
The Great NaruSaku Debate Thread!
#921
Posted 02 September 2007 - 09:08 PM
Thats exactly how I feel aswell.
The main argument was that:
When Hinata confesses it will make a huge impact on Naruto because he has never been loved before.
I seriously doubt Kishi would simply throw away the development of NaruSaku at that point and Naruto would drop all his feelings for Hinata's sake.

#922
Posted 02 September 2007 - 09:13 PM
*dies*
Can't... breathe...laughing... too much... X°°°°°°DDD
Man, we are so lucky we have our NaruHina buddies to show us what's beneath every damn line drawn by kishi! Thanks NaruHina fans!! I pray thee to keep showing us the great light of TRUTH! *o*
*starts laughing again*

#923
Posted 02 September 2007 - 10:00 PM
That part was really pathetic.
To interpret something like that is laughable.

#924
Posted 02 September 2007 - 11:47 PM
True.
They are all really relying on Hinata's confession to Naruto.
He'll take it into consideration but he won't go leaping into her arms.
Another pretty difficult argument I'm usually faced with is
"Well Sakura still loves Sasuke and theirs no proof that she has stopped"
One SasuSaka fan spent ages arguing with me that its 'true love'
I personally believe it has always been more of a crush.
then they say
" If it's not true love why would she also be willing to betray her village for him then?"
Ask where there is proof that she still cares about Sasuke romantically?
Surely, there is some proof of romantic connection after over 100 chapters if it still exists.
They may try to say there's no point on screen where Sakura gives up on Sasuke and if Naruto's and Hinata's feelings stay the same, so can hers.
Except that:
1. Naruto and Hinata are both shown still having those feelings in Part II. And Hinata has barely been seen in it.
2. There is a point where Sakura gives up on Sasuke. Chapter 236, page 13. Sakura is looking out the window telling Naruto it's alright. It does seem she is giving up on him. Naruto cheers her up and makes her believe Sasuke can come back. But she isn't thinking of Sasuke exclusively then. She's looking at Naruto's wounds and thinking of him too. This suggests the Team 7 bond taking over the romance. People will argue. It is true that it's open to interruptation and not 100% certain. But just tell them if they want to prove you wrong, show evidence of Sakurra carrying over that romantic connection to Part II.
Temari thought Naruto is annoying and TenTen thought he was a jerk, and both said that they were "cute/hot" and it's not mistreatment, but Hinata was the only girl who saw through Naruto's cliche' attitude. Also, in SAKURA'S case it seems like a bro/sis relationship:
Naruto does something annoying, Sakura gets mad easily, and feels like she wants to beat him up, and she nags him of what not to do, sounds like a sister to me. Yes Hinata has issues, but Naruto's the reason why she's trying to change that, if NaruHina was canon, it will help her loose that low-confidence. Besides do you think it would be THAT easy for Sakura to forget about Sasuke and go for Naruto just like that, after all she's been through? Naruto may still love her, but Sakura's feelings for Sasuke is interfering for NaruSaku to be canon
1. Sakura seems to have the relationship with Naruto that Shikaku has with his wife. Incidently, I think this is the only time love is talked about in Naruto (not counting fangirlism).
2. People who rely on others for their self-confidence still have issues and need more help.
3. Refer to my post above.
This is pretty pathetic imo:
TenTen was a whole year ahead of Naruto. How do we know she didn't mistreat Naruto before the manga?
Temari was from a whole other country she didn't have a reason to be mistreat him. The Kyuubi didn't attack Suna, it attacked Konoha. Although that didn\'t stop her from yelling at him..
agree. I would like it very much if Hinata learn that she doesn't always have to depend on Naruto. But not very many people change instantly. It even took three people [a.k.a. Sasuke, Naruto, and Ino] to show Sakura that she has to change.
I doubt that anyone will replace Naruto as a love-interest for Hinata.
MO considering Hinata's lack of apperance in the manga I'd say NaruHina has done pretty good.
He wore a very similar expression to the one he gave Sakura in part two not long after that one, when he was remembering the chuunin exams. Here, let's do a side by side comparison:
[Inserts pic of Naruto saying: "
A Chuunin Exam? Brings back memories (smiles)"
ame small smile, same slightly narrowed eyes, slightly different angle. I wonder what he’s thinking? "The chuunin exams... Back then, I actually saw Hinata fairly often. Those were the days..." Maybe.
in the interruption we learn from Sai that "a true friend helps the other in a moment of need" . Once again, a comedic scene, and this time the detonator to it happens to be Sasuke, not romantic feelings for each other and in fact it also give Kishi a chance of making us laugh at the expense of Naruto's stupidity.
So is Naruto should be paired with Sakura because he likes her and Sakura doesn't like Naruto back.
