54216 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Oh god, durian is just awful. My punishment from my girlfriend. Sakura should do that to Naruto. But hell, anime Sakura food I rather eat. This food is god awful. Waiting for her now, but good god it's awful.

[rocci]

@ns4life
Whaatt??!!!! Durian is delicious. I want to get that punishment too
And congrats for the lap, I hope you make another lap, especially the parallel that kishi love.
Anyway I think it's better to read naruto in volume version.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

I dont like the idea that Sakura loves sasuke romantically after everything, whilst she has only begun to love Naruto. Plot device or not it's just getting silly at this point

 

Anyway nice post 4life

 

To be honest, I think most of us here hate it. Trust me, while I may seem logical and accepting of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke at this point through my posts, it actually makes me angry at times. Just the fact that Sasuke tried to kill her two times without hesitation or any real reason other than to be a kitten should just make her move on, it's ridiculous.  Now that doesn't mean I think she shouldn't care for Sasuke anymore, I just don't see how it should call for continued romantic love. There's just no logic. No logic at all.

 

The difference between us is that I'm not angry at Sakura for still loving Sasuke nor do I share this "Naruto deserves better" belief.  I'm angry over her feelings for Sasuke, not Sakura in general. It causes her character to suffer to some extent, but I know that'll change. She's already getting closer to moving on, considering she indirectly showed the audience she didn't trust Sasuke. Over time, I feel sympathy for Sakura rather than disappointment/contempt. She's so confused over her own feelings, and Sasuke's such a heartache for her. I do feel her pain, even if I don't understand it.  I also trust Kishimoto enough to finish off her CD by eventually having her let go of Sasuke, and realize she loves Naruto. The direction certainly points that way.

 

That said, it is an extremely irritating plot device, I cannot agree with you more.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

 

To be honest, I think most of us here hate it. Trust me, while I may seem logical and accepting of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke at this point through my posts, it actually makes me angry at times. Just the fact that Sasuke tried to kill her two times without hesitation or any real reason other than to be a kitten should just make her move on, it's ridiculous.  Now that doesn't mean I think she shouldn't care for Sasuke anymore, I just don't see how it should call for continued romantic love. There's just no logic. No logic at all.

 

The difference between us is that I'm not angry at Sakura for still loving Sasuke nor do I share this "Naruto deserves better" belief.  I'm angry over her feelings for Sasuke, not Sakura in general. It causes her character to suffer to some extent, but I know that'll change. She's already getting closer to moving on, considering she indirectly showed the audience she didn't trust Sasuke. Over time, I feel sympathy for Sakura rather than disappointment/contempt. She's so confused over her own feelings, and Sasuke's such a heartache for her. I do feel her pain, even if I don't understand it.  I also trust Kishimoto enough to finish off her CD by eventually having her let go of Sasuke, and realize she loves Naruto. The direction certainly points that way.

 

That said, it is an extremely irritating plot device, I cannot agree with you more.

 

I can see where you are coming from with your frustration. I personally haven't really felt angry about Sakura's feelings for Sasuke, it's always been something that I knew would play an integral part of her character and development, and for the longest time I had no idea that people actually hated her for it. I can't say I understand Sakura's confusion, or why it is so difficult for her to accept the person Sasuke really is, but I think she's getting there and I will certainly be glad when she does.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 04 October 2013 - 10:41 PM.

[rocci]

Sakura feeling = tobi/pain/naruto father identity.
That mean NS is very important pairing.

[Fairy Tail Fantard]

I've cross paths with him on tumblr , reblogged a couple of stuff but till this day he hasn't given me an answer.. I think he hates me . Though he is one of the Sakura haters and loves Hinata .

 

 

 

Well,i was refereeing to the page that IT came unexpected and i forgot to add ''around'',buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut if you've got a dirty mind it can be interpreted in a fascinating way...  

I must've made the mistake in the haste of writing -either was it the slip of the tongue or a slip of the finger...

 

 

 

I am glad that i am not the only one with a dirty mind here ..
 

 

Uuuuuuuum....has this person read the manga or watched the anime? I could swear that Hinata doesn't have a dream or Naruto stood up for her in her childhood.

