9679 replies to this topic

[The Tax-Man]

You're missing a couple of things. First of all, when art deliberately contradicts morality, it's most often in parody or irony. Much the way of Andy Warhol's work. I think we can agree that Kishimoto's work is not a parody of anything, seeing as how the same message is prevalent in all forms of media everywhere. Second, moral messages are relative to their time. When you talk about the Odyssey or Hercules, or the Iliad, you're speaking of thousands of years ago. Circumstances were different, and certain things we perceive as wrong now were not brought to light for a long time.

Fair enough.

[Derock]

I came back for a few minutes to see craziness. Enough with the bullsh**, people. No memes in this thread. Keep at it and I will give out the warnings.

Drop the topic and move on.

And @Pachuko: I kept reading majority of your posts and you definitely need to calm down about Sakura's Tsundere trope. If you can't handle it, just drop it. There is a fictional piece. There is hardly any need to apply real life situations to a fictional world, especially towards one that its audience are children past the age of 10.

[PachucoDesigns]

I came back for a few minutes to see craziness. Enough with the bullsh**, people. No memes in this thread. Keep at it and I will give out the warnings.

Drop the topic and move on.

And @Pachuko: I kept reading majority of your posts and you definitely need to calm down about Sakura's Tsundere trope. If you can't handle it, just drop it. There is a fictional piece. There is hardly any need to apply real life situations to a fictional world, especially towards one that its audience are children past the age of 10.

We had both stated that there would be no further memes, you're shouting outrage at something that was already settled before you showed up.

If people don't want to speak about it, then they should stop bringing it up.

I do not care what you think about my emotional investment on the subject. I find that reasoning absurd, and you are no exception. Don't tell me to calm down. If you don't want it spoken about, then don't allow it to be brought up. Even though doing so in a "debate" thread defeats the entire purpose.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 03 April 2012 - 11:29 PM.

[PachucoDesigns]

^ youre trying to tell off a mod lol.

Next NaruSaku moment I think will be win they meet up and I predict something small like a smile.

I do not fear mods, and I do not appreciate people who throw their weight around.

[Gravenimage]

I do not fear mods, and I do not appreciate people who throw their weight around.

Somebody is playing with fire be careful or you'll get burn.

[Derock]

We had both stated that there would be no further memes, you're shouting outrage at something that was already settled before you showed up.

If people don't want to speak about it, then they should stop bringing it up.

I do not care what you think about my emotional investment on the subject. I find that reasoning absurd, and you are no exception. Don't tell me to calm down. If you don't want it spoken about, then don't allow it to be brought up. Even though doing so in a "debate" thread defeats the entire purpose.

Excuse you?! What authority do you have here? My post was to remind people here to drop the subject and stick with the rules, including you.

So sorry for coming in late.

Its purpose was to end the backlash over your disagreement over a trope around 2-3 pages ago before I got the message. Yet, you keep on adding more fuel to the fire with this post.

This is debating about NaruSaku, stated right here: here via Smiter, not about other topics, such as your disagreement with Sakura hitting on Naruto and your applications of the subject toward real life when all of the stuff is fictional.

And likely, I don't care if you calm down or not since your post has a tone that you're catching an attitude with me. The post was a little saving grace from getting trouble.

[PachucoDesigns]

Excuse you?! What authority do you have here? My post was to remind people here to drop the subject and stick with the rules, including you.

So sorry for coming in late.

Its purpose was to end the backlash over your disagreement over a trope around 2-3 pages ago before I got the message. Yet, you keep on adding more fuel to the fire with this post.

This is debating about NaruSaku, stated right here: here via Smiter, not about other topics, such as your disagreement with Sakura hitting on Naruto and your applications of the subject toward real life when all of the stuff is fictional.

And likely, I don't care if you calm down or not since your post has a tone that you're catching an attitude with me. The post was a little saving grace from getting trouble.

Let me explain something to you. Anything anyone has issue with in the anime, anything they like, anything they hate, are all based off of sentiments in reality. If I am foolish for not taking kindly to Sakura's hitting Naruto, then please explain to me how it is NOT foolish for most fans to hate Sasuke for his abandonment of the Leaf? How is it NOT foolish to like or hate any pairing in this anime for any reason at all, since none of what is happening has any basis in the real world or the moral sentiments thereof? You don't want me to be quiet because I'm being foolish. You want me to be quiet because any criticism of Saskura's character is bound to start a brush fire.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 04 April 2012 - 12:04 AM.

