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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread!


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#8641 tricksie

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:38 PM

QUOTE (zacrathedemon5 @ Feb 27 2012, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...I'm sorry to break it to you, but I see absolutely no sign whatsoever of anything resembling a blush on Sakura's face in that panel. Seriously. Her cheeks are completely blank.


Yeah, Sakura's not really blushing here, although her expression is open and loving. But Hinata's expression in the anime is definitely blushing/hopeful, from what I remember. It had a very different feel from the manga pic.

edit: Is there a comparison pic floating around out there somewhere? From the anime to the manga? It'd would be interesting to see....

Edited by tricksie, 27 February 2012 - 02:39 PM.


#8642 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:17 PM

I've noticed too at times how biased the anime crew can be with mostly keeping Sakura as she was with favoring Sasuke in the early filler stuff before Shippuden. Though they've also given Sakura some great moments in the anime, like in Shippuden when the Leaf villagers are glaring at Naruto, and Sakura's there with her mom or dad and looks back at Naruto while they take off.

#8643 Namaenash

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:59 PM

QUOTE (narunarunaru @ Feb 27 2012, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually that argument could be used the other way around. What was the point of Hinata's character if Naruto doesn't return her feelings? Her character revolves solely around Naruto, and him only. Naruto is her everything. You cannot even describe her character without mentioning Naruto.

On the other hand, Sakura's character can exist without Naruto. Sakura has been one of the biggest support for Naruto, fought against Akatsuki, the new Sannin, and is currently solving the clue to uncover the mystery of Zetsu and his plant clones. Even without the romance, she has a significant role, bigger than that of Shikamaru.

That is why it's really a pity if Naruhina doesn't happen. Because a character who exists solely for love, will be rejected of that purpose.
And this statement of mine isn't even a least bit of proof for NaruHina. If any, it only proves how Kishi made Hinata a lame character.


Hm, if that's the case, such argument can also be used for Lee against Sakura, for Ino against Sasuke or any [supporting character] against [main lead]. What was the point of [supporting character]'s role if [the main lead] doesn't return his/her feelings?

Naruto and Sakura, although can be independently defined, they compliment each other (foreshadowed by iruka's comment on Heaven and Earth). The message is quite clear in that chapter.

Some of examples are:
- Naruto is weak with genjutsu, while Sakura is very good at it (refer to the arc with chiyoo-baasan)
- Heaven and earth comment by Iruka
- Naruto has a massive amount of chakra, while Sakura is very good at chakra control.
- Naruto gets hurt a lot, Sakura is a medic which can easily patch him up tongue.gif
... And many more.

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#8644 Nostradamus

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:26 PM

QUOTE (God of All Shinobi @ Feb 27 2012, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
OMFG I just realized how biased the anime people are, LOOk

http://manga.animea....505-page-2.html

Look here Sakura has blushes and Hinata does not, and in the episode of this chapter in the manga guess which girl has blushes. I will give you a hint HINATA kittening HYUGA. I am so sick and tired of their treatment towards Sakura and Hinata, they make Sakura look really bad and HInata look rally good. I wish Kishimoto would kill HInata, by having Sasuke stab her with a sword, or even better. Naruto should kill her ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Why are the anime so biased.



“Sakura: - Hinata!
Hinata: - Sakura-san.
Sakura: - What’s up with the new ending?!
Hinata: - What do you mean?
Sakura: - Why am I, the heroine, disregarded, and you the only one in the ending?
Hinata: - I have no idea.
Sakura: - Look at this! I don’t suppose you’ve bribed the staff or anything?
Hinata: - No, not at all.
Sakura: - And a bicycle? If you’re a ninja, run.
Naruto: - Sakura-chan, just give it up.
Sakura: - Naruto.
Naruto: - The staff of “Naruto” are Hinata fans, and they went out of control when they made it.
Sakura: - What’s up with that?!
Naruto: - Besides, I’d like you to actually listen to the music. With “bicycle” being repeated like that, there’s no way even the best staff wouldn’t put her on a bike.
Sakura: - Oh, makes sense. That’s not it, though! Hey, staff! Make an ending of me! An ending of me! God damn it!”
It’s from episode 165. After the ending.

                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#8645 CloudMountainJuror

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:29 PM

QUOTE (tricksie @ Feb 27 2012, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, Sakura's not really blushing here, although her expression is open and loving. But Hinata's expression in the anime is definitely blushing/hopeful, from what I remember. It had a very different feel from the manga pic.

edit: Is there a comparison pic floating around out there somewhere? From the anime to the manga? It'd would be interesting to see....

Which is why I avoid the anime completely. laugh.gif

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#8646 Fenris

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:32 PM

QUOTE (zacrathedemon5 @ Feb 27 2012, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Which is why I avoid the anime completely. laugh.gif

Yeah. It's kinda ridiculous. rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
“Sakura: - Hinata!
Hinata: - Sakura-san.
Sakura: - What’s up with the new ending?!
Hinata: - What do you mean?
Sakura: - Why am I, the heroine, disregarded, and you the only one in the ending?
Hinata: - I have no idea.
Sakura: - Look at this! I don’t suppose you’ve bribed the staff or anything?
Hinata: - No, not at all.
Sakura: - And a bicycle? If you’re a ninja, run.
Naruto: - Sakura-chan, just give it up.
Sakura: - Naruto.
Naruto: - The staff of “Naruto” are Hinata fans, and they went out of control when they made it.
Sakura: - What’s up with that?!
Naruto: - Besides, I’d like you to actually listen to the music. With “bicycle” being repeated like that, there’s no way even the best staff wouldn’t put her on a bike.
Sakura: - Oh, makes sense. That’s not it, though! Hey, staff! Make an ending of me! An ending of me! God damn it!”
It’s from episode 165. After the ending.


