54216 replies to this topic

[sushi.]

I sometimes think Naruto whould walk away from sakura because some crimes can be forgiven but not forgotten. The pain and suffering she put him through is unforgivable concidering it was for her selfish ends (sasuke POAL)

 

Does this mean that Hinata should be with Naruto? Hell no... she would be an awful choice for him.

 

maybe he could just find a girl away from the k11 someone random but free of any ties to his past. If sakura loves sasuke after all hes done to her then just let her be i say

I don't get it.

 

If her "crimes" can be forgiven, why would he walk away? Then you say what she put him through is unforgivable?

 

Why should he pick another girl if he doesn't get with Sakura?

 

I know Sakura brought him pain, but she brought him more happiness. At least according to his own flashbacks, words and the gazes.

[Psychox]

I sometimes think Naruto whould walk away from sakura because some crimes can be forgiven but not forgotten. The pain and suffering she put him through is unforgivable concidering it was for her selfish ends (sasuke POAL)

 

Does this mean that Hinata should be with Naruto? Hell no... she would be an awful choice for him.

 

maybe he could just find a girl away from the k11 someone random but free of any ties to his past. If sakura loves sasuke after all hes done to her then just let her be i say

 

Sakura didn't know back then that Naruto had such strong devotion and feelings for her, so i think that she shouldn't get judged for that. When she learned that via proxy (Sai) did you see what she wanted to do immediately ? Yes, it might not have been the best choice ,but she wanted to remove the ''burden'' she had placed on him and had no concept for 3 years. She cried her eyes out when she hear that she was breaking Naruto's heart unintentionally.. I mean Jesus , kishi didn't show her THAT upset when Sasuke left And we all know that Naruto wants to save Sasuke for himself too..

But, that's the deal , he doesn't want any other girl , he loves her and he will not move on even if she chooses Sasuke in the end .

EDIT: Look at the page we are at now, the perfect way to come regarding  the topic

Edited by Psychox, 03 October 2013 - 07:56 PM.

[Paptala]

@Paptala: About the list that you took from another fandom... well, I can definitely say that it is all true. Not to mention that there is one manga masterpiece that adheres to that list to the letter.

 

Rurouni Kenshin

 

But the difference is that RK had a shorter run than Naruto. So, it's easy to dangle the looming question between the hero and heroine in front of the readers. It's really a matter of psychological perspective. For a longer-running series like Naruto, the question have to be constantly referenced and hinted at, otherwise, you ruin the the reader's anticipation. It's not surprising that NH fans seemed to believe that Naruto has gotten over Sakura because of the lack of consistency. 

I agree that Kishi isn't really doing himself any favors by seemingly going back and forth between shipping moments, even though I can understand why he's doing it (to somewhat fulfill that list by giving obstacles and black moments, and also simply to extend the drama in the romance subplot until near the end).  But as you said, this manga is really too long for it to work effectively here and some events really push the bounds of believability in how the characters involved are effected in terms of romance.

 

That being said, I don't think that the Naruto's feelings for Sakura have ever been depicted inconsistently.  He's always treated her affectionately, except when angry at her at the summit, and still was trying to understand where she was coming from.  The same holds true for Hinata - he's always displayed the same emotions towards her - platonic gratitude, respect, concern, and friendly affection.  This was true even in 615 with the handhold (even the expression he gives her, revealed in 633, is the exact same one he gave her in 559).  So I don't think its the characters themselves that have been portrayed inconsistently, but rather the amount of serious/dramatic focus certain character's feelings have gotten over the course of the manga - recently, Hinata's feelings for Naruto have gotten a lot of focus, where Naruto's feelings have only really gotten serious/dramatic focus in 457/458 and the summit (which didn't exactly prove his love to readers) in part two.

