1876 replies to this topic

[Dreamer]

remember when you need fuzzy math vote republican =^__^=

Mitch Mcconnel says bush tax cuts dont need to be payed for and dont affect defecit

I laughed, I laughed hard because honestly Id love to know what these politicans are smoking so I could market it and make a fortune.

and using our tax dollars as a wrapper.

[catsi563]

I hear ya brother, I hear ya.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Hey, I agree with you dude. As far as I know, Obama hasn't done anything good since he's been elected.

Umm...what?

As much as I'm not too crazy about him, you simply can not be serious with such an ignorant statement. And I'm not trying to be mean, but that really was a statement that shows you are completely ignorant of what is going on around you.


What Obama has done since he came into office:

1) Took over student loans from banks, with the profits going to help poorer students.
2) Raise the cafe standards to 35 MPG in 6 years
3) Lowered the standards for certain air pollutants
4) Negotiated a nuclear arms reduction treaty with Russia
5) Health bill gets 30 million people insured.
6) Regulated airlines so they can't just leave you on the tarmac all your life.
7) Several countries, including Ukraine, Mexico and Canada, declared their intention to give up highly enriched uranium as a step toward making it harder for terrorist groups or criminal gangs to steal or acquire a key ingredient in the making of atomic weapons. Russia and the U.S. signed a deal to dispose of tons of weapons-grade plutonium, although that won't start for eight years.
8)Began a plan to increase revenues from oil and other interior leases

Here are some older stuff

1. Signed orders closing Guantanamo Bay, prevented new entrants.
2. Outlawed our policy of torture, extraordinary rendition and secret CIA prisons outside the US.
3. Signed 709 b stimulus package, housing plan, working on budget
4. Working with EPA on mandatory emissions regulations
5. Worked with lawmakers to make fleet more energy efficient
5b. Created council on the automotive industry.
6. Lowering limits for mercury and lead in air/water
7. Added 4 million children to c-chips health care program
8. Created stringent lobbying restrictions
9. Eliminated practice of illegal signing statements
10. Opened up Stem Cell Research.
11. Stopped Bush's coastal oil drilling plan on the west coast
11a. Stopped Bush's oil drilling around Arches National Park
12. Signed order to withdrawal combat troops from Iraq
12a. Increased troops to defeat Bin Laden in Afghanistan
13. Instituted Wage freeze on those making 100k plus on white house staff.
14. Reversed executive orders Bush did in his final week, like taking wolves off endangered species list.
15. Agreed that Blackwater must leave Iraq and will not contract with them again.
17. Agreed with Iraqi government to stop using Blackwater security.
19. Signed Lilly Ledbetter equal pay act.
20. Signed Executive Order for Office of Gulf Coast Recovery
21. Put Iraq and Afghanistan spending in budget bill instead of emergency spending
22. New trailers for Katrina
23. New Enforcement Anti-trust
24. Abandoned ridiculous abm missile system in Poland that the Russians hated
26. Popular cash for clunkers takes millions of bad cars off the road, stimulates car industry
27. Stimulus program
28. Auto companies and banks are repaying loans.
29. Reviews records of mining safety after recent mining disaster.
30. Passed banking regulations
31. Cash for electronics and household machines program begins
32. Repealing 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'
33. Senate just passed regulation of derivatives.
34. Reviewing coastal oil drilling plan in light of new Gulf of Mexico oil spill.
34. Now Seeking immigration reform.

[catsi563]

lets not forget also that inspite of stiff and sometimes ridiculous republican resistance he has also passed

a stimulus bill that has begun the slow process of reinvigorating the economy, and creating more jobs then bush created in his entire 8 year run.

signed legistlation overhauling and fixing a broken health care system, that gave insurance companies nearly free reign to set their own premiums and deny coverage for anything they chose.

just recently signed a comprehensive financial reform bill that promises no further bail outs, and no more ""to big to fail"" banks, as well as establishing new rules to stop wall street execs from leaidng us into the same blakc hole that were now crawling out of.

Edited by catsi563, 16 July 2010 - 02:54 AM.

[Insurrection]

lets not forget also that inspite of stiff and sometimes ridiculous republican resistance he has also passed

a stimulus bill that has begun the slow process of reinvigorating the economy, and creating more jobs then bush created in his entire 8 year run.

signed legistlation overhauling and fixing a broken health care system, that gave insurance companies nearly free reign to set their own premiums and deny coverage for anything they chose.

just recently signed a comprehensive financial reform bill that promises no further bail outs, and no more ""to big to fail"" banks, as well as establishing new rules to stop wall street execs from leaidng us into the same blakc hole that were now crawling out of.

