9679 replies to this topic

[FoolishYoungling]

NaruIno confirmed for final pairing.

What now! Who was right?!?!? Me!

I'm more of a LeoIno fan.. sorry.

[PachucoDesigns]

I need to take this out my chest.
I'm a die hard NaruSaku fan but I have to be honest, with the latest revelation I start building up some negative hope like others here...
What keep me strong is the fact that Naruto likes Sakura and she deeply care about him, plusYamato speech and that confession, why the confession? I just cannot see why on earth Sakura will do something like that if she didn't have any romanti feeling for him, if she were joking about loving him something I really doubt and the fact Sakura would actually risk hurting him by doing so will be something very cruel by her Naruto would be so crushed, so only for that simply matter I really doubt that she did have the nerve to break his heart in a moment like that is really hard to beleive, that for Sakura will be the worstest betreyal and in the worst way possible.

I think that you have to be a real Sakura hater to beleive that she will hurt Naruto that way even with the fact that Kishi and his love for Sasuke really help a lot in putting Sakura in a bad spot.

That fact plus all the NS development is what made me still belive in NaruSaku after all the craps the author is writing about Hinata loves for Naruto in the most Recents chapters.

I really don't know why NaruSaku fans insist on remaining in denial about this. It's stated in the exact same episode. "I'll tell him. After all, the fool is in love with me." I'm not saying that she didn't believe what she was saying on some level. But she did not confess because she was in love with him and just couldn't hold it in anymore. She went there, with everyone else (the lack of doing it in a private setting only reinforces this), specifically to convince him to stop chasing Sasuke because it was the village decision to kill him to maintain political good will. Yes, she did it to spare his feelings. And the only way she could think of doing it was to give him what he wanted all along. It wasn't to confess her love for him so much as it was to release him from his promise. She simply failed to account for his personal emotional investment in the whole thing.

Eventually, the confession will be done right, I'm certain of that. But let's be real, people. That confession had an ulterior motive behind it, and it was disingenuous. Naruto may love her, and she may love him even if she hasn't fully come to admit it yet. But he's not so stupid as to take bait like that. If he actually fell for that, then to me, it would compromise the integrity of the pairing altogether. If he really loves her, then he will not allow her confession to be during those circumstances. And if she really loves him, then she will realize it was wrong to do it the way that she did, and that he did not turn her down to hurt her. He turned her down because he cares about her and he wants her to be truthful to herself and to him.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 01 April 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[Don-kun]

I really don't know why NaruSaku fans insist on remaining in denial about this. It's stated in the exact same episode. "I'll tell him. After all, the fool is in love with me." I'm not saying that she didn't believe what she was saying on some level. But she did not confess because she was in love with him and just couldn't hold it in anymore. She went there, with everyone else (the lack of doing it in a private setting only reinforces this), specifically to convince him to stop chasing Sasuke because it was the village decision to kill him to maintain political good will. Yes, she did it to spare his feelings. And the only way she could think of doing it was to give him what he wanted all along. It wasn't to confess her love for him so much as it was to release him from his promise. She simply failed to account for his personal emotional investment in the whole thing.

Eventually, the confession will be done right, I'm certain of that. But let's be real, people. That confession had an ulterior motive behind it, and it was disingenuous. Naruto may love her, and she may love him even if she hasn't fully come to admit it yet. But he's not so stupid as to take bait like that. If he actually fell for that, then to me, it would compromise the integrity of the pairing altogether. If he really loves her, then he will not allow her confession to be during those circumstances. And if she really loves him, then she will realize it was wrong to do it the way that she did, and that he did not turn her down to hurt her. He turned her down because he cares about her and he wants her to be truthful to herself and to him.

So what are you a SS fan? NH? or SS and NH? why make does kind of comments...

Edited by donjoseph19, 01 April 2012 - 08:55 PM.

[The Tax-Man]

So what are you a SS fan?

So if I called you an NS fan I wouldn't be one?

[PachucoDesigns]

So what are you a SS fan? NH? or SS and NH? why make does kind of comments...

No, I am objective. Although I do find this pairing to be the most plausible. But my point remains.

So if I called you an NS fan I wouldn't be one? huh.gif

The logic is impeccable, isn't it?

[Don-kun]

So if I called you an NS fan I wouldn't be one?

No that's not my point he say does NS fans.
I you make a comment like that you know is the wrong way to do it. I speak that way when I'm speaking about the NH or SS fan, because I'm excluding my self from them...

The way he reply was wrong and you know that.

When people will stop be in denail sounds a lot better than does NS fans.

Edited by donjoseph19, 01 April 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[tricksie]

And if she really loves him, then she will realize it was wrong to do it the way that she did, and that he did not turn her down to hurt her. He turned her down because he cares about her and he wants her to be truthful to herself and to him.

He turned her down because he was as much of an emotional mess as she was...if not more.

The problem is this was a whole confession and refusal of love based on Naruto's drive to save Sasuke. (Yes, that's right. Just as everything else in the manga revolves are Sasuke...so does their confession.)

I think Sakura's feelings are true, but they were brought to the forefront by Naruto's desperate chase after Sasuke. She didn't want Naruto to be hurt, so she was pulling out all the stops. Meaning that if her confession of love came at another time, a time that was not tied to the conflict of Sasuke, then things might have been very different.

Naruto's refusal is also based on Sasuke — not Sakura. He tells her he hates people who lie to themselves, when he in fact is lying to himself. And he's now the only one in denial. Everyone else sees Sasuke for what he is (not what he once was) and Naruto is alone in his quest. So again, if the confession was not based on Sasuke's timeline, I think Naruto's acceptance of Sakura's love would be very different.

But Naruto was certainly not mature here. So don't paint him like that. Sakura told him she loved him, and he used the strongest language he's ever used in the manga, save for the hospital-roof fight with Sasuke, to the girl who he's loved his whole life. Nice, kid. Real nice.

Naruto's reaction gets swept under the rug by the obvious planning of Sakura. But his reaction is just as out-of-left-field as Sakura's love confession is to him.

