12649 replies to this topic

[Gaara's hair]

We've been smeckledorfed.

I knew I was missing something.

 

8D

[TouKen4Life3g]

Posting this kitten forever  bc its 100 % true  and people need to realize the problem with this piece of kitten of an ending .
 
http://shinosays.tum...ough-ive-gotten
 
Alright, Ive waited long enough. Ive gotten enough asks asking me about what I think about things, so lets get this started. Itll be under a read more, because this is going to get long. 
 
Let me preface this by saying that I am not saying all of Naruto is bad, or that all of it has been invalidated, or that things that were good are no longer good. Nor am I saying that Kishimoto cannot write, that he should not have written the series, or anything of the sort. I have no personal hatred against him as a person, and such feelings are irrelevant in this discussion. 
 
I personally feel, that when you produce something and ask money for it, that you are open to criticism. This is not a critique of him as a person; thats irrelevant. I will focus only on the work that has been produced, and I will explain exactly why I do not like it, and what parts I do like. 
 
Also, I will not go into ships, because they dont mean anything to me personally, except when I talk about a specific topic, and that wont be a bash or endorsement of any one ship. 
Now, lets get into this. 
 
Ill start with 699, because there is a lot to praise in this. Had this been it, I probably would have been happy. I think there are issues with it, but I will give credit where credit is due, and I want to start on a positive note. 
 
The biggest success with 699 is the question of Sasuke; hes been a major problem writing wise, because it often seemed like the writer had no idea what he was or what to do with him. Was he a hero? A villain? An antagonist? A protagonist? What was Sasuke? 
 
Then the question of what to do with him after the war came up. It seemed really hard to try and find a way to do anything with him besides kill him or throw him in jail. 
 
And in this, I am willing to praise Kishimoto for taking the third door; having Sasuke basically be exiled and told that if he does anything wrong that its back to being a villain is a good move. It basically puts him in the role of Batman at the end of the Dark Knight; hes basically disappearing from view, while still remaining an enemy and he isnt being given safe haven from those who still want him dead. And that is a good way to handle it. It neither redeems him nor damns him. It keeps him in limbo, ensuring he can keep being used later on for more sequels. 
 
A lot of things were shown, such as Atsui and Samui being removed from the jar, showing Tentens prowess with weaponry, and keeping Daruis promise. The little things liek that, made the chapter feel like everything was working out. This was the moment of triumph; and I felt satisfied with it. 
 
But we have to get into the negative, and there was a bit. First, Sakura. Now, as I said I dont care about who shes shipped with. I dont. Who bangs who is not something Ive ever cared about. Its more troubling to see that she is reduced to a crying, demure girl in front of Sasuke, when shes a warrior and arguably the strongest kunoichi in existence. For all the work put into Sakura over the course of Shippuden to make her not seem like she was at the end of the original series, this seems to be a major backpedaling. Why portray the woman who has no qualms about being a tough warrior as suddenly being unable to be anything but the child she was when she was first introduced? This has nothing to do with whether or not you like or hate her; from a writing perspective its inconsistent with what she was written to be. 
 
And really, that was perhaps the largest gripe with 699. There were other small things, like Yamato and Sai not being considered part of team 7, but I can understand the moment of the original three being back together again. 
 
Now, lets get on to 700, which may as well be the elephant in the room. 
But lets start with the positives, which are few and far between. First, I like the tribute between the first and last pages. Thats a nice touch. I like that Gai and Kakashi had a moment. I liked seeing Lee being Lee, and that he hasnt given up on his beliefs. 
Now lets get onto the bad stuff. 
 
First, many people are upset with the fact that everything was neatly wrapped up, with little to no consideration to the fact that they just went through war and had a great deal of emotional trauma to deal with. 
 
Second, they skipped twenty years ahead it seems, and paired everyone off, seemingly at random. 
 
Third, all of the character development towards the pairings, approving of them or not, seems to have been thrown out the window entirely. consider for a moment that Hinata, whose entire arc throughout the series was to become more confident and sure of herself, is now put into the role of being a housewife. I will not comment on what kind of one shed be, only that it seems odd that her arc was to be brave, only to then put her into a position of her not having to be. 
 
