 PM.

[Nar123]

 

Well said with everything, and indeed he is a fool.

 

I wrote years ago (2009 if I had to guess) about what I thought Kishimoto was doing with Sakura. Basically my point was that she started as a selfish, self centered little girl who loved a horrible person for their outside beauty. Which isn't difficult to understand, I mean she is a twelve year old at first so her being shallow then wouldn't be a complete negative. People that age are often concerned with foolish things.

 

At the time I thought this story would be about basically children accepting the realities of adulthood. For Sakura that meant giving up on her child like feelings towards people, and growing into a woman in her own right. Radical idea right? I thought we'd see her grow, learn some self respect, reflect on how her life has turned out the way it has, and eventually when it came to romance to learn the importance of true loves bonds with the person who would go from being her best friend to her lover, namely Naruto.

 

Hinata on the other hand, if she had to exist (remember I've never liked her character because I've seen her as always being the worst type of character the "purely innocent and rich fan girl who selfishly will get whatever she wants because it is her destiny"), she should have become a character who also grew up. For her this would have meant her taking control of her clan, breaking them from the evil of their centuries old indoctrinations, and freeing them up for the culture that has them ENSLAVE half of their fellow family. I assumed that she would become head of her clan, and eventually would learn how to create her families special eye powers, without it relying on centuries of continued inbreeding. On the way she would surrender her obsession with Naruto (who she loved only as a symbol of the free will she longed to had) and instead would take up her rightful role as the head of her clan, which eventually would likely have her become an actually human being instead of a stereotypical character (The shy "Princess") and therefor would actually develop a personality beyond an obsession and character history.

 

Naruto should have simply stayed as what he was. A character who continued to fight for the right of mankind to choose what they want to be, with no reverence towards the governmental structure that oppressed him and everyone else. As an orphan with the demon in his soul, he was a natural underdog, who's very character screamed at the top of his lungs that he had a RIGHT to his life and liberty. Naruto constantly chooses to try to be the best person he can be! Originally he wasn't from an "important" family, nor was he some ancient reincarnated perfect Prince who everyone loved. Naruto was a self made man, who started from the lowest of the low to rise to the highest of the high of the social hierarchy. A man who's very story should have been about how every person has a right to their life, in order to dream the dreams they want to, and to put action into reaching those goals. Which was his story until the end.

 

Finally for this point the is Sasuke. Oh precocious precious Sasuke, should have first and foremost been a warning. A warning about the very destructive nature about revenge. As the story continued his sanity, morals, and health should have continued to decline steadily as he slipped further and further into the madness of being an "avenger". A man who doesn't care about the lives of others, and instead wants to bend them to HIS will so HE can get what is right by force HIS. He was the perfect opposite of Naruto once. He was his classes "chosen one" (beloved by his elders, loved by the women around his age, and the envy of the men his age), who came from the "chosen people" (the "legendary" Uchiha) who would redeem the clan and bring it back to greatness. The very nature of being that should have corrupted him, which should have ultimately lead to the conclusion for all to see that the evil the he became wasn't his destiny... but was a choice he made because of his own selfish desires. His arc should have been a warning against vice, and how "might makes right" leads all of mankind to death and ruin, indeed it sucks the very soul of humanity out of a person, turning them into nothing more then a ravenous beast who can't see beyond their own twisted view of their moral code. As I said the entire time Sasuke should have lost everything. If not his life he should at least in the end lost his eyes, the very thing that mattered so much to him. The symbolic connection of what made him such a horrible person, his Uchiha bloodline and stupid pride. If he was destined to live in the end because of market forces, he should have been a broken man who was learning the true lesson of humbleness. His eyes gone, his standing as the "chosen one" of the village stripped form him because of his actions, and his survival happening simply because of the one bond he never lost the one he had with Naruto. He should have been forced to his knees because of the righteousness of Naruto's cause and the weakness of his own. Which of course didn't happen.

 

So what did we get?

