19964 replies to this topic

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

In this interview it is mentioned that

Kishimoto-sensei mentions that in the manga story, both Minato and Kushina are dead so he wasn’t able to include much of a family life. However, Road to Ninja gave him the opportunity to write scenes where Naruto was able to grow up a happy life with loving parents.

So he did go to include things that he wasn't able to put into the manga, aside from Sakura's parents.

[kirabook]

There wasn't truly NS in the movie.

The movie contained things Kishi couldn't put into the manga yes, but it's something that he would have liked to. For example, he wanted to write more about Naruto's parents. He wanted to introduce Sakura's parents. He wanted Sakura to experience how has lived his life (Not really possible in canon) and he wanted Naruto to experience time with his parents. (again, not possible in canon) Those are the main points of the movie.

Of course you have Hinata and Sasuke in there, Menma, as well as the rest of the rookies (who aren't exactly rookies anymore), but can anyone honestly say the rookies (including Sasuke) really mattered in this movie? Memna only mattered because he was the reverse Naruto. If it had been some random made up villain, he wouldn't really matter in the end either.

That is what makes this movie so different from the others. While it cannot be considered canon, it can obviously be seen as a true extension of all the things Kishi wanted to do, not pairing wise, but character wise. He wanted to show to us that Sakura will/can/already does understand Naruto's life. He wanted to show that Minato and Kushina are excellent parents and that Naruto would have fit right in with them and loved them dearly. The parents were obviously the most important part of the movie, and the main part of the movie we can't have in canon.

As for NS romantically AND friendwise, again, I feel that this is just an extension of what has already happened in the manga and what Kishi can't truly show us because it's not possible.

Movie Sakura is the Sakura in canon, started off a little bitter towards Naruto (Saying he wouldn't understand her at the beginning of the movie, much like young Sakura thought Naruto was just being annoying and getting in her way) By the end of the movie, she understands why Naruto is the way he is, or rather, what it would be like not to have her parents, developing new appreciation for them and Naruto, much like she has in the manga, but without the parents part because Kishi didn't have time to truly introduce them (again, something we can't have in the manga)

Movie Naruto is the Naruto at the beginning of the manga, feeling very alone and thinking no one cares for him and feels like he has no family. By the end of the movie, Naruto does feel loved, and I assume he understands Sakura and how annoyed she can be with her parents sometimes -we don't really have that much information about it obviously- He especially appreciates the family he does feels he has, Iruka, much like in the manga how he considers Iruka and Team 7 his special people, his makeshift 'family'.

The point of the movie was not NS, it was about bonds again and family. Obviously, that is something Kishi has strongly written within his manga, he just explored the bonds he can't write in the manga, and that is the parents.

Edited by kirabook, 27 January 2013 - 01:08 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

This is the exact reason why I don't like to see RtN being used as NaruSaku proof. Kishimoto said that the movie is basically everything he couldn't put in the manga, that might include NaruSaku as well.

Hmm, who knows what Kishimoto is trying to do.
Still can't wait for RtN Sasuke though!

The movie didnt ended with NS being canon when they return Sakura was the same tsundere and was more gentle to a point that she was the same as the canon Sakura, they didnt had a kiss and even on the RTN they were not dating.
Kishimoto didnt said that he said that, he said that doing the movie was like writing a fanfic.
Because it's clearly obvious that he cant insert Naruto's parents to live with Naruto like a family.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 27 January 2013 - 12:48 AM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Nor can he really write about really aggressive Hinata or super-flirty Sasuke or flat-chested Tsunade or whathaveyou in the original manga. It seems pretty clear to me that a lot of this film is Kishi just having fun doing different things than usual. He has written the manga for so many years, it must be nice to get some change every once in while.

[kirabook]

Those are the parts of the movie I felt was really for comedic purposes. Kishi was definitely having fun with those things, and if Sakura ran away from Sasuke in the comical way people explained, he was having fun with her love for Sasuke too. (and Hinata's obsession with Naruto as well)

But in the end, those characters honestly don't really matter in the grand scheme of the movie. They were for fun.

[sushi.]

Experimenting with the characters in a way he can not do in the manga. Fun, very fun indeed. ^^

The most NS thing was probably when Sakura said that they just had the longest date ever. Most other things are just bonding.