And one last thing to remember, we don't know the rest of what Sakura was planning. In the panels where she speaks to the rest of the Rookies, she makes them promise 'one more thing'.... And we are left hanging as to what that was. So there may very well be a confession to the rest of the group that will exonerate her words later on. Maybe not, but Kishimoto deliberately left part of her planning hidden from the reader. And that speaks volumes to me. (Compare it to Hinata's confession, where there was not build-up and no resolution for the reader. It just...happened. So Sakura's is meant to carry more weight and be unfinished until a later time.)

[PachucoDesigns]

But Naruto was certainly not mature here. So don't paint him like that. Sakura told him she loved him, and he used the strongest language he's ever used in the manga, save for the hospital-roof fight with Sasuke, to the girl who he's loved his whole life. Nice, kid. Real nice.

Naruto's reaction gets swept under the rug by the obvious planning of Sakura. But his reaction is just as out-of-left-field as Sakura's love confession is to him.

So how would you have him react? I'm sorry, but he was justified for being angry. He loves her with all his heart for all his life, would do anything for her, would risk his life for her, and fought for her happiness. And she chooses to "confess" her love to him only when it is a convenient device to stop him from pursuing Sasuke? He was being led around like a puppy on a leash. "Alright, Sakura-chan. Whatever you want." Really? If he didn't react the way he did, he'd be a complete tool. She knew that she had a firm hold on his heart strings, and she tried to abuse that. I will not place Naruto in the fault here, because she was the one who instigated it. In such a time of stress, she has the audacity to approach it that way? Offering herself to him like some sort of bribe, as though he should be grateful for such a "precious gift" by default. It was conceited and thoughtless. He had every right to be angry.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 01 April 2012 - 09:17 PM.

[Don-kun]

So how would you have him react? I'm sorry, but he was justified for being angry. He loves her with all his heart for all his life, would do anything for her, would risk his life for her, and fought for her happiness. And she chooses to "confess" her love to him only when it is a convenient device to stop him from pursuing Sasuke? He was being led around like a puppy on a leash. "Alright, Sakura-chan. Whatever you want." Really? If he didn't react the way he did, he'd be a complete tool. She knew that she had a firm hold on his heart strings, and she tried to abuse that. I will not place Naruto in the fault here, because she was the one who instigated it. In such a time of stress, she has the audacity to approach it that way?Offering herself to him like some sort of bribe, as though he should be grateful for such a "precious gift" by default. It was conceited and thoughtless. He had every right to be angry.

My point is, I will like to give her the benefit of the doubt.
Honestly will you look at NaruSaku the same way if she was completely manipulating Naruto's feelings in her confession? I for sure will not look at the pairing same way, I will not want Sakura not even 100 meters close to Naruto Sai told her that Naruto deeply love her, for me that will be the worse think she could ever do to him. that's why 97% off the NS fans wants to believe that there was some truth in that confession...
I will find it hard to still like the pairing if she was completly lying to him, why? that is not something you will do to the person that supports you the most and will give everything and anything in life to see you happy, Im sure Sakura knows that.

[Broken Figurine]

So how would you have him react? I'm sorry, but he was justified for being angry. He loves her with all his heart for all his life, would do anything for her, would risk his life for her, and fought for her happiness. And she chooses to "confess" her love to him only when it is a convenient device to stop him from pursuing Sasuke? He was being led around like a puppy on a leash. "Alright, Sakura-chan. Whatever you want." Really? If he didn't react the way he did, he'd be a complete tool. She knew that she had a firm hold on his heart strings, and she tried to abuse that. I will not place Naruto in the fault here, because she was the one who instigated it. In such a time of stress, she has the audacity to approach it that way? Offering herself to him like some sort of bribe, as though he should be grateful for such a "precious gift" by default. It was conceited and thoughtless. He had every right to be angry.

Now you're being on the opposite end of the extreme--making his reaction one, bigger than it was and two, way into his favour disregarding why Sakura did it. "The audacity", honestly. She was trying to ditch any reason about his making that promise to her, so that she wasn't part of the reason why he was so obsessed with going after Sasuke, and even afterwards when she turns her back she's leaning her head down and apologizing for what she just did. She wasn't doing anything you were accusing her of because she was actually trying to instigate his ire against her. She was trying a last-resort type thing to have him drop his promise and hopefully convince him to come back. There are shades of grey in her confession. She does praise Naruto truthfully, but he saw through her dishonesty about Sasuke. She was going to go after Sasuke alone whether Naruto pursued him or not, because she felt that it was better that she be burdened by the hurt of killing someone they BOTH love, and she wasn't stupid enough not to know that 1) that was like a suicide mission and 2) Naruto may hate her. She's apologizing to him, but she's also doing it FOR HIM, for their team. It was an incredibly unselfish act when you consider the repercussions. Yes, he had the right to get angry at her, but she didn't try to "abuse it" like you say. He didn't appreciate her being dishonest with him. He knew what she was saying about Sasuke wasn't true, because of all they had gone through together. He didn't want her to lie to herself and yes, him be the more convenient option.

But it was not "conceited and thoughtless". It was actually very much thought through, the issue was she didn't have the chance of following it through. She would have died had Kakashi, Sai and Naruto, her team, not gone in. Both Sai and Kakashi apologize about it, the former for putting that guilt on her and making it seem like SHE was the problem, and Kakashi for having reassured her in her youth and not have had a greater role in trying to put Sasuke on the right. Sakura was trying to relieve team seven's problem on her own and it would have cost her her life and maybe even had Naruto hate her for it. She knows his bond to him... She was trying to make it seem like SHE had let go of hers for Sasuke.

Edited by Broken Figurine, 01 April 2012 - 09:44 PM.

