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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#9461 T XD

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:05 PM

I know what you mean but at this case, I feel like Obito will take down Madara with him if he is TnJ, which now that seems likely. I mean something tells me that Kishi purposely have "kill Edo" ability for a reason, especially since Minato escaped death. Put it this way. In your argument, I can see Madara almost near to complete the plan, but Obito will take him down with him as Obito probably received a fatal blow from Madara when he uses senjutsu on him. So after taking down Madara, Obito will slowly die. Star Wars episode 6. Oddly enough, this does seem possible.

Yeah, this way I agree. I always considered that there's a big probability of Obito tricking Madara after TnJ. This is one of the two ways I see Madara taken down. I remember now that I wrote a post on the possibility of Madara dying this way by Obito tricking him and having a role in Madara's death.

 

The one who was manipulated will take down the one who has manipulated him at the end of the fight. Very typical.



#9462 Heaven on Earth

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:06 PM

Oh god, durian is just awful. My punishment from my girlfriend. Sakura should do that to Naruto. But hell, anime Sakura food I rather eat. This food is god awful. Waiting for her now, but good god it's awful.


ahh, durian. Smell like hell, taste like heaven lol xD theres a lot of this fruit in my country
I dont have tumblr, where can I read your LAP?

btw, regarding on Sakura's appearance now, about her bangs, reminds me of her anime version. Remember the one in onsen settings? One episode where Hinata embarassed about her boobs popping up from the water? I think Kishi fall in love with her looks (bangs down) because actually she looks so pretty ♡.♡

#9463 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:11 PM

Yeah, this way I agree. I always considered that there's a big probability of Obito tricking Madara after TnJ. This is one of the two ways I see Madara taken down. I remember now that I wrote a post on the possibility of Madara dying this way by Obito tricking him and having a role in Madara's death.
 
The one who was manipulated will take down the one who has manipulated him at the end of the fight. Very typical.

Well, yeah, but nothing wrong so long it is done right.

ahh, durian. Smell like hell, taste like heaven lol xD theres a lot of this fruit in my country
I dont have tumblr, where can I read your LAP?

btw, regarding on Sakura's appearance now, about her bangs, reminds me of her anime version. Remember the one in onsen settings? One episode where Hinata embarassed about her boobs popping up from the water? I think Kishi fall in love with her looks (bangs down) because actually she looks so pretty ♡.♡

Sure.

http://sparda3g.tumb...ve-kn4-incident

#9464 Tokura Misaki

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:18 PM

Oh god, durian is just awful. My punishment from my girlfriend. Sakura should do that to Naruto. But hell, anime Sakura food I rather eat. This food is god awful. Waiting for her now, but good god it's awful.

 

Lol.

 

That smell of durian makes me dizzy. :wacko:  I hate it despite of having durians in my country. 



#9465 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:20 PM

Lol I don't mean to offend for those who likes the fruit, but to me, unless it gives me the power to fly, it's not worth it. I mean the smell does stay inside your body for a while. Not for a long time but perhaps mentos will be your friend for a day. Lol.

#9466 rikakim94

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:25 PM

Naruto was not joking in 631, when Naruto is joking, when he's being silly, it's obvious.  His facial expressions, his body language give him away, Naruto as drawn during those panel exhibited none of those characterstics first of all, and second of all Naruto would have to be a pretty terrible person to joke about that in front of the entire army, when the question wasn't addressed to him, to his father with whom he only has a short amount of time, and when the other girl who confessed to him and who just lost her cousin is right there hearing and watching it all go down.  Naruto isn't a terrible person, he is so good that despite being a ninja he talks people down rather than killing/forcing them to change his mind.  Naruto wasn't joking, I really think individuals who think so need to re-read the manga as a whole while paying specific and special attention to how he drawn during the instances under which he is joking.  Also, Naruto walking away from Sakura because her "crimes" are unforgivable?  Another misinterpretation of Naruto.  First of all, her crimes weren't unforgivable, second of all let me just say that I find it very telling that so many accept that Naruto will forgive Sasuke for everything he's done, but not Sakura?  Not surprised by the double standard, especially given how this fandom discusses female characters in general (and Sakura in particular).