Republican Resistance, yes, it's like a spoiled brat throwing a tantrum for a year.

Stimulus, Banks haven't helped need financial reform, but job creation won't help without an industry to make them.

Health Care, they'll find a way around, and Insurance companies will squeze until the end, even harder in the near term.

Financial Reform yes, Comprehensive? Up to interpretation.

[catsi563]

the thing about it is that for some reason everyone expects him to hit only homeruns all the time.

but homeruns dont win ballgames. sure theyre flashy and nice, but its the singles and doubles that really set the plate and make those occasional homeruns special.

the finacial reform isnt super amazingly great no you're right there. BUT and this is the big but, its the first time someones had the courage to actualy put something in place agaisnt the monster that is wall street, and like the baseball analogy states its that single which sets the plate for better measures to come.

whats surprised me about the GOP resitance is that Ive expected it sure, but Ive NEVER EVER heard it become this vehement and bordering on violent. you have people who are doing everything shy of calling for armed rebellion against the man and all hes done is his job.

republcians are fighting every single measure the man puts forth and leaving no room what so ever for compromise of any sort. its like the once party of no has become the party of GOOD GOD HELL NO!!.

i trully dont understand it and if theyd just drop the rhetoric and begin cooperating they could make some real change.

[Insurrection]

Everyone is a generalization.

Walk-offs are cool

Not if the last guy who did it won 30 games in other words if it weren't for the push to remove depression era law in 1999 we wouldn't be here.

Don't get me in a rant about Historical context like the people on tv. Mean world syndrome is not good to have.

Because they haven't put down the playbook. Or button.

"It's not working!"
"Press it more!!!!"

If you want change don't expect it by electing the same people, Kabuki theatre and Old Guard tactics work until people actually see it.

[catsi563]

the problem though is that the last guy before Obama ((bush)) not only never hit a homerun, he never even showed up to bat, and the few times he did he didnt know how to hold the bat right.

the guy before him ((Clinton)) at least showed up at the game and actually hit not only for a respectable average, but for decent power too despite a number of spitballs throw at him.

Edited by catsi563, 16 July 2010 - 05:26 AM.

[Insurrection]

I thought his manager was caught stealing signs? (Drum sound)

Well Spitballs were banned in MLB in the start of the 20th century so need something darker and corrupting on all sides that lasted for decades if your going to make an arguement in Baseball terms. So let's see 90's...90's.... Ah the steriod era .

Edited by Insurrection, 16 July 2010 - 06:13 AM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

republcians are fighting every single measure the man puts forth and leaving no room what so ever for compromise of any sort. its like the once party of no has become the party of GOOD GOD HELL NO!!.

i trully dont understand it and if theyd just drop the rhetoric and begin cooperating they could make some real change.

What pisses me off *especially* right now is how the Republicans are literally blocking extending Unemployment Benefits. Right now my roommate can't even apply because the benefits are about to expire, while the Democrats try to get them extended. I just want to shout "Are you stupid!" for not allowing the benefits to be extended. So many people are unemployed right now, and you're just going to sit back on your fat-cat hunches and watch even more people fall into unemployed despair.

Seriously just pisses me off how Republicans are acting, and come November I hope people are smart enough to realize how childish they are being, and *not* vote them back into office...but then people voted Bush in twice though he cheated his way in the first time >.>. So I have little faith in the American public right now.

[Codus N]

I dunno if I should laugh or not with you guys comparing Obama's achievements to baseball. It's kinda funny but yet a very interesting kind of analogy.

[Dreamer]

I dunno if I should laugh or not with you guys comparing Obama's achievements to baseball. It's kinda funny but yet a very interesting kind of analogy.

It can't be helped.

[Nate River]

What pisses me off *especially* right now is how the Republicans are literally blocking extending Unemployment Benefits. Right now my roommate can't even apply because the benefits are about to expire, while the Democrats try to get them extended. I just want to shout "Are you stupid!" for not allowing the benefits to be extended. So many people are unemployed right now, and you're just going to sit back on your fat-cat hunches and watch even more people fall into unemployed despair.

Seriously just pisses me off how Republicans are acting, and come November I hope people are smart enough to realize how childish they are being, and *not* vote them back into office...but then people voted Bush in twice though he cheated his way in the first time >.>. So I have little faith in the American public right now.

This fight is really about pay-go.

Pelosi made a change to House rules that all new spending/tax cuts must be paid for by increases in revenue/cuts in spending elsewhere in the budget in a token attempt to control spending.

