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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#9161 TerrorKing

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:25 PM

Some people have speculated that at some point we might see a scenario similar to the 2011 OVA. Some argue that this would serve as a major breakthrough for Naruto and Sakura's relationship, because the prospect of losing Naruto forever would cause Sakura to do a lot of soul searching and thus  finally realize the depth of her feelings for Naruto, i.e. romantic love.

 

I'm sorry if that all sounds extremely contrived and addlebrained. I just want to make sure that I have understood this correctly.  :sweatdrop:  

 

Anyway, isn't this scenario somewhay based upon the idea that Sakura takes Naruto for granted? I know that it is a basic human fault that we never really appreciate someone until they're gone forever, but I think the whole "We've all been taking Naruto for granted" problematic" has already been resolved during the kage summit arc. 

 

It's clear to me that Sakura greatly appreaciates Naruto and that she wants to do everything she can to support him. Her speech in 630 supports that. 

 

It could also be that I'm reading way too much into this and that the core of this idea lies with the soul searching part. Sakura's thought process would be something like "Naruto's gone. But...I kinda like him...In fact, I actually love him!"

 

Yes, I know. I'm a terrible writer.  :P

 

I would actually like it if something like that happened. It would probably be a very dramatic moment, something that NS isn't really known for, but I also feel that it would be necessary. If either Naruto or Sakura doesn't do something to open up this can of worms, then I don't think their relationship will ever go anywhere.  

 

 

Good post though I meant what already happened. Like did 437 gives you abandon ship feeling even if you stick by it? Did 615 give you that? Oh ho, I know tons on that one.

No, not even 615, because I didn't see any signs that Naruto was starting to fall in love with Hinata. If something like that ever happens, then I will begin to seriously doubt the possibility of NS becoming canon. 

 

I will probably still ship NS though. I just love Naruto and Sakura too much.  :wink:


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#9162 Fairy Tail Fantard

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:36 PM

Some people have speculated that at some point we might see a scenario similar to the 2011 OVA. Some argue that this would serve as a major breakthrough for Naruto and Sakura's relationship, because the prospect of losing Naruto forever would cause Sakura to do a lot of soul searching and thus  finally realize the depth of her feelings for Naruto, i.e. romantic love.

 

I'm sorry if that all sounds extremely contrived and addlebrained. I just want to make sure that I have understood this correctly.  :sweatdrop:  

 

Anyway, isn't this scenario somewhay based upon the idea that Sakura takes Naruto for granted? I know that it is a basic human fault that we never really appreciate someone until they're gone forever, but I think the whole "We've all been taking Naruto for granted" problematic" has already been resolved during the kage summit arc. 

 

It's clear to me that Sakura greatly appreaciates Naruto and that she wants to do everything she can to support him. Her speech in 630 supports that. 

 

It could also be that I'm reading way too much into this and that the core of this idea lies with the soul searching part. Sakura's thought process would be something like "Naruto's gone. But...I kinda like him...In fact, I actually love him!"

 

Yes, I know. I'm a terrible writer.  :P

 

I would actually like it if something like that happened. It would probably be a very dramatic moment, something that NS isn't really known for, but I also feel that it would be necessary. If either Naruto or Sakura doesn't do something to open up this can of worms, then I don't think their relationship will ever go anywhere.  

 

 

No, not even 615, because I didn't see any signs that Naruto was starting to fall in love with Hinata. If something like that ever happens, then I will begin to seriously doubt the possibility of NS becoming canon. 

 

I will probably still ship NS though. I just love Naruto and Sakura too much.  :wink:

This^

 

Until I see any signs of Naruto moving on from Sakura, I'm ruling out the possibility of NH happening. Especially after 631. 

 

I'm sorry, NH fans, but you can make the excuse 'Naruto was joking' all you want. I've re-read that chapter fifty dozen times, and his facial expression doesn't give me the idea that he was joking. His face is solid with a serious look. There's not even a sign he could be joking.

 

So, until I'm proved wrong by Kishimoto, I'm going to continue saying NaruHina's ship just went under the water for good.


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#9163 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:40 PM

Nh = obirin
For me it's the ultimate insult.