[PachucoDesigns]

My point is, I will like to give her the benefit of the doubt.
Honestly will you look at NaruSaku the same way if she was completely manipulating Naruto's feelings in her confession? I for sure will not look at the pairing same way, I will not want Sakura not even 100 meters close to Naruto Sai told her that Naruto deeply love her, for me that will be the worse think she could ever do to him. that's why 97% off the NS fans wants to believe that there was some truth in that confession...
I will find it hard to still like the pairing if she was completly lying to him, why? that is not something you will do to the person that supports you the most and will give everything and anything in life to see you happy, Im sure Sakura knows that.

Yeah, I know. I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt, too. But I'm not going to if the circumstances don't give it any merit, and they don't. So if I did, I'd be in denial. I'm not saying she doesn't love him, I'm not even saying that she outright lied to him. That's not the point. The point is that she used that confession to try and manipulate him. That was her direct goal, there's no way around that. I think she was trying to do a good thing, to do whatever she had to do to spare him the suffering of losing Sasuke. To soften the blow. The problem is that she went about it the wrong way, and it was inconsiderate. We all make mistakes, and I'm she'll regret this one. But that does not make her beyond redemption. He does not hate her. He still loves her. That much is obvious. But he's not stupid enough to let himself be manipulated like that. He deserves more respect than that, and he knows it. He was right to turn her down this time.

But that is the point, isn't it? Why would you suppress what you actually see just to remain steadfast to your opinion. How many transgressions can you hide with the benefit of the doubt. I would rather have her own up to her mistake and redeem herself rather than sheltering herself in the belief that she was right. If she truly loves him, if she truly respects him, then she will take his feelings into account and will not offer herself to him like some sort of reward for her service, so sure of her untarnished value in his heart that she could never do wrong. That is not how you treat someone you honestly love.

Now you're being on the opposite end of the extreme--making his reaction one, bigger than it was and two, way into his favour disregarding why Sakura did it. "The audacity", honestly. She was trying to ditch any reason about his making that promise to her, so that she wasn't part of the reason why he was so obsessed with going after Sasuke, and even afterwards when she turns her back she's leaning her head down and apologizing for what she just did. She wasn't doing anything you were accusing her of because she was actually trying to instigate his ire against her. She was trying a last-resort type thing to have him drop his promise and hopefully convince him to come back. There are shades of grey in her confession. She does praise Naruto truthfully, but he saw through her dishonesty about Sasuke. She was going to go after Sasuke alone whether Naruto pursued him or not, because she felt that it was better that she be burdened by the hurt of killing someone they BOTH love, and she wasn't stupid enough not to know that 1) that was like a suicide mission and 2) Naruto may hate her. She's apologizing to him, but she's also doing it FOR HIM, for their team. It was an incredibly unselfish act when you consider the repercussions. Yes, he had the right to get angry at her, but she didn't try to "abuse it" like you say. He didn't appreciate her being dishonest with him. He knew what she was saying about Sasuke wasn't true, because of all they had gone through together. He didn't want her to lie to herself and yes, him be the more convenient option.

But it was not "conceited and thoughtless". It was actually very much thought through, the issue was she didn't have the chance of following it through. She would have died had Kakashi, Sai and Naruto, her team, not gone in. Both Sai and Kakashi apologize about it, the former for putting that guilt on her and making it seem like SHE was the problem, and Kakashi for having reassured her in her youth and not have had a greater role in trying to put Sasuke on the right. Sakura was trying to relieve team seven's problem on her own and it would have cost her her life and maybe even had Naruto hate her for it. She knows his bond to him... She was trying to make it seem like SHE had let go of hers for Sasuke.

Yes, and in doing so, she thought that the mere suggestion that she no longer cares about Sasuke would be enough to deter Naruto from pursuing him any further, or at least to make him question his own feelings for Sasuke just because she apparently did. It's as though all of the times he spoke of Sasuke as his first true connection, like a brother, fell on deaf ears. It's as though she believed that he couldn't possibly be doing it for anyone's sake other than hers. What would she possibly gain out of angering Naruto? You seriously believe that she did what she did knowing that he would not take kindly to it? Her reaction says otherwise. She may have been apologizing for trying to manipulate him, but I doubt she was apologizing for anything going according to plan. However you look at it, whatever you believe her goal was, whether you think it was for his sake or not, the point remains: the confession was contrived, and its purpose was not in the confession itself. She did it because she knew it was the best chance she had at freeing him from his burden to her. But if she had considered his personal involvement in the matter, she would have known that the confession would not work out the way she hoped.

Unless she planned for Naruto to do anything other than blindly accept her advance, it was conceited. Because nowhere in her mind did she think he would dare to turn her down. How dare he? He had the crush on her, right? He should be enthralled, honored. Shouldn't he? No, he shouldn't. Because she is human the same as he is, and he has dignity. He has his pride. Accepting that advance after everything that happened would be an insult to his affection and his intelligence. She could have easily been forthcoming about it. Or, at the very least, she could have said that she had lost her bond to Sasuke without bribing him with love. That was uncalled for, and it was hurtful.

Imagine yourself in his shoes. Imagine someone you have loved all your life, someone you were hopeful would one day return your affection even after years of getting turned down. Imagine sacrificing everything to keep that person safe and happy. Imagine going above and beyond the call of duty, facing death itself to try and save a mutual friend. Imagine forcing yourself to swallow your pain, and promising to bring that friend back because that special someone loved that friend. Imagine returning in a body cast, less concerned with yourself than you are with that special someone and the lost friend, and spending years to prepare for that chance. Imagine all of that, and instead of being truthful with you, your special someone "confesses" their love while at the same time stating their abandonment for your lost friend. Now, sure, you may be able to see that this person is doing it for your sake. But would you really be deluded enough to succumb to that advance?

How would you feel knowing that after putting all of your feelings out to them, dedicating your love to them, it only amounted to their knowledge that they could make you do anything they want at the mere act of "tossing you a bone?" Would you not be hurt? Would you not feel belittled? Used? Would you really feel that your feelings actually made it to them in earnest, or would you feel like they are treating your heart like their personal plaything?

She may have been doing it for his sake. But her "confession" was cruel. He may not be too bright, but he isn't that dim. And he has feelings, too.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 01 April 2012 - 10:10 PM.

