54216 replies to this topic

[SkiesEagle]

I still wonder why everybody hates our ship , and we respect their ship it just illogical to me

To understand that, in Part 1 Naruto, everyone see Sakura as annoying brat and a fan girl(sorry!). In the west, Naruto fandom watch anime FIRST before manga and view her as useless girl. Because of that, in anime Hinata appears first before Sakura. In Manga, Sakura appear first before Hinata. In Manga, same thing view her worthless, but then, in Shippuden, Sakura has change so suddenly when she get along with Naruto and they know each other in team. Anime and Manga have the similar plot to follow but different because fillers. That's what I believe so.

 

I am from the west and gladly being fan of NaruSaku because when I read in Manga, I can able to understand clearly to see the development between those two. I feel so small being fan of NaruSaku in the west because so much hate from the west from different Naruto fandom shipping.

[Branden]

I still wonder why everybody hates our ship , and we respect their ship it just illogical to me

Don't take this the wrong way but that is irrelevant to this thread. Trying to interpret human philosophy and thought process has no relevance to NaruSaku. No matter how many or how often people hate on our ship it won't change the manga, it won't change all of the development and all of the support Kishi has given us for our ship.

 

I, as well as many others on this forum, have discussed and read about nearly every single topic that there is to discuss about this manga and we, more than almost anyone else, know that this pairing will be canon.

[morgaine4]

It's funny you say that because this situation has certainly occurred in history. At the beginning of the Revolutionary War, the colonists planned to gain their independence and freedom not by necessarily winning the war, but by outliving the British which proved to be successful in many ways. Take the Battle of Bunker Hill as an example. It was surely a major battle. The British ended up seizing the hill and, technically speaking, defeated the colonists in this battle. However, they did not necessarily win per say. They suffered major losses (I think nearly three times as many casualties as the colonists) while the colonist didn't experience losses nearly as large in this specific battle. Such immense losses made it not seem like a win at all. They seized the hill from "inexperienced" colonies at the cost of many lives. The plan to outlive the British was working. wow kind of off-topic oops.

 

Off topic or not, that's super interesting and I should have known/remembered that.  Thank you!

 

 

As for the bolded, that is an interesting view point for that seems to be a logical reason as to why he has this "problem" concerning females. When creating Sakura, he most likely first thought of how he needed to create a heroine to complete his story and just went from there, thus first focusing on the gender more than anything else.

 

It's something we talk about in terms of cultural competency, or in terms of working with patients/clients who are different from us in some way --that no matter their gender, religion, ethnicity/race, age etc etc-- we must remember that before all that they are people.  I think quite a few (male) writers --not just Kishi-- have this problem with females characters, even the idea of writing a "strong female character" is wrong, IMO, it's just important to write characters.  I don't know if you or anyone else in here is familiar with Stargate SG 1, but early season one the character who is female Samantha Carter is quite the stereotypical strong, female character.  She's written so that the fact that she's strong and female is constantly brought up, she's written so that she has reasons to find misogyny in nearly all situations.  The actress, Amanda Tapping, eventually went to the writers and asked her to write the character as they would any of the males and that she would add in the feminine touches and that really worked.  They wrote her as a character first, and eventually they started to give her more gendered stories but because the character had already been established, it didn't take over the entirety of a person.  Sometimes authors (often male authors) are so busy writing a specific type of "female character" that they forget that said female character will have other aspects to her character.  Lol.

 

I do agree that Kishi probably wrote Sakura to fill in the role as heroine, to fill in the "female" spot, but ultimately I think he did a pretty great job to show other aspects of her character.  She isn't just a fangirl, she isn't focused solely on romance, there's room for improvment (there always is), but I think she's a pretty well-written character.

[Hanabi]

This is clearly naruto and sakura in lion disguise.

 

Maybe we can remove the health care for the people that say she "can only heal" and ask them what they say then

i second this defensive feats always seem less impressive than offensive feats...

[redragon88]

 

Seems more like she's telling him to get off his lazy lion ass. Then again even in that scenario Naruto and Sakura would fit perfectly.

 

-Naruto as Hokage is given a bunch of paperwork to sort though the day

-5 minutes later he gives up and goes to eat ramen

-Sakura finds him and pulls him back from the ear while telling to take the administrative side of his job seriously

-Naruto tells her to do that part for him and she pulls his ear even harder

 

 

Maybe we can remove the health care for the people that say she "can only heal" and ask them what they say then

 

I do wish sometimes that Madara or Obito would point out the annoyance of their enemies not staying down because of the healers, with Sakura as the main one. I'm sure if something like that happened even stupid people would understand the essence of having healers around.