[FoolishYoungling]

Alright next topic:

What do y'all think would happen if Sasuke turned good again and when Sakura saw him, he was fighting Madara trying to protect the kages.. Well not only would this make Naruto ratings drop and have me just give up on the show and manga, but just in case it did happen, do y'all think Sakura feelings would move towards Sasuke again? Or would she act major, and go with the guy who has always been there for her, and made the promise of a lifetime. I got to say she would still go with Naruto, but it would cause Sakura to judge her love sooner.

@Pachu: Sasuke leaving was sad, and a big let down to all of the Leaf, espically Sakura and Naruto. Sakura being tsundere is for comedy relief, and it is used as a stepping stone to make Sakura more of an animated character, and to stick out from the rest of the females in this anime (other than Kushina).

Edited by FoolishYoungling , 04 April 2012 - 12:08 AM.

[PachucoDesigns]

Alright next topic:

What do y'all think would happen if Sasuke turned good again and when Sakura saw him, he was fighting Madara trying to protect the kages.. Well not only would this make Naruto ratings drop and have me just give up on the show and manga, but just in case it did happen, do y'all think Sakura feelings would move towards Sasuke again? Or would she act major, and go with the guy who has always been there for her, and made the promise of a lifetime. I got to say she would still go with Naruto, but it would cause Sakura to judge her love sooner.

I would like to hope that her feelings are not so fickle. I would like to think she will give credit where it is due, and not dismiss Naruto as a consolation prize. But then again, good and evil are not so black and white. Especially in this kind of scenario. Realistically, even if they have a common enemy in Tobi, I can't see Sasuke wanting to return to the Leaf.

@Foolish: It doesn't really say anything about whether or not Sasuke will truly turn "good." Nevertheless, how she reacts to that scenario will spell out her feelings quite definitively.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 04 April 2012 - 12:10 AM.

[Greed-Sama]

Let me explain something to you. Anything anyone has issue with in the anime, anything they like, anything they hate, are all based off of sentiments in reality.

You do understand that the essence of storytelling is exaggeration right? If you really try to apply fictional things to the real world or vice versa than you are missing a major point.

[PachucoDesigns]

You do understand that the essence of storytelling is exaggeration right? If you really try to apply fictional things to the real world or vice versa than you are missing a major point.

I am a storyteller, Greed. I know exactly what the essence of storytelling is. And no, it is not in exaggeration. There are many more nuances to storytelling than you seem to understand.

[catsi563]

Heres a mroe interesting question.

I continue to read how Sakura may still retain feelings for Sasuke, but where is the thought process coming from that Sauske will magically turn around and acknowlede suddenly magical appearing feelings for Sakura?

with the exception of his thank you which was vague and ambiguous at best there is no evidence whatso ever to support any notion that he possesses any feelings what so ever for her.

So why is it I continue to hear people state as if it were a given fact that the instant Sasuke is redeemed he will suddenly manifest these deep seated feleings for Sakura?

[Fyuria'sLeo]

Let me explain something to you. Anything anyone has issue with in the anime, anything they like, anything they hate, are all based off of sentiments in reality. If I am foolish for not taking kindly to Sakura's hitting Naruto, then please explain to me how it is NOT foolish for most fans to hate Sasuke for his abandonment of the Leaf? How is it NOT foolish to like or hate any pairing in this anime for any reason at all, since none of what is happening has any basis in the real world or the moral sentiments thereof? You don't want me to be quiet because I'm being foolish. You want me to be quiet because any criticism of Saskura's character is bound to start a brush fire.

[TerrorKing]

Let me explain something to you. Anything anyone has issue with in the anime, anything they like, anything they hate, are all based off of sentiments in reality. If I am foolish for not taking kindly to Sakura's hitting Naruto, then please explain to me how it is NOT foolish for most fans to hate Sasuke for his abandonment of the Leaf? How is it NOT foolish to like or hate any pairing in this anime for any reason at all, since none of what is happening has any basis in the real world or the moral sentiments thereof? You don't want me to be quiet because I'm being foolish. You want me to be quiet because any criticism of Saskura's character is bound to start a brush fire.

Because Sasuke abandoning the leaf is not a trope and neither is the various pairings. Sure, some of them may contain tropes, but that's the thing. It's about how you use them.

And really, I think most people's problem with this whole discussion is not so much that you are criticizing Sakura's character, but more that you are focusing on a completely irrelevant aspect of her character (given the context of the story).

Look around this site and you'll see that there are plenty of people here (myself included) who acknowledges that Sakura is indeed not perfect and that that is why we like her.