[tricksie]

So how would you have him react? I'm sorry, but he was justified for being angry. He loves her with all his heart for all his life, would do anything for her, would risk his life for her, and fought for her happiness. And she chooses to "confess" her love to him only when it is a convenient device to stop him from pursuing Sasuke? He was being led around like a puppy on a leash. "Alright, Sakura-chan. Whatever you want." Really? If he didn't react the way he did, he'd be a complete tool. She knew that she had a firm hold on his heart strings, and she tried to abuse that. I will not place Naruto in the fault here, because she was the one who instigated it. In such a time of stress, she has the audacity to approach it that way? Offering herself to him like some sort of bribe, as though he should be grateful for such a "precious gift" by default. It was conceited and thoughtless. He had every right to be angry.

No dear, he's not justified in his anger. Naruto's anger is way out of proportion to the situation.

A simple refusal is not the same as "I hate people who...." He could have easily dismissed the whole thing with a laugh and gone on. He's done it plenty of times before (dismissing Sakura's concern or telling her not to interfere). But here, he chose to respond to her "love" with "hate." It just doesn't make sense...on the surface level.

But on the broader spectrum, I think Naruto's response has more to do with his feelings about Sasuke and Sakura and their teammate bond than Sakura's direct words to him at that moment. Because if Sakura loved him now, then that meant their Team 7 dynamic would radically change. Forever.

I'll say it again, Naruto is the only one lying to himself here. Not Sakura. She's not lying — she's shielding him from this painful truth that chances are Sasuke's going to die. And at the time of the confession, she's already decided it would be by her hand.

To me, Sakura's confession is less of a love proposal about their future, but more of a love note of goodbye. She knows that from that moment on, everything is going to change. One way or another. Sai has confirmed she knew Naruto wouldn't give up, he wouldn't come home with her, and that she went there with the intent to kill Sasuke. And if she didn't, then the other Rookies would. So Sakura decided to bear all of Naruto's hatred instead of having it go to the other shinobis or Konoha. KEY POINT HERE: Exactly like Naruto told Sasuke he would do for him. So her bond with Naruto is just as strong as Naruto's bond to Sasuke. It is just there for the reader to infer, not banged over your head like the Naruto-Sasuke bond.

Just like Kakashi said, to understand what's going on here, you have to look underneath the underneath.

[merryGOflava]

I really don't know why NaruSaku fans insist on remaining in denial about this. It's stated in the exact same episode. "I'll tell him. After all, the fool is in love with me." I'm not saying that she didn't believe what she was saying on some level. But she did not confess because she was in love with him and just couldn't hold it in anymore. She went there, with everyone else (the lack of doing it in a private setting only reinforces this), specifically to convince him to stop chasing Sasuke because it was the village decision to kill him to maintain political good will. Yes, she did it to spare his feelings. And the only way she could think of doing it was to give him what he wanted all along. It wasn't to confess her love for him so much as it was to release him from his promise. She simply failed to account for his personal emotional investment in the whole thing.

Eventually, the confession will be done right, I'm certain of that. But let's be real, people. That confession had an ulterior motive behind it, and it was disingenuous. Naruto may love her, and she may love him even if she hasn't fully come to admit it yet. But he's not so stupid as to take bait like that. If he actually fell for that, then to me, it would compromise the integrity of the pairing altogether. If he really loves her, then he will not allow her confession to be during those circumstances. And if she really loves him, then she will realize it was wrong to do it the way that she did, and that he did not turn her down to hurt her. He turned her down because he cares about her and he wants her to be truthful to herself and to him.

actually i kinda agree

though to me, if sakura was willing to kill sasuke for naruto then that must mean she loves naruto more....even if she doesnt know it or doesnt want to admit it yet

[Don-kun]

Yeah, I know. I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt, too. But I'm not going to if the circumstances don't give it any merit, and they don't. So if I did, I'd be in denial. I'm not saying she doesn't love him, I'm not even saying that she outright lied to him. That's not the point. The point is that she used that confession to try and manipulate him. That was her direct goal, there's no way around that. I think she was trying to do a good thing, to do whatever she had to do to spare him the suffering of losing Sasuke. To soften the blow. The problem is that she went about it the wrong way, and it was inconsiderate. We all make mistakes, and I'm she'll regret this one. But that does not make her beyond redemption. He does not hate her. He still loves her. That much is obvious. But he's not stupid enough to let himself be manipulated like that. He deserves more respect than that, and he knows it. He was right to turn her down this time.

But that is the point, isn't it? Why would you suppress what you actually see just to remain steadfast to your opinion. How many transgressions can you hide with the benefit of the doubt. I would rather have her own up to her mistake and redeem herself rather than sheltering herself in the belief that she was right. If she truly loves him, if she truly respects him, then she will take his feelings into account and will not offer herself to him like some sort of reward for her service, so sure of her untarnished value in his heart that she could never do wrong. That is not how you treat someone you honestly love.




Yes, and in doing so, she thought that the mere suggestion that she no longer cares about Sasuke would be enough to deter Naruto from pursuing him any further, or at least to make him question his own feelings for Sasuke just because she apparently did. It's as though all of the times he spoke of Sasuke as his first true connection, like a brother, fell on deaf ears. It's as though she believed that he couldn't possibly be doing it for anyone's sake other than hers. What would she possibly gain out of angering Naruto? You seriously believe that she did what she did knowing that he would not take kindly to it? Her reaction says otherwise. She may have been apologizing for trying to manipulate him, but I doubt she was apologizing for anything going according to plan. However you look at it, whatever you believe her goal was, whether you think it was for his sake or not, the point remains: the confession was contrived, and its purpose was not in the confession itself. She did it because she knew it was the best chance she had at freeing him from his burden to her. But if she had considered his personal involvement in the matter, she would have known that the confession would not work out the way she hoped.