 

That being said, comparing the dramatic focus Naruto's feelings for Sakura get to the amount of dramatic focus the girls' get isn't logical to do with the main character in an action shounen manga (because where Hinata's character really only has her feelings for Naruto at this point to deal with, whereas Naruto has Sasuke, the war, breaking the cycle of hatred, etc. to deal with, so obviously his feelings for Sakura are going to be focused on less, especially where Kishimoto developed and established Naruto's feelings for Sakura firmly in part one).  If Hinata's character is about one thing only, she's always going to be shown thinking of or acting on that one thing.  Naruto's character has a lot more to him, so of course Kishimoto isn't going to spend him showing his romantic feelings for Sakura a lot of the time, because he needs to deal with main plot related issues more (which Hinata, and Sakura to a lesser extent, do not have to).

 

On a side note, Rurouni Kenshin is amazing - it was really interesting in that we had a much older than usual hero for a shounen manga, whose past was explored more in each subsequent arc, explaining more about his character as you went.  It's a shame that the anime for it had a gecko ending rather than actually following the manga (though I heard that they were coming out with a new anime for it).

Edited by Paptala, 03 October 2013 - 07:59 PM.

[deviouslyChaotic]

May I add my thoughts on this?

 

I'm not sure if Darkrerst believes this, but either way I think it's the wrong way to look at it that I see is common among the fandom.

 

"Deciding" by yourself what Naruto deserves isn't a rational way to follow the manga. "If I was Naruto, I would so go for Hinata!", "I want to kitten Hinata, but Naruto is close enough", "No one wants a liar as a girlfriend!" etc. Even the other way around; "Who would want a stalker as a girlfriend?".

 

It's a bit sad actually.

Haha, of course you can add your thoughts!

I completely agree. Some of it has to do with people projecting themselves on a particular pairing, which I don't really see the point of. If you're so infatuated with a certain character, then create an OC or read reader-inserts to satisfy yourself. Shipping something just because it's easy to project yourself on the ship is, like you said, irrational. Doing this may serve to completely blind someone from properly analyzing a ship's chemistry and development because they're too worried about what they want and what they think their beloved character deserves while ignoring canon interaction. The enjoyment of pairings is witnessing how two characters interact with each other and how well they compliment each other when paired together. Projecting oneself on a ship just nullifies all of that and serves to dismiss the effort the author puts in developing a relationship between two characters in favor of fulfilling one's desires. It's not about what you want; it's about what the characters want.

 

What i dont enjoy is when Naruto's struggles because of it, he lied to Sakura just let himself be punched by kumo ninjas.

When he sadly admits that Sakura loves Sasuke and so on...

But despite all that his love remains unnaffected because his character is about not giving up.

Oh, ok. I see. Thanks for clarifying :).

[HauntedCake]

I

 

 

Sakura didn't know back then that Naruto had such strong devotion and feelings for her, so i think that she shouldn't get judged for that. When she learned that via proxy (Sai) did you see what she wanted to do immediately ? Yes, it might not have been the best choice ,but she wanted to remove the ''burden'' she had placed on him and had no concept for 3 years. She cried her eyes out when she hear that she was breaking Naruto's heart unintentionally.. I mean Jesus , kishi didn't show her THAT upset when Sasuke left And we all know that Naruto wants to save Sasuke for himself too..

But, that's the deal , he doesn't want any other girl , he loves her and he will not move on even if she chooses Sasuke in the end .

EDIT: Look at the page we are at now, the perfect way to come regarding  the topic

 

Yeah i did sound harsh but i honestly couldn't catergorize her behaviour towards Naruto as anything less then criminal sometimes.

 

Bolded: Then doesn't this make Naruto as bad as Sakura's feelings towards sasuke?

 

I'm only thinking about Naruto with my recent posts not NS as a whole. MAYBE Naruto will choose to let go but it seems at this stage he won't. I was just throwing out ideas

[TouKen4Life3g]

I just wanna say Narusaku4life3g that u sir are the man, always take the time to reply to my comments no matter how ridiculous, irrelevant, misconstrued or insane. So Thank You!