Well once the rule were passed, the Democrats have waived them repeatededly. In fact, I don't think they have yet to actually hold themselves to it. When the battle first started in March/April, Jim Bunning of Kentucky objected precisely on these grounds. The reason he did got lost in the outrage of the act itself. He wasn't opposing them per se, he wanted them "paid" for per house rules.

This time is no different. Republicans want the extension "paid for" and even suggested using unspent stimulus for doing so, rather than "new" spending. Democrats balked at this proposal.

I'm not advocating for or against anything here, simply stating the background of that fight. It's not simply been an absolute no.

If the Republicans take the house the first thing they should do is abandon pay-go. Hell, Pelosi should do it now. Everyone knows it a token gesture and everyone should know it's only going to be a partisan tool in which each party will convenietly invoke it when it suits them and abandon it when it doesn't. It's a farce.

The other question, long term, is going to be how long should they be extended for? In some cases, the benefits can last up to 99 weeks (nearly two years). There are plenty of reports of people turning down actual work in favor of staying on unemployment and one argument against continuing them is that very disincentive for some to work. Paul Krugman admits this exists, but poo-poo's it's effect, which is fine. I haven't taken Krugman seriously since 2002.

This kind of behavior was one reasons behind the welfare reform of the 1990's. What people were doing at the time was making the minimal effort required to stay on the doles, but never actually taking a job or working.

I don't know what percentage of people that they comprise at this point, but from an economic perspective it makes a certain amount sense. If you get say, $3,000 a month in benefits that will continue so long as you make, say, 5 applicantions a month, would you take a job that paid $2,500 or hell even $3,000 if you knew you'd keep getting benefits. Why work for the same amount of money your getting for not working? Many would never do such a thing as a matter of personal morality, but there are plenty who are willing to take this deal.

It'll be easy to say, so long as the job market sucks, but what happens when it no long does? There will be plenty of people still suffering long term unemployment. Is that fair to them? There will always be people like this. Should everyone get perpetual unemployment until they find a job in all cases?

I think they'll be voted in for the same reason the Democrats were voted in 2006. They aren't the party in power at a time where people think the country's headed in the wrong direction.

[Codus N]

Also, judging by your list, SB and catsi, Yeah, Obama has actually done pretty well, but the problem is the employment rates. The guy should find some way to crank it up. the only thing I disagree with him is his priorities. He put Health care before the financial reform. That was his biggest mistake, I think if he had put financials before health care, he would've been in better shape by now. Also, the guy already has a lot of international pressure on him already thanks to Bush's legacy. Financials, Palestine, N.Korea, Iran & Iraq, plus Al-qaeda. While the recovery process seems to be slow, he seems to be halfway there, according to Buffet.

To be honest, I can understand what you guys are feeling against the government. Y'see my country pre-SBY (current President of Indonesia) was in horrible shape. Not even our founding father's daughter could do anything. But after SBY (current President) took reign, things were looking slightly brighter and albeit he is slow & too careful, the patience actually pretty much paid off.

[catsi563]

Also, judging by your list, SB and catsi, Yeah, Obama has actually done pretty well, but the problem is the employment rates. The guy should find some way to crank it up

Actually his jobs stimulus bill is doing just that. hes pushing for green jobs and the like to be created and just broke ground on a new factory that creates batteries for electric cars. this alone created jobs for the community where the factory is going up.

let me cover one thing in regard to unemployment benefits. Ive been on unemployment and I can tell you one simple fact that is badly misrepresented by those who say that the benefits should not be extended.

its first the ridiculous notion that people are on unemployemnt because they want to be. this is factually untrue. they are on unemployement because they have to be, the benefits are the only thing keeping the rent/mortgage paid and food on the table.

second the notion that it keeps people from searching for jobs. again factually untrue and completely out of context. When i was on unemployment I could have easilly taken a job at mcdonalds or some such, but then I would have guranteed lost my apartment and been out on the streets.

simply put the notion that is that there is no incentive to work, this is untrue. I wanted to work, but I needed a job that could pay a commiserate salarie that would cover my expenses. A part time job flipping burgers would not have done this even if i got three of them which would be a ridiculous notion on its face.

even worse is the notion put forward that there are jobs out there to be had if people want them> Again this is factually untrue. recent statistics show that theyre are currently 6 applicants for every open job position. this by the way includes so called part time and menial jobs which those who want to stop the benefits say are what everyone should be getting.

recently a story aired on msnbc that showed a woman who was laid off. she went and applied at a local mcdonalds to do part time work to supplement her income. She was turned down and told and I quote "we have no openings"

when i was on unemployemnt after being laid off, I searched daily for jobs even looked out of state. I found zero jobs available. When I went to temp comanies I found squat.

and you know the kicker? when I moved to florida hoping for a fresh start I went to 6 different temp agencies looking for work.

i was told by all 6 temp agencies and i quote "Dont call us well call you." I have never had a temp agency tell me not to call them, they always told me call every day for work. but I had 6 including industry leaders Manpower and Adecco tell me not to call.