you think since because Naruto likes Sakura and has since the beginning of the manga he can't change is mind about whom he likes.
If that is the case you forget that Hinata has liked Naruto since her apperance.
And the majority of NaruSaku fans I stumble across are mostly for Naruto's feelings while ignoring any that Sakura still might have.
This is a different person. Its 3v1 at the moment. If they find out you like NaruSaku they are all over you. they told me "We will defeat those NaruSaku fans with our NaruHina-awsomeness"
"To the honor of pure deep love that makes most sense! For NaruHina!"
I lol'd.
That manifesto is amazing and I haven't even finished it yet.
1. Because no significant events took place to the NaruTen relationship before her appearance in the manga. So, her actions towards him are likely new (because they just met) or are the same before the manga started.
2. Temari was from a different country. So, any interaction with him would be a moot point since she would not have been a part of his being shunned by the village.
3. Yeah, NaruHina has done real good recently. I mean even though they were in the same sub-team, they had almost no reaction. Also, the revelation of the Kyuubi provoked no response from hinata like it did Sakura.
4. Because Naruto couldn't have remembered anything else about the Chunin Exams. Getting everyone not in his team to respect him. Making a connection with Neji. Meeting Jiraya. Making a connection with Gaara. Losing the Third/learning what being a Hokage means (if you want to go bittersweet). Or getting Sasuke's respect.
Naruto couldn't think about any of these or the combination of these and Hinata. Yeah, he just thought about Hinata despite no eivdence of him ever showing favortism of her over any of the other Kohana 12 (not counting scenes she was in or directly tied to).
5. I have no idea what they are talking about. The feeding scene? Why is Naruto stupid? Because Sai fed him? Because he thought Sakura was flirting with him? That look on her face said she was.
And it could have been the determination he showed that made her decide that. Or the fact that he said THEY were. They're in this thing together.
But it should be pointed out, that before offering to feed him, the last thing she thought about was Naruto's smiling face. Not a longing vision of Sasuke.
But I really don't understand the person's point here, so then is my guessing at what they mean and my counters to it.
6. Sure he can. But what does Hinata have to offer Naruto that Sakura can't?
Love? Tenderness? Sai himself said Sakura can be very gentle with Naruto.
Understanding? And exactly does Hinata understand Naruto better than Sakura?
She wasn't mean to him as a kid? So? She was no different than many of the kids in action. She did nothing. his pain was lonliness and being ignored. For what it matters, she did the same thing as the other children, even if the reason was different. She didn't help him then or has a special connection with him now because she saw a part of his pain.
So what is it that makes Hinata a better choice in Naruto's eyes?
For Sakura's part, her treatment from Naruto is explained in Chapter 3. She thinks he's picking on her.
As for why Sakura would pick Naruto over Sasuke, if they can't figure it out after reading the manga/watching the anime, then there is no hope for them. But feel free to try to explain anyways.
7. Actually, we're all for what Sakura wants. It's just more and more, it seems she wants Naruto over Sasuke.
8 Pure, deep love? NaruHina? Do they know what any of those three words mean?
Thats exactly how I feel aswell.
The main argument was that:
When Hinata confesses it will make a huge impact on Naruto because he has never been loved before.
I seriously doubt Kishi would simply throw away the development of NaruSaku at that point and Naruto would drop all his feelings for Hinata's sake.
Except that Naruto is loved. By many people. Iruka, Kakashi, Sakura, and Sasuke come to mind immediately. Is this love romantic? No. Though Sakura is starting to have those feelings. So, Naruto does have love in his life.
Besides, Naruto isn't desperately searching for romantic love. So, I doubt he'll jump on any chance he gets.
And is it me, or is this reasoning making Naruto and Hinata out to be rather pathetic.
#925
Posted 03 September 2007 - 01:40 AM
ame small smile, same slightly narrowed eyes, slightly different angle. I wonder what he’s thinking? "The chuunin exams... Back then, I actually saw Hinata fairly often. Those were the days..."
.....................
...
.
........
So anyway...

Like the one that she'll become the new main character when Part II starts.
Like the one that Naruto will fall heads over heals for her as soon as he sees her.
Like the one that once Hinata comes back "for real," she'll be super-important and will connect with Naruto and something.
Like the one that as soon as Hinata finds out about Kyuubi, she'll touch him with her shows of concern, and later she'll succeed where Sakura has not by stopping KN4!
And that's why I sit back and relax!

#926
Posted 03 September 2007 - 01:52 AM
...
.
........
So anyway...