The problem with the pairings is that it seems like we missed something. Which we did. Granted, I believe that any pairing can work out given the correct development. I believe that all ships are equally valid. But what has happened is that we went from before any of them were even considering dating because they were in a war to twenty years later when theyre suddenly paired off and had kids. 
 
Consider that Inos development, being that her father just died and her also working in Torture and Interrogation, has completely been scrapped. Sakuras training as the greatest medical shinobi to succeed Tsunade is entirely disregarded in order to make her a housewife. Tenten has given up her dream to be a legendary kunoichi to open a shop and do nothing. Temari has seemingly become bitter and emotionally cold, probably because shes now also a housewife. Anko is now obese and jovial, despite the whole traumatic life that shes lived as a science experiment, because fat people are funny right? 
 
And its not just the women who have lost any and all character development. Choji has, from his appearance, given up being a shinobi, totally undoing all the lessons he learned from his father about what it means to be the head of his clan. Shino has, for some reason, taken over Irukas job despite the fact that everything weve seen of him would indicate he was poised to take up the mantle of his own father. Kakashi apparently just sort of did nothing and then retired. The former Kage have done nothing it seems, and the current Kage dont have a point for meeting. 
 
Ill cover Naruto and Sasuke on their own in a moment, because right now I want to get into the idea of shinobi. At the beginning of the series, shinobi were portrayed as being those who did jobs for hire. Essentially, they were mercenaries. Every major country had a village that acted a the place to hire them, and these villages were also hubs of commerce and culture. Later, we found out that villages were founded when clans came together after the warring states period. This in turn turned shinobi from mercenary families to political entities. 
 
However, at the end of the war, no one is doing anything remotely shinobi-like. Which seems to indicate that after the war, shinobi no longer kill people or take jobs. Which raises the question of why you need a Kage, why you need shinobi, why you have an academy, and why any of this matters at all. 
If we consider that the goal of our protagonist, Naruto, was to become Hokage, then we must ask what it means to be Hokage. We must ask what that means to him. In the beginning, it was to be recognized by the people who hated and shunned him. This changed later to be him wanting to protect his village. 
 
But if there are no threats, if there is no need for any kage or shinobi, then becoming Hokage is pointless. It becomes an empty office devoid of meaning or payoff. Even if you wanted him to become Hokage, the entire thing feels empty. If we all agree that at the end of the war Naruto was not ready to become Kage, and he wasnt in terms of emotional maturity or age, then him basically having the seat waiting for him reduces Kakashi to that of a placeholder; a lame duck kage for a now pointless position. 
 
But lets get into the two big issues, which are Naruto and Sasuke. Consider that, the entire series continually pointed out how they both suffered and we alone, and came to two different conclusions. Naruto became the extrovert, causing problems to be acknowledged by people who ignored him. Sasuke became the introvert, taking that loneliness and turning it into hatred. 
 
So we have two people, both who suffered from lack of parents, both who suffered from lack of affection and care, now both being neglectful parents themselves. Yes, there is the statistic that children who are abused by their parents are then more likely to do that to their own children, but this isnt the case here. This is a situation where Sasuke is more focused on wandering around aimlessly, and Naruto is more interested in his job than to pay attention to his own child. 
 
And really, the questions and issues are different for both of them. Most people, even if you like Sasuke, could see him being a bad father. He wasnt a great person, so being a bad father is not exactly out of the question given that he has always been self interested as a character. The question for him is when did he have the time to have a child with Sakura as an outcast and wanderer? 
 
Naruto is a bigger issue. He has essentially abandoned his childs needs in favor of his own job and happiness; he tells his child not to do things because theyll make him look bad. One would ask why his child is acting out, and this may be a case where the writer is attempting to say that the kid is like the father, but that would be forgetting that the kid was the way he was because he was abandoned and ostracized. Which means that if the kid is acting that way, then Naruto is seriously neglecting his parenting duties, and it also means that he essentially dumped the children on Hinata the way Sasuke dumped his spawn onto Sakura, because clearly all women are good for is raising kids in this world where women are known for being killer shinobi and all around badasses. 
 