[swagosaurus]

Experimenting with the characters in a way he can not do in the manga. Fun, very fun indeed. ^^

The most NS thing was probably when Sakura said that they just had the longest date ever. Most other things are just bonding.

dat minakushi parallel though. D:

[kirabook]

Well of course there's that, but he already has parallels between them in manga too. It wasn't that new, I forget about the little parallel in the movie often. XD I suppose that's saying if there were more chances, he'd try to draw more vague similarities between them. But I don't think there are very many true parallels he can feed off on in manga now a days. All the parallels of the past have been tied up.

[TouKen4Life3g]

The point of the movie is stating the obvious of NS bond. I never said they did something romantic and all, but it's stating that their friendship is in fact strong. It didn't make them canon, but it does give people a really good impression. It's like Fairy Tail movie, two main people hugged, but not canon. Just show how good their friendships are. NS is shown that way in this movie. That's why people were saying how serious Kishi was on NS. Not the romance but the relationship. We can decide all that when we watch the movie.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 27 January 2013 - 02:48 AM.

[Chucky-kun]

Why not parallel the minakushi younger bridal save and the NS bridal save from the movie?

[TouKen4Life3g]

Why not parallel the minakushi younger bridal save and the NS bridal save from the movie?

We did it already. It's just stating the obvious parallel but Kishi made it way too obvious.

[redragon88]

So I sometimes hear people acknowledge that Naruto shares his tragic love life with Obito and Jiraiya. But then I hear that Naruto's situation will be different because unlike them he has Hinata. Then I hear people feel bad that Jiraiya or Obito never had a Hinata so that's why it ended badly for them.

I'm just shocked by how people are able to twist the surpassing the old generation theme in such a way. So instead of supporting Naruto so that he can be the one to change the tragic love pattern, they would rather support the coincidence that he can have an alternate choice by mere chance.

The lesson would be that hard work counts for nothing and that you must depend on luck. That sound so bad I can't even begin to explain. Being a fan of NaruHina is one thing, even I think they're a nice couple, but what they said just feels wrong.

If you want to have a lover you don't just hope that someone will magically appear and be already deeply in love with you. You work hard towards earing their affection.

Beside, Naruto is the type of guy that when he wants something he sticks to it. Even if Sakura never loved him back I don't think he would stop loving her. Look at Jiraiya, you don't need a more obvious example. And given that Kishimoto has characters having trouble letting go of love (case and point: Sakura and Ino), why on earth would he make Naruto stop loving Sakura, when he has even less reasons to do so.

What reason would exactly motivate Naruto to go from Sakura to Hinata? I just can't think of any. And I don't want to hear the "Hinata has done so much for Naruto, he'll notice her". Whatever Hinata has been able to do for Naruto, Naruto has done 5 times better for Sakura. If we really go by the "who is the most deserving to have their love returned?" then the answer will always be Naruto.

[Lady_duckish]

I thought about that. I'll admit, I think it's a less obvious way to get around having Naruto achieve all his goals except a romantic relationship with Sakura.

Even if they did have other options, it doesn't mean their feelings for their current interest will fade away. If this manga tells us anything, its that feelings linger for a long time. Even with better prospects 'dancing naked' in front of you.

The deserving thing is on a few levels, but I think it's been the points been made time and time again. The people who spout nonsense about Sakura not deserving Naruto's love are wasting their time. If we want to be jerks about it, we can say early part one Sakura didn't deserve the broth left over in Naruto's bowl, but what does it matter? He loved her anyway

Edited by Lady_duckish, 27 January 2013 - 06:18 AM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

I'd get the NaruHina's fans point about Naruto "surpassing the previous generation" if Obito or Jiraiya had a Hinata-type character that loved or liked them once a upon a time, but neither of them returned the feelings and instead loved the girl who didn't love them back. I could see it, because Naruto could break that by loving the girl who always loved him. But there isn't an character out there parallel to Hinata or exactly like her. Hinata's just ... there as a stand-alone. There is also that argument that he would move on unlike the previous and love someone who loves him. But isn't that like giving up? The girl doesn't love you, so look elsewhere. It just doesn't sound like the Naruto I know and the manga doesn't support that.