 

The best way to show how essential someone is in a battle is to show the villains notice how their actions are interfering with their plans. If they took issue with the alliance recovering I'm sure there would be less haters.

 

The problem is that the alliance is irrelevant for them. Madara didn't care about anyone before Hashirama arrived, and Obito is only fixated on taking down Naruto. Since Hashi is an edo healing is irrelevant for him, so the only hope of Sakura having any sort of effect on the villains is if Naruto gets critically injured once again and Obito is there to see it and have a small villain moment where he thinks he's finally put Naruto down only for him to look at Sakura healing him and be angered by it.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

 

the  truth is kishi is sexist he puts girls weaker than boys

 

Women generally are not as strong as men anyway, so I fail to see how that makes Kishi sexist. Why does he show the men having a healthy fear of the women in their lives if he's sexist? A lot of the female characters have a very take control attitude that the male characters respect and there are female leaders too; Tsunade and Mei. Kisimoto has his faults, but I don't see him portraying the female gender as the lesser sex.

[BlueStarSaber]

I found this doujin that of NaruSaku that could happen later in the manga take a look http://www.youtube.c...h?v=xlm5K7GGpWU

 

[Psychox]

 

Women generally are not as strong as men anyway, so I fail to see how that makes Kishi sexist. Why does he show the men having a healthy fear of the women in their lives if he's sexist? A lot of the female characters have a very take control attitude that the male characters respect and there are female leaders too; Tsunade and Mei. Kisimoto has his faults, but I don't see him portraying the female gender as the lesser sex.

 Yup, physically not, but that doesn't mean that women are weak ,not by a long shot.  What some folk fail to see is that this is a Shonen, so its natural that the author will concentrate more on the boys in fighting then girls taking roles  , although we have Sakura kick some villains around and hell, even major ones , same goes for Tsunade .  Kushina has been portrayed fully capable of tossing people around, she had the kyuubi inside her ,plus,  Minato and Naruto got some sense smacked in to them , so no, i think he isn't a sexist .

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Actually, I think SS still has a slight chance of happening. But I'm 100% positive it's time to bury NH.

 

I consider it the opposite. There is nothing that makes me believe SasuSaku has even the slightest chance, the whole series that pairing has been so painfully one sided and shows absolutely no signs of changing in that way, the relationship is going nowhere fast and continually loosing ground on the very precarious foothold of Sakura's lingering feelings. NaruHina on the other hand, could happen, but it would be abrupt and thrown together, but at least that pairing doesn't have the mountain of negativity that SasuSaku has. If NH had better and more consistant development, I'd probably support it to be honest, but only if NaruSaku was in turn less prevalent.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 30 September 2013 - 04:51 PM.

[deviouslyChaotic]

 

Off topic or not, that's super interesting and I should have known/remembered that.  Thank you!

 

Haha, you're welcome!

 

It's something we talk about in terms of cultural competency, or in terms of working with patients/clients who are different from us in some way --that no matter their gender, religion, ethnicity/race, age etc etc-- we must remember that before all that they are people.  I think quite a few (male) writers --not just Kishi-- have this problem with females characters, even the idea of writing a "strong female character" is wrong, IMO, it's just important to write characters.  I don't know if you or anyone else in here is familiar with Stargate SG 1, but early season one the character who is female Samantha Carter is quite the stereotypical strong, female character.  She's written so that the fact that she's strong and female is constantly brought up, she's written so that she has reasons to find misogyny in nearly all situations.  The actress, Amanda Tapping, eventually went to the writers and asked her to write the character as they would any of the males and that she would add in the feminine touches and that really worked.  They wrote her as a character first, and eventually they started to give her more gendered stories but because the character had already been established, it didn't take over the entirety of a person.  Sometimes authors (often male authors) are so busy writing a specific type of "female character" that they forget that said female character will have other aspects to her character.  Lol.

 

I do agree that Kishi probably wrote Sakura to fill in the role as heroine, to fill in the "female" spot, but ultimately I think he did a pretty great job to show other aspects of her character.  She isn't just a fangirl, she isn't focused solely on romance, there's room for improvment (there always is), but I think she's a pretty well-written character.