And that makes me question the point of the series. What is its message?
It seemed to be that Naruto, as a character, was the force of change. He was a break with the past. He was going to mark the end of the old era of past grievances and found a new era. 
 
But it seems like the new era hes a part of is one where children are dumped onto their mothers, where shinobi cease to mean anything, where Naruto is no better to his son than the village was to him, where Sasuke has not learned anything, where the new era feels worse than the old one. 
 
And I think thats really the problem here. This feels empty. It feels unsatisfactory. It feels like it was a cheap way out. 
 
And the reason it feels this way, the reason it feels empty, is because this happily ever after ending feels like a dystopian nightmare rather than a fairy tale. This isnt a happy ending. This is an ending where, even if your ships became canon, it feels wrong. All the reasons you might have shipped NaruHina or SasuSaku were tossed out, and what you were given was a universe where the reasons you were told it shouldnt happen occurred. And if you dont ship these things, it feels worse, because there is no joy in saying that you knew this was a bad idea. 
 
There is no joy in this ending. There is no triumph. There are no good feelings. This entire ending is like meeting someone as an adult that you saw when they were in elementary school. They were a cute kid then, but now theyre a burnt out meth-head and all you can say is what happened to you? 
 
And thats this ending in a nutshell. It feels bereft of any enjoyment because it essentially shows that not a single character ended up happy. Not a single one of them ever managed to do anything that they wanted to as a kid. Not a single one of them grew up and achieved their dreams. 
 
They all basically grew up, abandoned their dreams, moved to the suburbs, had kids, and were miserable for the rest of their lives. 
 
Thats how Naruto ends. And thats why its awful. 

James S Cassidy made a audio reading of that and gave his own two cents. That post got so many notes that seriously, it's not only pairing that's wrong. Arguably, it's the least of our problems.

[Lady Lys]

Oh my!

 

\(O_O)/

 

I knew I was missing something.

 

8D

OK. OK. You WIIIN, I admit defeaat!!!!

\(°-°)/

[Gaara's hair]

 

OK. OK. You WIIIN, I admit defeaat!!!!

\(°-°)/

Yay!

 

X)

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Oh my!

 

\(O_O)/

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━ I demand an end to these shenanigans! 

[Luna m.]

He feel embarrassed when he try to write romance?
Does he feel embarrassed when he wrote CPR?
BS, pure BS

[MangaReader]

The parallel with Kushina was so strong. I don't understand what was the purpose of that?

It meant getting our hopes up

[Gaara's hair]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━ I demand an end to these shenanigans! 

T-T

[Lady Lys]

Yay!

 

X)

I'll have my reveengeeee

è___é

XDD

[Tsuki Hoshino]

T-T

┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ) okay perhaps table flipping was a bit excessive....I apologize for my conduct.

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 10 November 2014 - 08:04 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

The parallel with Kushina was so strong. I don't understand what was the purpose of that?

"The bridge got destroyed by drones."

-paraphrased by 4Life

[Tsuki Hoshino]

"The bridge got destroyed by drones."

-paraphrased by 4Life

Thats probably the best way to put it too   


Literally, It doesn't matter about this parallel or that parallel, or this development or that statement, they were all ruined in regards to canon. 

[Lady Lys]

┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ) okay perhaps table flipping was a bit excessive....I apologize for my conduct.

You've made him cry!!!! Bad Tsuki! Bad! And now clean the mess you've made!!!

[MangaReader]

Well if anything, don't support too hard because you'll be friendzoned. Jesus Christ. It's not rocket science. Fairy Tail is doing the basic without being romantic yet you know who he's targetting at. Another point is you just did all the basic on NS and you still kitten it up? That's why I want to mercy his writing by saying something has happened in the last minute.

