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#901 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:16 AM

QUOTE (Poison_In_Your_Coffee @ Dec 28 2012, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe Kishi doesn't want to make it seem that Hinata is Naruto's second choice whom he chose just coz Sakura got together with his best friend?

Maybe not Naruto had so many chances to move on from Sakura, he will have to explain, there's no escape, he stated to Sai that he loves Sakura, and even on that confession arc(even on this arc Naruto was accepting her confession until she bought up Sasuke on it), he knew that Sakura loves Sasuke since part 1, it's not because of hinata that he suddenly will ignore his feelings for Sakura with ho reason, dont come up with "Sakura loves sasuke" as a reason for Naruto to move on, because he had 3 years, and even on part 2 he still pursued her.
There's no way he can make Hinata canon without breaking Naruto's heart there only two choices, Naruto realizing that she will never love resulting in a heartbreak and SS canon, or he seeing Sakura with Sasuke, SS canon.
There's no other way.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 29 December 2012 - 01:18 AM.

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#902 Poison_In_Your_Coffee

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:33 AM

QUOTE (Chucky-kun @ Dec 29 2012, 02:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This chapter was hinata development. But because hinata s goal was to be acknowledged by naruto, people are misinterpreting this as NH development.

How do you know? To clarify, how do you know that it is just to develope Hinata, not NH as well?

Thunderdome! It must be the Thunderdome. We don't need another hero... ine!

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 29 December 2012 - 01:37 AM.

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#903 dl316bh

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:39 AM

Also I just noticed your username and remind me never to let you fix me a drink.
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#904 Poison_In_Your_Coffee

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:45 AM

QUOTE (dl316bh @ Dec 29 2012, 01:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also I just noticed your username and remind me never to let you fix me a drink.

Deal. But only because I'm in a good mood because of that Tina Turner song.
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#905 dl316bh

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:06 AM

QUOTE (Poison_In_Your_Coffee @ Dec 28 2012, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Deal. But only because I'm in a good mood because of that Tina Turner song.

... Tina Turner?
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#906 BecauseYouLetRinDie

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:11 AM

It's kinda sad though, because basically if Naruto doesn't get with Sakura then he wasn't able to accomplish what Jiraiya and Obito were able to do. Get the girl of their dreams. THEY ALL GO FRIENDZONEDDD.
This is why I agree with the people saying this chapter is forced and goes against what Naruto stands for. Naruto almost gave up on himself, lost hope and even (this goes for the people who are saying Naruto has started having feelings for Hinata) given up on getting the girl of his dreams. All this just so Hinata COULD HAVE SOME DEVELOPMENT?! or is it because Kishi wants to make Naruhina canon? That is the true question. Not to mention they basically acted like neji's death wasn't as important, and instead made the Naruhina moment the highlight of the chapter. My god, no wonder Naruhina fans are rejoicing, and they have every right too. This moment was a legitimately proper chapter for them to be happy about.
I always thought Naruto's nindo was NEVER GIVING UP. HINATA said it herself, yet Naruto giving up on Sakura is TOTALLY contradicting. It's all up to kishi at this point. I'm not going to deny Naruhina becoming Canon at this point, but I certainly am not giving up on Narusaku.

#907 Poison_In_Your_Coffee

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:13 AM

QUOTE (dl316bh @ Dec 29 2012, 02:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
... Tina Turner?

My god! Have you not seen Mad Max number III? That is all I will say, for I am grossly offended at your ignorance. Shame on you!
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#908 dl316bh

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:32 AM

QUOTE (Poison_In_Your_Coffee @ Dec 28 2012, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My god! Have you not seen Mad Max number III? That is all I will say, for I am grossly offended at your ignorance. Shame on you!

That's not it. I thought you mistook something in the trailer I posted as Tina Turner when it was Queen. I knew what you meant when you were talking about Thunderdome.

Edited by dl316bh, 29 December 2012 - 02:32 AM.

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#909 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:47 AM

Now that Hinata got her development who do you think is the next character that is going to be focused/receive development?