 

We got a Sakura who regressed back to being the selfish 12 year old she was. He personality and character development up until then was stripped from her. Once again she became a crying burden placed on her team who "couldn't do anything right" unlike the men around her who had to risk their lives to protect her (of course the glaring one who didn't was Sasuke who had no problem with her dying since she was nothing more then dead weight to him). Her "great" moment and the climax of her character arc comes from her admitting that she is useless, and the she loves Sasuke because.... well she always has since a young child and she wasn't no "dime store ho" she wasn't going to change her mind now. What was she some kind of slut? A woman being able to change her mind? That's stupid talk. Women are things for the sexual glorification of the men who own them, and Sakura is Sasuke's property because she gave him her heart when she was 6. Sakura's humanity was stripped form her, and even after the "love of her life" tortures her and makes her believe that she has just been murdered by HIM PUNCHING HER THREW THE F@CKING HEART!!!! it ends with her begging him to give her the kitten, well her lip quivers and she looks at the ground. She is rewarded for her lack of humanity, and for her desire to be submissive to her superior male counterpart by having her forehead flicked.... the same way said superior male had his forehead flicked when he was standing in front of his better... his "sainted" brother. That's a good b*tch Sakura, if you keep on this path Sasuke may give you that pity kitten you dream about. Don't forget to always think the worst about yourself though, and admit that you are nothing compared to him. Only threw the submission of your humanity can you have any value Sakura. Keep it up girl you'll get that kitten at least once before Sasuke abandons you again to raise your child alone well he saves a cat in a tree three nations away from his family.

 

Then there is Hinata. Hinata the beloved submissive Princess is also rewarded, for her obsession with getting the kitten at the price of any other goal. She shows the greatness of her character by continuing to show all she wants is the kitten from Naruto. Even after her baby sister is kidnapped, she is still compelled to work on her knitting skills cause hell Naruto may love her if she is good enough at making a scarf. Her family obligations aren't really her problem... but she maybe able to use them in order to get Naruto to notice her more. Wait does Naruto have another scarf? OH POOR PRINCESS HINATA!!! IT LIKELY MEANS NARUTO ISN'T A VESTAL VIRGIN ANYMORE! HE GAVE INTO HIS URGES HAD SEX WITH ANOTHER GIRL AND TOOK UP HER SCARF INSTEAD OF THE PRINCESS!! What does the Princess do now? Why sit and cry of course! She's a woman after all, if she isn't the first to have sex with Naruto then what's the point? She isn't going to accept sloppy seconds, because she doesn't actually love Naruto, just what Naruto represents. Now she will have to accept old maid status, the greatest dishonor for any woman. The Clan will soon be lead by some branch family if the state doesn't get around to saving her sister, and Hinata is to good to have sex with anyone else. She ain't no dime store ho. ........But wait! Naruto's scarf is from his Mother!!!! Oh Hinata you've allowed the fact that you weren't born with a pair of balls to make a fool of yourself again! Naruto's still a virgin, so his kitten is worthy of your greatness! Make him earn it though this time and keep up the knitting! You go girl!

 

Naruto somehow ends up worst then both Sakura and Hinata. The boy who fought for free will, and the natural rights of even the weakest members of society, ends up not only becoming the son of the 4th Hokage, but it turns out he is the child of destiny...... Not only that but he is the reincarnated Prince Valiant of this universe..... he was destined to become the person he is.... he didn't earn it... it was dictated by "fate".... all his actions before and speeches.... well they are meaningless.... even his personality as the person who will never give up and never stop caring about people is something he has simply because that's how his Prince Valiant self used to be.... that's right it's not his own life story that caused his view points! Oh no, nothing so peasant like that, no not for the child of destiny. Naruto's goodness actually comes from the fact that he is the once and future king of the world. This time though he is also going to save the soul of his ancient and everlasting brother who just happens to be Sasuke..... oh he is also really really stupid. Love? Isn't that the feeling you get from eating ramen noodles? Not stupid enough though it seems, since he used Sakura in order to one up his soul brother by trying to have sex with and defile the property Sasuke owns. Luckily said property, Sakura herself, calls him out on this, and Naruto admits that he was just playing with her emotions hoping that it would piss off her owner.

