54216 replies to this topic

[deviouslyChaotic]

 

Okay, I'm kinda tired so I don't know how well I'll do with this but here goes.

 

We know Sakura had a crush on Sasuke in part 1, it is not proven to be love. She was twelve years old when she first confessed and Sasuke made it clear he does not return he feelings. And she said most recently about Sasuke "That he keeps getting further away from me and breaking my heart."

 

Yes, Hinata said she loved Naruto, but telling him how she felt was more to relieve the burden of keeping them to herself than in any hope he would return them. Hinata has not expressed any outright 'goal' to be with Naruto romantically. Period.

 

The only person Sakura has outwardly stated she loves in all of part 2 is Naruto, that's a pretty damn big 'hint'. But I forgot that doesn't count, since she was lying even though it was explicitly made clear she was lying about Sasuke, not her feelings. There are many, many numerous hints of Sakura's developing feelings, I just don't have the wherewithal to gather them all.

 

And I'm not even going to bother with the "Naruto's feelings haven't been proven", it so ridiculous for so many incalculable reasons, and deviouslyChaotic basically summed it up.

Bolded. This. So much THIS. You have no idea how much I agree with this statement.

Great post. I agree with everything you've stated.

[Strangelove]

They make from little to big thats what always bothers me

 

This is what a nh fan told me

 

:

 

I'm denying that it's proven.
We know that Sakura loves Sasuke as she stated that clearly. We know that Hinata loves Naruto since she also stated that clearly.

It was never proven that Sakura has any romantic feelings for Naruto. Not even a clear hint of such possibility.
It was never proven that Naruto loves Sakura. What was proven is a crush, but whether it had developed into love - that is up to the debate. It is possible but it was never proven to be a fact (Sai's opinion is merely Sai's opinion and he can easily be wrong).
It was also never proven that Naruto has any romantic feelings for Hinata. But it was proven to be perfectly possible now (chapter 615)

 

There's no way in hell Naruto would be as retarded as to seriously go for Sakura - since he had known for a long time that it's FUTILE.

 

This  is from mangafox the extreme super duper mega sugar spiced NaruHina fan (lol)

 

PS: If mods take this serious this isn't bashing just need help.

 

So what are your guys counter arguments on this?

 

What manga are they reading?

 

Of course Naruto wouldn't go for Sakura since is futile. I mean...pfft he never went after the impossible before, he always plays it safe and never takes risks. That is so In character with Naruto.

[Fairy Tail Fantard]

Okay, I'll take this on in steps.

They make from little to big thats what always bothers me

 

This is what a nh fan told me

 

:

 

I'm denying that it's proven.
We know that Sakura loves Sasuke as she stated that clearly. We know that Hinata loves Naruto since she also stated that clearly.

1) It was never proven that Sakura has any romantic feelings for Naruto. Not even a clear hint of such possibility.

 

2) It was never proven that Naruto loves Sakura. What was proven is a crush, but whether it had developed into love - that is up to the debate. It is possible

but it was never proven to be a fact (Sai's opinion is merely Sai's opinion and he can easily be wrong).

 

3) It was also never proven that Naruto has any romantic feelings for Hinata. But it was proven to be perfectly possible now (chapter 615)

 

4) There's no way in hell Naruto would be as retarded as to seriously go for Sakura - since he had known for a long time that it's FUTILE.

 

This  is from mangafox the extreme super duper mega sugar spiced NaruHina fan (lol)

 

PS: If mods take this serious this isn't bashing just need help.

 

So what are your guys counter arguments on this?

1) It is clear from her actions and concern for Naruto that she has feelings for him. Maybe not quite romantic, but it's out of strong friendship, which leads to a relationship. Read the character's movements, think about what they say. Sakura does not have to actually say that she loves Naruto, any good reader can tell by watching her react to certain things.

 

2) Okay, really?! This is a pure sign of desperation, not wanting to accept the truth or just hands down stupidity. I was a former NH fan myself, but it was clear as day to me that Naruto was in love with Sakura. Naruto shouldn't have to say anything to confirm he loves her, any decent person should be able to see it just from his facial expressions, the way he acts around her, and so on! It's as obvious as the sun on a clear day he loves her! And Sai's opinion doesn;t matter?! Then why put it in the damn manga?! 