Like the one that she'll become the new main character when Part II starts.
Like the one that Naruto will fall heads over heals for her as soon as he sees her.
Like the one that once Hinata comes back "for real," she'll be super-important and will connect with Naruto and something.
Like the one that as soon as Hinata finds out about Kyuubi, she'll touch him with her shows of concern, and later she'll succeed where Sakura has not by stopping KN4!
And that's why I sit back and relax!

oh now that made lol quite hard.
i thank you for that.

#927
Posted 03 September 2007 - 02:33 AM
Reread the manga. It'll help you clarify all the information you know, and also pick up some extra information on your second read. It helped me a bunch, and to this day, every single NaruHina/SasuSaku argument can be countered against using evidence from the manga and databook.
For the record, Sakura did love Sasuke at the end of part 1; however, what most people disregard is that it was completely one-sided. Sakura herself stated that Sasuke never tells her anything. (Read: They had none, or hardly any interaction). That alone just proves that it was completely one-sided.
Other proof is that Sasuke ATTACKED Sakura when they met each other again in part 2. Yeah, he was so in love with her >.>
NaruHina is easiest to deal with, as it is specifically shown in databook 2's relationship chart is that Hinata is not in love with Naruto. Her biography also states that she see's him as her idol. The only thing ever said about love is in her databook 1's biography title, where it says "Up and Down Love Story." Well I can safely say it's a DOWN love story.
http://mangahelpers....isplay.php?f=59 is a good place to find some databook information.
There's a lot more to say on the whole NaruHina and SasuSaku argument, but these arguments are pretty damn strong itself.
#928
Posted 03 September 2007 - 02:42 AM
The databook also says that "Ino won't give up on Sasuke." And that was Databook 2! Is that indicative too? >_< No really. Why the hell is that argument still around?
#930
Posted 03 September 2007 - 03:16 AM
and if that does say hinata isnt in love with naruto, im gonna be damn confused, because i always believed she was/still is.
Well its not consider "new, NEW" but its recent (it came out when Part 2 was out around 2005). And it didn't have Hinata loves Naruto, especially in their connection graph.
But the part thats said Hinata is in love with Naruto came from the Official Fan Databook.
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#931
Posted 03 September 2007 - 04:11 AM
The databook also says that "Ino won't give up on Sasuke." And that was Databook 2! Is that indicative too? >_< No really. Why the hell is that argument still around?
I'll take things as they are said. Ino still may have had some sort of feelings for Sasuke when Databook 2 was released. If Kishimoto says she does, then she does. We don't really know what goes in her blond little head; Kishi does.
But the part thats said Hinata is in love with Naruto came from the Official Fan Databook.
I don't remember it saying that Hinata was in love with Naruto. The only time I see the word 'love' around Hinata is in that title.
#932
Posted 03 September 2007 - 04:19 AM
So many people say this. So what? There's no blood relation between them, so no, it's not a brother/sister relationship. Sakura's feelings aside, Naruto is romantically attracted to Sakura anyway. That also bars the relationship from even being similar.
To be more accurate, one would say the relationship is that between close friends. How is this a bad thing? In real life as well as anime, most successful romances start as successful friendships. Ask your opponent what's his/her point.
That's just funny. Not only does DBZ have nothing to do with Naruto, why would Chichi not being a main character have anything to do with it? Why does that even matter? First of all, as anyone who actually watches DB/DBZ can tell you, ChiChi is NOTHING like Hinata. With her bossy, outspoken attitude, and the way she acts around the guy she likes, she's much more like Sakura. Only difference being she liked her Naruto counterpart (Goku) from the beginning.
And this means.... what? That's ancient history. At this point, the rest of the girls don't mistreat Naruto anymore either. And regardless of who treated who badly, Naruto only asks ONE girl out
And if if was a 5th we'd all be drunk. If I had one billion dollars I could get that car I've been dreaming about. And move to Japan. And quit my job and be set for life.
But I'm not packing my bags and calling my boss just yet.
Kishimoto has had plenty of opportunities to give NaruHina screentime. Guess what happened? It didn't get any. Hasn't got any. Doesn't look like it's gonna get any anytime soon. It's like the 40-year old virgin of plot development. Obviously the fact that we're plenty of months into part 2 and NaruHina has gotten ZERO development is indicating the series is going in a different direction. That NaruHina is being let go. Kishi's not picking up its option. That it's part of a fanfiction outplacement. Take your pick.
Normally I'd be a bit more serious in a rebuttal, but come on. These points are practically a joke.