My ratings of the likeliness of characters getting develpment are:
Shikamaru (highly likely)
Chouji (likely but not as much as Shikamaru)
Rock Lee(likely)
Shino (unlikely)
Kiba(unlikely)
Tenten(probably not)
Hinata (done)
Ino (? I don't know Kishi's take on her character. She's obviously more important compared to Shino, Tenten, Kiba, Neji and the likes with her father being the main messenger of the alliance, having her teacher killed, being a member of team 10, saving the most dangerous moments (Asuma killing Chouji, Sealing the kyuubi in the pot, changing direction of bijuu-dama))
Sakura (saved for last)

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 29 December 2012 - 02:47 AM.

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#910 Candleguy

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:55 AM

My biggest problem with the chapter is Naruto saying "You've always been by my side?"

Where did that come from? Naruto was rewriting history there

#911 dl316bh

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:01 AM

QUOTE (Candleguy @ Dec 28 2012, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My biggest problem with the chapter is Naruto saying "You've always been by my side?"

Where did that come from? Naruto was rewriting history there

"I finally realized Hinata. I finally get it. You've always been with me... ten feet away hiding behind a fence."

Edited by dl316bh, 29 December 2012 - 03:03 AM.

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#912 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:03 AM

QUOTE (Candleguy @ Dec 29 2012, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My biggest problem with the chapter is Naruto saying "You've always been by my side?"

Where did that come from? Naruto was rewriting history there

I agree with that. After that Naruto said, "Neji, thanks to you too". So granted, it wasn't only about Hinata. But when has Neji and Hinata ever been at his side constantly?

I'll just read it as "Thanks for having faith in me all along."

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 29 December 2012 - 03:10 AM.

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#913 Greed-Sama

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:05 AM

QUOTE (dl316bh @ Dec 28 2012, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"I finally realized Hinata. I finally get it. You've always been with me... ten feet away hiding behind a fence."


I think that's a little generous, bro.

More like twenty.

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#914 ICEmanJC

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:06 AM

Just a reminder for us NarukSaku fans:





#915 ALESSE

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:07 AM

QUOTE (Eclair @ Dec 29 2012, 02:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's kinda sad though, because basically if Naruto doesn't get with Sakura then he wasn't able to accomplish what Jiraiya and Obito were able to do. Get the girl of their dreams. THEY ALL GO FRIENDZONEDDD.
This is why I agree with the people saying this chapter is forced and goes against what Naruto stands for. Naruto almost gave up on himself, lost hope and even (this goes for the people who are saying Naruto has started having feelings for Hinata) given up on getting the girl of his dreams. All this just so Hinata COULD HAVE SOME DEVELOPMENT?! or is it because Kishi wants to make Naruhina canon? That is the true question. Not to mention they basically acted like neji's death wasn't as important, and instead made the Naruhina moment the highlight of the chapter. My god, no wonder Naruhina fans are rejoicing, and they have every right too. This moment was a legitimately proper chapter for them to be happy about.
I always thought Naruto's nindo was NEVER GIVING UP. HINATA said it herself, yet Naruto giving up on Sakura is TOTALLY contradicting. It's all up to kishi at this point. I'm not going to deny Naruhina becoming Canon at this point, but I certainly am not giving up on Narusaku.


Totally agree with you there. This whole manga is about naruto one way or another doing what his predecessors weren't able to achieve. Whether its completing the rasengan, perfect form of sage mode, saving a friend, and winning the girl of his dreams. His whole character is based upon the whole stubborn attitude of "never giving up/Never going back on his ninja way" that it wouldn't make sense if narusaku didn't happen. I mean look at the parallels the hints the small moments the 10+ years of development that can't just be ignored. Kishimoto knows what his doing and there is no way that he s going to resolve such a issue this soon and in such a manner. Hes the biggest troll out there. I mean look at it this way he did say that he was gonna have all of our fav characters shine right. Hinata had her moment. He wanted to inspire him. Fight with him help him, hold his hand and well all that's left for her to do is to stop like she said. Then I figure shikamaru will get his time to shine and be his right hand man, He is the one who's gonna put the plan into action,then the others all the way up to Sakura, like they said in 573. Sakura is still the main heroine, she ll have her time. And it'll be epic. This is where all the support characters get there moments then their roles will be pretty much done and over with, am I right, what's left after this war for them to do. Naruto will accomplish every one of his goal and he will get his girl. This was just the same one sided moment it always is with hinata. And a good way to keep the drama flowing, and keep everyone in there seats.