 

3) Chapter 615? Oh, the chapter that had Naruto just drop three freakin' years of character development so Hinata could have some development of her own, only to lose it again at the end of the manga? Yeah...major props to you guys on that chapter. I don't think I've ever seen a bigger BS stunt in my life. The fact is that chapter proved nothing. It was forced, practically destroyed Naruto's development so Hinata could make a speech, only to lose her character development...again. I'll be so bold to say 615 was ANTI-NH if anything.

 

4) Well, then I guess he's been a full retard throughout this entire series. He went after her in part 1, and he's still going after her. Fact is he's not going to stop until he wins her heart. Better start living with that fact pretty soon, pall. Because he IS 'retarded' enough to go after Sakura. End of story.

Edited by Fairy Tail Fantard, 28 September 2013 - 01:38 AM.

[Fairy Tail Fantard]

You know how some NH fans say there's no romantic development between Naruto and Sakura? That may be so in U.S culture...but what about Japan?

 

Since the Japanese people are a little more strict on romance and stuff, wouldn't a lot of things that have happened between Naruto and Sakura be considered romantic? Like when she hugged him after the pain fight, when she tried to feed him, and probably even her confession.

 

These may not be romantic to the eyes of American culture for example, but to the Japanese people, it probably is romantic. 

 

So yes. Naruto and Sakura have romantic development....give or take.

[Question22]

You know how some NH fans say there's no romantic development between Naruto and Sakura? That may be so in U.S culture...but what about Japan?

 

Since the Japanese people are a little more strict on romance and stuff, wouldn't a lot of things that have happened between Naruto and Sakura be considered romantic? Like when she hugged him after the pain fight, when she tried to feed him, and probably even her confession.

 

These may not be romantic to the eyes of American culture for example, but to the Japanese people, it probably is romantic. 

 

So yes. Naruto and Sakura have romantic development....give or take.

 

 

THIS^

 

So true , lots of americans cant understand that this is a japanse anime , thats why they cant understand what a tsundere is , how a guy shows affection to a girl

hell even when the girl show effection to the guy , becuse in the japanse culture it always diffrent how you show romance.

For an example boys confess their love by actions , but girls confess with words  .

Edited by Question22, 28 September 2013 - 03:34 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

So.. all the hype about that infamous sketch, was just that? Just goes to show how things really can take on a life of their own and get completely misconstrued into something that hardly resembles the truth anymore.

This begs the question, who the heck spread the false information. Even I bought it with the civilian. Never I would thought that she wasn't really preset to begin with. People uses this argument countless times. Heck, you just saw one earlier. I can't believe I bought this lie. I just can't.

[morgaine4]

You know how some NH fans say there's no romantic development between Naruto and Sakura? That may be so in U.S culture...but what about Japan?

 

Since the Japanese people are a little more strict on romance and stuff, wouldn't a lot of things that have happened between Naruto and Sakura be considered romantic? Like when she hugged him after the pain fight, when she tried to feed him, and probably even her confession.

 

These may not be romantic to the eyes of American culture for example, but to the Japanese people, it probably is romantic. 

 

So yes. Naruto and Sakura have romantic development....give or take.

 

 

I'm spoiler tagging this because it's long, involves discussions of cultural outlooks on love and might be off topic

When I first explored the Naruto fandom online, I was shocked that there was a debate as to which couple would be the endgame pairing (if there was to be an endgame pairing).  I wasn't a NaruSaku fan at the time, I didn't dislike the pairing (as I did NH and SS), but because of my issues with the way females are presented in the manga --specifically females in relationships-- I didn't want the manga to end with Sakura being in a relationship.  I love her as a kunoichi, I love her as a badass medic, I love the tension my headcanon has created for her (and other combat medics) in terms of the two opposing natures of being a combat medic, and I just didn't want all of that to go to waste, if that makes sense, but I still realized that there was a 99.9% chance that the manga would end with NS.  For one thing, Naruto is going to get the girl.  Most people are sure that Naruto will become Hokage, most people are sure that Naruto will gain Sasuke's acknowledgement and will successfully lead Sasuke to redeem himself, so why is there a debate as to whether or not Naruto will succeed in wooing the girl he's been interested since the beginning?  Additionally, the writing for Naruto and Sakura, it was clear to me that the pair was written in such a way to show their compatibility --the fact that they could work well together in intimate instances.  Why else make it clear in part one that Inner Sakura --the real Sakura-- was so similar to Naruto, that an aspect of her growth would involve her ability to fully embrace her real self?  To me, it was obvious though I wasn't completely happy about it (a small part of me did want NS to be endgame, just because I felt it would be horrible writing for any other Naruto-centric couple to become endgame, but mostly I wanted Sakura to be single/focused on her professional career), but because I wasn't a shipper though I would debate for NS from a logical perspective I didn't take much time to explore the inner workings of shipping in the fandom, and I didn't spend too much time exploring why there was such a cultural divide between the Japanese fandom (and the Greater Asian fandom) vs. the American/Western fandom.