I agree with the bolded. I think many writers are at fault when directing all focus mainly to a specific aspect of a character. For example, it's wrong for a writer to think, "Ok, now I'm going to come up with a cool male character." Doing this serves to reduce the character to nothing more than an aspect or archetype as well as serves to have the character's full potential never be truly realized. This is a shame for it's a way to miss one's chance to create a wonderfully complex character. In reality, people do not do things to further emphasize a certain aspect of themselves. Neither are we nothing more than mere archetypes. People have many, many layers to them. We have many aspects concerning our respective personalities. Some aspects come out more than others depending on our surroundings and who we are with. Of course everyone has their distinctive traits which makes up one's recognizable personality, but those traits do not necessarily define us as a whole concerning who we are. We are more than just a cluster of distinctive traits and quirks.

You used a wonderful example! Although I am not familiar with Stargate, it was a very neat and rather interesting example.

 

As for the last part of your post, I agree. I feel as though Kishi did a good job concerning Sakura. He has his moments where he effectively demonstrates realistic situations in which she is in and he does a good job at portraying her understandable emotions. I also feel as though, dare I say, she's one of the more realistic characters in the series bias alert. Maybe it is because she is one of the more "human" characters, if that makes sense.

[Psychox]

 

I consider it the opposite. There is nothing that makes me believe SasuSaku has even the slightest chance, the whole series that pairing has been so painfully one sided and shows absolutely no signs of changing in that way, the relationship is going nowhere fast and continually loosing ground on the very precarious foothold of Sakura's lingering feelings. NaruHina on the other hand, could happen, but it would be abrupt and thrown together, but at least that pairing doesn't have the mountain of negativity that SasuSaku has. If NH had better and more consistant development, I'd probably support it to be honest, but only if NaruSaku has in turn less prevalent.

 

SS hangs only on a speculative future, Sasuke's redemption.But that's Impossible , people believe that he will come to his senses and will reward Sakura for her patient love and later on fall in love with her. Problem is ,this is a nice guy thing i think none of is like and can be used for all pairings. Naruto going to Hinata and saying '' Are you still there?'' and fall in love. See,that would hurt not just character A ,but character B a lot more . Did some forgot Hinata witnessed NS hug + 631?How is she gonna believe suddenly Naruto fell out of love from Sakura and in surprisingly will return her feelings, how's that gonna happen? That would mean Naruto and Sasuke had feelings for those girls all along! Because some imply the do , which makes no sense. With Sakura -> Naruto we have hints,proves etc. to say the opposite .

I most certainly agree, NH would make a better end than SS , because the author has laid out some positive interactions and they became friends. It would be forced , but at least we don't have to ask why all the time . They share a nindo .
Sasuke and Sakura share two ... nothings. ^-^

Edited by Psychox, 30 September 2013 - 04:57 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

 

SS hangs only on a speculative future, Sasuke's redemption.But that's Impossible , people believe that he will come to his senses and will reward Sakura for her patient love and later on fall in love with her. Problem is ,this is a nice guy things i think none of is like and can be used for all pairings. Naruto going to Hinata and saying '' Are you still there?'' and fall in love. See,that would hurt not just character A ,but character B a lot more . Do some forgot Hinata witnessed NS hug + 631?How is she gonna believe suddenly Naruto fell out of love from Sakura and in surprisingly will return her feelings, how's that gonna happen? That would mean Naruto and Sasuke had feelings for those girls all along! Because some imply the do , which makes no sense. With Sakura -> Naruto we have hints,proves etc. to say the opposite .

I most certainly agree, NH would make a better end than SS , because the author has laid out some positive interactions and they became friends. It would be forced , but at least we don't have to ask why all the time . They share a nindo .
Sasuke and Sakura share two ... nothings. ^-^

 

To say they will get together simply because Sasuke is redeemed is wishful thinking, it's not like things were stellar between them prior to Sasuke's leaving, and I don't see Sakura's love as enduring as people like to make it out to be. She doesn't even trust the guy and her last mental image of him is surrounded by shadows and black flames. Not terribly promising.

[Question22]

Sakura never did understand Sasuke , Sasuke could easily break that bond between him and her , but with naruto its very hard to do it.