I wanted to work and did all i could to find work while on unemployment. But simply put the unemployment was the better option everytime, it paid my rent, and brought me food and kept me safe. it in no way shape or form kept em from working, the lack of appropriate paying jobs did that.

Edited by catsi563, 16 July 2010 - 07:03 PM.

[Strangelove]

Not to mention that they want to extend unemployment benefits, considering come November all of Congress will be seeking for unemployment benefits.

Edited by Strangelove, 17 July 2010 - 03:48 AM.

[Nick Soapdish]

This fight is really about pay-go.

Pelosi made a change to House rules that all new spending/tax cuts must be paid for by increases in revenue/cuts in spending elsewhere in the budget in a token attempt to control spending.

Well once the rule were passed, the Democrats have waived them repeatededly. In fact, I don't think they have yet to actually hold themselves to it. When the battle first started in March/April, Jim Bunning of Kentucky objected precisely on these grounds. The reason he did got lost in the outrage of the act itself. He wasn't opposing them per se, he wanted them "paid" for per house rules.

This time is no different. Republicans want the extension "paid for" and even suggested using unspent stimulus for doing so, rather than "new" spending. Democrats balked at this proposal.

I'd be more inclined to believe that if the Senate hadn't just passed a bill for war spending that cost $58.8 billion (67-28, including McConnell) only to balk at a bill that cost $34 billion. Social programs are almost never popular with Republicans. And bringing up Jim Bunning? Even his Republican colleagues in the Senate were saying that he's bad for America. He's basically been an empty chair ever since he got there so I'm kinda surprised that he bothered to do anything, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was because he was ticked at the Republicans (especially McConnell) for not giving him open-ended support for another term.

The other question, long term, is going to be how long should they be extended for? In some cases, the benefits can last up to 99 weeks (nearly two years). There are plenty of reports of people turning down actual work in favor of staying on unemployment and one argument against continuing them is that very disincentive for some to work. Paul Krugman admits this exists, but poo-poo's it's effect, which is fine. I haven't taken Krugman seriously since 2002.

This kind of behavior was one reasons behind the welfare reform of the 1990's. What people were doing at the time was making the minimal effort required to stay on the doles, but never actually taking a job or working.

I don't know what percentage of people that they comprise at this point, but from an economic perspective it makes a certain amount sense. If you get say, $3,000 a month in benefits that will continue so long as you make, say, 5 applicantions a month, would you take a job that paid $2,500 or hell even $3,000 if you knew you'd keep getting benefits. Why work for the same amount of money your getting for not working? Many would never do such a thing as a matter of personal morality, but there are plenty who are willing to take this deal.

It'll be easy to say, so long as the job market sucks, but what happens when it no long does? There will be plenty of people still suffering long term unemployment. Is that fair to them? There will always be people like this. Should everyone get perpetual unemployment until they find a job in all cases?

I think they'll be voted in for the same reason the Democrats were voted in 2006. They aren't the party in power at a time where people think the country's headed in the wrong direction.

I don't really trust the allegorical accounts, but mine have run in the opposite direction. I know people that have been applying for 10 jobs a day and for months without getting a hit. Our office recently had an opening for a short-time receptionist position without any benefits and we got over 300 applicants. As it turned out, we lost the funding and couldn't hire any of them.

I don't know how many applications you need to make in order to keep unemployment, but if you're a single person w/o dependents getting $2500 a month, you're a resident of Massachusetts. (Some states allow more for those with dependents.) The maximum weekly rate for Massachusetts is $653. If you're getting $3000 a month, it's because you have kids. The average unemployment benefit is under $300 a week.

I know that Tom Corbett talked to a business owner that can't get employees because they'd all rather work unemployment, but he's probably getting a bunch of calls for that business owner's name right now because there's a huge gap between job openings and people looking for work - 3.2 million job openings vs. 15 million unemployed, plus another 2 million that are underemployed.

[Strangelove]

Soooo....Jan 07 had more job openings than Jan 2010...

Im sorry but who was running the country in January of 2007 because i really want him or her back in office to deal with a crisis in which he help caused...

Edited by Strangelove, 17 July 2010 - 05:17 AM.