Side notes, I speak alil Japanese, lived there for 4 years as a kid. When he said "thank you for being by my side this whole time". In jap hiragana it means just that. "This" whole time. As in this moment. This whole course of events with " from getting here to fighting alil, to defending me to neji getting killed to helping me keep my composure and telling me the words to keep going" that's it. The translation makes it seem a lot deeper and much more intimate than it really is.

Am I saying that naruhina is impossible. Noo.
But that narusaku is still the front runner in my eyes and will be end game. Just gotta look underneath the underneath like kishimoto said in TE beginning. Sorry if there's some crammed issues did this on my iPhone while driving lolz

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#916 Don-kun

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:09 AM

QUOTE (Eclair @ Dec 28 2012, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's kinda sad though, because basically if Naruto doesn't get with Sakura then he wasn't able to accomplish what Jiraiya and Obito were able to do. Get the girl of their dreams. THEY ALL GO FRIENDZONEDDD.
This is why I agree with the people saying this chapter is forced and goes against what Naruto stands for. Naruto almost gave up on himself, lost hope and even (this goes for the people who are saying Naruto has started having feelings for Hinata) given up on getting the girl of his dreams. All this just so Hinata COULD HAVE SOME DEVELOPMENT?! or is it because Kishi wants to make Naruhina canon? That is the true question. Not to mention they basically acted like neji's death wasn't as important, and instead made the Naruhina moment the highlight of the chapter. My god, no wonder Naruhina fans are rejoicing, and they have every right too. This moment was a legitimately proper chapter for them to be happy about.
I always thought Naruto's nindo was NEVER GIVING UP. HINATA said it herself, yet Naruto giving up on Sakura is TOTALLY contradicting. It's all up to kishi at this point. I'm not going to deny Naruhina becoming Canon at this point, but I certainly am not giving up on Narusaku.


The only s thing I can say Eclair is that Kishimoto had all the change to make naruhina completely canon in our eyes but he didn't.

Naruto could have bien given a panel showing where he start to love Hinata the same way but he didn't.
Sakura panel was not necessary, but he place it there for readers to expect a reaction from Sakura.
He could make Naruto tall to her face to face or even make him blush but he didn't.

Kishimoto could of done Many things to solidify the paring, again he didn't why?

NH got a huge moment NS also did, but with out any confirmation from the person that is being loved it cannot be called that yet.
Plus I don't believe Kishi just wanted to resolved a pairing without making the other parties feelings clear, NH will be beaked or it will be canon, right now it as a 50/50 chance, one of this two outcome will become a reality in the next 1 or 2 chapters, but by it self it currently is on a better position than NS since nothing happen between then yet.

We just need to wait and find out what will be the outcome of NH, because you have to admit that even that the pairing had a lot off massive development, it was not confirmed for some odd reason.

Edited by Don-kun, 29 December 2012 - 03:13 AM.


#917 James S Cassidy

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:27 AM

QUOTE (Codus N @ Dec 28 2012, 08:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I understand where you're coming from, from a profit standpoint. But note that I also said the ratings. Keep in mind that JUMP mangas have a very stiff competition, so Naruto's profits might not even matter much to the magazine as a whole. What I'm saying is that JUMP mangas already bring in huge amount of profits if you combine all the mangas' profits currently in the magazine.

They might not even feel Hinata requires more media exposure as she's already popular on her own. So, that leaves one thing: the ratings.

As Kishi's editors' job is to make the rating of the manga as high as possible, that means they're probably more focusing on the ratings. Sure, it would be great if it brings in more profits, but to them, or some, the ratings might be slightly higher than the profits on priority. And, after all, higher ratings will lead to more profit, no?? that's why I said Hinata doesn't necessarily have to be given more media exposure. Who knows, Sakura appearing in adverts more than her might even be the editors' effort to keep her relevant.


Ah, see now that's more accurate, but with that being said you're going into a territory on quantitative vs qualitative market value.