Unless she planned for Naruto to do anything other than blindly accept her advance, it was conceited. Because nowhere in her mind did she think he would dare to turn her down. How dare he? He had the crush on her, right? He should be enthralled, honored. Shouldn't he? No, he shouldn't. Because she is human the same as he is, and he has dignity. He has his pride. Accepting that advance after everything that happened would be an insult to his affection and his intelligence. She could have easily been forthcoming about it. Or, at the very least, she could have said that she had lost her bond to Sasuke without bribing him with love. That was uncalled for, and it was hurtful.

Imagine yourself in his shoes. Imagine someone you have loved all your life, someone you were hopeful would one day return your affection even after years of getting turned down. Imagine sacrificing everything to keep that person safe and happy. Imagine going above and beyond the call of duty, facing death itself to try and save a mutual friend. Imagine forcing yourself to swallow your pain, and promising to bring that friend back because that special someone loved that friend. Imagine returning in a body cast, less concerned with yourself than you are with that special someone and the lost friend, and spending years to prepare for that chance. Imagine all of that, and instead of being truthful with you, your special someone "confesses" their love while at the same time stating their abandonment for your lost friend. Now, sure, you may be able to see that this person is doing it for your sake. But would you really be deluded enough to succumb to that advance?

How would you feel knowing that after putting all of your feelings out to them, dedicating your love to them, it only amounted to their knowledge that they could make you do anything they want at the mere act of "tossing you a bone?" Would you not be hurt? Would you not feel belittled? Used? Would you really feel that your feelings actually made it to them in earnest, or would you feel like they are treating your heart like their personal plaything?

She may have been doing it for his sake. But her "confession" was cruel. He may not be too bright, but he isn't that dim. And he has feelings, too.

I not getting what you're saying, what you're saying is that it will be completely fine to shatter Naruto's heart because he can forgive her later if she apologize to him for her error, is ok to make mistake because we all make them.
But I think you are wrong, it's ok to lie to someone to protect them, but not lie to someone very close to you someone that truly loves you, with something there been dreaming and patiently waiting for you to say one day, love is a very strong word you can say it to someone you don't really care about, but not to someone you deeply care about. plus I'm very sure that Naruto tell her that is she say a joke like this in a time like this is not funny...

Also there is a reason why when someone question Sakura feelings for Naruto it's always been cut off and there is also a Deta Book 3 stating that Sakura feelings for Naruto are still unknown, that's why I will always give her the benefit of doubt.


Now lets agree to disagree because I really don't want to keep debating that confession
and you will never change the way a think about it...

Edited by donjoseph19, 01 April 2012 - 10:35 PM.

[PachucoDesigns]

No dear, he's not justified in his anger. Naruto's anger is way out of proportion to the situation.

A simple refusal is not the same as "I hate people who...." He could have easily dismissed the whole thing with a laugh and gone on. He's done it plenty of times before (dismissing Sakura's concern or telling her not to interfere). But here, he chose to respond to her "love" with "hate." It just doesn't make sense...on the surface level.

But on the broader spectrum, I think Naruto's response has more to do with his feelings about Sasuke and Sakura and their teammate bond than Sakura's direct words to him at that moment. Because if Sakura loved him now, then that meant their Team 7 dynamic would radically change. Forever.

I'll say it again, Naruto is the only one lying to himself here. Not Sakura. She's not lying — she's shielding him from this painful truth that chances are Sasuke's going to die. And at the time of the confession, she's already decided it would be by her hand.

To me, Sakura's confession is less of a love proposal about their future, but more of a love note of goodbye. She knows that from that moment on, everything is going to change. One way or another. Sai has confirmed she knew Naruto wouldn't give up, he wouldn't come home with her, and that she went there with the intent to kill Sasuke. And if she didn't, then the other Rookies would. So Sakura decided to bear all of Naruto's hatred instead of having it go to the other shinobis or Konoha. KEY POINT HERE: Exactly like Naruto told Sasuke he would do for him. So her bond with Naruto is just as strong as Naruto's bond to Sasuke. It is just there for the reader to infer, not banged over your head like the Naruto-Sasuke bond.

Just like Kakashi said, to understand what's going on here, you have to look underneath the underneath.

I would rather someone tell me that they hate me for lying to myself rather than have someone tell me that they love me because they want me to behave in a certain way. I would rather someone respond to my behavior with hate than deliver a contrived confession of love.

Do you remember what Naruto said? If Sasuke is to die, then he will die with him, because he will not let him be alone and without a friend when the village turns their back on him. Yes, I absolutely agree that he is deluding himself if he thinks he can bring Sasuke back and reform Team 7. But that's not what this is about anymore. It's about saving Sasuke from his hatred, letting him know that, no matter what, Naruto will always be his friend. And in that, he is not lying to himself. He has considered that Sasuke will die, and he has made a vow based specifically on that fact. When he said that to Sasuke, she should have realized her mistake. And if she did, then I believe her next confession will be proper.

Naruto has no hatred. That is the entire point. And if she thought that killing Sasuke herself was going to free him from his sorrows, she couldn't be more dense. The thought of Sakura killing Sasuke, or Sakura dying in the attempt, would only make things worse for him. He accepted all of the hatred for Sasuke because he wanted him to be redeemed, and he didn't care if that meant taking the shame. But he was direct about it. He did not plea to them with false promises of love or any equivalent thereto.

[Broken Figurine]

Yeah, I know. I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt, too. But I'm not going to if the circumstances don't give it any merit, and they don't. So if I did, I'd be in denial. I'm not saying she doesn't love him, I'm not even saying that she outright lied to him. That's not the point. The point is that she used that confession to try and manipulate him. That was her direct goal, there's no way around that. I think she was trying to do a good thing, to do whatever she had to do to spare him the suffering of losing Sasuke. To soften the blow. The problem is that she went about it the wrong way, and it was inconsiderate. We all make mistakes, and I'm she'll regret this one. But that does not make her beyond redemption. He does not hate her. He still loves her. That much is obvious. But he's not stupid enough to let himself be manipulated like that. He deserves more respect than that, and he knows it. He was right to turn her down this time.