 

After becoming a shipper, however, I have explored what some explanations for this divide could be and I think a lot of it is cultural and not just limited to differing views on romance, but also a few other things.  I am Asian American (East Indian to be specific), and not Japanese American, so some of my examples will relate to Indian culture.  I want to make it clear, I'm not stating or assuming that Indian and Japanese cultures are identical or even similar, I'll just be posting some examples of how romance and love in other cultures are viewed extremely than they are in American culture.

 

• In Indian culture, while it is understood that love is a feeling, for the most part "love" is an action.  In the Indian languages that I know how to say "I love you," the exact translation would be "I am loving you" or "I am liking you" and even when saying "I love you" in English or using the English word "love," even though grammatically it's used properly the love is still thought of as "active," it's something that one is doing rather than something that one is feeling.  Love, in Indian culture, is about the feeling of love but the fact that you trust this person/these people implicitly, that you'll always have each others backs (though you'll reprimand each other in private if it's needed), you can show your worst side to the person you love, you don't have to say thank you, you can be open, honest, just be yourself and if that works with the other person, if you two understand each other then the love is real.
• One major cultural difference with respect to romantic love between the US and India is that in the US we have this idea that if you're head-over-heels in love with someone, you want to show that off.  PDA is considered sweet, if you love someone, you want to express it, you want to touch that person, you want to show that to the world.  In Indian culture, it is the very opposite.  If you are head-over-heels in love with someone, if it's real love, then you don't need to show it.  The people involved know what's going on.  It doesn't mean that the occasional public flirtation, secret/stolen looks, hand holding when crossing a busy street, hug, or placing an arm over one's shoulder is a sign that the love is less real, just that it's not necessary and when public displays of affection occur it should be for practical purposes (so that you don't get separated when in an over-crowded place), or because you're having so much fun interacting with each other than you block out the public/forget that you're in public and have an intimate moment (essentially, a private moment accidentally becomes a public moment).
• I have a feeling that this might be applicable to Japanese culture, but I'm not 100% sure.  In American culture when it comes to fictional romances, I feel that as a community we often prefer impractical, non-compatible love.  We like to watch a pair who would not work out in the real world, interact, come to an understanding while also not compromising their personalities, and ultimately working it out, ending up together, becoming a couple.  While impractical, non-compatible love is popular in fiction in many Asian cultures, as far as I know for the most part accross many Asian cultures these sort of love stories tend to be tragic.  One half of the pairing dies, both individuals die, the couple loves each other but can't be together for whatever reason etc etc.  In Asian cultures, in fiction compatible love, practical love more often than not gets the happy ending.  As a result, little moments that build up the foundation of a relationship is seen as romantic as much as or even more than the larger moments.  Working together, having the ability to work together, getting along, having respect/admiration for one another, understanding one another (learning to understand one another/being able to speak for one another/predicting one another's upcoming actions) that is romantic, but not so in the US.  In the US fiction, hugs, kisses, chemistry, lust, drama, angst, the need to reveal feelings/the need to be together at the wrong time, that's the preferred romantic story and while that's so in the East that's usually tragic.  I guess a simple way to state it is that while in the US fictional romance is often prefered among individuals who make it work despite not having a practical foundation for the relationship to work, while in Asian cultures successful fictional romantic relationships are shown to work because of the foundation built.  In the East, the little things that in the West are dismissed as "purely platonic" matter to illustrate that a romantic relationship between these two individuals could actually, realistically work out.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts, opinions, observations.  No real scholarly opinions, but just based on my experience being a child of the West and the East.  But even though this isn't specifically about Japanese culture vs Western/US culture, I hope I've given some examples indicating that love can be analyzed/observed/depicted etc differently in different cultures.  Sorry it's so long.

Edited by morgaine4, 28 September 2013 - 04:16 AM.

