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#901 True

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 04:35 PM

Kubo put my name in the chapter title! Freaking awesome!
QUOTE (Miss Soupy @ Oct 23 2009, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Speculation of what may have happened off-screen XD it was never shown she saw the mask directly. But, I don't think the images of the mask were her thoughts, they were just reminders to the reader what the previous forms looked like. She seemed to be guessing herself, so it makes more sense she doesn't know for certain since she has never seen the mask closely (if at all).

The reader already know the changes in the mask as Ichigos' progressed through his hollow states. Taking the time to show that Rukia has noticed the very subtle changes such as markings of the mask shows significance that no other character in the manga has pointed out. It doesn't seem as just another reminder for Kubo to tell the readers the mask has changed when they've constantly seen it happen.

#902 Miss Soupy

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 05:09 PM

QUOTE (True @ Oct 23 2009, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The reader already know the changes in the mask as Ichigos' progressed through his hollow states. Taking the time to show that Rukia has noticed the very subtle changes such as markings of the mask shows significance that no other character in the manga has pointed out. It doesn't seem as just another reminder for Kubo to tell the readers the mask has changed when they've constantly seen it happen.


Credit to Rukia understanding Ichigo comes from her seeing his inner struggle even while he tried to hide it. Noticing the mask doesn't credit this, because she has been largely unaware of the strength of this hollow side (because Ichigo kept it from her). Ichigo says his mask is heavier multiple times within one chapter, saying it more times emphasized the fact to the reader. I don't see why having Rukia notice a difference in the mask can't be another way to emphasize this to the reader. It is the first time it has been commented on by another character, which makes the reader realize there is a definite point to the mask changing (rather than just thinking kubo got bored with previous designs).

#903 True

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 05:52 PM

I disagree. Rukia's perspective was more than just showing the changes in the mask, but the changes with Ichigo himself--as she noted first by looking into his eyes. She's been aware of his inner hollow as most likely by doing research from asking Byakuya/Urahara and the qualms he's faced with it. This chapter she notes the changes in the mask and connects it with Ichigo's troubles. Kubo bypasses what we normally would have expected of her to be afraid of the mask and goes directly to her concern for Ichigo himself. With her perspective we get a more in-depth realization of not only the fluctuating power that comes with the changing mask, but how it has been effecting him emotionally on a negative level. Rukia sees past the mask and focuses on the man behind it. She's the outlet to the readers for showing how it has changed Ichigo throughout his tribulations in Hueco Mundo and effected his personality.

#904 Miss Soupy

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 07:03 PM

QUOTE
I disagree. Rukia's perspective was more than just showing the changes in the mask, but the changes with Ichigo himself--as she noted first by looking into his eyes. She's been aware of his inner hollow as most likely by doing research from asking Byakuya/Urahara and the qualms he's faced with it. This chapter she notes the changes in the mask and connects it with Ichigo's troubles. Kubo bypasses what we normally would have expected of her to be afraid of the mask and goes directly to her concern for Ichigo himself. With her perspective we get a more in-depth realization of not only the fluctuating power that comes with the changing mask, but how it has been effecting him emotionally on a negative level. Rukia sees past the mask and focuses on the man behind it. She's the outlet to the readers for showing how it has changed Ichigo throughout his tribulations in Hueco Mundo and effected his personality.


Rukia noted changes in Ichigo before she noticed the mask. So, she already knew something was wrong with him and looked for a reason, which she got a clue with the mask. She already knows he has problems with his hollow, so it's not a stretch for her to associate what she noticed with his mask. Associating those things to me isn't some huge sign of amazingness only she can accomplish, but rather a clear observation other characters could also make. Also, Ichigo's own contradicting lines and failure to produce a mask show clearly how Ichigo has changed.