But that is the point, isn't it? Why would you suppress what you actually see just to remain steadfast to your opinion. How many transgressions can you hide with the benefit of the doubt. I would rather have her own up to her mistake and redeem herself rather than sheltering herself in the belief that she was right. If she truly loves him, if she truly respects him, then she will take his feelings into account and will not offer herself to him like some sort of reward for her service, so sure of her untarnished value in his heart that she could never do wrong. That is not how you treat someone you honestly love.



Yes, and in doing so, she thought that the mere suggestion that she no longer cares about Sasuke would be enough to deter Naruto from pursuing him any further, or at least to make him question his own feelings for Sasuke just because she apparently did. It's as though all of the times he spoke of Sasuke as his first true connection, like a brother, fell on deaf ears. It's as though she believed that he couldn't possibly be doing it for anyone's sake other than hers. What would she possibly gain out of angering Naruto? You seriously believe that she did what she did knowing that he would not take kindly to it? Her reaction says otherwise. She may have been apologizing for trying to manipulate him, but I doubt she was apologizing for anything going according to plan. However you look at it, whatever you believe her goal was, whether you think it was for his sake or not, the point remains: the confession was contrived, and its purpose was not in the confession itself. She did it because she knew it was the best chance she had at freeing him from his burden to her. But if she had considered his personal involvement in the matter, she would have known that the confession would not work out the way she hoped.

Unless she planned for Naruto to do anything other than blindly accept her advance, it was conceited. Because nowhere in her mind did she think he would dare to turn her down. How dare he? He had the crush on her, right? He should be enthralled, honored. Shouldn't he? No, he shouldn't. Because she is human the same as he is, and he has dignity. He has his pride. Accepting that advance after everything that happened would be an insult to his affection and his intelligence. She could have easily been forthcoming about it. Or, at the very least, she could have said that she had lost her bond to Sasuke without bribing him with love. That was uncalled for, and it was hurtful.

Imagine yourself in his shoes. Imagine someone you have loved all your life, someone you were hopeful would one day return your affection even after years of getting turned down. Imagine sacrificing everything to keep that person safe and happy. Imagine going above and beyond the call of duty, facing death itself to try and save a mutual friend. Imagine forcing yourself to swallow your pain, and promising to bring that friend back because that special someone loved that friend. Imagine returning in a body cast, less concerned with yourself than you are with that special someone and the lost friend, and spending years to prepare for that chance. Imagine all of that, and instead of being truthful with you, your special someone "confesses" their love while at the same time stating their abandonment for your lost friend. Now, sure, you may be able to see that this person is doing it for your sake. But would you really be deluded enough to succumb to that advance?

How would you feel knowing that after putting all of your feelings out to them, dedicating your love to them, it only amounted to their knowledge that they could make you do anything they want at the mere act of "tossing you a bone?" Would you not be hurt? Would you not feel belittled? Used? Would you really feel that your feelings actually made it to them in earnest, or would you feel like they are treating your heart like their personal plaything?

She may have been doing it for his sake. But her "confession" was cruel. He may not be too bright, but he isn't that dim. And he has feelings, too.

The issue I have with that painted scenario is that it is the one that SAI painted, but as Naruto said he had other reasons for going after Sasuke. Yeah, Naruto's a real martyr here, having to chase after Sasuke because of all those issues. Maybe she says "the fool is in love with me" because she doesn't feel deserving of that love? Maybe, just maybe, this isn't about NaruSaku, but rather an overall team 7 issue? The way you're describing it, cruel Sakura stomped on Naruto's love and feelings, but you don't see what she was doing and planning at all. Yes, she intended to go after Sasuke no matter what Naruto's answer was, thus she brought along Kiba, Sai and Lee to help her track him down. She would have left them in Konoha if she wasn't intending to make use of them there. Naruto would have "fallen" for her confession, she'd mobilize them back in Konoha, and sneak of, if she was intending to go back with him. Either she didn't think Naruto actually would agree, or she had them there in case it failed. It's hard to see what she would have done had he said yes, but I think she was snipping the ties between herself and team 7 because her plans meant going off and betraying them--killing Sasuke. Her confession was cruel in the sense she was trying to convince Naruto otherwise on her feelings, and that she was lying. That hurts for someone who loves you, and I don't say he's wrong in being angry with her, but you cast Sakura in an overly villainous light and don't put yourself in HER shoes.

Imagine you were told that a person you love dearly has gotten way out of hand. The other villagers and your comrades have decided it was time to go after him and label him a traitor. Then, a person in your team tells you that you've been contributing to the pain of another dearly loved teammate. That kind of responsibility and guilt wears on you, and you want to release your teammate from the burden. You don't want them tied to that promise they made. So, you go and try to convince them that you are not tied to the traitor anymore, you don't want them bound by that promise of a lifetime, and it's a final thank you before you go off and commit and act that would forever destroy the team dynamic. You're going to go off and deal with the traitor yourself, so that Konoha, and most importantly, your beloved teammate doesn't have to. That's not conceited, it's desperate, and there is that bit of reckless ambition there. She KNEW Naruto couldn't let go of Sasuke, otherwise she would have mentioned that Konoha is out for Sasuke's warrant. She'd sell it to him in a way that's more honest, but instead she chooses that confession.

Is it right? I don't know, I think she could have gone about it a different way, but I don't think she's being as conceited and selfish about it as you say. I put myself in Naruto's shoes and I can see why he gets angry, I'm not arguing that, but I've also put myself in her shoes, and I can kind of see the logic behind it.

[PachucoDesigns]

Also there is a reason why when someone question Sakura feelings for Naruto it's always been cut off and there is also a Deta Book 3 stating that Sakura feelings for Naruto are still unknown, that's why I will always give her the benefit of doubt.

I don't care about the data books. By that same reasoning, it may be reasonable to give her the benefit of the doubt. But it is also reason for me to question her intentions. And let me put it this way: I would rather that my belief in the pairing is justified by the actions than have to play apologetics for the actions because I believe in the pairing. The first is a person with an endearment for the connection, but a knowledge of right and wrong. The other is a sycophant.

