1649 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

For once I actually agree with you Dark.
Thing is, to me, this whole scene is anti-SS and expresses that Sakura's feelings have change because no other reasoning makes sense. Whether words wise or context wise, there is no way for it to be pro-SS and still make sense.

This feels like we facing against the Juubi because I just witnessed an enemy of my enemy is my friend. Lol.

[James S Cassidy]

This feels like we facing against the Juubi because I just witnessed an enemy of my enemy is my friend. Lol.

 

[MangaReader]

 

I didn't know it was still 2012 (lol)

[FireFox]

I think many are forgetting that Kakashi was also a witness of 450 the NS hug and the confession and that he had that awe expression on his face in 450 and his line that he didn't finished in the confession "Sakura you" plus the fact that he saw how the three of them interacted(SS & NS) just before his flashback , this is why i think that he based his opinion on how they interacted with each other . 

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 10 May 2014 - 04:08 PM.

[Nostradamus]

Man, the hypocrisy has become thick in entire Naruto fandom.

Okay, for a long time people have been trying to cram down my throat that Sakura has always genuinely loved Sasuke since the beginning. "She has always loved Sasuke romantically and she she wants him back." The NS fans believed her love was only a shallow crush at best and there was no basis for it. She had feelings for him, but it wasn't that strong because she didn't know him. For a long time, as long as I can remember reading this manga, people keep telling me that since part 1 Sakura's love for Sasuke was genuine and pure and strong.

 

Now when this chapter comes out and Kakashi questions Sakura's love for Sasuke and comment how it changed, all of a sudden everyone is saying "Well, in Part 1 it was only a crush and it wasn't that strong, but now Kakashi says it is "genuine and she now truly in love with him." Am I the only one that sees a problem with this logic? Right when they are proven wrong about Sakura's feelings, they flip their whole story and say that they are just stronger now because they never were that strong to begin with?

I am just...flabbergasted. People want to argue ambiguity saying that well "If Kakashi meant she was not in love with Sasuke, he could have just said that straight forward." I'd argue he could have said it the other way too. Why not just have Kakashi say "Well, you were only a kid having a crush back then, but now you are a woman with true love in your heart for him."

What kind of love did Sakura have for Sasuke in the beginning because now all of a sudden everyone is changing their minds about it. Even the NS here are saying now that it was only a child crush that got stronger.

As for the "kind girl" comment, I do not read it as "Oh you are still in love with him after all the stuff he had done....that's a kind girl." I read it instead as: "You are still willing to forgive and try and save him despite what he tried to do to you. You are kind that way." This going off the basis that even Kakashi tried to kill Sasuke and Obito for all they have done, but everyone else was forgiving.

Well James what about 540? Hmm?

Sakura is thinking about Sasuke, not Naruto. If Sakura was love with Naruto as she said and her fake confession might I add, she would be thinking about Naruto. But she doesn't, does she? No of course she doesn't, she thinks of Sasuke. Therefore Sakura loves Sasuke, therefore what this chapter proves is that Sakura's love for Sasuke is so powerful that it grew from a fangirl love to a mature love. Because even if Sasuke tried to kill her, that didn't change Sakura's feelings it actually made them stronger.

And don't try to give me that "You have to look what's underneath the underneath" because that means one must think, that one must use their brain and that's way to much effort. One must always take things at face value and never think at all. Remember thinking is really bad.

[TouKen4Life3g]

This is fun. Lol

[MangaReader]

Are we really going to such lengths to convince ourselves when reality is we already know we're 95% correct?

...

Of coarse we are :)

[Gojira]

Is VIZ translation the official translation translated by professional and sent in book shop in America? Why would it be more reliable? I also heard it was not that accurate.

Yes and that's what I just said.

Even if it is increased love, despite how crazy that would be,

I'd say the whole aspect of change is the eventual answer to events not to mention, theres still plenty of more reason and merit for NS to come. I mean again, this doesn't solve SS lack of development.Thats the main advantage NS will otherwise always have at this point and as said before, she continues to change in regards to both of them, otherwise if it wasn't to be hinted, there wouldn't have been elements like kushinas foreshadow, 631 building this, and 663 where we know who sakura is going to support if the conflict really is over hokage. Even if its increased, there still plenty saying NS has more potential to come. Its almost insane to think kishi would otherwise just place stuff there to not use it and just keep a static element from the start as the long term result that never had any merit in the regards to the rest of sakura's development like as if nothing changed. But as I said, theres still plenty on the NS side to suggest otherwise that things can change even if the increased crazy answer somehow is real. Otherwise if its decreased, well case closed.

I only say the if answers because well, fans being fans us included made an issue out of it and are waiting on the raw, but I'm still on the side of it decreased because, theres just a lot of fallacies with the increased side as said before and as many of us agree with, it just doesnt make sense how it could have become something more after all the events in the story and other junk thats happened.

I don't think its so much increased love so much as it is, going from a fangirl crush to falling love atleast I think that's what they're getting at.

Edited by Pepsi, 10 May 2014 - 04:51 PM.

[Nate River]

That's why i disregard this theory when they bought up.
 
My only concern with Kakashi's quote, is how he based off his opinion, if he saw SS interaction and says that her feelings diminished because of the killing attempts, for me it has the same validity as Sai explaining Sakura's actions to Naruto, because that would tell me that Kakashi was expecting Sakura to fangirl over Sasuke and just cuz she didnt fangirled he made a statement that her feelings are changed.