 

 

Real girl here, who has worked as a health educator (and has been exposed to the personal thoughts and lives of many females), who has worked as an educator specifically with teenaged girls, and IMO Sakura is extremely realistic especially when taking her age into account.  These are my thoughts based off my personal and professional experiences.

 

When thinking of Sakura we have to keep in mind that she is very young, only 17, men and women much older than her have far more screwed up views when it comes to relationships, but the younger an individual is and especially during the teenaged years (and until one is about 23-25) an individual's actions and decisions are particularly confusing, are clouded my emotional instincts and are often not thought through (this has to do with actual brain development, the frontal lobe which is responsible for our ability to consder the consequences of our actions only fully develops when we're around 23-24).  So, even though many people think of 17 year olds as "almost adults," the fact is they are not and out of Team 7 Sakura has always been the most "human" character, the character who responds in an age appropriate manner.  And yes, she's a trained ninja and that's something we should consider, but we should remember that it's been mentioned over and over again that the Shinobi system is flawed, and one of the flaws is that children are trained as killing machines.  It's better now --after the establishment of the village system-- but it's still extremely imperfect, and frankly whether it's specifically mentioned within the manga or not it is problematic that 17 year olds are (or were) leading the battle for some time.

 

As to the question of what she's thinking, what one must realize is that Sakura isn't thinking, but she's feeling, and her emotions have been so jumbled that she doesn't know what she' feeling and because she doesn't know what she's feeling she can't even begin to analyze what she is thinking.

 

Now, isn't that confusing to read?  So, if it's confusing for use to read, think about how much more confused she is.  She's the one who is actually going through whatever feelings she has, and she's confused.  Basing her off the parameters of the manga, as far as she knows Sasuke is the one who complimented her forehead?  That seems silly to us, and it is silly, but Kishi had Kushina specifically mention that she fell for Minato because he complimented her hair --complimented a portion of her body for which she was bullied.  Why is that important?  Because Kishi established that a character he created to be Naruto's mother, but to also be a simplified version of Sakura fell for the first male who lifted her up from her misery.  That's the Sasuke  Sakura is holding onto, not Sasuke as he is or as he was, but Sasuke as she saw him because of Naruto's trick.

 

Now, let's look at her feelings, her reactions, and her actions towards Naruto.  Everything she has done in part 2 --particularly in later chapters-- screams that she loves him and that it's very likely that she is in love with him, but for whatever reason she will not and/or cannot consider that possiblity.  Why is that?  There are many possible reasons, and chances are there is a combination of reasons.

  1. As I mentioned before, she's obviously still hung-up on caring for the person she thought Sasuke was.  If she "loves" him, how can she "love" someone else.  Of course, it is entirely possible to romantically love many people simultaneously (often for different reasons, but  not always), but this is a concept that difficult for teenagers --especially emotional tennagers-- to understand.
  2. Just like Naruto feels undeserving of Sakura's feelings (until he can keep his promises to her), Sakura feels undeserving of Naruto's feelings.  She is unworthy of him, that's the only reason for her to say "the idiot is in love with me," some will misinterpret that as Sakura expressing her dislike of Naruto, but that is incorrect.  Sakura is expressing the fact that she feeling unworthy of Naruto's love, of the hero's love.  In that moment, he's an idiot because he loves her.  In fact, Sakura would probably agree with everyone who is hypercritical of her, she'd probably be the most hypercritical of all and until she gains some confidence with respect to who she is on a personal level, she'll continue to feel unworthy.  At the current stage she is currently (with regards to her personal self, not professional self), she's probably the first person who would say that she is undeserving of Naruto, and she'd probably be the first person to try to set Naruto up with someone she feels would be deserving of him.
  3. Because of her unresolved feelings for Sasuke, and because of the feeling that she is undeserving of Naruto, she never actually considers her feelings for Naruto.  She never fully explores what she feels for Naruto, what Yamato and Sai are insinuating when they talk to her, what it means when she's so emotional that she runs towards him and let's him off the hook for his promise (and states that she'll save Sasuke for him), she never considers why on an emotional level when Konoha was destroyed that she felt Naruto was the only person who could save Konoha, she never considers why she's focused on Naruto's well-being while everyone else is focused on Naruto's prowess (or the need to reach Naruto's level); and before someone claims that she must have considered her feelings before the confession I would say that she did not.  Before the confession it's obvious that she's doing her best to hold back her emotions, and she's operating simply to protect Naruto, prevent Sasuke from becoming an even darker person, and she's operating in such a way that nobody else will have to deal with Naruto's hatred if they are successful in "mission kill Sasuke."  What people fail to understand is that when Sakura knocked the boys out, she did so so that Naruto wouldn't be alone, and so that Konoha would retain it's hero.  Just like Naruto said to Sasuke that he would face all of Sasuke's hatred, Sakura wanted to be the only one forced to face Naruto's hatread/anger, and the only person Naruto would have to write off.