 

becuse naruto is hes best friend and they know each other

Edited by Question22, 30 September 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[Psychox]

 

To say they will get together simply because Sasuke is redeemed is wishful thinking, it's not like things were stellar between them prior to Sasuke's leaving, and I don't see Sakura's love as enduring as people like to make it out to be. She doesn't even trust the guy and her last mental image of him is surrounded by shadows and black flames. Not terribly promising.

 

Trouble is , this things tend to happen in Shojos and people are grasping to her love and go as far as saying this is true love but what Naruto says or does is nothing but a mere crush . Or ''she loved him so long , suffered .. bla bla bla .. she should be with the one who she loves''
That mental image of Sasuke glaring in the background , dripped in flames in the only 'SS ''development'' they've got in part 2 and is true love , but if asked what is 574 its just mere thoughts ... hmm..., Of course in you count the murder attempts as positive growth...
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut  what happens if Sakura changes her mind? Oh noes ! What happens if Sasuke doesn't want Sakura? Oh noes ! What happens is he favors Karin? Oh Noes!

The rest is obvious !
 

Edited by Psychox, 30 September 2013 - 05:25 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

You know, I have been thinking for a while and I believe ObiRin parallel is inevitable; however, it can happen at any time, whether in this volume or even in the next arc. Here's why:

 

This pairing, ObiRin, has been clouded throughout the arc and it's heavily similar to Naruto's story. That said this reference will be cover at anytime, anywhere. If it were to happen in this arc, there's way too many opportunities, such as learning about Naruto and Sakura connection, or Naruto talks about it when Obito already said his reason on the plan, or someone else (Kakashi or Minato) will draw a comparison to him, or however it pleases you. Will the parallel be used for plot development for Obito to understand the humanity once again? Will the parallel be an exclusive thought for us audience by having third party to draw the parallel (Ex. Tobirama compares Naruto/Sasuke to Hashirama/Madara)? These are of course unanswered.

 

Now, you may be wondering why I said, "Even in the next arc". I'll tell you. After this war is done, it's no doubt that Kakashi will be done with his development because Obito will die and Kakashi will be cleansed from regrets once and for all. Kakashi will be done, thanks to Naruto. Now, we will have Sasuke and Sakura left. That said if the parallel does not draw in this arc, it will in the next. How and why? If Minato sticks around, it will be him. If not, most definitely it will be Kakashi. Remember, Naruto wants to know the story of Obito because he can tell that Kakashi is hurt by him as well as they're friends. This will help Naruto to understand him because the next mission will be against Sasuke and surely, this will help to understand the broken bond, as Naruto will have to soon come to conclusion on his final action with Sasuke when it finally comes. That and the love because Kakashi was the first to see Obito to die, leaving all the hopes die with him, which is why he told Rin the stuff that Obito wanted to say. That will ring Naruto a bell, especially since Sakura is wondering what he meant, "Both of us will die."

 

Now, you'll probably thinking, "What's good to use parallel for the next arc if Obito is dead?" Well here's something that I realized in this arc. Take a look at the recent chapter and it says it all about the purpose of couple of chapters that revolves with Team 7. What is it? The buildup for the next arc. The lowdown:

 

 Naruto

• The peacemaker, a likeable guy, the savior, the man who is happy to work with his best friend, but know that they will be in a battlefield against each other, still in love with Sakura.
• The buildup: Naruto and Sasuke diversity of world peace, Hashirama/Madara 2.0
• Coming Soon: More of Naruto/Sasuke hype, love topic (reserved for Sakura)

Sasuke

• The wanted criminal, an unlikable guy, the ruler, the man who is upset to know his best friend is surpassing him without realizing, but know that he will be the one to kill him and will get the best of him, nothing to his friends.
• The buildup: Naruto and Sasuke diversity of world peace, Hashirama/Madara 2.0
• Coming Soon: More of Naruto/Sasuke hype, requesting for power-ups from Orochimaru asap, possible asking Naruto about Itachi.