  
For me the ultimate insult is Naruto's feelings downplay, but that's just bad too.

No, because in my head I can only imagine NS being happy together. NS not becoming canon won't make me stop ship them. To me, they make sense..canon or not. I started shipping them in the first place because I liked their relationship, not because I thought they would be canon..that just came along the way.
 
The strongest hesitation I had was the confession because I thought Sakura was simply being mean to Naruto(sillysilly), but that was probably because I hadn't been into the series for long and I was young(er). After I gave it some thought, I changed my mind and my shipping heart was solid.
 
Hope I got you right this time XD

That I do now. Thanks for the answers, everyone. Really good posts.

#9164 Shadow1275

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 01:43 AM

Some people have speculated that at some point we might see a scenario similar to the 2011 OVA. Some argue that this would serve as a major breakthrough for Naruto and Sakura's relationship, because the prospect of losing Naruto forever would cause Sakura to do a lot of soul searching and thus  finally realize the depth of her feelings for Naruto, i.e. romantic love.

 

I'm sorry if that all sounds extremely contrived and addlebrained. I just want to make sure that I have understood this correctly.  :sweatdrop:  

 

Anyway, isn't this scenario somewhay based upon the idea that Sakura takes Naruto for granted? I know that it is a basic human fault that we never really appreciate someone until they're gone forever, but I think the whole "We've all been taking Naruto for granted" problematic" has already been resolved during the kage summit arc. 

 

It's clear to me that Sakura greatly appreaciates Naruto and that she wants to do everything she can to support him. Her speech in 630 supports that. 

 

It could also be that I'm reading way too much into this and that the core of this idea lies with the soul searching part. Sakura's thought process would be something like "Naruto's gone. But...I kinda like him...In fact, I actually love him!"

 

Yes, I know. I'm a terrible writer.  :P

 

I would actually like it if something like that happened. It would probably be a very dramatic moment, something that NS isn't really known for, but I also feel that it would be necessary. If either Naruto or Sakura doesn't do something to open up this can of worms, then I don't think their relationship will ever go anywhere.  

 

 

No, not even 615, because I didn't see any signs that Naruto was starting to fall in love with Hinata. If something like that ever happens, then I will begin to seriously doubt the possibility of NS becoming canon. 

 

I will probably still ship NS though. I just love Naruto and Sakura too much.  :wink:

I agree, I don't think that she takes him for granted, more that she's a lot more carefull with putting herself out there. In part 1, every single time she put herself out there for Sasuke he rejected her. Then, when she confessed her "love" for him he flat out rejected her. Then, she started to show affection towards Naruto which he reciprocated for example the feeding scene and the hug scene after pain. However, when she confessed to him he didn't believe her and rejected it as untrue or not 100% as he thought that she still had feelings for Sasuke. Sakura really hasn't been successful at winning over the guy's she likes, everytime she put herself out there she got rejected which is probably why she hasn't been as open lately with her feelings. While that and there's a war going on...


Edited by Shadow1275, 01 October 2013 - 01:44 AM.

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#9165 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:22 AM

You know, looking at one tumblr post made me remember and now I think about it, it would seem SS was only in Sakura's head all this time. Nothing more than that. You can argue this, but this is my opinion and I want to share some of it.

 

Ok, I saw a post that talks about the time when Sakura talks to Naruto about Sasuke and Orochimaru. So after looking at that moment, it was a sweet NS moment. But I'm not here talking about that, I'm talking about the purpose of this whole SS from the FoD. Ok, we know how all the scenes from that arc, good and bad. Ok, that's good. Now then, something I just realized. I realized many, if not all since I do believe I should recap the manga soon, SS "moments" serve a purpose that is NOT for them, rather for the outside. Take for example from first arc. Ok, we got Sakura close to Sasuke and when Sasuke wakes up, it was suppose to stay with one direction, making a tender SS moment. But no, what really happens is make Sasuke curious on how in fact Naruto beat Haku, who was claimed to be the strongest in that field, hence have Sakura gives the explanation which Sasuke didn't understand.