Now I'm confused on if you think Rukia has ever actually seen the mask or not. You are saying it is a big deal she isn't afraid of the mask, which implies this is the first time she has seen it. But previously you said it was important that she could tell between the different variations of the mask itself. So which is it? If she has seen it already, why should she be suddenly afraid? Even if she hasn't seen it, she says she knows it exists and has heard it changes. Still doesn't give reason for her to fear it.

But, I kinda think you are trying to relate this to Orihime XD If you are trying to relate this to Orihime fearing the mask, then yes, Orihime did fear it and Rukia has not. Orihime feared it, but then again, Orihime felt Ichigo's hollow reiatsu trying to take control of Ichigo. She witnessed the problem first hand, Rukia was told of the problem and knew what to expect.

At the least you must accept that UlquiHime is canonz hm.png

#905 Sir Whirly

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 09:45 PM

Am I the only one happy to see Kenpachi finally show back up in this series. His and Ichigo's fight was always the best and I want to see him bust out some crazy on "Cero".


#906 Miss Soupy

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 10:00 PM

I prefer Byakuya heheelq7.png

#907 True

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 10:14 PM

Her noticing of his changing demeanor and connecting it with his mask may not seem as a huge accomplishment to you but I think it's an important precedent in showing the strong bond between the two. We the readers have already noted these changes in his mask as well as attitude, but this time get another perspective from a character within the manga outside of Ichigo himself. You note that it's an observation that any other character could have made and I'm glad you brought up that point as it highlights Rukia being the most observant of his nakama (Kubo knocked out Renji/Chad yet left her safe) as she is the one who shows the greatest concern and is (so far) most knowledgeable of his state. I find this significant in character relation, you may not.

I had been trying to prove she had seen it before for consistencies sake as I figured she would have a more surprised reaction to Ichigo using a hollow mask and wielding Vizard powers. However, my friend told me that that not the point Kubo was trying to illustrate as Rukia has already seen past the mask and focusing on the person behind it. She knows of it's existence and through previous research doesn't care about how frightening/strange it looks, but rather how it is directly effecting Ichigo himself.

When speaking of Rukia I try not to bring up Orihime but it's hard when Kubo uses so many parallels and in this case it's in terms of the eyes/mask. Yeah Orihime was originally fearful of it but later on overcame and accepted it, Rukia has already knowledge of it and deals with hollows. I won't say anymore on the subject as it's simply character parallels and that can be a stringy argument.

And I'm sure Hime is up in the dome trying to mold Ulqui back together laugh.gif

#908 Miss Soupy

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 11:16 PM

Ah well, I still think the more significant part was her noticing the change by a mere look in Ichigo's eyes. But I'm not an IchiRuki fan anyways pictureem0.gif

QUOTE (True @ Oct 23 2009, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And I'm sure Hime is up in the dome trying to mold Ulqui back together laugh.gif


That'd be awesome!!! wow.png

#909 Dreamer

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 11:56 PM

I'm going to try to remain neutral on this one. It's seems obvious that Kubo is doing the same thing that Kishi has been doing giving a possible moment with one fandom and swapping over to the other one.

At this point I would be satisfied with IchiXRuki or IchiXHime in the end. happy.gif (My FanFic pairing of IchigoXRangiku overrides the other. wub.gif [It all starts with Ichigo and Rangiku in a bar drinking sake and drunk together alone. biggrin.gif ])

I'll always be a danarusakunp3.gif pairing fan, I refuse to accept Hinata. :verymad:

Edited by Uzumakikage, 24 October 2009 - 03:15 AM.


#910 Miss Soupy

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 12:09 AM

I have a feeling you are going to be very disappointed Uzumakikage tongue.gif Such a cracky pairing XD And I thought you wanted Ichigo/Harribel hm.png

#911 Dreamer

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 02:51 AM

QUOTE (Miss Soupy @ Oct 23 2009, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a feeling you are going to be very disappointed Uzumakikage tongue.gif Such a cracky pairing XD And I thought you wanted Ichigo/Harribel hm.png


I do, FanFic Crack Pairings: (IchigoX[Rangiku th_confused0089.gif drooling.gif][/IchigoX[Harribel th_confused0089.gif drooling.gif]/IchigoX[Yoruichi drooling.gif ]) I like to keep plenty of options/windows available. happy.gif

Edited by Uzumakikage, 24 October 2009 - 03:18 AM.