 

Then we get to precious Sasuke who got the way his is threw no fault of his own! No not precious Sasuke! OH NO! You see Sasuke is cursed twice over! First he is the reincarnation of Prince Gloomy. All his anti social tendencies and questionable moral calls, the fact that he is an outright murder and fascist terrorist.... it's all because he is destined to be a depressive selfish asshat. Second he is cursed to be a member of the Uchiha clan. What does that mean? Does it mean that he is cursed to come from a war like people who put their own desire for political power above their fellow human beings, even above their own family members? Oh no nothing of the kind! You see the Uchiha just love people to much... that's right they are trying to kill people because of love! Why did they try to take over the leaf? Why because of love! Which explains the way he treats Sakura the way he does! He beats her and tried to murder her multiple times because of love! Why does he torture her? Oh it must be love! Letting her fall to her death into a bit of lava? Love! Abandoning her after one pity kitten? Love! Which is why he also tries to become a fascist dictator, he loves the world that much that he will do for them what he knows is best. Sadly when he was trying to use his strength to force his will on others his soul brother "Prince Naruto Valiant" won't relent unless he plays nice.... and Prince Gloomy just isn't able to outright kill Prince Valiant so yeah he'll stop.... so long as Prince Valiant keeps loving Prince Gloomy..... who can spend the rest of his life wandering the world at least. His household? The woman he owns will fulfill her duty to him and follow threw with his will in his absence. It's not like she has any desires that have nothing to do with him, she knows her role and she shuts her mouth around him.

 

kitten you Kishimoto. kitten you.

 

 

Another amazing post. 

 

I disagree with some things you said about to Sasuke, of course but most of this post was spot on, specifically on the "destiny" part

[AHK]

I remember writing better SS fanfiction when I was 16
If fans could easily point out the flaws and understand the story, why can't Kishi? He's the damn author and he doesn't even know his own story? LOL what a joke. I seriously refuse to believe anything he says in these interviews because the manga is clear as dirt. Everything is clearly stated and established, there's absolutely NO room for debate or sudden changes. Smh and to think I used to defend this idiot.
Don't even call him an insult to bad writers, that's still an insult to worse writers
Anyways, on the plus side I picked up Satan 666, and LOL not even two chapters in and I already see the Amaterasu inspiration... It's honestly the same, just different names... If anyone has read this manga, do you see some of Sakura in Ruby? She really reminds me of her. Jio and Ruby also really remind me of NS..

  
Yeah, I don't believe anything this clown says either. There is zero way in hell that this was his plan, as the manga goes in an entirely different direction than his words. It's also kitten that he says the love letter scene was just filler for the anime, yet the anime never made that into anything apart from a small scene...that's also a subtle slight to his fans, as he was basically saying that he sold people that bought his work things that don't matter.

Lol you've still yet to see his "inspiration" for Shinra Tensei/Bansho'o Ten'nin, and Kaguya's teleportation tech. But yes, there is a lot of the former Sakura in Ruby, and the pair does remind me of NS done right.

That sounds awfully like trolling. lol
Honestly they would have to alienate a large section of their fanbase anyway. It's always like that if you deal with pairings. If they went with NS they would be alienating NH and SS. Similar to how they're alienating NaruSaku now because they went with NH/SS. Someone would have to be left in the dust. It isn't particularly unique to Naruto the series, as it's like this with most stories that have fandoms split between ships.

It wouldn't be alienating anyone, it would appeal to two different large fandoms.

[tricksie]

That sounds awfully like trolling. lol

Honestly they would have to alienate a large section of their fanbase anyway. It's always like that if you deal with pairings. If they went with NS they would be alienating NH and SS. Similar to how they're alienating NaruSaku now because they went with NH/SS. Someone would have to be left in the dust. It isn't particularly unique to Naruto the series, as it's like this with most stories that have fandoms split between ships.

 

Not talking about the feelings of those in the fandoms. I'm talking about the business of making money. And Naruto is a business. It is counterintuitive for the series to continue on making the same amount of profit, after excluding half of the fans the support it!

 

There were creative ways the they could have continued the series and retained the support of all pairings by leaving in vague and teasing hints that there might be more to the story. 

 

Then instead of us talking about how much we can't believe Kishimoto is a tool, we would be on the website comparing theories and anticipating the new books/series/movies to see if we could decipher more clues. 

 

But they chose not to go that route — which is mystifying after all the supposed 'red herrings' the put in the manga leading up to this point, why they wouldn't continue the misdirects for an increased profit — and now we see that Naruto's sales/popularity have begun its downward slide.

 

I'm not talking about feelings or the shipping wars. I'm talking about constructing the story to retain the maximum amount of fans and generate the maximum amount of money. 