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#933
Posted 03 September 2007 - 04:52 AM
So? Hinata has been so stupendously minor that leaving her hanging is not a big deal at all. Except to NaruHina fanatics. (Whoops!) But I agree. She'll likely never get another love interest. She barely shows up enough to establish the first one, lol.
If by that you mean the ability to get as many fans as it does with about 2 scenes of interaction and filler, I'd have to agree. But SakuKarin has done better. It has fans with NO interaction at all. Plus, it's simply hawt.
[Inserts pic of Naruto saying: "
A Chuunin Exam? Brings back memories (smiles)"
ame small smile, same slightly narrowed eyes, slightly different angle. I wonder what he’s thinking? "The chuunin exams... Back then, I actually saw Hinata fairly often. Those were the days..." Maybe.
(Naruto): "Yes and by fairly often I mean like, twice. In ONE arc. Wow. That's pretty rare. Pretty pathetic actually." Whatever the hell this was supposed to mean.
Detonator? What are they, C4? If this is about the chopsticks scene, what does Sasuke have to do with feeding Naruto ramen? And considering Sai barely knows how to smile, I highly doubt he's any expert on love.
So Hinata should be paired with Naruto because she likes him and Naruto doesn't like Hinata in that way at all. While Sakura shows signs of liking Naruto more and more as time passes. Right.
If that is the case you forget that Hinata has liked Naruto since her apperance.
You think since because Hinata likes Naruto and has since the beginning of the manga she can't change her mind about whom she likes.
You think since because Sakura liked Sasuke since the beginning of the manga she could not have changed her mind about whom she likes.
Two way street people. And considering you can count the number of times Hinata shows up in the manga on your hands, why should her feelings be more important than the main character's? "Sorry Bakura, main characters only."
For instance, her developing feelings for Naruto? Or her crush on Sasuke, which she is becoming less and less adamant about?
"To the honor of pure deep love that makes most sense! For NaruHina!"
Wow. I don't think it gets any more pathetic than that.
As did I, my friend. As did I.

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#934
Posted 04 September 2007 - 03:00 AM
1. Narusaku shows the development of their character bit by bit. its slow, yes but its there while most Naruhina/Sasusaku goes practically from "I don't know/want you" to "OMGWTFBBQ You're so hot! Be my gf!!" in 2 seconds. what are we? 5 years olds?
2. Hinata looks up on Naruto as the kinds of person that she wants to be, strong, confident and never give up. Does that sounds to love for you? to me, its called hero worship.
3. Love comes from mutual understanding and understanding does comes out of blue. it takes a long time to grow and a hell lot of interactions between each other. Sasusaku/Naruhina talks to each other no more than 1 or 2 sentences a time, what makes you think they can understand each other? Even Naruto talks with Haku more than that.
4. Don't lecture me on how Sakura will never have a change of hart from Sasuke to Naruto. the saying, "absence makes the heart grow fonder" may be true in some cases but does that means Sakura will always clung on Sasuke? Hell no. People change during a long time and Sakura has shown that she has come a long way from the fangirl that she was before the time skip, what makes you think she cannot have a change of heart too? "Heart" is a fragile thing afterall.
5. Oh I forgot about this one. What do you see Sakuras affection to Sasuke was? is that love? I don't think so. Fangirlism can barely be seen as love, its a crush. Have you ever hear Sakura says anything good about Sasuke other than he's sexy, cool, strong or Handsome? I don't think so. Love doesn't judge people by their appearance, its how you accept people no matter what, including their faults and Sakura do just that with Naruto.
This is all that I have the time to write for now. Hope it sheds some light on the Naruhina/Sasusaku fans out there.


Love is not about admiring the strength or perfection of the person but to fully accept their shortcoming and weakness. - Me
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#935
Posted 04 September 2007 - 03:32 PM
Unlike other characters, who seem to have made up their minds about Naruto, change their opinions of him without any pretense, or get a once in a blue moon eye opener about him, Sakura's reaction is ALWAYS shown. Even with something as early and basic as the board eraser trap in Chapter 4.
This may not mean much, but to me that indicates that no matter what, Sakura's opinion of Naruto is always important enough to be noted. That's more than Hinata can say, and Sasuke rarely ever GETS a noted change in opinion from Sakura, and almost never a positive one.