I am going to paste a section from Wikipedia:
Value in marketing can be defined by both qualitative and quantitative measures. On the qualitative side, value is the perceived gain composed of individual's emotional, mental and physical condition plus various social, economic, cultural and environmental factors. On the quantitative side, value is the actual gain measured in terms of financial numbers, percentages, and dollars.


The problem is we're not sure how much influence an editor truly has. He is not the writer, but merely the consultant. He may give creative ideas, but does he have the power to override the writer if they feel it makes more money to do it their way? If that's the case, then what's the point of a writer? If you have an idea that gets a great reaction out of the people watching, repeating that same idea, the quality of the product is going down. This affects the profits from a long standpoint. Yeah you can make that quick buck, but what if it hurts the story in the long run? That qualitative value goes down the tubes and then you lose a lot more profits.

So editors have to worry not just the short run, but the long run profits as well. They have to worry about the quality of the product as well with the popularity reaction to it. The popularity reaction changes like the waves of an ocean. So most of the time it is never constant and what might be popular one week will be dull the next. Then they have to maintain the quality of the manga.

Hinata is popular because of Naruto. Does she hold up on her own? Not as much. Every character has a popular crowd, but it's what they do that causes the reactions. For example, if a spin-off was made of Hinata I think she would get rather boring. She is cute, but she has no energy. At best, the only way she has energy is when she feeds off Naruto's energy and this chapter proved that. Naruto lacked that energy to be that hero and Hinata used that same energy to make herself be more important. That's why this chapter created such a reaction.

So at the cost of making the main character look worse, they made her look better and there are fans that see this. I don't think the editor can just ignore that side of the reactions. The editor just can't look at the NaruHina fans and the Hinata fans and say "Wow, we are doing a good job, let's keep this up." You would lose more than half the fanbase that way. They also have to be concerned about getting more new fans into the fray not just pleasing the old ones. They would be a bad editor if they only focused on one aspect of the fanbase.

Look at Rock Lee's Spin off series. Why did he get a spin-off? Because Rock Lee alone has energy that no other character has. He is corny and and over-ambitious which makes for pretty good moments. I see Rock Lee like the Sargent Johnson from Halo. He was in the background most of the time, but when he was there you know that either something funny, amazing, or very interesting was going to happen when he hit the screen. Rock Lee can stand on his own as a character too. He doesn't really need to hover around Naruto to get that popularity. In fact, I would say that if there was more fights of just him fighting an enemy, he would get even more popular.

Of course, the only way to test it is to give Hinata her own show that doesn't revolve around her hovering around Naruto and see how it fairs. I have a strong belief she wouldn't make it to a second season cause she is boring. She hardly fights and when she does she loses. Sakura too is like Rock Lee. She can be cool if Kishi would actually give her stuff to do. Look how popular she got when she fought Sasori.

It's like a huge balancing act. Wikipedia gave a good equation to sum it up:

Value = Benefits / Cost

So you can have the benefits of the NH fanbase when showing Hinata off, but the cost is so much. You have to undermine Naruto's character to give Hinata that boost. Rabid NH will only see the bias of having NH canon. While I do have a bias for NS, I try to strive for the more quality the manga as a whole rather than getting what I want. That's why I converted from being a NH to an NS fan. I used to be an NH fan when I saw how cute she was and how she loved him and such, but after seeing how good NS interact and how more sensible they were together I lost interest in NH.

If the cost outweigh the benefits, then you're doing something wrong. That's why Hinata could never stand on her own as a popular character. She needs Naruto to define her and to give her that energy at the sacrifice of diminishing his character.

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#918 Namaenash

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:32 AM

QUOTE (ramenanmitsu @ Dec 29 2012, 03:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now that Hinata got her development who do you think is the next character that is going to be focused/receive development?

My ratings of the likeliness of characters getting develpment are:
Shikamaru (highly likely)
Chouji (likely but not as much as Shikamaru)
Rock Lee(likely)
Shino (unlikely)
Kiba(unlikely)
Tenten(probably not)
Hinata (done)
Ino (? I don't know Kishi's take on her character. She's obviously more important compared to Shino, Tenten, Kiba, Neji and the likes with her father being the main messenger of the alliance, having her teacher killed, being a member of team 10, saving the most dangerous moments (Asuma killing Chouji, Sealing the kyuubi in the pot, changing direction of bijuu-dama))
Sakura (saved for last)


I'm hoping it'll be Sakura, but judging from the way Kishi handle the war arc, she may not get any development at all ;( I hope I'm wrong. This isn't like pein arc or any other arcs where she gets occasional but important appearances.