Now, precisely what does all of that mean?  That Sakura is unsure of her feelings, Sakura is confused, and she's not ready for her feelings to be clarified to herself.  Is that realistic?  YES.  That could be realistic for anyone, of any gender, of any age but is especially true of a girl who is 17.  Think about it, how often are we confused about our feelings, about how to react to a new situation.  Then, place yourself in extremely high stakes, your way of life is being threatened, your autonomy is threatened, several people are after the person you rely on the most (they want to kill him to use something that was forced into him), your home has been destroyed (at least physicall) --not only is Sakura unable to consider her feelings for personal/emotional reasons, but she simply doesn't have the time to focus on those relatively trivial matters, that's not a priority for her at the moment, and it really shouldn't be (people still dismiss Sakura as a fangirl, but since at least the Pain Arc she has only considered romance when she was forced to do so/when it was brought up to her, that's actually an exceptional sign of maturity).

 

Lastly, I want to address the notion that it's unrealistic that Sakura would hold onto her feelings for Sasuke considering all that he has done to her, to Naruto, and in general; frankly I wish that were true, but unfortunately our emotions, hormone, and mental chemicals are extremely strange.  If one examines how Sakura operates with respect to her "relationship" with Sasuke, one would notice that she displays many of the characteristics of a battered person --she's submissive to a fault, she tries to change herself for him, she knows he's bad for her but she can't let go of him-- any many other things that I'm too tired to think of.  It's not logical for her to retain her feelings for him, but our emotions (especially when we are confused by them) are not logical, they are anything but.  Obviously Sakura wasn't in an actual relationship with Sasuke, but given the circumstances and given her specific actions I'm not sure that matters --after all, in this very manga we have a character who has some sort of self-inflicted co-dependency on Naruto (I mean Hinata).  It seems that just like a victim of domestic violence, Sakura feels some sort of responsibility that seems to shame her into remaining "loyal" to Sasuke --she knew something was wrong with him but was unable to stop him, she tried to change for him but that wasn't enough, she brought him flowers and food while he was in the hospital but even that wasn't good enough it triggered her, she tried to kill him so he wouldn't cause more harm but she was too weak to do so (far too stuck on the past).  On some level, she seems to think that some of Sasuke's actions are her fault, so what would it mean if she let go, moved on --as if to do so would be the equivalent of ignoring her responsibilities.

 

tl;dr: Sakura has extremely confused in terms of romance, and she has a bit of self-hatred as well...though we don't want to face it, all that is pretty realistic especially when considering her age (though can be pretty realistic for much older individuals as well).

 

morgaine4 Since you know sakura in a complex matter.

 

Whats your take on this post? its a neutral post about sakura as a character and the way how she was treated by her author.  also shes an NS fan : http://bodegacowboy....ght-sakura-rant?

 

Do you kishi really failed sakura as a character? cause to me he kinda did this the reason why studio perriot mistreats her the most compared to other characters in the series, most of the western fandom hates her and some are legit hatred that i do understand why. 