He hates NS fans just because they have a different opinion than him. He's one of those fans that'll laugh and laugh when you make fun of Sakura, but the second you bash Hinata he gets all defensive and will make up some of the most unreal arguments ever.

 

As far as bashing the NS fanbase goes, I've seen people saying he bashed someone's brother who was deployed overseas and said he hoped he came home in a coffin just because he was a NS supporter. As far as I know this is just a rumor, but I don't know what to think about it. Regardless of your shipping differences, bashing someone like that is pretty low.

[HauntedCake]

So... is sakura going to love sasuke forever or will she grow up and see sasuke for what he really is (not past sasuke before academy)

 

Edit - we say she has to get past her feeling so there will be saku>sasu moments incoming ofc right?

Edited by HauntedCake, 04 October 2013 - 11:33 PM.

[morgaine4]

I realllllly want to try durian, you can make raw, vegan icecream with it!  I usually use really ripe frozen bananas to do that, and that works really well, but for some reason (I think it's the lack of fat) bananas melt really easily, and I've heard durian doesn't...so yeah, I want to try it.  But I'm lazy and haven't made my way to an Asian market.  Soon though!

 

 

 

Yeah, it made sense, Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

 

I guess it's a matter of perspective. From my point of view I never got the impression that Sakura wouldn't continue on being a medic. The topic not coming up more often, to me, is just because Kishi focuses more on Naruto and Sasuke. But just because it wasn't a recurring theme it didn't mean it wouldn't happen. Remember that Kishi has a tendency to place certain story elements and then leave them be for a long time only to revive them when he feels they fit the story.

 

And to be technical Sakura wasn't really demanding that Naruto respects her career as a medic, she was demanding that he believed in her strength and ability to fight. Naruto already knew Sakura would make a great medic, but as establish they shouldn't be involved at the center of fights if they don't have the diamond seal. That moment was more to establish that Sakura had achieved a new level of skill that would allow her to fight with him, and Naruto being happy and proud that she had come even further with her abilities.

 

Oh I totally agree that that sort of analysis is a matter of perspective.

 

For me, though the writing for Sakura contributed to my opinion, a more defining factor was the pattern established with how Kishi presented women post relationships.  Yes it bothered me that since the Chiyo-Gaara arc we only had little handouts that focused on Sakura in a professional capacity (the fact that she was training her mind, that we saw her work with Shikamaru to try to decipher what Jiraiya meant, that we we saw brief glimpses of Sakura leading the hospital during the Pain Invasion, then act in Tsunade's stead when Naruto turned Kyuubi).  It bothered me that we didn't see more, but I'm also a weirdo who likes to search for things when reading, who really enjoys subtle threads so while I understand many of the criticisms regarding the writing for Sakura, by enlarge I always appreciated that Kishi's threads for Sakura tended to be understated, hard to find.

 

Like I said, my primary concern wasn't with the way Kishi wrote Naruto or Sakura specifically, as much as it was the way women post-relationships were presented --particularly Kushina and Kurenai.

 

Kushina is Naruto's mother, she was strong enough and distinguished enough from the Uzumaki-chakra-superstars to be chosen as the Kyuubi's next Jinchuriki at a particularly young age, she wanted to be the first female Hokage, and that apparently Naruto's jutsu style/approach is very much like hers, yet when we got the chance to meet her so much of her story was about Minato/her relationship with Minato and really ultimately about NS.  Don't get me wrong, to a large extent I understand why this happened, and I do know that it makes sense that Naruto would want some understanding of his parents' relationship etc etc but it always stood out to me that we never found out why she chose not to (try to) become Hokage (was it just because of her relationship with Minato, was it because he "outbid" her?), and we saw very little of her own prowess (what did she do during the 3rd Shinobi World War?).  I guess it wasn't about the details that were included, so much as it was about the details that weren't included; for me, it just painted a picture that once Kushina realized her feelings for Minato/they became a couple, her individuals self became irrelevant.  And I understand that often love results in one putting that person above oneself in many ways, but that doesn't have to be done or presented in such a way that someone loses his or --particularly in the case of Kishi's writing (and several, but not all, cultures in general)-- HER individuality.