[Codus N]

Actually his jobs stimulus bill is doing just that. hes pushing for green jobs and the like to be created and just broke ground on a new factory that creates batteries for electric cars. this alone created jobs for the community where the factory is going up.

let me cover one thing in regard to unemployment benefits. Ive been on unemployment and I can tell you one simple fact that is badly misrepresented by those who say that the benefits should not be extended.

its first the ridiculous notion that people are on unemployemnt because they want to be. this is factually untrue. they are on unemployement because they have to be, the benefits are the only thing keeping the rent/mortgage paid and food on the table.

second the notion that it keeps people from searching for jobs. again factually untrue and completely out of context. When i was on unemployment I could have easilly taken a job at mcdonalds or some such, but then I would have guranteed lost my apartment and been out on the streets.

simply put the notion that is that there is no incentive to work, this is untrue. I wanted to work, but I needed a job that could pay a commiserate salarie that would cover my expenses. A part time job flipping burgers would not have done this even if i got three of them which would be a ridiculous notion on its face.

even worse is the notion put forward that there are jobs out there to be had if people want them> Again this is factually untrue. recent statistics show that theyre are currently 6 applicants for every open job position. this by the way includes so called part time and menial jobs which those who want to stop the benefits say are what everyone should be getting.

recently a story aired on msnbc that showed a woman who was laid off. she went and applied at a local mcdonalds to do part time work to supplement her income. She was turned down and told and I quote "we have no openings"

when i was on unemployemnt after being laid off, I searched daily for jobs even looked out of state. I found zero jobs available. When I went to temp comanies I found squat.

and you know the kicker? when I moved to florida hoping for a fresh start I went to 6 different temp agencies looking for work.

i was told by all 6 temp agencies and i quote "Dont call us well call you." I have never had a temp agency tell me not to call them, they always told me call every day for work. but I had 6 including industry leaders Manpower and Adecco tell me not to call.

I wanted to work and did all i could to find work while on unemployment. But simply put the unemployment was the better option everytime, it paid my rent, and brought me food and kept me safe. it in no way shape or form kept em from working, the lack of appropriate paying jobs did that.

Referring to my earlier post, when I said I was talking about my current president, he could do something that Obama couldn't. Keeping the public's patience. The reason why he could do that is because my president has great support from influential figures in the grass-roots.

America? you guys are controlled by big fatass corporate businessmen. This reminds me of Fareed Zakaria's analysis of political society in America. America as of now, are being controlled by big corporate figures instead of scholar figures. Reason why? corporate figures practically control every economical aspect of American citizen's lives, which is the thing they care about most when choosing governments. It's all thanks to Reaganomics. Now you guys have to rely on the big guns to keep the economy moving forward.

But mine does not. We have a tight leash on corporate figures thanks to the President's very careful picking of economical positions. (This is where his careful personality comes in handy) But that doesn't mean we're socialists in terms of economy. We actually have a free-market minded approach combined in harmony with controlled market approach. This is thanks to the President & VP being representatives of each side of the market approach.

Now, why am I saying all this? my point is, it's because you guys don't have any influential figures in the grass-roots that could change the political game in DC. Scholars, Economics, NPO's etc.... you guys got the Economics but you don't have them thinking like the grass-roots.

You guys would surely have prolonged patience if Obama had grass-roots figures to keep the patience & influence/assure you of the economic situation. But the requirements for this is that the figures would have to be in the grass-roots' eyes for a long time. Scholars in my country has been given a place among them since a decade ago, that's why their opinions still matters a lot to them. If the scholars say yes to the government, then the grass-roots would say yes as well. This is why Scholars are far more important than politicians or economics.

Another reason why scholars are very powerful within the grass-roots is thanks to the media. You guys NEVER quote scholars' opinion in papers. You only quote the politicians. So far, everytime I read stuff about U.S politics, I practically never see anything from the scholars' take on political matters. Scholars are considered neutral, that's why they need a lot of exposure to beat the big fatass corporations. Even if they did get quoted, your media only seems to pit dems vs reps and have the scholars playing referee instead of being a 3rd fighter in the ring to beat the crap out of them.

So mark my words, guys. American political society will be destroyed soon if this is not fixed.

Edited by Newkerz, 17 July 2010 - 06:15 AM.

[Strangelove]

Well...if a scholar wants to speak about politics that scholar can speak about politics, the thing is that American media isn't like before where you had some form of neutrality, the biggest channel it has is Fox News and no one has accused them of being neutral..MSNBC and CNN are exactly the same thing that FOX News is, of course CNN tries very hard to sound neutral but everyone knows that it isn't.

You know what i would love to see happening, for the United States to remove all its troops from around the world, and put them in Afghanistan to fight the war. That it leaves the UN to their own defenses and see how quickly their organization would collapse, to no longer lend any money to the IMF and leave those European governments to the mercy of their own people.