You're welcome. ^_^

I just read so many posts in here and boy, there are so many things I would like to say, but in a nutshell, I believe the main problem is the pov. Why I said that? Because while I understand your pov, I still hold mine and some still believe Hinata is dead on wants to be the wife of Naruto or any some sort. In my eyes, it just friendly acknowledgement. I feel that after the manga ends, in a proper way as in concluding many things, I can see many pov change drastically, like "oh I guess that pairing is meant to be friendly", and so on. I see many different opinions, which is fine, but when it comes to knowing that character's directions, that can be hard to comprehend. By that I mean like knowing the purpose.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I

 

 

Yeah i did sound harsh but i honestly couldn't catergorize her behaviour towards Naruto as anything less then criminal sometimes.

 

Bolded: Then doesn't this make Naruto as bad as Sakura's feelings towards sasuke?

 

I'm only thinking about Naruto with my recent posts not NS as a whole. MAYBE Naruto will choose to let go but it seems at this stage he won't. I was just throwing out ideas

Sometimes i have this feeling that i feel sorry for Naruto, i dont know what is it but it does bother me sometimes.
It's just that, i dont know but i'll just throw out some random stuff.

Maybe i do want Obi/Rin parallel, because maybe i want to Sakura fight for it, and show that she deserves to be loved by Naaruto, i dont know i just find her coming out and saying "i love you" to Naruto and then canon not fair to everything Naruto went though.

 

It's like "Sasuke" is a bad guy  and then Naruto falls from the sky and saves her.

 

#this is not a complete post from me because i really dont know what to really think about this.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 October 2013 - 08:30 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Bolded: Then doesn't this make Naruto as bad as Sakura's feelings towards sasuke?
 
I'm only thinking about Naruto with my recent posts not NS as a whole. MAYBE Naruto will choose to let go but it seems at this stage he won't. I was just throwing out ideas

No, because Naruto has found true love while Sakura believe to found love. Naruto is paralleled to be a guy who can't move on because it's the true love that's hard to break. Naruto (series) is not the first. Even Bakuman done this with the parallel. As for Sakura, she found what it's believe to be love. The main problem is not working out. It's like you keep giving gifts and trying to share love but that person is just "yeah whatever." Remember the concept. Happy wife, happy life.

[Psychox]

I

 

 

Yeah i did sound harsh but i honestly couldn't catergorize her behaviour towards Naruto as anything less then criminal sometimes.

 

Bolded: Then doesn't this make Naruto as bad as Sakura's feelings towards sasuke?

 

I'm only thinking about Naruto with my recent posts not NS as a whole. MAYBE Naruto will choose to let go but it seems at this stage he won't. I was just throwing out ideas

IF you mean in part 1 her actions aren't bad at all ,yes there is that hospital scene when she hugged Sasuke and she gave Naruto no credit at all for saving him, but what can i say, she was selfish back then . And she was happy that Sasuke was okay,but that doesn't make her bad .

About the bolded , i don't think so, i mean he had accepted that she loves Sasuke and he was the source of her happiness, but that ain't the case now ,is it ?He stopped chasing her actively and will not make a move until Sasuke is back aka makes her happy. He will not be forcing anything on her ,but still wants to confess if she rejects him he will bow out and move on ,but he will have to be honest with her and to himself.

Maybe some will interpret it as selfish, maybe.
 

[HauntedCake]

Sometimes i have this feeling that i feel sorry for Naruto, i dont know what is it but it does bother me sometimes.
It's just that, i dont know but i'll just throw out some random stuff.

I do want Obi/Rin parallel, because maybe i want to Sakura fight for it, and show that she deserves to be loved by Naaruto, i dont know i just find her coming out and saying "i love you" to Naruto and then canon not fair to everything Naruto went though.

 

It's like "Sasuke" is a bad guy  and then Naruto falls from the sky and saves her.

 

#this is not a complete post from me because i really dont know what to really think about this.

Agreed.

 

Its like we're just sweeping everything that happened uptil 631 under the carpet.

 

My point is this:

 

Naruto undertakes POAL for her > Sakura still loves sasuke

 

Naruto Becomes hero of konoha defeats Pain> Sakura still loves sasuke?

 

Confession > Sakura did it because she loves sasuke

 

Sasuke tries to kill her TWICE and Naruto saves her in the nick of time > Still loves Sasuke

 

540 > Everything up to this chapter is irrelivent because her love for sasuke is that justifiable

 

631 > progress finally?