 

Then we have Kurenai, now though the details with Kurenai were a bit different (though not all that different, after all why don't we have Kushina's student(s) involved in Naruto's life, her mentor, one of her friends) I think it ultimately had a similar effect.  Now, I've said before that it often seems that as written it often seems that we're supposed to forget that Asuma and Kurenai's child is Kurenai's child as much as it is Asuma's, and I know that it's pretty harsh to say but ultimately in this respect it comes down to Kishi's negligence in terms of portraying any real bonds within Team 8.  Yes Asuma is the one who is deceased, and he did ask Shikamaru to mentor his child, so it makes sense that Shikamaru would be particularly aware of Kurenai and the child's well-being, but what doesn't make sense is that none of her students are as concerned for her well-being and safety.  In part 1, Kurenai seemed to have taken a particular interest in Hinata, the insinuation I got was that while Hinata had a hard time bonding with her own father, Kurenai had taken the effort to pay attention to her and foster her.  And we also have Kiba, who perhaps due to the specifics of his clan, has always been shown to be a particularly protective person.  It always stood out to me as quite odd that he wasn't thinking of Kurenai's well-being.  I know that Shikamaru is a more important character than any of the Team 8 members, and that Kiba and Shino were both busy fighting with their clans, but a quick bit of dialogue between Shikamaru and one of Kurenai's students (don't worry, I'll check up on Kurenai and the baby), or a brief tag team in protecting them between Shikamaru and one of them could have changed my perspective quite a bit.  And because none of that was included, and the Kurenai-specific relationships were pushed into the background, it gave me the feeling that because this woman was with a man, her individual identity and relationships were pushed aside.

 

It's the above patterns that made me wary.

 

Regarding the notion that Naruto wasn't specifically showing his respect for Sakura as a medic that moment, I agree, it wasn't about her medical prowess; however, I think in the Western fandom we're wrong to try to separate Sakura the medic, from Sakura the fighting kunoichi as a whole.  Sakura's medical career will always be connected to her strength and career as a ninja, she isn't a ninja who is also a medic (though, this probably applies to someone like Ino), she isn't a medic who also happens to be a ninja, she is a combat-medical-ninja who is advanced enough in terms of her capabilities that she can ignore several established rules.  And despite the established rules, Naruto isn't one to follow rules and I'm not sure that he's necessarily aware of those rule (he's probably been taught, but would he remember?), and while that moment was written to bring about Sakura's power up, it also served to to demonstrate that Sakura would no longer allow Naruto to shoulder all these burdens, that she wouldn't allow him to protect her any longer.  I loved the power up that Sakura was given, but that's an entirely separate issue from what it established in terms of the relationship between Naruto and Sakura --and it established something that I liked, that I hadn't seen before-- that Sakura wouldn't allow herself to be pushed in the background, and that a relationship with Naruto (hopefully) wouldn't result in Sakura losing her individual identity in favor of her significant other's (again, I don't have an issue when a woman or man chooses to let of of zher career in favor of being a full time parent, or in favor of supporting a significant other's career, but with Sakura specifically it was important that she wasn't written in this manner because I adore how far she's come since becoming a combat-medical-ninja, and I love how far she still could go from establishing better psychiatric methods, to figuring out medical applications of seals).

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

So... is sakura going to love sasuke forever or will she grow up and see sasuke for what he really is (not past sasuke before academy)

 

Edit - we say she has to get past her feeling so there will be saku>sasu moments incoming ofc right?

She already know who Sasuke really is and if she still loves Sasuke or loves Naruto now we cant tell due to the fact he is hiding her feelings to maintain a suspense.

The fact is that, if he shows she still loves Sasuke, she will get bashed 100% sure and people will be upset.
i'm really expecting how kishi will write himself out of this corner.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 October 2013 - 12:57 AM.

[redragon88]

@morgaine4

 

I think when it comes to any character it all boils down to how important the author wants them to be in the story and if they further serve a purpose that it's needed to be expanded.

 

I understand that you would want Kushina, Kurenai, or someone else to have had more expantion on them, but you have to remember that not everyone is capable of constructing the same ideas in their heads when creating a story. If a character remains unimportant it's not because Kishi thinks they have less worth or anything, but because he imagines other ideas he wants to incorporate in the story.