That's kinda what NaruHina is, actually. Just sit there quietly and wait for your crush to notice you without any effort. Hinata did that a lot, because of her shy nature. I can admittingly relate to her in that aspect, I have done exactly the same thing because of my shyness and low-self esteem issues. I'm not exactly proud of it and I will say from personal experience: it gets you absolutely nowhere. Nine times out of ten, just sitting there and waiting for someone to come up to you and like you ... it just doesn't work out, take it from me. So the argument "Naruto will notice her" is moot if Hinata doesn't even try. No wonder he never actually had feelings for her for over 600 chapters ... she never did anything to draw his attention. Seriously, looking at early NH is like looking at a reflection of my first big crush. Funnily enough, it was a big failure.

The NH fans argue that Naruto will be over Sakura because of his "I hate people who lie to themselves" line. It's certainly not an impossibility, I'll give them that. But I can't really believe it since, as Sai explained, Sakura's actions and motives was because of Naruto and his feelings. Yeah, Naruto was hurt by Sakura's "lie", but I don't see how he's suddenly supposed to lose his feelings for her. Sasuke has done terrible, self-centered things to both him and others, yet Naruto forgives him for worse. How does it make sense for Naruto to stop loving her just because of that? It's wishful thinking.

I detest the "Hinata deserves him more because she has always loved him" argument. Yeah, but what did she actually do with her feelings? Watching him from a distance, hiding behind trees since she was shy. Sakura in the meantime, though she hated him, got to know him and understand his struggles/fears/hopes. She always openly supported him, doesn't she deserve Naruto a little more? I have said this multiple times. If Hinata finally changed herself enough to hang out with him without studdering/blushing earlier on in Part 1, then her chance with him would be larger. Before Naruto fell in love with Sakura, before Sakura developed feelings for him herself. However, it's too late now. Naruto loves Sakura, and it's not easy for him to change that at the drop of a hat.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 27 January 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[redragon88]

@xxRomanceGirlxx

It wouldn't be enough for there to be a Hinata type character for Jiraiya and Obito. It would have to be shown that their love for Tsunade and Rin was just superficial and to show them being fond of the Hinata type character but not feeling like letting go of the other love. Additionally with Naruto himself it would need to be shown that he's growing fond of Hinata, and to imply that his feelings for her are becoming more special than anything he had with Sakura. If it's coordinated that way then showing Naruto going to Hinata would represent a nice surpassing the old generation moment.

But that's not the case. Jiraiya remained in love with Tsunade no matter what throughout all of his life, even when he probably spent most of it sleeping around with other women. And Obito, well, no need to explain that mess, all of the events of the series basically boil down to it.

Kishi made the love that Obito and Jiraiya had as extremely serious feelings that shouldn't be laughed at. From what I've seen he made Naruto follow the same path, so I simply don't understand why some just don't get it.

Even after the most recent chapters it still seems that Hinata isn't anything special for Naruto. He's thankful for her encouragement but it doesn't go beyond that. Yet people are already thinking he's now deeply in love with her. If that was the case it would mean that Naruto went from not thinking anything in particular about her to considering her the woman of his dreams in the space of 1 chapter. Isn't that pushing the shift in feelings a little too far?

Even if it's simply considered the beginning of Naruto's new feelings then why just now near the end? Why no hint here and there in the middle of the story? Maybe a little reference in the databook. Something, anything that could've made us wonder if Naruto was starting to change his feelings. Sakura had that in spades, so we know Kishi knows how to do it. Does it really make sense to have Sakura being the one slowly built up with conflicting feelings and yet have Naruto be the one who changes them when Kishi has made his unwavering?

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

@redragon88



You have a point there. Kakashi is parallel to Sasuke in the Team Minato Love Triangle, yet he never actually showed genuine affection for her. Not until Obito "died", and who knows what happened after that. However, I can never see that as proof that SS will "surpass the previous". It's ridiculous and goes against every aspect of Sasuke's character possible. I wouldn't completely denote it as a possibility for NH if there was a Hinata parallel, just to be somewhat open-minded. It gives their pairing more backing. Though it would be kinda sad if they had to rely entirely on parallels for their pairing to happen. In the case of NH, I see the fondness but I don't see the romantic in it. Mostly Naruto's feelings are shown as a friendship fondness or "big brother love".