The issue I have with that painted scenario is that it is the one that SAI painted, but as Naruto said he had other reasons for going after Sasuke. Yeah, Naruto's a real martyr here, having to chase after Sasuke because of all those issues. Maybe she says "the fool is in love with me" because she doesn't feel deserving of that love? Maybe, just maybe, this isn't about NaruSaku, but rather an overall team 7 issue? The way you're describing it, cruel Sakura stomped on Naruto's love and feelings, but you don't see what she was doing and planning at all. Yes, she intended to go after Sasuke no matter what Naruto's answer was, thus she brought along Kiba, Sai and Lee to help her track him down. She would have left them in Konoha if she wasn't intending to make use of them there. Naruto would have "fallen" for her confession, she'd mobilize them back in Konoha, and sneak of, if she was intending to go back with him. Either she didn't think Naruto actually would agree, or she had them there in case it failed. It's hard to see what she would have done had he said yes, but I think she was snipping the ties between herself and team 7 because her plans meant going off and betraying them--killing Sasuke. Her confession was cruel in the sense she was trying to convince Naruto otherwise on her feelings, and that she was lying. That hurts for someone who loves you, and I don't say he's wrong in being angry with her, but you cast Sakura in an overly villainous light and don't put yourself in HER shoes.

Imagine you were told that a person you love dearly has gotten way out of hand. The other villagers and your comrades have decided it was time to go after him and label him a traitor. Then, a person in your team tells you that you've been contributing to the pain of another dearly loved teammate. That kind of responsibility and guilt wears on you, and you want to release your teammate from the burden. You don't want them tied to that promise they made. So, you go and try to convince them that you are not tied to the traitor anymore, you don't want them bound by that promise of a lifetime, and it's a final thank you before you go off and commit and act that would forever destroy the team dynamic. You're going to go off and deal with the traitor yourself, so that Konoha, and most importantly, your beloved teammate doesn't have to. That's not conceited, it's desperate, and there is that bit of reckless ambition there. She KNEW Naruto couldn't let go of Sasuke, otherwise she would have mentioned that Konoha is out for Sasuke's warrant. She'd sell it to him in a way that's more honest, but instead she chooses that confession.

Is it right? I don't know, I think she could have gone about it a different way, but I don't think she's being as conceited and selfish about it as you say. I put myself in Naruto's shoes and I can see why he gets angry, I'm not arguing that, but I've also put myself in her shoes, and I can kind of see the logic behind it.

Yeah, and that's the point, isn't it? He did have his own reasons. And in doing what she did, she either didn't consider his feelings at all, or belittled his feelings in believing that he would question them just because she did.

I see exactly what she was doing. I'm not daft. And what she was doing is the whole reason I have a problem with it. With everything she was trying to accomplish, throwing in a shallow confession was completely unnecessary. And to do so as a way to encourage him to drop his feelings for Sasuke is demeaning. There is absolutely nothing else that she could have hoped to accomplish with that confession.

I'm not casting her in a villainous light. There is a difference between outright vindictive and simply inconsiderate. Like I said before, I still think she loves him. I know she did it for his own sake. But she went about it the wrong way. And if she truly meant what she said, then doing it the way she did degrades the act in and of itself. It was completely inappropriate, and it was not necessary. If he loves her, he trusts her. Why did she have to try to fool him? Why couldn't she be honest with him, telling him that her feelings are in conflict, too, but they have to remember the concerns of the village and of the rest of the ninja world. The only reason she could have possibly had for doing it the way she did was if she had some hope in her mind that she could make him change his mind. Even if it was to show her abandonment of her bond to Sasuke, it could have only been to the end of having him do the same by "his own" choice.

If it was anything else, if she knew that he wouldn't give up hope in Sasuke, then she would know that the confession was futile from the beginning, and she should have never done it. Not like that.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 01 April 2012 - 10:57 PM.

[Phantom_999]

I'm all cool.

I like your logic compared to several members. I wish I had your confidence. But I'll keep it 50% because we are not out dark yet. I just hope Kishi does not derail a possible Sasu/Kar pairing because clearly Sasuke has never hold any love for a female since his mother was alive. I hope the good Sasuke won't change Sakura's personality to part 1 and finally pry Hinata out of Naruto's arm and declared to Hinata that Naruto is her man *smirks evilly*

Thanks. And again Glad to have you on board.

I really don't know why NaruSaku fans insist on remaining in denial about this. It's stated in the exact same episode. "I'll tell him. After all, the fool is in love with me." I'm not saying that she didn't believe what she was saying on some level. But she did not confess because she was in love with him and just couldn't hold it in anymore. She went there, with everyone else (the lack of doing it in a private setting only reinforces this), specifically to convince him to stop chasing Sasuke because it was the village decision to kill him to maintain political good will. Yes, she did it to spare his feelings. And the only way she could think of doing it was to give him what he wanted all along. It wasn't to confess her love for him so much as it was to release him from his promise. She simply failed to account for his personal emotional investment in the whole thing.

Eventually, the confession will be done right, I'm certain of that. But let's be real, people. That confession had an ulterior motive behind it, and it was disingenuous. Naruto may love her, and she may love him even if she hasn't fully come to admit it yet. But he's not so stupid as to take bait like that. If he actually fell for that, then to me, it would compromise the integrity of the pairing altogether. If he really loves her, then he will not allow her confession to be during those circumstances. And if she really loves him, then she will realize it was wrong to do it the way that she did, and that he did not turn her down to hurt her. He turned her down because he cares about her and he wants her to be truthful to herself and to him.