 

whats worse is that i think right now shes not doing well both pairing wise and plot wise she dosen't do much other than to worry and speeches. Don't get me wrong its nice to see her worry about, but she needs to do some action that shes's been lacking this entire arc.



#9467 Tokura Misaki

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:31 PM

@NS4L I understand. That awful smell makes more hateful. TBH I never eat it. That's one of my most hateful fruit list. 

 

 

 

Sorry for the off-topic.  :sweatdrop:


Edited by sakutonaru, 05 October 2013 - 02:32 PM.


#9468 milan kyuubi

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:37 PM

The level of bashing Sakura, and her power has reached a new low. Aperently she is so weak now even characters like Temari will to quote rape her.

 

Just see: http://forums.mangaf...e-tier-!/page31


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#9469 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:42 PM

 

morgaine4 Since you know sakura in a complex matter.

 

Whats your take on this post? its a neutral post about sakura as a character and the way how she was treated by her author.  also shes an NS fan : http://bodegacowboy....ght-sakura-rant?

 

Do you kishi really failed sakura as a character? cause to me he kinda did this the reason why studio perriot mistreats her the most compared to other characters in the series, most of the western fandom hates her and some are legit hatred that i do understand why. 

 

whats worse is that i think right now shes not doing well both pairing wise and plot wise she dosen't do much other than to worry and speeches. Don't get me wrong its nice to see her worry about, but she needs to do some action that shes's been lacking this entire arc.

It's something we know very well, Sakura is strong but her weakness lies on her feelings when it's on the middle, she does stupid things even with the best of the intentions.

 

On the confession she lied to Naruto and went to kill Sasuke alone on which she would die, despite having the best of the intentions to lift Naruto's burden, on the first Naruto would be hurt or even feel betrayed because he would find out she did that because the k11 decided to kill Sasuke and the second she would die hurting Naruto more because of his inability to protect his love interest which is pair to pair with his desire to be hokage which is shown on the Gaara's fight.

 

Fact is that her weakness is tied up with the romance subplot, for she will only grow when she became capable of taming her own feelings, example she may or may not still "loves" Sasuke but could be mature enough to not let herself get in the middle of her purposes, she doesnt trust Sasuke and is ready to take him down if he does something funny against Naruto.


Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 October 2013 - 02:42 PM.

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#9470 T XD

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:46 PM

Well, yeah, but nothing wrong so long it is done right.

Either after Obito is down, Madara stands a bit against them then Obito strikes him, or after Obito is down, Madara stands against them for a little while longer then Obito strikes him. For now, that's what I think.


Edited by T XD, 05 October 2013 - 02:47 PM.


#9471 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:47 PM

@NS4L I understand. That awful smell makes more hateful. TBH I never eat it. That's one of my most hateful fruit list. 
 
 
 
Sorry for the off-topic.  :sweatdrop:

Lol I understand.

Back to topic, seems like I got a good feedback on my ObiRin parallel post. It's nice to know that people does share the same thoughts out there. I must admit there is one post about Hinata in the latest chapter made me laugh even though I have a different opinion. Still, good stuff in there.

#9472 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:48 PM

Either after Obito is down, Madara stands a bit against them then Obito strikes him, or after Obito is down, Madara stands against them for a little while longer then Obito strikes him. For now, that's what I think.

I'll just wait. So long the focus is right, I'm ok.

#9473 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:05 PM

 

The level of bashing Sakura, and her power has reached a new low. Aperently she is so weak now even characters like Temari will to quote rape her.

 

Just see: http://forums.mangaf...e-tier-!/page31

 

The guy who's defending her could not argue properly too.

And ignoring the hater who says about brains and stuff.

I would say Sakura is not on kage's level and i mean for me not even Tsunade is on kage's level.
Not that it's a bad thing on assuming this and that but it's that for Sakura to be a strong ninja like the kages she need more offensive abilities she cant just rely on super strenght like Tsunade who also lose to Madara because she only had it, despite having instant regenation she used her own body as a shield and a desperate attempt to defeat Madara.