Naruto surpassing the previous by getting Sakura to love him isn't that hard to believe or outrageous. It's actually a fairly obvious conclusion that really isn't that hard to understand. I understand your disbelief, I share it too. But I truly think the main reasons for the fandom to not accept these possibilities are three reasons:

1). Sakura's love for Sasuke was confirmed in 573 and later explictly in 540. A lot of people took it at face value, since it's unbelievable she still loves Sasuke this late in the series and after the murder attempts. Sense that double standard in this sentence?

2). Hinata's large and extremely loud/powerful fanbase. They support her and her wishes as a character for whatever reason they have (Her backstory is sympathetic, she's cute and submissive, kind-hearted, always loved Naruto etc. etc.) so naturally, it's hard for some of them to accept the "surpassing the previous" support for NS. So they either twist it for their pairing (Look no further than the forced NaruHina= MinaKushi parallel or NaruHina= ObiRin parallel) or deny it completely, claiming parallels mean nothing.

3). Sakura's haters/bashers. They're so intense with their usually unreasonable hate for her, seeing her as an abusive, useless b*tch who deserves to die or doesn't give a crap about Naruto, loves only Sasuke, and is self-absorbed apparently that they don't think she deserves someone as great as Naruto. Obviously, they deny NaruSaku being possible, because of their hatred. Can coincide with Hinata love.

I think I can somewhat understand why some readers think Reason #1 means NaruSaku won't happen and "surpassing the previous" argument won't work for him. It's terribly unrealistic Sakura still loves Sasuke after everything he's done and if multiple murder attempts didn't change her feelings, it's hard to believe anything else will. That is, if you ignore the NS development. But reasons #2 and #3 just come down to straight biasness. Either extreme love or extreme hate. People believe what they want to believe, after all.

A NH fan claimed to me yesterday that whether or not the hand-holding is romantic is debatable since Naruto held her hand without Kurama's chakra. I really can't see it that way (Though I give her props for saying it's debatable instead of typing in all caps "THE NARUHINA HAND-HOLDING WAS ROMANTIC. SUCK IT, NS FANS!"). Why I think like that is because Naruto didn't smile specially or stare at her when he held her hand. It came off so general and platonic, he wasted no time at all giving chakra to others. How is it romantic now? It simply is not a strong argument, it's full of holes. That's what I noticed about NH. It's two or three major moments all had other reasons for it happening: The Blood Vow: Naruto took Neji's preaching personal because he himself was a failure, not just concern for Hinata's honor. It was never mentioned again after the Chunin Exam Arc. Hinata's confession: Naruto reacted in fierce rage after Hinata got struck down, yet he was also angry over the deaths of Kakashi and the destruction of the village. Naruto also didn't hang out with her afterwards, though he had time to. NH hand-holding: Naruto gave his chakra to pretty much everyone else, holding the hands of Shikamaru and Tenten as well in 616/617. Demoted as a battle strategy/act of gratitude.

What annoys me is how it suddenly have to have different intentions behind it if it's Hinata. Why? Because she loves him? Does Naruto have to return his feelings and love her? I've a lot of NH fans call Naruto a jerk if he doesn't return her feelings. Again, why is he obligated to? The response always is "Because it's Hinata and she always loved him. She's so nice, she deserves him." Very true. Naruto cannot fall in love with Hinata in the span of one chapter. If you wanna say he doesn't but has feelings for her, okay. If you wanna say it's possible to develop feelings for her after this, okay. But love? Since when has Naruto been that fickle a person? I think NH fans wanna believe that with the combination of Hinata's confession/sacrifice and Sakura's "untruthful" confession, he already fell in love with her. Seems laughable, but that's what a lot of them say.