 

635 > DOESN'T TRUST HIM..... BUT STILL LOVES HIM....

 

Its confusing the kitten out of me.... Sakura is just a puzzle you cant solve.... at this point her love for sasuke is the most OP thing in this manga.... for all the wrong reasons

 

Maybe Naruto will do this oneday:

 

 

Edited by HauntedCake, 03 October 2013 - 08:41 PM.

[Fairy Tail Fantard]

I wish someone would make a 'Sakura haters without logic' video like Forneverworld did with Hinata. I'm getting pretty sick and tired of seeing Sakura being bashed on every single Naruto video/site I go to.

 

I wish they'd make up their minds. They complain because she's not doing anything 'useful' at the time. Yet when she does do something, they still complain. 

 

Not to mention, you say one bad thing about their princess Hinata, you've just started a war. Yet we can all laugh when someone says Sakura's useless. 

 

It's actually getting to a point where I just roll my eyes when I see the name "Hinata"

[HauntedCake]

I wish someone would make a 'Sakura haters without logic' video like Forneverworld did with Hinata. I'm getting pretty sick and tired of seeing Sakura being bashed on every single Naruto video/site I go to.

 

I wish they'd make up their minds. They complain because she's not doing anything 'useful' at the time. Yet when she does do something, they still complain. 

 

Not to mention, you say one bad thing about their princess Hinata, you've just started a war. Yet we can all laugh when someone says Sakura's useless. 

 

It's actually getting to a point where I just roll my eyes when I see the name "Hinata"

 

You on about me? If so then i haven't mentioned anything about Hinata because Hinata is even worse then sakura ever could be.

 

I just rant from time to time thats all

[Fairy Tail Fantard]

 

You on about me? If so then i haven't mentioned anything about Hinata because Hinata is even worse then sakura ever could be.

 

I just rant from time to time thats all

No, nothing to do with you. Just haters off youtube and other places. Like this VJ guy that I've come across a few times. A lot of them make stuff up that never even happened just to downgrade Sakura.

[HauntedCake]

No, nothing to do with you. Just haters off youtube and other places. Like this VJ guy that I've come across a few times. A lot of them make stuff up that never even happened just to downgrade Sakura.

Yeah its why i stay away from naruto on youtube

[deviouslyChaotic]

No, nothing to do with you. Just haters off youtube and other places. Like this VJ guy that I've come across a few times. A lot of them make stuff up that never even happened just to downgrade Sakura.

I've never met VJ or came across him, but I've heard numerous horror stories involving him. Just ignore him. Those types of people are not worth your time or energy and it's best to not give them attention. People like that crave attention and enjoy getting a rise out of others.

 

EDIT: Look at the page we are at now, the perfect way to come regarding  the topic

.../looks at page number: 469

"the perfect way to come regarding the topic"

"the perfect way to come"

"to come"

"to come"

What are you implying, Psychox? Is this supposed to be some dirty joke?   

[Question22]

comes to hear some narutto opening music*

Youtube  user: Sakura suucks

Youtubee user 2: Sakura is so useless she cries in every  opening

 

Im never reading naruuto coment on YT EVERR  Again

[Paptala]

I don't agree with the notion that Sakura isn't "deserving" of Naruto's love at all.  Aside from the obvious notion that love isn't about deserving it (you don't love someone for what they do for you, but because of who he or she is as a person), Sakura has more than proven herself "deserving" of Naruto's love.

 

She's shown to be smart, compassionate, hardworking, strong and brave - all positive characteristics, which are showcased far more often than her less positive characteristics.

 

In terms of her relationship with Naruto, she's shown an enormous amount of genuine affection and care for Naruto as a person, starting all the way back to the Land of Waves Arc - she is already showing concern and amazement over this boy she doesn't know all that well and finds annoying, and is also helping him out when he requests it of her.  She is trying to cheer him up as early as chapter 39 (beginning of chuunin exam) and was willing to quit the chuunin exams without regard for how it would affect Sasuke in order to preserve Naruto's dream that she didn't even think was feasible at that point in time.