I only disagree that she's not conscious of her feelings for Naruto cause if the evidence in the manga was any indication, she's shown that she cares for him very much and is completely honest in an intimate way. if it was only just a friend set of mind I would think she'd show more restraint with her feelings when interacting with him. and on that note I'd like to point out that friends DON'T feed each other, And the way she was hugging him after pain plus during her confession doesn't seem fake enough that she wasn't being honest with her feelings. Now, I understand your point that she was doing the wrong thing at the wrong time but saying she was only doing it out of duty undermines the impact of her development and intentions. You can think what she was doing was that cut and dry practical, or it can be seen as she confessed because she wanted Naruto to know her feelings to make up for burdening him with such a heavy promise and for what she was about to do because she wanted to convince her self that she DIDN'T have any attachment to Sasuke anymore to make it easier to kill him. She wanted Naruto to know that she was in love with him before he starts hating her for killing Sasuke. Sai said something like this of course. But that's just my views. Think of it what you will.

Edited by Phantom_999, 01 April 2012 - 11:57 PM.

[tricksie]

I would rather someone tell me that they hate me for lying to myself rather than have someone tell me that they love me because they want me to behave in a certain way. I would rather someone respond to my behavior with hate than deliver a contrived confession of love.

Do you remember what Naruto said? If Sasuke is to die, then he will die with him, because he will not let him be alone and without a friend when the village turns their back on him. Yes, I absolutely agree that he is deluding himself if he thinks he can bring Sasuke back and reform Team 7. But that's not what this is about anymore. It's about saving Sasuke from his hatred, letting him know that, no matter what, Naruto will always be his friend. And in that, he is not lying to himself. He has considered that Sasuke will die, and he has made a vow based specifically on that fact. When he said that to Sasuke, she should have realized her mistake. And if she did, then I believe her next confession will be proper.

Naruto has no hatred. That is the entire point. And if she thought that killing Sasuke herself was going to free him from his sorrows, she couldn't be more dense. The thought of Sakura killing Sasuke, or Sakura dying in the attempt, would only make things worse for him. He accepted all of the hatred for Sasuke because he wanted him to be redeemed, and he didn't care if that meant taking the shame. But he was direct about it. He did not plea to them with false promises of love or any equivalent thereto.

Um.... Naruto has no hatred? Check the manga again. That's why he had to go through that waterfall of truth. Because he had unresolved hatred in his heart.

While some of the above is true, it's not responding to any of my points or any of your previous arguments. And if you're not going to stay on point, then *claps hand likes a Vegas dealer* I'm out!

[Broken Figurine]

I don't care about the data books. By that same reasoning, it may be reasonable to give her the benefit of the doubt. But it is also reason for me to question her intentions. And let me put it this way: I would rather that my belief in the pairing is justified by the actions than have to play apologetics for the actions because I believe in the pairing. The first is a person with an endearment for the connection, but a knowledge of right and wrong. The other is a sycophant.




Yeah, and that's the point, isn't it? He did have his own reasons. And in doing what she did, she either didn't consider his feelings at all, or belittled his feelings in believing that he would question them just because she did.

I see exactly what she was doing. I'm not daft. And what she was doing is the whole reason I have a problem with it. With everything she was trying to accomplish, throwing in a shallow confession was completely unnecessary. And to do so as a way to encourage him to drop his feelings for Sasuke is demeaning. There is absolutely nothing else that she could have hoped to accomplish with that confession.

I'm not casting her in a villainous light. There is a difference between outright vindictive and simply inconsiderate. Like I said before, I still think she loves him. I know she did it for his own sake. But she went about it the wrong way. And if she truly meant what she said, then doing it the way she did degrades the act in and of itself. It was completely inappropriate, and it was not necessary. If he loves her, he trusts her. Why did she have to try to fool him? Why couldn't she be honest with him, telling him that her feelings are in conflict, too, but they have to remember the concerns of the village and of the rest of the ninja world. The only reason she could have possibly had for doing it the way she did was if she had some hope in her mind that she could make him change his mind. Even if it was to show her abandonment of her bond to Sasuke, it could have only been to the end of having him do the same by "his own" choice.

If it was anything else, if she knew that he wouldn't give up hope in Sasuke, then she would know that the confession was futile from the beginning, and she should have never done it. Not like that.

I see what you mean, I suppose just in the circumstances being what they were, I feel sorry for both of them XD Yeah, she was a bit inconsiderate, but like you I do think she loves him and I suppose was just desperate to have the issue resolved because Naruto is burdened by so much. I can't say for certain what was going through her mind when she gave that confession, but I do think she had good intentions with it. It certainly wasn't the best way of going about it. I don't think that Naruto "hates" her or anything as some people say she does, I think he was just angry about her dishonesty more than he was about the confession as a whole, really. He holds the team 7 bond in very high regard and knows her true feelings. I think it really shows that he does know her a lot better than maybe she knows herself, considering when she had the chance to inflict harm she couldn't. She kept trying to lie to herself, and since I do love both characters dearly maybe I just am conditioned to regard them in a better light, where I think even in that situation he's not thinking about his own hurt, but rather about the foolish thing Sakura's doing. He doesn't want her trying to hide and lie to herself, and accept him because it is the "right" thing to do in her mind or whatever. Maybe that's why his words were harsh, because the stressful situation and the implications that Sakura has stopped believing in him and in team seven.

Her whole plan was in the wrong, anyways, even without that confession. She couldn't take Sasuke on by herself. She would have gotten herself killed and subsequently burdened Naruto even further by her loss and the pain of having one friend responsible for the death of another. That could have been catastrophic if it did happen. The Konoha 11 would have had an even greater issue leaving Sasuke alone if he was responsible for the death of their teammate, and one that's pretty well-developed in relation to everyone else to boot. Just thinking about the what-if outcome is quite bad XD Thankfully her team, and Naruto, was there to help her out. But, she was going off of the possibility and again, I say the desperation of the situation, in the belief that even if it caused her great pain and even the loss of her life, she wanted Naruto to be able to move on from Sasuke because at that point, with everything looking dire, and considering Naruto just had to fight against Pain and everything, I can understand where the "inconsiderate" nature of her plan comes from. I just don't think he was that angry with HER as it may seem. More, like her, they were affected by the stress and emotional strain of every issue around them, and the fact that Sasuke is a touchy subject.