[Dkey]

 

 

I'm spoiler tagging this because it's long, involves discussions of cultural outlooks on love and might be off topic

When I first explored the Naruto fandom online, I was shocked that there was a debate as to which couple would be the endgame pairing (if there was to be an endgame pairing).  I wasn't a NaruSaku fan at the time, I didn't dislike the pairing (as I did NH and SS), but because of my issues with the way females are presented in the manga --specifically females in relationships-- I didn't want the manga to end with Sakura being in a relationship.  I love her as a kunoichi, I love her as a badass medic, I love the tension my headcanon has created for her (and other combat medics) in terms of the two opposing natures of being a combat medic, and I just didn't want all of that to go to waste, if that makes sense, but I still realized that there was a 99.9% chance that the manga would end with NS.  For one thing, Naruto is going to get the girl.  Most people are sure that Naruto will become Hokage, most people are sure that Naruto will gain Sasuke's acknowledgement and will successfully lead Sasuke to redeem himself, so why is there a debate as to whether or not Naruto will succeed in wooing the girl he's been interested since the beginning?  Additionally, the writing for Naruto and Sakura, it was clear to me that the pair was written in such a way to show their compatibility --the fact that they could work well together in intimate instances.  Why else make it clear in part one that Inner Sakura --the real Sakura-- was so similar to Naruto, that an aspect of her growth would involve her ability to fully embrace her real self?  To me, it was obvious though I wasn't completely happy about it (a small part of me did want NS to be endgame, just because I felt it would be horrible writing for any other Naruto-centric couple to become endgame, but mostly I wanted Sakura to be single/focused on her professional career), but because I wasn't a shipper though I would debate for NS from a logical perspective I didn't take much time to explore the inner workings of shipping in the fandom, and I didn't spend too much time exploring why there was such a cultural divide between the Japanese fandom (and the Greater Asian fandom) vs. the American/Western fandom.

 

After becoming a shipper, however, I have explored what some explanations for this divide could be and I think a lot of it is cultural and not just limited to differing views on romance, but also a few other things.  I am Asian American (East Indian to be specific), and not Japanese American, so some of my examples will relate to Indian culture.  I want to make it clear, I'm not stating or assuming that Indian and Japanese cultures are identical or even similar, I'll just be posting some examples of how romance and love in other cultures are viewed extremely than they are in American culture.

 

• In Indian culture, while it is understood that love is a feeling, for the most part "love" is an action.  In the Indian languages that I know how to say "I love you," the exact translation would be "I am loving you" or "I am liking you" and even when saying "I love you" in English or using the English word "love," even though grammatically it's used properly the love is still thought of as "active," it's something that one is doing rather than something that one is feeling.  Love, in Indian culture, is about the feeling of love but the fact that you trust this person/these people implicitly, that you'll always have each others backs (though you'll reprimand each other in private if it's needed), you can show your worst side to the person you love, you don't have to say thank you, you can be open, honest, just be yourself and if that works with the other person, if you two understand each other then the love is real.
• One major cultural difference with respect to romantic love between the US and India is that in the US we have this idea that if you're head-over-heels in love with someone, you want to show that off.  PDA is considered sweet, if you love someone, you want to express it, you want to touch that person, you want to show that to the world.  In Indian culture, it is the very opposite.  If you are head-over-heels in love with someone, if it's real love, then you don't need to show it.  The people involved know what's going on.  It doesn't mean that the occasional public flirtation, secret/stolen looks, hand holding when crossing a busy street, hug, or placing an arm over one's shoulder is a sign that the love is less real, just that it's not necessary and when public displays of affection occur it should be for practical purposes (so that you don't get separated when in an over-crowded place), or because you're having so much fun interacting with each other than you block out the public/forget that you're in public and have an intimate moment (essentially, a private moment accidentally becomes a public moment).
• I have a feeling that this might be applicable to Japanese culture, but I'm not 100% sure.  In American culture when it comes to fictional romances, I feel that as a community we often prefer impractical, non-compatible love.  We like to watch a pair who would not work out in the real world, interact, come to an understanding while also not compromising their personalities, and ultimately working it out, ending up together, becoming a couple.  While impractical, non-compatible love is popular in fiction in many Asian cultures, as far as I know for the most part accross many Asian cultures these sort of love stories tend to be tragic.  One half of the pairing dies, both individuals die, the couple loves each other but can't be together for whatever reason etc etc.  In Asian cultures, in fiction compatible love, practical love more often than not gets the happy ending.  As a result, little moments that build up the foundation of a relationship is seen as romantic as much as or even more than the larger moments.  Working together, having the ability to work together, getting along, having respect/admiration for one another, understanding one another (learning to understand one another/being able to speak for one another/predicting one another's upcoming actions) that is romantic, but not so in the US.  In the US fiction, hugs, kisses, chemistry, lust, drama, angst, the need to reveal feelings/the need to be together at the wrong time, that's the preferred romantic story and while that's so in the East that's usually tragic.  I guess a simple way to state it is that while in the US fictional romance is often prefered among individuals who make it work despite not having a practical foundation for the relationship to work, while in Asian cultures successful fictional romantic relationships are shown to work because of the foundation built.  In the East, the little things that in the West are dismissed as "purely platonic" matter to illustrate that a romantic relationship between these two individuals could actually, realistically work out.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts, opinions, observations.  No real scholarly opinions, but just based on my experience being a child of the West and the East.  But even though this isn't specifically about Japanese culture vs Western/US culture, I hope I've given some examples indicating that love can be analyzed/observed/depicted etc differently in different cultures.  Sorry it's so long.