 

Since returning from VOTE, Sakura has done her best to be by Naruto's side and support him in any way that she can.  The best example of this would be the infamous KN4 scene.  Sakura feels a powerful emotion (stated in the manga) when thinking of Naruto, cries over the lengths he will go to to save Sasuke, and rushes at him in this dangerous and uncontrolled state in order to try and help him.  After he attacks her in this form, she doesn't blame him, nor does she show any wariness or fear of him.  Instead, she immediately shows concern for him, heals him despite it paining her, and only worries that she is not doing more for him.  And she continues to worry more for Naruto than any other character in the series, thinking of his burdens and feelings and trying to help him to the best of her abilities.

 

Sakura didn't go to the summit and confess to Naruto because she loves Sasuke (that was only for killing Sasuke, and even that was done partly to ease Naruto's burdens as well, so that he wouldn't have to be the one to kill Sasuke).  Sakura and Sai stated her reasons plainly.  She doesn't want Naruto putting himself in danger or emotional pain anymore by chasing Sasuke, certainly not at her request (POAL).  She wants to ease his burdens, even if it means that he'll hate her.  This last part is especially significant to me, because think for a minute what Sakura is willing to sacrifice here - Naruto has become one of her closest friends, and her main pillar of emotional support, and she is willing to give that source of comfort and friendship up if it means it will benefit Naruto.  Sakura was clearly putting Naruto's feelings and well being before her own.

 

So Sakura is more than deserving of Naruto's love, and I'm surprised that some people here think otherwise.  

 

Her feelings from Sasuke are completely separate and apart from her feelings for Naruto.  Not to mention that she seems to be clinging onto the image of the person Sasuke used to be, rather than who he is now - also consider that she's only briefly interacted with him what - three times in the four years since she's confessed, and it was after the second encounter that we started to see this conflict in her feelings for him begin to show.  

 

She also shouldn't be faulted for not being in love with Naruto - just because Naruto loves her and does a lot for her does not obligate her to return his feelings, nor does it make her any less good of a person for not doing so.  Him saving Konoha and becoming a hero is even less of reason.  It also doesn't make her a bad person for not understanding what she feels for him yet, or confronting that question yet (wartime is definitely not the right time, and I'd prefer if she dealt with her conflicted feelings for Sasuke first anyway).

 

As far as the pain Sakura has caused Naruto goes, it was entirely unintentional on Sakura's part.  She has never set out to deliberately hurt him in any way, physically or emotionally, not since chapter 3.  These are not "crimes" on Sakura's part, they were the actions of a desperate 12 year old girl, and compounded by Naruto's own silence.  He has never blamed her or shown any resentment towards her for this at all, nor should she blamed or resented for her lack of knowledge here, especially since it was a burden Naruto willingly took upon himself and since he kept it to himself very well.

 

tl;dr:  y so harsh on poor Sakura?

Edited by Paptala, 03 October 2013 - 11:23 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Agreed.

 

Its like we're just sweeping everything that happened uptil 631 under the carpet.

 

My point is this:

 

Naruto undertakes POAL for her > Sakura still loves sasuke

 

Naruto Becomes hero of konoha defeats Pain> Sakura still loves sasuke?

 

Confession > Sakura did it because she loves sasuke

 

Sasuke tries to kill her TWICE and Naruto saves her in the nick of time > Still loves Sasuke

 

540 > Everything up to this chapter is irrelivent because her love for sasuke is that justifiable

 

631 > progress finally?

 

635 > DOESN'T TRUST HIM..... BUT STILL LOVES HIM....

 

Its confusing the kitten out of me.... Sakura is just a puzzle you cant solve.... at this point her love for sasuke is the most OP thing in this manga.... for all the wrong reasons

 

Maybe Naruto will do this oneday:

 

 

Less man, Naruto had plenty of reasons to move on and like i said, the first impression is what lasts, from the readers perspective we saw Sakura willing to leave Naruto behind to go wiht Sasuke on the part 1 and later out of desperation asked Naruto to bring Sasuke back and Naruto made the promsie, he got heartbroken on that moment, and even on the hospital he reassured his promise.