Simple: Bad writing. Kishimoto would be destroying his own messages and pairing development to make NH happen. There would would be no accurate groundwork that implied romance, it just happened. It would've been better to not include romance at all. That's the truth of the matter. Though my faith in Kishimoto isn't particularly great in character development lately, my faith in his pairing choice haven't wavered. NS is still most likely gonna happen, unless Kishi decides to take the bad writing route. Is it possible? Unfortunately. I just don't think he'd ruin his own manga that badly. Nope, it doesn't. If NaruSaku wasn't gonna be the end pairing, I don't get the point of the 3rd Databook confirming her confused feelings for Naruto, the Tenchi Bridge scene, or the crowd blushing at the 1st NaruSaku hug. Naruto changing his feelings randomly this late in the game is also IMO dumb. Why not make him get over Sakura earlier and let him get closer to Hinata?

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 27 January 2013 - 12:02 PM.

[MangaReader]

I see walls of text

Basically we should all know by now that NaruHina fans hold to the double standard. Heck I remember when I said main characters mindsets never change, that where things got interesting. Basically I was told that if Naruto can't change, then Sakura can't change. Of coarse by that standard, no one would end up with anyone, so along the line someone has to change and it can't be your main hero Naruto and it definitively can't be Sasuke. So really, it comes down to Sakura

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

So I sometimes hear people acknowledge that Naruto shares his tragic love life with Obito and Jiraiya. But then I hear that Naruto's situation will be different because unlike them he has Hinata. Then I hear people feel bad that Jiraiya or Obito never had a Hinata so that's why it ended badly for them.

I'm just shocked by how people are able to twist the surpassing the old generation theme in such a way. So instead of supporting Naruto so that he can be the one to change the tragic love pattern, they would rather support the coincidence that he can have an alternate choice by mere chance.

The lesson would be that hard work counts for nothing and that you must depend on luck. That sound so bad I can't even begin to explain. Being a fan of NaruHina is one thing, even I think they're a nice couple, but what they said just feels wrong.

Beside, Naruto is the type of guy that when he wants something he sticks to it. Even if Sakura never loved him back I don't think he would stop loving her. Look at Jiraiya, you don't need a more obvious example. And given that Kishimoto has characters having trouble letting go of love (case and point: Sakura and Ino), why on earth would he make Naruto stop loving Sakura, when he has even less reasons to do so.

The argument I have heard goes that Obito and Jiraiya closed their eyes to other possible loves in their live because they kept going after women who were not available to them. So Naruto will break their pattern by realizing that Sakura will never love him and accepting this and moving on and finding love because he did not cling to the past. We don't know if Jiraiya and Obito had other girls crushing on them, that, IMO, is the weakness of this argument. Otherwise it makes sense, though. How can Naruto, Jiraiya and Obito keep expecting love from women they know to be in love with some other men? It is better to move on and look for love elsewhere and not wait around for the impossible to happen.

If you want to have a lover you don't just hope that someone will magically appear and be already deeply in love with you. You work hard towards earing their affection.

And now Naruto has worked hard at impressing Sakura. For +600 chapters. And she is still in love with the terrorist murderer bad guy who doesn't even love her back. This is telling. Naruto has tried to make Sakura fall for him, and the confession scene shows us that Sakura knows what a great guy Naruto is. And yet, she still does not love him. At some point Naruto has to realize that no amount of hard work is necessarily going to make a girl fall in love with you. You can't (nor should you) force someone to love you.

What reason would exactly motivate Naruto to go from Sakura to Hinata? I just can't think of any. And I don't want to hear the "Hinata has done so much for Naruto, he'll notice her". Whatever Hinata has been able to do for Naruto, Naruto has done 5 times better for Sakura. If we really go by the "who is the most deserving to have their love returned?" then the answer will always be Naruto.

Hinata is available: she loves Naruto and is willing to have a future together. She is an amazing woman with all these good qualities. Sakura is an amazing woman, too, but: Sakura loves someone else, not Naruto. How can Naruto keep pestering a woman who has pretty much said "no thanks" to him? Sakura does not want Naruto, she is not in love with him. Naruto knows this, as he knows that she loves another man. I would turn your question around: what reason would exactly motivate Naruto not go from Sakura to Hinata? What reason is there for Naruto to keep clinging to Sakura, with his chances of ever getting together with her as small as they are?

---

That's kinda what NaruHina is, actually. Just sit there quietly and wait for your crush to notice you without any effort. ... So the argument "Naruto will notice her" is moot if Hinata doesn't even try. No wonder he never actually had feelings for her for over 600 chapters ... she never did anything to draw his attention.