 

nice post.

 

But what I get from your post is that either American culture has an almost unrealistic expectation to show love for one. But from what I've seen it's not that much different in America as in other western or eastern countries. Sure customs differ but they more often have similarities than differences.

And as for basic human romances it's pretty constant. It's not like in a part of the world only boys have crushes on girls but in another part it's the other way around.

 

So what it comes to is this clear line between fictional romance and real romance. And as you mentioned at the end of the day the author chooses what romance he wants to pursue in his work of fiction but I don't think that in american romances are realistic but indian or other romances aren't. As I said the author chooses to write one that looks more realistic ( like arguing, drama, comedy) or not so realistic.

 

As for Naruto, I see NS as having more chemistry and it looks like a more realistic romance than other pairings in Naruto, so for me it is the romance that the author chose. If he wanted a more idyllic one he could've done it regardless of japanese standards.

Edited by Dkey, 28 September 2013 - 08:44 AM.

[rocci]

@ns4life
I think it's just an assumption made of because naruto is in the sketch.

[morgaine4]

So what it comes to is this clear line between fictional romance and real romance. And as you mentioned at the end of the day the author chooses what romance he wants to pursue in his work of fiction but I don't think that in american romances are realistic but indian or other romances aren't. As I said the author chooses to write one that looks more realistic ( like arguing, drama, comedy) or not so realistic.

 

As for Naruto, I see NS as having more chemistry and it looks like a more realistic romance than other pairings in Naruto, so for me it is the romance that the author chose. If he wanted a more idyllic one he could've done it regardless of japanese standards.

 

I think in all cultures, the "ideal" way to show love, the idealized love is unrealistic.  The ideal is something we work towards, my point only is that there's a culturally specific difference of what that ideal is.  The reason that it's important to be aware of the cultural differences --especially when examining material from another culture-- is that these culturally ingrained ideals often impact writers in their writing (either to showcase the positives of an ideal, or to show what's wrong with an established ideal).  I just think that as a whole (based on many of my interactions/observations), the Western Naruto fandom tries to dismiss Kishimoto's cultural context (and at times in extremely arrogant, ethnocentric ways), but I think it's important for those of us who aren't intimately familiar with Japanese culture to keep in mind that in reading the manga not only are we losing information because it's impossible to translate words perfectly (because there are words that convey meanings that simply aren't translatable), but also that we're losing information because our cultural context is different.

 

Oh, authors will always choose to write what they want to explore, no doubt but often authors in popular media are somewhat influenced (even if subconsciously) to write styles of romance that might be considered more popular, or better received.  That's all that I mean.  I'm American, I'm not criticizing Americans for enjoying "unrealistic, fictional romances," many of the "romances" I enjoy fall into that category after all, my only intention was to point out that cultural context (cultural ideals, cultural based popularity/preferences, cultural rules) can guide an author's style of writing.  As a whole, different communities prefer different types of things, and those influences will always inform a writer partially because of what is expected (especially given the fact that this manga is geared to children), and partially because the tastes of one's society will influence onself (you might hate it, and try to show why the ideal is idiotic --like I often do about Indian ideals when discussing them with my mom-- but those ideals are still influences).