 

Ok, so let's go to FoD. Sasuke got a new power and he loves it. Sakura stopped him. Now here's my problem. Sasuke was still fixated on his new power and then, tells her not to tell Naruto about the whole thing. So what is the problem? Easy, too focus on elsewhere. Why does this annoy me? Because first of all, don't you think, oh I don't know, say sorry for that. Naruto, KN4 incident, made more sense because he didn't know what happened and Sakura lied to him, so Naruto took his anger on Orochimaru, since Sakura did say it was him. Sasuke, "I can't let him know". You know how in relationship, where one person would get annoyed or upset that the other talks about another person more than anything? That's how this feels, except she's getting sidelined by bromance like 100% at a time. To make matter worse, he put her with a huge burden that Naruto can only help, but he was an ass and didn't do well enough to make everyone a-ok.

 

So what? Am I making that scene downgraded? Well, this is my opinion, so I will speak straight from my mind. I didn't downgrade it, I am uncovering the actual truth. Again, you can argue about it, but the problem is that SS wasn't really all that I would assume. I see more of S7 (Sasuke/Team 7). Why? The purpose for Sakura to be up and be the one to stop him is because of couple of reasons:

 

  1. She only Team 7 member that's up to stop him, because in the preliminary round, it was confirmed that Team 7 is the one that he's trying to make them not worried about him. That's right, he combined her worries and Naruto's comment together.
  2. She was the one to carry the problem to herself because Kishi clearly wanted to make Naruto and Sasuke bond to go on strong WITHOUT worrying about one thing. It's like if we're in Walking Dead world and Sasuke got bitten but doesn't tell Naruto, of course Naruto and Sasuke will go on being best of friends. But once Naruto knows, he will have a shaky feeling because he will turn and pretty much lose his best friend. That's why Naruto was all cool with Sasuke and doesn't grow worry.
  3. When the time comes, such as Sasuke's betrayal, she will be the one to tell the truth about Sasuke to Naruto. You may be wondering why not Kakashi. To be honest, you may think it's far fetched but here's what I believed. One is that Kakashi was busy with Sasuke; two is that he's their sensei, he will keep it to himself and only two of them shares the secret; three, here's where the far fetched comes in, to make an NS moment. Yes, because when you think about it, why did Kishi wasted his time on creating panels of sad Sakura, only to be happy. Is there a point? While there is a hope up, that still not good enough for those panels, especially she only get broken when Sasuke leaves. So think about that.

Now people would argue with me about NS moments. Ah, but there's a problem with that. What is that? The moment stays within them, not elsewhere. Take the hug for example. Did Naruto or Sakura brought up Sasuke in the hug? Yes, I'm talking about the first one. Anyway, did it? No. Why the atmosphere/mood happened the way it did? Is it because someone besides those two were doing something romantic? Nope. Here's one that no one can break. Yamato's words. Did it refer to anyone besides Naruto? Nope. All about him. There are more, but noticed that they're on one focus. So yes, big difference.

 

Now, I'm not denying that Team 7 still means something to Sasuke, but the main point is that this SS "moments" are becoming more of transition and rather have a purpose that doesn't involve in love. Do you know why we don't get SS "moments" anymore in part 2? Because Sasuke has nothing to hide for Sakura or anything that she will have to carry to place on hold for Naruto. There's nothing to be done with them two. That's why in my opinion. So there you have it. Don't have to agree with me, just understand what I'm trying to say. I'm open up for questions.



#9166 Fairy Tail Fantard

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:45 AM

This is another argument from a NH fan.

 

Yes, joking. Take your time to read the raw Japanese translation, my dear. And as far as his facial expression goes, where you ask how he was joking; explain: where was the seriousness? He looked confused, hesitated, didn't blush or react bash fully like before: 

1. In the first panel on the right, starting from the second speech bubble, Minato says:

"Thanks for recovering Naruto [from illness]...I wonder if that could be Naruto's girlfriend?"

2. Now on to the second panel on the left.

Naruto says in the first (triple) speech bubble on the right:

"Um~"
"Huh?/Yeah?"
"Yeah!"

Important things to note here:•In the first bubble, "U~n" (translated as "Um~") indicates that Naruto is thinking about it.

3. In his second speech bubble, Naruto says:

"Well, something like that.../Well, something along the lines of that..."