 

Sakura was never at risk of loosing her individuality for getting together with Naruto because she has main character priviliges. Sometimes is that simple.

[morgaine4]

That's a matter of opinion.  I couldn't care less about Kurenai being treated as a full character (though I think it hurt Team 8 as a whole), and while I think it's ridiculous that we have so much information about the hero's father but the most we know about his mother is that she had some similarities to the hero and heroine and some details about her relationship with the hero's father, ultimately it didn't bother me.  These two examples, however, established a precedent as to how Kishi might write females who are in relationships (and frankly, the bar wasn't set very high before reading these two examples considering just how male-centric the manga is), and it wasn't until 631 that I saw evidence based on Kishi's writing that Sakura's individual identity wouldn't be erased.  Sakura is the heroine, she's supposed to be a main character, but she's often treated as an afterthought, she's often given less focus than say Shikamaru who is supposed to be a less important character than she is (don't get me wrong, I like Shikamaru), so until I was a bit confident that she wouldn't be turned into nothing more than pairing fodder, I wasn't ready/willing to ship her.  To be honest/fair, I'm not a romantic person at all, I'm quite picky about fictional romantic relationship (and usually only ship based on head-canons); though there are a few exceptions, it usually takes a while for me to "ship" romantic relationships even with relationships that I like/don't dislike.

[redragon88]

@morgaine4

 

Well, as you said it's a matter of opinion. You said yourself that it might've established a precedent, might is the important word here. It could've all just been an unfortunate coincidence based on how the story developed.

 

That's to say Kishi unintentionally gave you a wrong impression where he didn't mean to, but the misunderstanding was cleared because of what happened in 631.

[deviouslyChaotic]

NS4Life,

Finally got around to reading your LAP. Well done! It was really well constructed and brought up great points which were backed up by undeniable evidence. It was an enjoyable read :). I might follow you on Tumblr, but I'm not sure yet because I wanted to keep my Tumblr private since it's slightly personal, but maybe I'll make an exception and follow you regardless. Or maybe I'll make a different Tumblr that strictly focuses on NS... I don't know yet; I'm still debating. Haha, anyway, keep up the good work. 

[Strangelove]

Before I post something else, here's a question.

At what point was the moment of "Abandon ship?" Even if you stay on the ship, still name a point that gives you that vibe.

 

Uhm I abandoned ship somewhere between chapter 10 of the manga I believe. That is when I got on board the NS ship.

[morgaine4]

reddragon88, it was unintentional for sure.  I think I do need to clarify something though, prior to 631 I wasn't anti NS (I liked NS well enough, I just didn't ship them), nor was I thinking about the reasons I wasn't shipping NS, it was more like that exchange in 631 was big enough to make me like the pair as a romantic couple and upon reflecting why that exchange effected me I realized that it was partially because it countered a precedent that had been set earlier, among other things.  Other reasons that moment stood out to me is the fact that Sakura was actively 'demanding' recognition, Naruto and Sakura were facing each other, talking to each other, and because it happened after Sakura's speech (in which she spoke for Naruto without needing to consult him --which is important because while Shikamaru's speech came after Sakura's and was extremely similar one could argue that he indirectly consulted Sakura by gaining inspiration from her speech, but that's another topic), and after their interaction with Minato (both of these things set the mood), it was essentially an example of how they will interact with each other as a couple and I actually liked that (which is strange, because it doesn't happen often...there's Phedre and Joscelin, Parker and Hardison, Nala and Simba, Roja and Rishikumar, but no other couple that I'd say I "ship" even if I like the couple).  I simply examined the reasons why that exchange was important to me after the fact.

[TouKen4Life3g]

@ns4life
Whaatt??!!!! Durian is delicious. I want to get that punishment too
And congrats for the lap, I hope you make another lap, especially the parallel that kishi love.
Anyway I think it's better to read naruto in volume version.

Well, fine. Take it. Lol.

 

Thank you. I will make another one, but not too soon. Though I could open up Q&A time. Not sure how that works on tumblr, but I have seen others doing it.

 

So... is sakura going to love sasuke forever or will she grow up and see sasuke for what he really is (not past sasuke before academy)

 

Edit - we say she has to get past her feeling so there will be saku>sasu moments incoming ofc right?