 

I would say as a offensive ninja she is stronger than the k11 but as a support she's beyond kage's level, not all ninjas are meant to kick ass and defeat everyone.

The only thing i'm upset about her powers is that, Naruto should rely more on her powers i felt his chakra cloak uneeded and stupid and obviously give reasons to bashing because her abilities are meant for Naruto to only worry about fighting while she take care about protecting the alliance and healing them but kishi for some reason doesnt allow this.

Let alone Naruto with his infinite kyuubi chakra until the plot demands that he must be run out of chakra.


Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 October 2013 - 03:10 PM.

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#9474 Psychox

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:23 PM

 

I can see where you are coming from with your frustration. I personally haven't really felt angry about Sakura's feelings for Sasuke, it's always been something that I knew would play an integral part of her character and development, and for the longest time I had no idea that people actually hated her for it. I can't say I understand Sakura's confusion, or why it is so difficult for her to accept the person Sasuke really is, but I think she's getting there and I will certainly be glad when she does.

 

A great majority of people despise Sasuke , so they do so with Sakura,other particular reason is that she has a crush on the bad boy and till this moment she hasn't moved on and that gets her additional attention , so to say. We shouldn't impersonate traits to the characters  that aren't there in the first place, its unlikely and could lead to deception to ourselves , people tend to do that and voe a la
 

 

He hates NS fans just because they have a different opinion than him. He's one of those fans that'll laugh and laugh when you make fun of Sakura, but the second you bash Hinata he gets all defensive and will make up some of the most unreal arguments ever.

 

As far as bashing the NS fanbase goes, I've seen people saying he bashed someone's brother who was deployed overseas and said he hoped he came home in a coffin just because he was a NS supporter. As far as I know this is just a rumor, but I don't know what to think about it. Regardless of your shipping differences, bashing someone like that is pretty low.

 

That makes little to no sense at all. This is bad ,i mean if you don't like something, fine , but going around telling people to piss off is not nice.. Its just offensive.. Have your opinion and all ,but ... I told him to stop once , still no response . W/e .

 

 

One thing I want to say about that moment at the end of 631—I saw SS shippers (and yeah, even NH shippers) giving Naruto kitten for telling Sakura to rest—saying that Naruto was telling her to "get back in the kitchen."  :facepalm: Ugh, sorry, but that REALLY irked me. He was just telling her to effin' rest, and I found that perfectly reasonable—she was fighting and healing countless people nonstop for like two days, and had just finished up healing Naruto from an exhausted state back to 100%, and also had NO idea about the Byakugou Seal of hers. Like, kitten, what do you want from him? So many times I've seen outright antipathy for Naruto from the SS fandom, saying Naruto treats her like a baby (???) and praise Sasuke for "telling her like it is"! Tough love! Like hell they get mad because Naruto is protective of her (a common trope in shounen manga—it's not like he does it in a suffocating way, anyway), and it's like they try to find reasons why Sasuke is better for her. :\ urgh it annoys me

 

Something else I just want to add: earlier on Tumblr I saw a SS shipper reblog something that said, "You think you can know a person's feelings by memorizing a few lines of a psychology book?" and in the tags talked about how that's a big middle finger to "Sai's 'even i can tell that he really loves you!!' bullsh**". I swear some people just completely miss the point of that scene and Sai's entire character. :twitch: It makes me want to type up a damn essay on the whole thing.

 

This post was like one big rant, haha...  :sweat: Sorry.

All i have to say about this is that i am really annoyed ,but kind of satisfied in a strange way.See, when people start talking nonsense they are arguing  from fear that everything they believed in was defeated like-  Naruto moving from Sakura implying hard that from the hospital scene when Sakura hugged Sasuke (disregarding the scene via Sai's flashback of course and the obvious looks,dates etc) when she ''lied'' and we've read the infamous ''i Hate those who lie to themselves' from which people thought that he will hate Sakura for sure and a new path is open towards a certain minor side character. But that ain't right, right? 631 kind of broke the silence where folks were standing for so long, i will be honest , i came to the that chapter precisely when it got official , ALL of the forums were like literally empty overall , its like people were depressed no posts , no nothing . I didn't know back then that there was such a great pairing war going on. I've read something similar to your post ''Don't worry man Naruto won't marry his mother!'' I mean WTF?