Important things to note here:•"Maa sonna kanji datte..." is the romanization.


• The "datte" could refer to "dattebayo", as in Naruto's catchphrase. However, this could also have a different meaning. When "datte" comes at the end of a sentence, it usually means that someone is being quoted, as in "s/he said something like that". If looking at it this way, you get the following:

"Well, she said something like that.../Well, she said something along the lines of that..."

This a viable possibility due to the fact that Naruto could be paraphrasing Sakura's fake confession.


664086690_1145760.gif


#9167 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:03 AM

This is another argument from a NH fan.

 

Yes, joking. Take your time to read the raw Japanese translation, my dear. And as far as his facial expression goes, where you ask how he was joking; explain: where was the seriousness? He looked confused, hesitated, didn't blush or react bash fully like before: 

1. In the first panel on the right, starting from the second speech bubble, Minato says:

"Thanks for recovering Naruto [from illness]...I wonder if that could be Naruto's girlfriend?"

2. Now on to the second panel on the left.

Naruto says in the first (triple) speech bubble on the right:

"Um~"
"Huh?/Yeah?"
"Yeah!"

Important things to note here:•In the first bubble, "U~n" (translated as "Um~") indicates that Naruto is thinking about it.

3. In his second speech bubble, Naruto says:

"Well, something like that.../Well, something along the lines of that..."

Important things to note here:•"Maa sonna kanji datte..." is the romanization.


• The "datte" could refer to "dattebayo", as in Naruto's catchphrase. However, this could also have a different meaning. When "datte" comes at the end of a sentence, it usually means that someone is being quoted, as in "s/he said something like that". If looking at it this way, you get the following:

"Well, she said something like that.../Well, she said something along the lines of that..."

This a viable possibility due to the fact that Naruto could be paraphrasing Sakura's fake confession.

Yeah, nice try. Also, the last page says it all. Man, that chapter sure brings the difficulty to impossible at this rate.



#9168 megi

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:08 AM

.......................

 

「まあ、そんな感じだって…」- "Well, something like that..."

This is all that it says. Nothing more. I do not want people to read into this more than it should be. You do not have to hack at the Japanese language every single time to get a meaning out of it ^^. It is really colloquial to say it this way. Yes, the "って" is for casual quoting. I fail to see any of this as reasons why Naruto is joking, I never understood this argument.

 

no, it does not a shortened dattebayo.


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#9169 arian_rad

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:08 AM

Yeah, nice try. Also, the last page says it all. Man, that chapter sure brings the difficulty to impossible at this rate.


Let alone kishi going out of his way to include a comparison of kushina to sakura from minato himself. Sawyer said it best, minato took a 'flying thunder god poop' on naruhina and they still haven't gotten over it.

#9170 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:21 AM

.......................

 

「まあ、そんな感じだって…」- "Well, something like that..."

This is all that it says. Nothing more. I do not want people to read into this more than it should be. You do not have to hack at the Japanese language every single time to get a meaning out of it ^^. It is really colloquial to say it this way. Yes, the "って" is for casual quoting. I fail to see any of this as reasons why Naruto is joking, I never understood this argument.

 

no, it does not a shortened dattebayo.

Thank you.

 

Let alone kishi going out of his way to include a comparison of kushina to sakura from minato himself. Sawyer said it best, minato took a 'flying thunder god poop' on naruhina and they still haven't gotten over it.

He said that? Lol. That is actually true in a poop joke way.



#9171 arian_rad

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:04 AM

Thank you.
 
He said that? Lol. That is actually true in a poop joke way.


Oh he did, and he is a naruhina fan... Lol

#9172 morgaine4

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:06 AM

 

Women generally are not as strong as men anyway, so I fail to see how that makes Kishi sexist. Why does he show the men having a healthy fear of the women in their lives if he's sexist? A lot of the female characters have a very take control attitude that the male characters respect and there are female leaders too; Tsunade and Mei. Kisimoto has his faults, but I don't see him portraying the female gender as the lesser sex.

 

Biologically speaking, in most mammal species males are built for quick bursts of brute strength, while females are built for endurance.  Hyenas are an exception though, the females are built for brute strength and endurance, while the males are just super-submissive.  It's why when working out, in general men tend to gain bulky muscle, while women tend to gain long/lean muscles.