[LuckyChi7]

I remember writing better SS fanfiction when I was 16

If fans could easily point out the flaws and understand the story, why can't Kishi? He's the damn author and he doesn't even know his own story? LOL what a joke. I seriously refuse to believe anything he says in these interviews because the manga is clear as dirt. Everything is clearly stated and established, there's absolutely NO room for debate or sudden changes. Smh and to think I used to defend this idiot.

Don't even call him an insult to bad writers, that's still an insult to worse writers

Anyways, on the plus side I picked up Satan 666, and LOL not even two chapters in and I already see the Amaterasu inspiration... It's honestly the same, just different names... If anyone has read this manga, do you see some of Sakura in Ruby? She really reminds me of her. Jio and Ruby also really remind me of NS..

 

I remember defending him too , no matter what people were saying about the manga I still believed things were going in the right direction, and Kishi knew what he was doing. Especially when it came to 662 because you don't put something like that in a story and not foreshadow it. The funny thing I was talking with one of my friends who doesn't care about shipping in Naruto, and I told him about the ending and kishi's reasoning behind the pairing. Just like us he also believed that Kishi coped out. 

 

Great choice in selecting 666 Satan, yeah I notice that too the first time I read it like well okay I  see where Kishi got the inspiration of Amateratsu into Naruto and there a few other things which I can't name at the top of my head, but I'm re-reading it to refresh my memory on certain things.  Yeah I also noticed some of Sakura in Ruby and her relationship with Jio does remind of me of NS. I'm not going to spoil anything but it's amazing to see how their relationship goes as the story progresses, btw what Volume are you on?  

[Decius23]

 

I don't mean a redo, as in publishing something that wipes out the ending that's already there. 

 

More like a "secret" book that is released without much fanfare, but that opens up the storyline as if it is just a dream. Something that has an open end, like "The Gutsy Ninja," but that strongly hints of a future where Naruto and Sakura get together, as well as Sasuke/Karin. Something that might pick up where "The True End" chapter left off.

 

But to do it would have required more 'hints' about something not being quite right, and a stronger emphasis on the dream jutsu possibly taking hold. 

 

It surprises me that they didn't go this route, because it would have kept the most fans still connected to the series, and still willing to shell out money. By slamming the door on NS and then going back and saying that all the build up was a lie, they alienated a HUGE chunk of their fanbase and lost thousands of dollars in future sales.

 

Keeping them all on the hook for a secret alternative ending would have kept the NS fans still in the fold and still willing to shell out money. 

 

Since that's what drove the manga in the end — money, not creativity — I'm surprised they didn't try to keep the maximum amount of fans around for the longest period of time.

 

From all that i've seen so far, it seems as if Kishimoto is a relative traditional Japanese (he often emphasises loyalty even if it's detriminal to people in question, showing mothers as nothing more than housewives instead of something like pouring over Jutsu scrolls, etc. and japanese students at my university often say that this theme of 'loyalty' is rather big in traditional households) who tried to be a bit progressive as seen in his depictions of Kushina, Tsunade and Sakura as strong women or alluding to a very traditional Hinata trying to change herself/to realize herself instead of giving in to her clans (traditional) worldview.

 

The major factor in, hm, hindering Kishimoto's growth as manga writer and even in his own character growth seems to be his workenvironment, especially his later editors and his contacts at Studio Pierot who by and large are all very traditional in their view on things (especially on women - and yes i'm fully aware that i just equaled women with things, you know why, yes?) and are even Otaku to boot. In hindsight it's too easy to see that the rather refreshing first Part of the Manga had no chance to continue like that in part two.

 

The only chance i see for Kishimoto to ever come back and either rewrite the ending or even draw a complete retake on Naruto would be firstly to let him have some time away from the Naruto franchise, like drawing a complete new manga and secondly, he needs to get away from both Shueisha and Studio Pierot.

 

He needs people who help him write the story he wants and offer advise when it seems as if he starts to loose himself in details or non-issues, not help him to have the story 'conform' to an outdated, objectifying worldview that directly conflicts with large parts of his early chapters (Shinobi are people who endure to achive their goals? Did Naruto not want to change exactly that? But in the end it's still the same as always with impending wars and sacrifising his personal time for the village/greater good. And don't get me started on the whole 'prophecy' kitten! 'In the name of Emperor Showa you are destinied to fight for Jap...erm i mean in the name of the Rikudo Sennin you are destinied to fight for the peace of the Elemental Nations!' Hmph).

Edited by Decius23, 13 March 2015 - 03:03 PM.