Well yeah, we need a conclusion. Obviously that 635 is begging the question, what do you truly feel now. It's like when you ask the person if he/she truly love that person and he/she will look puzzled and say yes, of course, but in a questionable tone. That will tell you that she's not really saying it with no drawbacks.

 

NS4Life,

Finally got around to reading your LAP. Well done! It was really well constructed and brought up great points which were backed up by undeniable evidence. It was an enjoyable read :). I might follow you on Tumblr, but I'm not sure yet because I wanted to keep my Tumblr private since it's slightly personal, but maybe I'll make an exception and follow you regardless. Or maybe I'll make a different Tumblr that strictly focuses on NS... I don't know yet; I'm still debating. Haha, anyway, keep up the good work. 

Thank you.

 

Up to you to decide. Not going to force. Just glad to be part of it. What reblog do? Lol.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 05 October 2013 - 04:08 AM.

[deviouslyChaotic]

Thank you.

 

Up to you to decide. Not going to force. Just glad to be part of it. What reblog do? Lol.

You're welcome!

Reblog is a feature that allows other people to blog your post on their own Tumblr. For example, if I were to reblog something from you, your post would then show up on my Tumblr as well on my followers' respective dashboards (don't worry, Tumblr automatically sources from where someone reblogged a certain post, so credit is not lost). Think of it as someone showing off your post for others to see. When someone reblogs a post, all of said person's followers see that post as well and they could in turn reblog i if they want. It's like a big chain and is a great way for posts to gain publicity as well as popularity.

 

kitten it, I just sucked it up and followed you anyway. Just, if you find out which one is my Tumblr, don't tell anyone. It's not that personal [at all], but still I want to keep it a little private, haha .

[TouKen4Life3g]

You're welcome!

Reblog is a feature that allows other people to blog your post on their own Tumblr. For example, if I were to reblog something from you, your post would then show up on my Tumblr as well on my followers' respective dashboards (don't worry, Tumblr automatically sources from where someone reblogged a certain post, so credit is not lost). Think of it as someone showing off your post for others to see. When someone reblogs a post, all of said person's followers see that post as well and they could in turn reblog i if they want. It's like a big chain and is a great way for posts to gain publicity as well as popularity.

 

kitten it, I just sucked it up and followed you anyway. Just, if you find out which one is my Tumblr, don't tell anyone. It's not that personal [at all], but still I want to keep it a little private, haha .

Noted.

 

Thanks for the help. Did I do something to make you follow me? Lol. I just say it's cool and bam. Lol.

[deviouslyChaotic]

Noted.

 

Thanks for the help. Did I do something to make you follow me? Lol. I just say it's cool and bam. Lol.

Hah, you're welcome. Well, you always have great posts that I enjoy so I figured I wanted to be aware/notified whenever you made a new post or reblogged any cool NS theories/NS stuff in general and whatnot. That and I follow 0 Naruto/NS blogs (I don't know why I don't??) so I figured eh why not. Might as well. 

Also a future tip: You can blacklist tags. For example if you're following someone who reblogs a lot of stuff you don't like, you can always blacklist the tag (though you need to download tumblr savior to do it). For example, if someone is posting a lot of Hinata and you don't want that clogging up your dash, you can blacklist the tag "Hinata" which results in you not being able to see any posts tagged under that particular tag.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Hah, you're welcome. Well, you always have great posts that I enjoy so I figured I wanted to be aware/notified whenever you made a new post or reblogged any cool NS theories/NS stuff in general and whatnot. That and I follow 0 Naruto/NS blogs (I don't know why I don't??) so I figured eh why not. Might as well. 

Also a future tip: You can blacklist tags. For example if you're following someone who reblogs a lot of stuff you don't like, you can always blacklist the tag (though you need to download tumblr savior to do it). For example, if someone is posting a lot of Hinata and you don't want that clogging up your dash, you can blacklist the tag "Hinata" which results in you not being able to see any posts tagged under that particular tag.

Oh ok. Thanks for the heads up on the blacklist. Also, I understand what you mean but I just follow that I have made friends in here or elsewhere, not because they just share same interest. I respect them, but got to know a person first before anything else. Thanks for telling me. :)