 

 

Haha, you're welcome!

 

I agree with the bolded. I think many writers are at fault when directing all focus mainly to a specific aspect of a character. For example, it's wrong for a writer to think, "Ok, now I'm going to come up with a cool male character." Doing this serves to reduce the character to nothing more than an aspect or archetype as well as serves to have the character's full potential never be truly realized. This is a shame for it's a way to miss one's chance to create a wonderfully complex character. In reality, people do not do things to further emphasize a certain aspect of themselves. Neither are we nothing more than mere archetypes. People have many, many layers to them. We have many aspects concerning our respective personalities. Some aspects come out more than others depending on our surroundings and who we are with. Of course everyone has their distinctive traits which makes up one's recognizable personality, but those traits do not necessarily define us as a whole concerning who we are. We are more than just a cluster of distinctive traits and quirks.

You used a wonderful example! Although I am not familiar with Stargate, it was a very neat and rather interesting example.

 

 

 

Yeah, I think it's this tendency that often leads to "token" characters --be it token female, token racial/sexual orientaiton minority-- etc etc.  I'm not one to demand that all fiction has a representative balance of genders, orientations (the whole scale of genders and orientations), racial makeup etc etc, but I think it's important that regardless of these details, characters are written as whole human beings.
 

 

I also feel as though, dare I say, she's one of the more realistic characters in the series bias alert. Maybe it is because she is one of the more "human" characters, if that makes sense.

 

Well, I agree, though like you I might be biased (but like I said, I like to think that I don't see things regarding Sakura because I want to see them, but rather because I see these things --and because as the story progresses and I've re-read and re-analyzed the story-- these aspects are the reason I like  her).



#9173 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:20 AM

Oh he did, and he is a naruhina fan... Lol

Yeah I know. Just didn't think he would say it like that. Lol.

You know, I wonder if anyone checked the post I written about one moment but maybe everyone knows already and I'm only adding salt to the wound.

#9174 redragon88

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:17 AM

 

Biologically speaking, in most mammal species males are built for quick bursts of brute strength, while females are built for endurance.  Hyenas are an exception though, the females are built for brute strength and endurance, while the males are just super-submissive.  It's why when working out, in general men tend to gain bulky muscle, while women tend to gain long/lean muscles.

 

What do you mean with females being built for endurance? Is it that they can run for longer periods of time?

 

Although it's true that men can gain bulky muscle easier it really depends on the training you do. If men were not able to also gain lean muscle then there wouldn't be any male competitive swimmers.

 

I've hear about the hyena matriarchy, the guys do hard it hard there. Maybe it was in reference of it that they made the Hyena boss in Lion King to be the girl. Being a male hyena is suffering.



#9175 Superman333

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:54 AM

You know, looking at one tumblr post made me remember and now I think about it, it would seem SS was only in Sakura's head all this time. Nothing more than that. You can argue this, but this is my opinion and I want to share some of it.

 

Ok, I saw a post that talks about the time when Sakura talks to Naruto about Sasuke and Orochimaru. So after looking at that moment, it was a sweet NS moment. But I'm not here talking about that, I'm talking about the purpose of this whole SS from the FoD. Ok, we know how all the scenes from that arc, good and bad. Ok, that's good. Now then, something I just realized. I realized many, if not all since I do believe I should recap the manga soon, SS "moments" serve a purpose that is NOT for them, rather for the outside. Take for example from first arc. Ok, we got Sakura close to Sasuke and when Sasuke wakes up, it was suppose to stay with one direction, making a tender SS moment. But no, what really happens is make Sasuke curious on how in fact Naruto beat Haku, who was claimed to be the strongest in that field, hence have Sakura gives the explanation which Sasuke didn't understand.