And you know what? You are absolutely correct: just sitting around is probably not going to get you to be noticed. Which is probably why Kishi wrote Hinata to do all these things that got Naruto's notice. He noticed her when she stood up to Neji in their fight in the chuunin exams. He noticed her during missions when she talked to him, even briefly and just to say something like "let's do our best". He noticed her when she jumped in front of Pain and confessed her love to Naruto. He noticed her when she defended him to Kiba and others when Naruto came to help them earlier in the war arc. Naruto noticed her when Neji and she defended him. He noticed her when she slapped his face (hard not to, ) and gave her speech. He noticed her when she fixed his arm during the very latest chapter. Hinata is doing all these things and getting noticed by Naruto. She is not laying home in her bed, wondering when her Naruto, her Prince Charming, is going to come to get her.

I detest the "Hinata deserves him more because she has always loved him" argument. Yeah, but what did she actually do with her feelings? Watching him from a distance, hiding behind trees since she was shy. Sakura in the meantime, though she hated him, got to know him and understand his struggles/fears/hopes. She always openly supported him, doesn't she deserve Naruto a little more?

I'm not a big fan of that either- I generally just don't like that "someone deserves to be with someone else" argument. No one deserves nothing from nobody. Naruto does not deserve to have Sakura because he is a nice guy, Hinata does not deserve Naruto because she has always loved him. I also dislike how some people turn this into a competetion. Hinata and Sakura have both done things to help Naruto and have both supported him. Naruto should end up with a girl who loves him and who he loves back. And they should end up together because they both want to be together. What the other person has done for Naruto should be irrelevant.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 27 January 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[MangaReader]

Hinata is available: she loves Naruto and is willing to have a future together. She is an amazing woman with all these good qualities. Sakura is an amazing woman, too, but: Sakura loves someone else, not Naruto. How can Naruto keep pestering a woman who has pretty much said "no thanks" to him? Sakura does not want Naruto, she is not in love with him. Naruto knows this, as he knows that she loves another man. I would turn your question around: what reason would exactly motivate Naruto not go from Sakura to Hinata? What reason is there for Naruto to keep clinging to Sakura, with his chances of ever getting together with her as small as they are?

And I can turn your words around too... why lie to yourself just to be in a relationship, Naruto would be a hypocrite then. Sure you can move on, but when your feelings are genuine (unlike Sakura's for Sasuke, which is based off a lie) you can never truly get over them. I know that better then anyone, despite not being in a relationship. It's as the saying goes, "Old flames die hard".

Now to why Sakura's love for Sasuke is a based on a lie, well that goes back to the very first volume of Naruto. The answer is the Bench scene, Naruto at that time admitted he made a mistake, instead of making Sasuke look like a jerk, he gave Sakura the false illusion that Sasuke had a soft side hidden deep down inside him. That's when her feelings went from just fangirling, to a false pretense of love. Minus the whole false pretense, Hinata's feeling can be categorized somewhat like Part 1 Sakura's feelings were. It's pretty much Hero Worship taken to an obsession point, to where her character is only capable of doing anything important in Naruto's presence or involves Naruto's well-being in anyway. Hinata's far from a independent character that for sure.

[Zatheko]

The argument I have heard goes that Obito and Jiraiya closed their eyes to other possible loves in their live because they kept going after women who were not available to them. So Naruto will break their pattern by realizing that Sakura will never love him and accepting this and moving on and finding love because he did not cling to the past. We don't know if Jiraiya and Obito had other girls crushing on them, that, IMO, is the weakness of this argument. Otherwise it makes sense, though. How can Naruto, Jiraiya and Obito keep expecting love from women they know to be in love with some other men? It is better to move on and look for love elsewhere and not wait around for the impossible to happen.

The same can be said for Hinata as well, at least in the case of NS we have been shown that sakura has some feelings toward naruto, how strong are those feelings? I don't know, but out of all the possible pairings it is safe to say that sakura so far has shown the most to be able to switch her feelings compared to naruto or sasuke switching theirs. So what I am saying is the "it is better to move on and look for love elsewhere" works better for sakura moving on form sasuke and toward naruto.