 

As to whether or not Kishimoto could write whatever he wanted, maybe, maybe not --it would probably depend on his goals.  Keep in mind, he's writing for children, and he's writing for a more mainstream publication and as a result I'd assume that there's a great deal of pressure on him to follow a code of some sort.  I mean, yes I agree that ultimately any author will do as zhe pleases, but we must keep in mind that it's next to impossible to overcome the influences of our own culture; it dictates how close we stand next to each other, the way we make eye contact, how we say thank you, who we say thank you to, how we say "I love you," to whom we say it to etc etc and whenever one writes all those things effect how one writes unless one makes a conscious effort to overcome those influences and even then it's nearly impossible to overcome all cultural influences...and that's not even getting into how societies will read different material differently.  Remember, all the relationships (parent-child, friendship, romantic...all of them) Kishimoto's presented, he's presented mainly with a Japanese audience in mind and non-Japanese readers need to be mindful of that.  That's all I'm saying.

[TouKen4Life3g]

@ns4life
I think it's just an assumption made of because naruto is in the sketch.

But you can't make assumption into fact and they claimed that Kishi has said this. It didn't. It didn't say anything that we hear. In fact, seeing the fact now can't make you assume anything if explained everything. So yeah, this is rather sad. I don't know who or where, but I will make sure I will get my facts right from this point forward.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 28 September 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[Dkey]

 

I think in all cultures, the "ideal" way to show love, the idealized love is unrealistic.  The ideal is something we work towards, my point only is that there's a culturally specific difference of what that ideal is.  The reason that it's important to be aware of the cultural differences --especially when examining material from another culture-- is that these culturally ingrained ideals often impact writers in their writing (either to showcase the positives of an ideal, or to show what's wrong with an established ideal).  I just think that as a whole (based on many of my interactions/observations), the Western Naruto fandom tries to dismiss Kishimoto's cultural context (and at times in extremely arrogant, ethnocentric ways), but I think it's important for those of us who aren't intimately familiar with Japanese culture to keep in mind that in reading the manga not only are we losing information because it's impossible to translate words perfectly (because there are words that convey meanings that simply aren't translatable), but also that we're losing information because our cultural context is different.

 

Oh, authors will always choose to write what they want to explore, no doubt but often authors in popular media are somewhat influenced (even if subconsciously) to write styles of romance that might be considered more popular, or better received.  That's all that I mean.  I'm American, I'm not criticizing Americans for enjoying "unrealistic, fictional romances," many of the "romances" I enjoy fall into that category after all, my only intention was to point out that cultural context (cultural ideals, cultural based popularity/preferences, cultural rules) can guide an author's style of writing.  As a whole, different communities prefer different types of things, and those influences will always inform a writer partially because of what is expected (especially given the fact that this manga is geared to children), and partially because the tastes of one's society will influence onself (you might hate it, and try to show why the ideal is idiotic --like I often do about Indian ideals when discussing them with my mom-- but those ideals are still influences).

 

As to whether or not Kishimoto could write whatever he wanted, maybe, maybe not --it would probably depend on his goals.  Keep in mind, he's writing for children, and he's writing for a more mainstream publication and as a result I'd assume that there's a great deal of pressure on him to follow a code of some sort.  I mean, yes I agree that ultimately any author will do as zhe pleases, but we must keep in mind that it's next to impossible to overcome the influences of our own culture; it dictates how close we stand next to each other, the way we make eye contact, how we say thank you, who we say thank you to, how we say "I love you," to whom we say it to etc etc and whenever one writes all those things effect how one writes unless one makes a conscious effort to overcome those influences and even then it's nearly impossible to overcome all cultural influences...and that's not even getting into how societies will read different material differently.  Remember, all the relationships (parent-child, friendship, romantic...all of them) Kishimoto's presented, he's presented mainly with a Japanese audience in mind and non-Japanese readers need to be mindful of that.  That's all I'm saying.

 

yes the more you enter the Narutoverse you see that it's mainly build on Japanese ideas and what feels either modern or close to western it's possible that it's also Japanese but more contemporary to Japan.

 

Because it's a shounen there are dark themes but not that dark. If it would have been seinen it would show even more brutality and other dark themes.

 

But yes there are some cultural things that western audiences catches on, but the concept of parallels, the moments we use to prove NS aren't that Japanese specific.

Let's take the moment when Sakura decides to feed him. Would in America really be considered platonic?

And that's why it falls to fan preference.

Maybe those things don't appeal to the others ( and honestly most of the fans have an unhealthy way of trying to create more drama and more angst in a series that isn't so dark to begin with) so they deny it.