#912 Hak

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 11:45 AM

Does anyone know where to find the evolution of Ichigos mask?
*shame* I haven't noticed about small changes in it... ermm.gif confused.gif

Might be because almost everytime I read Bleach I have just finished reading Naruto...

Edited by Hak, 24 October 2009 - 11:45 AM.

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#913 Cloud

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 03:08 PM

QUOTE (Hak @ Oct 24 2009, 07:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does anyone know where to find the evolution of Ichigos mask?
*shame* I haven't noticed about small changes in it... ermm.gif confused.gif

Might be because almost everytime I read Bleach I have just finished reading Naruto...


Blasphemy! hm.png

I think True's post on the other page has the links. (Previous page)

#914 True

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 04:20 PM

QUOTE (Hak @ Oct 24 2009, 07:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does anyone know where to find the evolution of Ichigos mask?
*shame* I haven't noticed about small changes in it... ermm.gif confused.gif


First time he got his mask a couple of black marks.
Second time it came out grew a few more black marks.
After Vizard training he can control it and the left side is covered in black marks.
After Ulquiorra 'killed' him it completely changes and grows horns (and a hole in the chest) he became a full hollow.
And now currently it's just two black lines down between his eyes.
Not sure about the last two except that his hollow powers have surged and he can barely control it. We'll just have to wait for another trip into the inner world to find out what's going on!

#915 Denim88

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 08:19 PM

I don't know,personally I was hoping for Unohana to step in and fight. Though, I guess Byakuya and Kenpachi wouldn't want their healer getting involved in a fight when there are injured to tend to, heh. Still, she's supposedly the third strongest Shinigami captain (underneath Yamamoto and Aizen). I was hoping she'd be able to have her time in the spot light. Aw well, I guess there's still a chance. I'm not complaining though; Kenpachi is always fun to watch fight, and Byakuya's fine too I guess. Hmm...well, we'll see what happens.

As for Ichigo's mask predicament, he said something about it being 'heavier', didn't he? Maybe Hollow Ichigo's making another attempt at breaking free? I distinctly remembering Hollow Ichigo saying that Ichigo thinks too much when he fights, and that he doesn't have as much of that 'instinct' to fight for the sake of defeating his opponents.

After Ichigo defeated Hollow Ichigo in battle, before Ichigo gained control again, Hollow Ichigo stated more or less that he would be back again, and if Ichigo let his guard down even for a moment, he'd do everything to take over and remove Ichigo from power again.

Low and behold, Hollow Ichigo reappeared in the final battle against Ulquiorra.

I'm guessing it's almost to the point where Hollow Ichigo's just getting stronger while Ichigo himself is either standing still or losing strength. Maybe it's just speculation, but Hollow Ichigo's far from done yet. I look forward to whatever happens next for our Substitute Shinigami.

Gimme a break, 'kay?

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#916 Dreamer

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 09:53 PM

I see four possible scenarios that could happen in this fight:

1. Kenpachi and Byakuya are successful.

2. Kenpachi and Byakuya lose and Yammy further proves himself on being the real deal causing Unohana to fight showing her combat skills.

3. Kenpachi gains a shikai and/or bankai during the fight finishing off Yammy.

4. Kenpachi and Byakuya get taken out and Ichigo somehow controls his new Vizard mask showcasing more power skill/attacks and defeats Yammy. (least likely to happen)

#917 Hak

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 12:00 AM

QUOTE (Cloud @ Oct 24 2009, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Blasphemy! hm.png

I think True's post on the other page has the links. (Previous page)

I have to say I agree with you, well the long road to redemption is ahead of me, I just have to take the first step... happy.gif

QUOTE (True @ Oct 24 2009, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First time he got his mask a couple of black marks.
Second time it came out grew a few more black marks.
After Vizard training he can control it and the left side is covered in black marks.
After Ulquiorra 'killed' him it completely changes and grows horns (and a hole in the chest) he became a full hollow.
And now currently it's just two black lines down between his eyes.
Not sure about the last two except that his hollow powers have surged and he can barely control it. We'll just have to wait for another trip into the inner world to find out what's going on!