Jiraiya even advised him to forget about Sasuke and perhaps move on because of the promise.
That was the moment were Naruto could have moved on and 2.5 years away from konoha would help him into this and it didnt happen, just like they were rooting for Hinata to become the character they wanted to be and she did not.

 

@paptala.

i know this but Naruto didnt witnessed 90% of what you said about that.
The summit he was misleaded to believe that she was doing this for Sasuke alone in the end it only made him suffer a bit more, like slapping on his face that she loves Sasuke again.

She cant be faulted either for Naruto's suffering or for not loving him.
It cant be simple as just a "i love you", that's why i said about doing something to "deserve" his love on naruto's perspective, because a simply "Love you" it's too cheap to swallow from his perspective.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 October 2013 - 11:15 PM.

[redragon88]

I don't see any reason to hate on Sakura, not even on Part 1. To me saying she was horrible as a child is an over exaggerating trend that took off thanks to the constant hate she gets and how people look to justify it.

 

Sakura's love for Sasuke is a terrible character flaw, from the get go that's the impression it was meant to give. This was confirmed when Kakashi listed Team 7's flaws during his examination of them. But having a flaw doesn't mean you're a bad person, it just means you're bound to make mistakes along the way until the day comes when that flaw is completely gone.

 

I do agree that Kishi hasn't done the best job handling this aspect of Sakura. It could've been worse, but it wasn't very good either. In the end thought this is were we stand with Sakura and we can only patiently wait until Kishi finally decides that it's time for Sakura to get rid of that main flaw of hers and thus start giving closure to her character arc.

[Paptala]

@paptala.

i know this but Naruto didnt witnessed 90% of what you said about that.
The summit he was misleaded to believe that she was doing this for Sasuke alone in the end it only made him suffer a bit more, like slapping on his face that she loves Sasuke again.

She cant be faulted either for Naruto's suffering or for not loving him.
It cant be simple as just a "i love you", that's why i said about doing something to "deserve" his love on naruto's perspective, because a simply "Love you" it's too cheap to swallow from his perspective.

Okay, I kind of get where you're coming from now, but I still don't really agree.  Naruto has witnessed plenty.  He himself told Gaara that she was one of four people who saved him from the hell of loneliness by acknowledging him, and he's well aware that she cares a lot for him given she was crying over him when it was revealed that he would die if Kurama was extracted from him (and even though he said she was worrying about Gaara, it was obvious Naruto was being purposefully obtuse in that moment because he doesn't want to see her worry over him, which is why he cut her off and walked away when she started saying that it was him she was worrying about).

 

Not to mention he's been there on at least two of the occasions that she's defending his feelings towards Kabuto and Sasuke, and there when she told him after they failed to get Sasuke back that she was still there for him and that they would get stronger together, and he was there when he healed his arm from the fight with Kakuzu and showed her worry for him again (to which he told her that her support in the quest for Sasuke made him happy), and he was there when she offered to feed him, and he was there when she hugged him in 450, etc.

 

 

He's seen enough to fall in love with her for who she is, and that's enough - he doesn't need for her to return his feelings for him to  feel the way that he does, because that's not what his feelings are based on.

 

Sakura told him flat out that she didn't want him chasing Sasuke if it meant putting him in danger, and his expression immediately softened after that, even if he ultimately did go on to tell her it felt like an excuse.  Sai told him that Sakura was thinking about his feelings and that she was trying to ease his burdens, so again, Naruto knows that Sakura's actions at the summit weren't just for Sasuke, but in large part for himself as well.

 

The only thing I think Naruto needs to have proof of in order to accept a love confession from Sakura is to see that she is comfortable and sure with her own feelings - Sakura was clearly not being one hundred percent forthright with her feelings in 469; not only was she still in love with Sasuke and trying to ignore those feelings, but I don't believe that she knew what she felt for Naruto at that point, and was just doing what she did for his sake.  Once Sakura figures out her own feelings and determines exactly where she stands and what she actually wants, and then confesses to him in that state, I think that her sincerity will be easily ascertainable to Naruto and he'll accept it happily.

Edited by Paptala, 03 October 2013 - 11:33 PM.