[TouKen4Life3g]

You know, it's strange. I don't understand about their choice of love as in choosing Hinata over Sakura, along with a strong hate on her. I went over some of details and I still don't get it. Ok, I do but not something I want to believe.

To begin with, I could see the reason being the fact in cartoon, there are times the main character would be in love with a popular girl or really pretty, according to them, girl at first sight, but neglect the girl who is "average" or "different", but then the guy would drop that feeling because of her indifferent, bad or never meant to be. Case in point, people would assume Sakura is that type of girl that Naruto can shift to a different person if he can stop fantasizing her. One major flaw: Sakura is NOT that girl. She wasn't popular, she has a "bad" feature, she was different from others, and most importantly, she actually best friend Naruto. So this theory is dead.

The next one I got is the girl is too scary or too pushy, for the lack of better words. So you're saying we need to make girls into our object, then? That's offensive. Hell, ever heard takes two to tango. Well there you have it. The funny thing is that they say Sakura is scary, mean, or pushy yet going back to animated films, there are tons of them. In fact, women have been portrayed to be the dominant one without being dominant. You got one who is too strong in power, you got one who is dead serious on her hobby, you got one who is a superior on spy, you got one who will hurt you if talks about her history that the protagonist isn't aware, you got one who is a strong warrior that can beat the protagonist in ease, and the list goes on. Hell, not even Disney stoops this low. Well you could argue the old age one but not the 90s and up. So again, why the hate. Kudos to guess where all of them are from.

To close this, I hate to say it but it's really the hate on Sakura for either getting in the way, just not letting it go from the past, for being there, or all of above. I just don't get it. The irony is that Kishi is a fan of animated films yet fans believe Kishi is trying to be the Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, etc. but no, it's a teenager based story that isn't new but told in its own directions. Actually, all the one I listed above for woman character are from among the best. Bottom line, I don't get it.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 28 September 2013 - 12:46 PM.

[sushi.]

I find it ironic how the same people that Naruto gave up on persuading Sakura at the Kage summit, are saying getting her was never his goal and that love is not about that. (as a response to the NS argument "Naruto would never give up on Sakura")

 

I'm not trying to bash anyone, I'm just saying when these arguments crash, they stop working.

Edited by sushi., 28 September 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[milan kyuubi]

For me I am 100% sure NS is going to hapen. It's been over 600+ chapters, and Naruto still loves Sakura. I am sure Kishi isn't going to end his manga with his hero being depresesed and giving up. Espicialy giving up, since Naruto never does that.

 

On another note you should ignore the other fandom/s. Even when NS becomes canon. They are still going to call it bs.

 

I mean read this...

 

I agree kenodman that NS really trolled by mangapanda in 631. Even in Naruto Viz forum, 631 is never considered as serious moment.

 

It's pointless to have any discussion with them. And this is not me bashing the other fandom. It's me stating the simple truth. Even after ns is canon we'll still see a 1000+ theories on why it didn't/couldn't/shouldn't etc etc hapen.

 

I mean they still believe 631 was a joke. I am sure that even if Kishi shoves epilogue with Naruto and Sakura married with children. They still would deny it.

 

For me NS becoming canon would actully be the first time my ship won. :) I used/still ship Dramione (Draco and Hermione (Harry Potter)) and Zuko/Katara (Avatar). Now I can still give reaasons on why this ships should have had hapened. But even if I think the romance in HP was/is bs. I still acepted it and moved on. I have my fanfictions when I get bored from canon

 

This is what will hapen to the 50% of fandom when ns becomes canon. As for the otehr 50%... see the post above, or simple go to MangaFox right now and you'll see

Edited by milan kyuubi, 28 September 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[Hanabi]

^ I actually thought mf was fine. there were several rational shippers. all of a sudden this bunch of incredibly bias people came running in and.. well.... I once argued with a nh fan over there that said nh handhold is romantic, but ns hug is not..smh..

Edited by Hanabi, 28 September 2013 - 02:31 PM.

[milan kyuubi]

^ I actually thought mf was fine. there were several rational shippers. all of a sudden this bunch of incredibly bias people came running in and.. well.... I once argued with a nh fan over there that said nh handhold is romantic, but ns hug is not..smh..

 

I know!

 

I mean look at this...

SasuSaku Rant

SasuSaku rant!