Thank you True! This was a big help!
Trust me, I'm an engineer!

#918 Miss Soupy

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 01:40 AM

Hm, I wonder if its significant that the marks now appear on both sides of the mask. Previously there was always one said that was pure white while the other side gained more and more red marks. Now both sides have equal red marks. Could be a way to gauge the hollows growing control over Ichigo. With marks on both sides the hollow is in control (as seen with Ichithing).

About the upcoming fight, I'm still holding out for Unohana to show up. Byakuya and Kenpachi are sort of acting childish, and I could see Kubo pulling off an upper tier captain showing the middle tier captains how to fight. heheelq7.png

Edited by Miss Soupy, 25 October 2009 - 01:40 AM.


#919 Dreamer

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 04:34 AM

Soul Society Spoiler Thread

Bleach 380 Spoilers by Nja and translation by Sheetz --Click here to view--
Translation by Sheetz @ FLOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheetz
扉絵は 剣八と白夜さんでした。
Cover is Kenpachi and Byakuya
今回は・・・ 簡単にいうと
This will be brief.
ヤミーそっちのけで(剣八はヤミーに殴られ吹っ飛ばされますが ハエみたいなパンチで温いんだ よで終わり)
Yammi focuses on fighting Kenpachi. (Kenpachi is blown away by Yammi but it's a weak punch.)
途中顔がキモイマユリ?wが登場し
In the middle of this Mayuri shows up.
ここの実験施設を解析しいつでもゲートを開けるマシンを作ったと長々説明し
He explains that he has with him a machine he made that can open the gates whenever he wants.
マユリ 黒崎イチゴお前は現世へちゃんといけるか実験体一号になってもらう
Mayuri: "Kurosaki Ichigo, by properly making it to the real world you'll become my #1 test subject."
卯の花隊長が現れ 私も現世にいきます といい
Unohana appears and says she wants to go to the real world, too.
マユリ おやおや四番隊隊長さんみずから私の実験の実験体に失敗しても知りませんよ?と皮肉っ ぽくいい
Mayuri: "Oh dear, if the 4th Division Captain is my test subject herself, she won't know if I've made a mistake."
負けじと 卯の花隊長が この実験失敗はありませんは絶対に成功します。だって失敗して浦原さ んの耳に入っ たら小ばかにされて笑われてしまうでしょうからね
といいあい
Undaunted, she replies, "There definitely won't be a mistake. If there was and if Urahara-san heard then he'd make fun of you."
イチゴ しかしあいつはやばい(ヤミーに対して)
Ichigo: But those guys are in trouble (against Yammi.)
白夜 兄はなんとか町の死神代行だろ・・・兄の町の守るのが兄の仕事だろ
Byakuya: "You are the substitute shinigami of that town...so it's your duty to guard it."
イチゴ !!!!!!!
Ichigo: !!!!!
イチゴ わかったいってくると卯の花さんとワープする所で完です
Ichigo says he understands and warps away with Unohana. That's the end.


Ichigo and Unohana going together, I bet Rukia won't just stay their and watch Ichigo leave. heheelq7.png

#920 alphabet

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 04:20 PM

ummmm idk bleach stuff --Click here to view--
UNOHANA! UNF! YES! god, it's about time this lovely lady showed up to kick some serious ass. Kubo's been promising us a serious fight with her (the third strongest captain, just barely behind Aizen and Yamamoto) for quite a while now.


also! IT'S ABOUT TIME YOU COME BACK, ULQUIORRA? YEAH?

fackin' yeah.
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