For the record, I have nothing against your opinion or you stance on the whole "women hitting men" thing. In fact, I find it to be quite a noble stance, one that I share myself. But in this particular context, it just doesn't apply.

Okay, that is the last thing im gonna say about that subject.

Alright next topic:

What do y'all think would happen if Sasuke turned good again and when Sakura saw him, he was fighting Madara trying to protect the kages.. Well not only would this make Naruto ratings drop and have me just give up on the show and manga, but just in case it did happen, do y'all think Sakura feelings would move towards Sasuke again? Or would she act major, and go with the guy who has always been there for her, and made the promise of a lifetime. I got to say she would still go with Naruto, but it would cause Sakura to judge her love sooner.

@Pachu: Sasuke leaving was sad, and a big let down to all of the Leaf, espically Sakura and Naruto. Sakura being tsundere is for comedy relief, and it is used as a stepping stone to make Sakura more of an animated character, and to stick out from the rest of the females in this anime (other than Kushina).

I don't think she would choose any of them...yet. The thing is, Sakura is experiencing a lot of emotional turmoil right now and a lot of that turmoil can partly be attributed to her not thinking things through when it comes to her love life. So I think that she would sit down and calmly and quietly listen to not just her heart, but also her logic.

[Greed-Sama]

I am a storyteller, Greed. I know exactly what the essence of storytelling is. And no, it is not in exaggeration. There are many more nuances to storytelling than you seem to understand.

I presented one aspect of storytelling. The most important. The essence. Calling into question the nature of my understanding about something that I do on a daily basis does nothing but instigate fights.

Stories are about exaggeration. Do you really think that the battle of Troy described in Homer's Illiad is exactly as how it was written? Or what about Odysseus' trip back home? Storytelling began as exaggeration and it continues as exaggeration. Forget about the nuances or the tropes and archetypes because it all boils down to one thing.

[PachucoDesigns]

I don't think she would choose any of them...yet. The thing is, Sakura is experiencing a lot of emotional turmoil right now and a lot of that turmoil can partly be attributed to her not thinking things through when it comes to her love life. So I think that she would sit down and calmly and quietly listen to not just her heart, but also her logic.

Let's hope so. Because one way or another, she's going to have to come to a conclusion. At least, if she hopes to have any piece of mind. And if Sasuke does not come back to the Leaf, which I find ideal, then it's still going to be left up in the air. Eventually, she's going to have to make a decision.

[Nate River]

Did ya miss what I told Pachuco and Tax-man about doing this?

Knock it off.

[merryGOflava]

so...some of these comments are getting kinda long.....what are we talking about???

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Well since this thread needs a topic to debate over, I have a few NH arguments against NaruSaku recently that I debated against and thought maybe the rest of you can give it a try.
I have other posts from this same NaruHina fan but I'll just start off with one for now.

NaruHina Fan: " First off...Naruto hasn't expressed any interest in Hinata? It's not like he went Six-Tails when she was almost killed by Pain, it isn't like he told her he likes people like her in Part 1, it isn't like he acknowledged her sacrifice and praised her! And it isn't like Sakura tried to use his feelings(if Naruto's feelings were romantic or not is irrevelant at this point)
to try to make his stop trying to redeem Sasuke! You know why people hate Sakura? She uses Naruto and abuses the friendship he build with her."

That's the NH fan's first post he made to me(which was pretty faulty at best). He also sent more to me than this to counter the points I made and if you would like to see his responses than I will put them up as well.

[CloudMountainJuror]

NaruHina Fan: " First off...Naruto hasn't expressed any interest in Hinata? It's not like he went Six-Tails when she was almost killed by Pain, it isn't like he told her he likes people like her in Part 1, it isn't like he acknowledged her sacrifice and praised her! And it isn't like Sakura tried to use his feelings(if Naruto's feelings were romantic or not is irrevelant at this point)
to try to make his stop trying to redeem Sasuke! You know why people hate Sakura? She uses Naruto and abuses the friendship he build with her."

Not much to argue here. He would have gone six-tails if any other of his friends got brutally beaten like that while he was pinned down, helpless.
He likes people like her. Ok. He also basically gave it away clearly that he loved Sakura. Much more recently, mind you.
Sakura was trying to help Naruto. The way she went about it wasn't the best, but hey, she's human. She makes mistakes. At least she even bothered to forge any kind of relationship with Naruto. Hinata was standing by watching for years, and never approached him until after the time he would have needed her most.