Its laughable how far people will go just to protect what was already in the muddy soil filled with lies and illusions they've created themselves. So , yeah the bashing , denying etc., began when i came in to the picture^_^. i guess i bring good luck for NS shippers/fans and bad for many others xD.

As for Sai , stating something like he is incompetent because he has read a book , well that is the author speaking through him same goes for all other characters. So their ''arguments'' are invalid by default.

 

 

It's something we know very well, Sakura is strong but her weakness lies on her feelings when it's on the middle, she does stupid things even with the best of the intentions.

 

On the confession she lied to Naruto and went to kill Sasuke alone on which she would die, despite having the best of the intentions to lift Naruto's burden, on the first Naruto would be hurt or even feel betrayed because he would find out she did that because the k11 decided to kill Sasuke and the second she would die hurting Naruto more because of his inability to protect his love interest which is pair to pair with his desire to be hokage which is shown on the Gaara's fight.

 

Fact is that her weakness is tied up with the romance subplot, for she will only grow when she became capable of taming her own feelings, example she may or may not still "loves" Sasuke but could be mature enough to not let herself get in the middle of her purposes, she doesnt trust Sasuke and is ready to take him down if he does something funny against Naruto.

 

Hm.. I can vouch for myself that when my emotions take over i become really stupid.Its what most humans have  that is a natural trait in all of us , that's what her character represents - human weakness.When emotions/feelings take over , its game over , that's why when love is in play , you put ''pink goggles'' so say , everything seems soo good and magically - fairy dust all over, ponies , etc. I can sympathize Sakura all the way, people can bash her all they want , she is the utter reflection of what they abhor about themselves.

Once we learn to control our feelings/emotions  you'll know it when you've matured/grew up, so there you have  it , she has to mature. Sakura will become the rational self controlled/confident  grown woman we are all waiting her to do for so long.


Edited by Psychox, 05 October 2013 - 03:36 PM.

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#9475 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:53 PM

@morgaine4

 

Don't worry, I understand what you're trying to say. I wasn't implying you hated NS before 631, just curious about why that chapter made you like it more.

 

I always thought that liking a couple and shipping them were the same. Not sure if I even understand the difference still.

 

By the way I know Nala and Simba (Lion King is my favorite childhood movie), but I really have no idea who the rest of those couples are.

 

Well, for me, there was a time where I liked NaruSaku as a couple, but I didn't 'ship' them per say. I was sure the pairing would be canon in the end, and I enjoyed their interactions, but I can't say I cared one way or the other, I liked it, thought it would happen, and that was about the extent of it. Perhaps that is the difference?



#9476 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:56 PM

I'll say this. If I like the couple, I only got few words to say. If I ship the couple, I got plenty of words to say. I think I prove my point. :lol:

#9477 T XD

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:59 PM

Shipping a couple is liking the couple too. But, there's the option when a person just like the couple but don't ship them.

 

It's either this or that.


Edited by T XD, 05 October 2013 - 04:00 PM.


#9478 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:00 PM

I'll say this. If I like the couple, I only got few words to say. If I ship the couple, I got plenty of words to say. I think I prove my point. :lol:

 

Haha, I suppose that's one way to put it. In those terms I guess the only pairings I truly ship are Naruto/Sakura and Soul/Maka. :wub:



#9479 Hanabi

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:28 PM

The level of bashing Sakura, and her power has reached a new low. Aperently she is so weak now even characters like Temari will to quote rape her.
 
Just see: http://forums.mangaf...e-tier-!/page31

dont bother commenting in that thread, the op himself said he created the thread for fun.

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#9480 milan kyuubi

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 06:05 PM

dont bother commenting in that thread, the op himself said he created the thread for fun.

 

I try not to do it. But it's really pissing me of. Now they are even saying Sasori can solo Minato. I mean how can you argue with that kind of ligic.


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