 

Ok, so let's go to FoD. Sasuke got a new power and he loves it. Sakura stopped him. Now here's my problem. Sasuke was still fixated on his new power and then, tells her not to tell Naruto about the whole thing. So what is the problem? Easy, too focus on elsewhere. Why does this annoy me? Because first of all, don't you think, oh I don't know, say sorry for that. Naruto, KN4 incident, made more sense because he didn't know what happened and Sakura lied to him, so Naruto took his anger on Orochimaru, since Sakura did say it was him. Sasuke, "I can't let him know". You know how in relationship, where one person would get annoyed or upset that the other talks about another person more than anything? That's how this feels, except she's getting sidelined by bromance like 100% at a time. To make matter worse, he put her with a huge burden that Naruto can only help, but he was an ass and didn't do well enough to make everyone a-ok.

 

So what? Am I making that scene downgraded? Well, this is my opinion, so I will speak straight from my mind. I didn't downgrade it, I am uncovering the actual truth. Again, you can argue about it, but the problem is that SS wasn't really all that I would assume. I see more of S7 (Sasuke/Team 7). Why? The purpose for Sakura to be up and be the one to stop him is because of couple of reasons:

 

  1. She only Team 7 member that's up to stop him, because in the preliminary round, it was confirmed that Team 7 is the one that he's trying to make them not worried about him. That's right, he combined her worries and Naruto's comment together.
  2. She was the one to carry the problem to herself because Kishi clearly wanted to make Naruto and Sasuke bond to go on strong WITHOUT worrying about one thing. It's like if we're in Walking Dead world and Sasuke got bitten but doesn't tell Naruto, of course Naruto and Sasuke will go on being best of friends. But once Naruto knows, he will have a shaky feeling because he will turn and pretty much lose his best friend. That's why Naruto was all cool with Sasuke and doesn't grow worry.
  3. When the time comes, such as Sasuke's betrayal, she will be the one to tell the truth about Sasuke to Naruto. You may be wondering why not Kakashi. To be honest, you may think it's far fetched but here's what I believed. One is that Kakashi was busy with Sasuke; two is that he's their sensei, he will keep it to himself and only two of them shares the secret; three, here's where the far fetched comes in, to make an NS moment. Yes, because when you think about it, why did Kishi wasted his time on creating panels of sad Sakura, only to be happy. Is there a point? While there is a hope up, that still not good enough for those panels, especially she only get broken when Sasuke leaves. So think about that.

Now people would argue with me about NS moments. Ah, but there's a problem with that. What is that? The moment stays within them, not elsewhere. Take the hug for example. Did Naruto or Sakura brought up Sasuke in the hug? Yes, I'm talking about the first one. Anyway, did it? No. Why the atmosphere/mood happened the way it did? Is it because someone besides those two were doing something romantic? Nope. Here's one that no one can break. Yamato's words. Did it refer to anyone besides Naruto? Nope. All about him. There are more, but noticed that they're on one focus. So yes, big difference.

 

Now, I'm not denying that Team 7 still means something to Sasuke, but the main point is that this SS "moments" are becoming more of transition and rather have a purpose that doesn't involve in love. Do you know why we don't get SS "moments" anymore in part 2? Because Sasuke has nothing to hide for Sakura or anything that she will have to carry to place on hold for Naruto. There's nothing to be done with them two. That's why in my opinion. So there you have it. Don't have to agree with me, just understand what I'm trying to say. I'm open up for questions.

good post . I agree . 


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#9176 Superman333

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:58 AM

when's the next NS moment fina be .?


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#9177 Hanabi

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:00 AM

sasuke

i like ur walking dead references xD


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I can't even say good bye to you for the last time

I'm sorry


#9178 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:05 AM

good post . I agree . 

Thank you. :happy:

 

i like ur walking dead references xD

Lol. Thanks. It was my only way to describe how one moment can really shake your relationship.



#9179 morgaine4

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:36 AM

 

What do you mean with females being built for endurance? Is it that they can run for longer periods of time?

 

Although it's true that men can gain bulky muscle easier it really depends on the training you do. If men were not able to also gain lean muscle then there wouldn't be any male competitive swimmers.

 

I've hear about the hyena matriarchy, the guys do hard it hard there. Maybe it was in reference of it that they made the Hyena boss in Lion King to be the girl. Being a male hyena is suffering.

 

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#9180 redragon88

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:15 AM

 

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Very good points.

 

You seem to have good knowledge of biology and animals. Do I smell veterinarian aspirant? But maybe that's just me jumping to conclusions.






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