It is his opinion, but I wouldn't worry about it. I think the purpose of the scene was essentially to state the lay of the land. We never get to see Sakura's internal thoughts. This is a backdoor way of tell the reader where she stands (as its always been a bit murky). The literal words are open to interpretation, but the context of the scene and pretty much all of part 2 do away with that. I don't see how it can be read any other way.

When look at the interactions between SS since Part 2 began it's really hard to peg what would have allowed it to change in a direction that is better thanbefore. There interactions have been limited and almost always negative (neutral at best). What has she learned, discovered, seen that would allow her character to make that jump. I realize love doesn't always work like that, but Kishimoto is not an author who has used time alone to develop feelings. When they change there is usually a basis for that change.
 

You'd be surprised.

I'd agree. Criminal law has no shortage of murder cases that involve family members offing each other. For a rather notorious example, see John List and why he murdered his whole family.

[James S Cassidy]

Well James what about 540? Hmm?

I have given my entire view of this damn chapter on 5 different occasions in the past 2 weeks alone in the debate thread alone. I am not giving it again and I am tired of people not listening to me when I do give my opinion because they want to be stubborn. Because they believe that Sakura merely just having a thought about Sasuke means "tur lurve." (True Love.) Yeup. Logic detects to ignore the fact that the thought was negative or she has this feeling of regret on her face. Yes, let's just ignore that in favor of "She thought of Sasuke, so it must be canon."

Once again, we continue to prove that to fans when it comes to Pro-NS, or Anti-SS or Anti-NH, it is all a matter of "interpretation" and is "too ambiguous to figure out," but when it comes to anti-NS scenes or Pro-SS/Pro-NH scenes....they are apparently straight up and are not ambiguous in any way. Are we sure this is a NS fan club? Because about half the fandom seems almost anti-NS with the way people talk.

Context context context context context.

The logic of this forum is all NS scenes are ambiguous and pure interpretation, but all SS and NH scenes are straight and absolutely mean canon.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 10 May 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I do believe he was joking, James. But at least you give more insight.

[Nostradamus]

@James NH is canon, canon I say.   My comment was a troll move 'cause I knew you would instantly lose it.   Also read my entire comment. Especially the last part with "underneath the underneath".

Truth is you and I have similar thoughts when it comes to 540, of course they're not exactly the same. But I'm done talking about that chapter and I suggest you do the same. It's pretty pointless debating that chapter. The ones that are capable of seeing that moment for what it actually is, don't really talk about it. And the ones that don't understand it keep mentioning it over and over and over and they'll continue to talk about it even after the story ends.

Edited by Nostradamus, 10 May 2014 - 05:48 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

It is his opinion, but I wouldn't worry about it. I think the purpose of the scene was essentially to state the lay of the land. We never get to see Sakura's internal thoughts. This is a backdoor way of tell the reader where she stands (as its always been a bit murky). The literal words are open to interpretation, but the context of the scene and pretty much all of part 2 do away with that. I don't see how it can be read any other way.

Yep, as for me the context is clear on telling that her feelings changed but what lead to Kakashi come to that conclusion is the reason that confuses me, if he's basing off the fact she didnt fangirled over Sasuke because the killing attempts, it's the same as nothing because Kishimoto would never kill Sakura's character like he did with Karin, and if Kakashi comes to that conclusion based with that notion, it wont be a hint but rather speculation from Kakashi and it's another lolipop for the NS/SS to suck.
(I think she doesnt love Sasuke anymore because she's not fangirling like she used to when we were team 7).

If Kakashi's interpetation is based on Naruto/Sakura's relationship development then it's a hint given by Kishimoto.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 10 May 2014 - 06:00 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

@James NH is canon, canon I say.   My comment was a troll move 'cause I knew you would instantly lose it.   Also read my entire comment. Especially the last part with "underneath the underneath".

Truth is you and I have similar thoughts when it comes to 540, of course they're not exactly the same. But I'm done talking about that chapter and I suggest you do the same. It's pretty pointless debating that chapter. The ones that are capable of seeing that moment for what it actually is, don't really talk about it. And the ones that don't understand it keep mentioning it over and over and over and they'll continue to talk about it even after the story ends.

 

You're an ass. XD

Still my point stands. Really, why is it are we supposed to take all NS scenes with a grain of salt and say "it is ambiguous," but SS and NH scenes are always supposed to be seen as straight forward? Up until the point of the war, I'd say all scenes were ambiguous, but we are on the home stretch of the manga. If SS and NH have no made some headway by now, then they never will.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 10 May 2014 - 06:04 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

@James: I told you he was joking. XD

[James S Cassidy]

@James: I told you he was joking. XD

 

I know he was joking, but some others are not.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Is the Raw out?

[Nostradamus]

 

You're an ass. XD

Always.

 

Still my point stands. Really, why is it are we supposed to take all NS scenes with a grain of salt and say "it is ambiguous," but SS and NH scenes are always supposed to be seen as straight forward? Up until the point of the war, I'd say all scenes were ambiguous, but we are on the home stretch of the manga. If SS and NH have no made some headway by now, then they never will.

This actually has to do with each individual. I don't look at NS moments with skepticism at all, I see then for what they are. And the same thing can be said about NH/SS moments, I see them for what they are.

People see whatever they want to see. The annoying factor is that they'll argue against anyone who sees differently than they do.

Edited by Nostradamus, 10 May 2014 - 06:40 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Is the Raw out?

Not yet.

This is really the most anticipated raw yet, is it?

[CloudMountainJuror]

This is the most fun I've had watching a thread in a while.