And for the record, just because I'm only talking about pairing here doesn't mean that's why the ending was ruined. You can say this problem 1 out of 25.

No list in the universe could make up for all the questions that need to be answered but never will

 

Of course. He managed to tame it down tenfold by the end because well, he got to make sure the other characters were getting the real treatment. Which begs the question why I should have support Naruto if Sasuke was the protagonist and arguably a better ending of them all.

I guess we were suppose to support Sasuke and Hinata this entire time. Sasuke wasn't happy in that ending though

 

Nah, that would never work. For me at least, it's easy to tell the difference between her and Kishi's work, even if it's very close to it.

Many NaruHina fans have been worried about her art over the years,,, Don't ask me how I know that.

[Catwho]

Fairy Tail's pairings actually do have some ambiguity.  Erza/Jellal is a lock, Gajeel/Levy is pretty much confirmed, Cana/Bacchus is minor but definitely there (they are "drinking buddies" in canon), Bisca/Alzec = married with a kid already, and Elfman and Evergreen are dating in secret but afraid to let anyone else in the guild find out because they WILL get teased mercilessly.

 

Then in ascending order of ambiguity, we have:

 

Lucy/Natsu:  The Gray/Natsu/Loki rivalry is still a factor, as is the Natsu/Lisanna promise to grow up and get married, but Lisanna has given up, Loki isn't even human, and Gray has the Juvia love triangle overlapping.

 

Gray/Juvia/Lyon: Massive one sided love.  Juvia is clingy, Gray hates it.  He's shot her down many times.  But she is undeterred. One of these days he may very well cave in.  Lyon is also madly in love with Juvia, but if anything this prompts Gray to get defensive about his semi-non-relationship.  Ultear was potentially a factor in this, but she had a "big sister" relationship to Gray at the best of times, and any kind of pairing is no longer an option in her current state.

 

Everyone else:

- Mirajane: Shipped with lots of people, nothing official 

- Laxus: Frequently shipped with Mirajane, nothing official

- Bixlow: Frequently shipped with Lisanna for no reason (such a fun crack ship, too)

- Fried: Officially gay, in love with Laxus, unrequited
- Meldy: No romantic inclinations ever given

- Doronbolt and Lahar:  Middle aged men

- Macao: Widowed, used to be shipped with Cana, but he aged 7 years on her over the time skip

- Gildarts: Traveling womanizer, once married

 

If you want a nice safe ship that feels like NaruSaku in execution, Lucy/Natsu is the closest you get.  Erza/Jellal is the angsty pair.  Gajeel/Levy is closer to SasuSaku (with the huge difference being that he feels like a total dirtbag for what he did to her and regrets it wholly.)  Gray/Juvia is all played for comedy. 

Edited by Catwho, 10 November 2014 - 08:14 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

You've made him cry!!!! Bad Tsuki! Bad! And now clean the mess you've made!!!

- SOBS-
(ﾉಥДಥ)ﾉ︵┻━┻ 

I'M SO SORRRY UWAAAAH....

[Lady Lys]

- SOBS-
(ﾉಥДಥ)ﾉ︵┻━┻ 

I'M SO SORRRY UWAAAAH....

*pats* Now there there. Dry your eyes dear, and go make up.

[MangaReader]

I said it once before guys... Sasuke was just one giant @sspull. He was an @sspull when Kishi's editor said Naruto needed a rival, he was an @sspull with his power ups and development, and he was an @sspull in the final 2 chapters

[FireFox]

James S Cassidy made a audio reading of that and gave his own two cents. That post got so many notes that seriously, it's not only pairing that's wrong. Arguably, it's the least of our problems.

It explains this ending perfectly and that's without involving parings in it   he definitely gets the award for the best post EVER!!!  and people who say that we are pissed only about NS are dead wrong bc first I'm a Naruto fan the story before any parring .  And really James did that  can I have a link  please XD . 

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 10 November 2014 - 08:13 PM.

[Gaara's hair]

You better

8p

Edited by sakurx, 10 November 2014 - 08:11 PM.