 

Part 1

 

http://forums.mangaf...63#post12472863

http://forums.mangaf...80#post12473180

http://forums.mangaf...80#post12473280

http://forums.mangaf...68#post12473368

http://forums.mangaf...25#post12473725

 

Part 2

 

http://forums.mangaf...99#post12473999

http://forums.mangaf...07#post12476107

http://forums.mangaf...81#post12476481

http://forums.mangaf...54#post12476554

 

 

 

Masashi wanted us readers get attention of that moment too, of course. Sakura feelings for Naruto has totally changed since the beginning of the manga, it showns how their characters changed and grown up. I'm not gonna lie, at that moment, most of us thought Sakura was starting developing romantic feelings for Naruto. But then Sakura's fake confession happen and it shown that Sakura doesn't love Naruto but Sasuke and later (chap. 540) once again Kishi's affirm that Sakura loves Sasuke.

 

Tell him/her AGAIN! lol

I've been trying to get that across to him/her for awhile now but all I get back is I'm being bias lol.

 

Try again? No. I came to conclusion is hopeless talking to some of them, they still deny. My rants of anti-NS and pro-NH and SS aren't mean to discuss with them, it's just to shown my opinion and point of view, I wasn't expecting to them agree with me, after all they ship another pairings and I understand that.

Doesn't change the fact that some of them are too hopeless and in denial.

 

To the mods, this is not me bashing, or trying to lead other members into bashing other fandom/s. I just linked this here so people can see the reasons why they ship opposites ships. And that's all, nothing more. My apology in advance.

Edited by milan kyuubi, 28 September 2013 - 02:49 PM.

[BlueStarSaber]

Usually when I see what NH fans say what will they do if NaruSaku becomes canon they usually say they will get mad and few days later calm down and move on or Threaten Mr Kishi, the latter I have no Idea if they are joking or not.

[Fairy Tail Fantard]

You know, it's strange. I don't understand about their choice of love as in choosing Hinata over Sakura, along with a strong hate on her. I went over some of details and I still don't get it. Ok, I do but not something I want to believe.

To begin with, I could see the reason being the fact in cartoon, there are times the main character would be in love with a popular girl or really pretty, according to them, girl at first sight, but neglect the girl who is "average" or "different", but then the guy would drop that feeling because of her indifferent, bad or never meant to be. Case in point, people would assume Sakura is that type of girl that Naruto can shift to a different person if he can stop fantasizing her. One major flaw: Sakura is NOT that girl. She wasn't popular, she has a "bad" feature, she was different from others, and most importantly, she actually best friend Naruto. So this theory is dead.

The next one I got is the girl is too scary or too pushy, for the lack of better words. So you're saying we need to make girls into our object, then? That's offensive. Hell, ever heard takes two to tango. Well there you have it. The funny thing is that they say Sakura is scary, mean, or pushy yet going back to animated films, there are tons of them. In fact, women have been portrayed to be the dominant one without being dominant. You got one who is too strong in power, you got one who is dead serious on her hobby, you got one who is a superior on spy, you got one who will hurt you if talks about her history that the protagonist isn't aware, you got one who is a strong warrior that can beat the protagonist in ease, and the list goes on. Hell, not even Disney stoops this low. Well you could argue the old age one but not the 90s and up. So again, why the hate. Kudos to guess where all of them are from.

To close this, I hate to say it but it's really the hate on Sakura for either getting in the way, just not letting it go from the past, for being there, or all of above. I just don't get it. The irony is that Kishi is a fan of animated films yet fans believe Kishi is trying to be the Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, etc. but no, it's a teenager based story that isn't new but told in its own directions. Actually, all the one I listed above for woman character are from among the best. Bottom line, I don't get it.

You forgot she's 'flat chested' even though it's been stated she has double B's. 

 

Not trying to be a pervert or anything, but the 'flat chested' argument is one of the dumbest things I've come a cross. I wasn't aware it mattered with fictional characters. 

[Fairy Tail Fantard]

Usually when I see what NH fans say what will they do if NaruSaku becomes canon they usually say they will get mad and few days later calm down and move on or Threaten Mr Kishi, the latter I have no Idea if they are joking or not.

Threaten Kishimoto? Just over a fictional pairing? Wow...I...can't even say what I'm thinking right now. That is so...I can;t even say it without bashing, so I'm not going to.

 

NH/SS fans who say that seriously need to find another series or something to watch. Because that's just stupid.