My bet would be Lee and TenTen, since they haven't made any appearances yet in the war. Now that Neji is dead, they need to avenge him or make a resolution to their teammate's death.

Sorry to bring this up again, but I want to let it out of my chest.

One thing that bothers me if this chapter is meant to materialize NH is, how 'easy' it is for them to be together and how it look really forced. If to make a couple canon you need to kill of a character (Neji is dead, NejiHina chance is gone --the pairing is more popular in Japan) and create just one single defining moment for the other person to reciprocate, it's just ... doesn't fit the context of the theme in Naruto.
He was so much stronger mentally during Pein Arc, why suddenly he regress? If we refer back to Gaara fight, finding Tsunade Arc, POAL, or Pein Arc for instance, it took so much just to make Naruto and Sakura closer a tiny bit. Such that by the end of the arc, we always want to pat Naruto on his back that he did a great job, and all the troubles are worth it. And at the same time support him to win her heart next time.

This chapter was sort of the opposite. There's no really a 'fight' to be closer, only a trigger based on other character's death. The build up for Hinata to be together with Naruto isn't really something that I could relate with as well. I'm a woman, but I can relate myself to Naruto's attempt to win Sakura's heart by doing a lot of selfless acts for her. I can relate to Sakura when she pleaded to Sasuke to not leave Konoha, I can relate to Naruto and Sakura during POAL.

I find it hard to relate myself to Hinata's confession or this chapter. Simply because it's too 'easy' , no actual 'fight' to get there...

I'll wait and see the upcoming chapters. It would be an effort to materialize NH on certain conditions, in my opinion... If Sakura is comfortable seeing them together and have no problem seeing her place in Naruto's heart is taken by someone else, AND if Naruto show no emotion in moving on without concluding her feeling to Sakura, or not thinking about Sakura at all.

if we see otherwise, then I'm quite positive this chapter is written to increase the tension in pairing department. Meaning all those build up chapters and other Kishi products (RtN for instance), is still making sense.

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"I'm sorry I didn't believe. But I'd given up believing in so much, until I met you. From the first day I saw you, you were everything I ever wanted to believe in. You can do this, Diana. I know you can...But I have to go."

"What? What are you saying?"

"It's okay, this is what I came here to do. I can save today, but you... you can save the world."


#919 Qia

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:32 AM

QUOTE (ramenanmitsu @ Dec 28 2012, 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree with that. After that Naruto said, "Neji, thanks to you too". So granted, it wasn't only about Hinata. But when has Neji and Hinata ever been at his side constantly?

I'll just read it as "Thanks for having faith in me all along."


I honestly think that's what he meant smile.gif. It makes sense that way, especially since he's basically thanking Neji as well. I wouldn't be surprised if he does this for everyone in the end.

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#920 4000TMNT

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:37 AM

Why do we have to quickly summit every time that Hinata gets some panel time.

Remember all that development of NaruSaku of part 2, you know the the first meeting, Naruto blushing over Sakura's New medical skills, Sai tease, Yamato unfinished sentence, Sakura offer to feed Naruto, the big hug scene, and sai question to Naruto about his feelings for Sakura.

Nobody thought that Sakura still had feelings for Sasuke during that time, but from all those moments it got reveled that she still does.

Kishi is not gonna make Sakura fall in love with Naruto without undressing Sakura's feelings for Sasuke yet..

But when NaruHina got some scenes, we must wave the white flag and declare that Naruto has feeling for Hinata (despite no scene shown that yet).

If NaruSaku got all those moments and Sakura still got some unfinished feelings for Sasuke, it's safe to say that Naruto still loves Sakura.

Kishi never lets a plot point be unfinished, why would he let NaruSaku be the only one.

Remember NARUHINA GOT IGNORED FOR OVER 100 CHAPTERS, and people think kishi is done developing NaruSaku, please.




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