Sakura

• A strong Kunoichi with great medical ability, pushes to help all, supporter of Naruto, teased with her and Naruto, wants to help him in any shape or form, the woman who is torn that her love isn't the best description of true love as she is being pushed to keep her relationship with Sasuke alive.
• The buildup: Chance of more Naruto/Sakura, parallels references to her and the "loser"/Minato, losing SS
• Coming Soon: Possible Naruto/Sakura moment, reference by ObiRin, the conclusion to SS, answer from "Both of us will die" by Naruto

 

Now then, as you can see, many of them can in fact be answered in this arc or the next arc. If it's this arc, it will be partial of them to get resolved. If another arc, all of them will be answered. The conclusion to SS can happen here or the next arc. If it happens here, it's the end, but don't think NS will be canon. It will just be a road to canon and that is something we will be on and just hope to reach to that destination. If it happens in the next, it's the same, but the destination will be much closer. As you can see above, the love topic can help Naruto to think for the next phase of his life and it will be reserved to do something about it. Will he confess earlier? Will he try not to die for he will leave unanswered confession? Hard to say, but it is something that he must think about it. Can't die if you're leaving your love behind. Now then, all of their buildups may or may not get resolved in this arc, but it definitely left them something for the next phase of the arc. So yes, ObiRin reference/parallel is pretty much inevitable.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 30 September 2013 - 06:52 PM.

[redragon88]

The mistake that can be done when choosing pairings is to take more into consideration personal desires instead of story progression.

 

As the story progresses it becomes clearer that Naruto and Sakura are the ones meant to get together if there's supposed to be a couple by the end. And if you choose to root for pairings as you experience the story go on you will inevitably gravitate towards NS.

 

Those who stick with NH and SS do so because they want it to happen for their own sake and not for the story's sake. They're the pairings that satisfy their personal desires and won't give them up because of it.

 

The problem that arises with that is finding yourself twisting the story and characters in order to satisfy your own desires. Even if the story clearly goes towards NS you'll be rationalizing it to be for NH and SS so that your personal needs are fulfilled.

[Psychox]

 

Those who stick with NH and SS do so because they want it to happen for their own sake and not for the story's sake. They're the pairings that satisfy their personal desires and won't give them up because of it.

 

The problem that arises with that is finding yourself twisting the story and characters in order to satisfy your own desires. Even if the story clearly goes towards NS you'll be rationalizing it to be for NH and SS so that your personal needs are fulfilled.

How right you are,buddy. ^-^
 

 

The mistake that can be done when choosing pairings is to take more into consideration personal desires instead of story progression.

 

As the story progresses it becomes clearer that Naruto and Sakura are the ones meant to get together if there's supposed to be a couple by the end. And if you choose to root for pairings as you experience the story go on you will inevitably gravitate towards NS.

Well, i kind of chose NaruSaku with the beginning of the series, i just saw them and i loved them together.. i just grew intoxicated with their character dynamics/interactions i guess .

[rocci]

@ns4life
Chapter 3 make me think that NS is canon, and chapter 599 make believe that narusaku will play VERY important role in this arc. I mean hides sakura in this arc to use her in this volume I believe.

Well I think the focus on the next few chapter will heavily on sakura. For me this is invetible even knowing kakashi who witness NS and obirin still in kamui dimension.

[TouKen4Life3g]

@ns4life
Chapter 3 make me think that NS is canon, and chapter 599 make believe that narusaku will play VERY important role in this arc. I mean hides sakura in this arc to use her in this volume I believe.

Well I think the focus on the next few chapter will heavily on sakura. For me this is invetible even knowing kakashi who witness NS and obirin still in kamui dimension.

That's true. I think Kakashi being absent prevented an easy TnJ for Naruto to gain because Kakashi knows Obito and knows his problems, especially, "You let Rin die." Even though Obito has a reason to commence his plan, the main drive is Rin. If Kakashi were to come back, Naruto would be doing more talking in his battle, but now, he wants to beat him down to the pulp. That said Obito is not going to learn anything from all this unless he hits the driving point.

I do believe this arc needs the parallel to be confirmed, but the purpose of it don't need to end there. As I said before, the only real closure will be Kakashi in this arc, but the others will be in process and if Sakura is closing SS and Naruto learns more about love, then it's only setting them up to get together when they least expected. Naruto won't even know that Sakura is done with Sasuke as well as Sakura not knowing Naruto would approach her. So yeah, but we'll see in this volume first.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Sakura never did understand Sasuke , Sasuke could easily break that bond between him and her , but with naruto its very hard to do it.

 

becuse naruto is hes best friend and they know each other

Sasuke already broke the bond he has with Sakura, the only bond he has is with Naruto and this was shown over and over, the only thing happens when he thinks about her, it's the team 7 thing and still Naruto is the focus of it.

Last time we saw he thinking about his bonds we could barely see Sakura it was focused on Naruto and his will to erase his past by killing Naruto, Sakura or even Kakash wasnt even take in account.