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#937
Posted 05 September 2007 - 04:11 PM
Political marriage. I've heard this one before. But I realized something yesterday.
The political marriage arguement hurts NaruHina.
Let's give them the best conditions.
Sakura is no longer an opition for BLANK reason.
Politically, let's say the noble four....err three families have the most power. And for whatever reason Akimichi and Aburame are out.
And Kishimoto wants to use an existing character (since this marriage is coming out of thin air with no development, he could easily make a new character).
So, that leaves exisiting Hyuuga characters.
Using this arguement, Hinata loses.
Hinata is the heir to the clan. The elders aren't going to marry her off. They're going to marry Hanabi off. That's what younger daughters in *noble families are for. It could also explain why she doesn't have the Cursed Seal.
Too young doesn't make sense. They can be engaged for however long it takes her to become 18.
And she has no conflict of interest of leading the clan and being married to the Hokage.
Anything Hinata would do that was unpopular would be seen as the Hokage sticking his nose where it doesn't belong.
Having Hinata leave the clan and Hanabi becoming the heir would defeat her whole theme (since that would essentially her being kicked out of the clan, considering how strictly it follows birth order and rights). Hinata needs resolution with her clan regardless of NaruHina happening. So, getting kicked out of her position despite their strict following of birth rights would make her a complete failure.
Also, the Hyuuga would have to come to Naruto. Naruto would never use Hinata's feelings for him to advance his own goal. So, Hinata liking him is a moot point in the political marriage argument. I mean her father let his own brother die.
If they start arguing this is how her fighting for Naruto could be her fulfilling her theme, point out it no longer is a political marriage their arguing. Then use your various standard arguments about the whole "love."
*I'm not sure if the Hyuuga works like this. But it does under the assumption of their arguement.
#938
Posted 05 September 2007 - 04:33 PM
Political marriage. I've heard this one before. But I realized something yesterday.
The political marriage arguement hurts NaruHina.
Let's give them the best conditions.
Sakura is no longer an opition for BLANK reason.
Politically, let's say the noble four....err three families have the most power. And for whatever reason Akimichi and Aburame are out.
And Kishimoto wants to use an existing character (since this marriage is coming out of thin air with no development, he could easily make a new character).
So, that leaves exisiting Hyuuga characters.
Using this arguement, Hinata loses.
Hinata is the heir to the clan. The elders aren't going to marry her off. They're going to marry Hanabi off. That's what younger daughters in *noble families are for. It could also explain why she doesn't have the Cursed Seal.
Too young doesn't make sense. They can be engaged for however long it takes her to become 18.
And she has no conflict of interest of leading the clan and being married to the Hokage.
Anything Hinata would do that was unpopular would be seen as the Hokage sticking his nose where it doesn't belong.
Having Hinata leave the clan and Hanabi becoming the heir would defeat her whole theme (since that would essentially her being kicked out of the clan, considering how strictly it follows birth order and rights). Hinata needs resolution with her clan regardless of NaruHina happening. So, getting kicked out of her position despite their strict following of birth rights would make her a complete failure.
Also, the Hyuuga would have to come to Naruto. Naruto would never use Hinata's feelings for him to advance his own goal. So, Hinata liking him is a moot point in the political marriage argument. I mean her father let his own brother die.
If they start arguing this is how her fighting for Naruto could be her fulfilling her theme, point out it no longer is a political marriage their arguing. Then use your various standard arguments about the whole "love."
*I'm not sure if the Hyuuga works like this. But it does under the assumption of their arguement.
OMFG! Daidoji, thank you SO much for pointing that out! This was on my mind for a couple of weeks ago.
Seriously, how can NaruHina gonna pull off without the view of the clan, especially her father's views of their (if its gonna happen) relationship?
And you pull out pretty good theories there as well and make sense in a political sense. Now Kudos to you!

Although... NaruHina will probably say she will leave the clan... but like you said, Kishimoto's theme will make no sense if she does that.
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#939
Posted 05 September 2007 - 04:42 PM
If Kishi decides that he wants to play with the politics to further the story in some direction, he will. Otherwise, he'll just ignore them.
#940
Posted 05 September 2007 - 05:22 PM
Unlike other characters, who seem to have made up their minds about Naruto, change their opinions of him without any pretense, or get a once in a blue moon eye opener about him, Sakura's reaction is ALWAYS shown. Even with something as early and basic as the board eraser trap in Chapter 4.
This may not mean much, but to me that indicates that no matter what, Sakura's opinion of Naruto is always important enough to be noted. That's more than Hinata can say, and Sasuke rarely ever GETS a noted change in opinion from Sakura, and almost never a positive one.
Actually, Hinata has had some pretty deep thoughts about Naruto, and was the only one until Sakura thought about his loneliness in part 2; however, that was it.
Like you said though, Sakura has reacted to everything Naruto has done. From the chalkboard eraser, to retrieving his forehead from Zabuza, to thanking him in her fight against Ino, to inspire her after defeating Neji, to smile a grateful smile when he saved her from Gaara, and finally to show a surprised reaction when Naruto stated that he did understand her.
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