I can't tell if it's PRO NS or Anti but when I watched it Hinata looked appauled at Naruto for not sticking up for her or something. So..
 
 
tumblr_nn5rgcX8lv1rq9ihbo4_500.gif
 
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#8647 Fyuria'sLeo

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:46 PM

I want Hinata to confront Sakura and ask her what she feels towards Naruto. Reminds me of an anime I watched.

8c5a9c63d23baf4e9d077bf65597592bb55115a2


#8648 Nostradamus

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:49 PM

QUOTE (Fenris @ Feb 28 2012, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah. It's kinda ridiculous. rolleyes.gif



I can't tell if it's PRO NS or Anti but when I watched it Hinata looked appauled at Naruto for not sticking up for her or something. So..



It's neither, it's a moment where studio pierrot themselves admitted that they are Hinata fans.
"Naruto: - The staff of “Naruto” are Hinata fans"

                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#8649 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:10 PM

QUOTE (Fyuria'sLeo @ Feb 27 2012, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I want Hinata to confront Sakura and ask her what she feels towards Naruto. Reminds me of an anime I watched.

That actually sounds... reasonable. tongue.gif

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#8650 Dragunov

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:26 AM

QUOTE (Fyuria'sLeo @ Feb 27 2012, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I want Hinata to confront Sakura and ask her what she feels towards Naruto. Reminds me of an anime I watched.

And then they become rivals..........perfect tongue.gif

#8651 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:35 AM

QUOTE (Dragunov @ Feb 28 2012, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And then they become rivals..........perfect tongue.gif

No, then Hinata dates Sasuke, all problems solved. biggrin.gif

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#8652 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 01:38 AM

QUOTE (Namaenash @ Feb 28 2012, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hm, if that's the case, such argument can also be used for Lee against Sakura, for Ino against Sasuke or any [supporting character] against [main lead]. What was the point of [supporting character]'s role if [the main lead] doesn't return his/her feelings?

Actually, Lee and Ino can exist without the romance. Does Lee/Ino think of Sakura/Sasuke every panel he/she appears?

Lee was an important character, he showed Naruto and Sasuke, how hard work can overcome anything despite the disadvantages.
Ino's character is focused more on being the heroine's best friend/rival, and how rivalry can help one become better.
Lee and Ino's character do not exist solely on romance.
QUOTE
Naruto and Sakura, although can be independently defined, they compliment each other (foreshadowed by iruka's comment on Heaven and Earth). The message is quite clear in that chapter.

Some of examples are:
- Naruto is weak with genjutsu, while Sakura is very good at it (refer to the arc with chiyoo-baasan)
- Heaven and earth comment by Iruka
- Naruto has a massive amount of chakra, while Sakura is very good at chakra control.
- Naruto gets hurt a lot, Sakura is a medic which can easily patch him up tongue.gif
... And many more.

I don't disagree here.

Edited by narunarunaru, 28 February 2012 - 01:38 AM.

268702-181926-kaworu-nagisa.jpg

#8653 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 02:57 AM

QUOTE (Fyuria'sLeo @ Feb 27 2012, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I want Hinata to confront Sakura and ask her what she feels towards Naruto. Reminds me of an anime I watched.


Agreed, Leo. Me, I've wanted Hinata to feel some jealousy toward Sakura at how close she and Naruto are. It'd help her character grow a good bit since she'd realize she might not have Naruto's heart fully.

#8654 Shadow Wolf

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 03:01 AM

QUOTE (Namaenash @ Feb 27 2012, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hm, if that's the case, such argument can also be used for Lee against Sakura, for Ino against Sasuke or any [supporting character] against [main lead]. What was the point of [supporting character]'s role if [the main lead] doesn't return his/her feelings?

Naruto and Sakura, although can be independently defined, they compliment each other (foreshadowed by iruka's comment on Heaven and Earth). The message is quite clear in that chapter.

Some of examples are:
- Naruto is weak with genjutsu, while Sakura is very good at it (refer to the arc with chiyoo-baasan)
- Heaven and earth comment by Iruka
- Naruto has a massive amount of chakra, while Sakura is very good at chakra control.
- Naruto gets hurt a lot, Sakura is a medic which can easily patch him up tongue.gif
... And many more.


I also remembered that, while Naruto is good at taking hits, Sakura is good at "evading" hits (since that's a medic's priority in battle).

Anyway, the more you think about it, the more Naruto and Sakura compliment each other. However, whet makes them different than NaruHina is their communication with each other. After all, what's a romance? "A friendship set on fire."

QUOTE (Fyuria'sLeo @ Feb 27 2012, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I want Hinata to confront Sakura and ask her what she feels towards Naruto. Reminds me of an anime I watched.


Love Hina comes to mind. Which one has a similar scene?

#8655 Namaenash

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 03:09 AM

QUOTE (narunarunaru @ Feb 28 2012, 01:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually, Lee and Ino can exist without the romance. Does Lee/Ino think of Sakura/Sasuke every panel he/she appears?

Lee was an important character, he showed Naruto and Sasuke, how hard work can overcome anything despite the disadvantages.
Ino's character is focused more on being the heroine's best friend/rival, and how rivalry can help one become better.
Lee and Ino's character do not exist solely on romance.

I don't disagree here.


Precisely. If Lee and Ino can exist solely without romance, why Hinata cannot? She has things to settle with her father and sister, she will potentially lead her clan, she can contribute to settle main/branch issue together with Neji, and potentially many other significant roles which can define her character better.

Does she need Naruto to do all of these? No.

Does Naruto need Hinata to achieve his major goals? No. He doesn't even need her for being the driving reasons.

Does Sakura need Naruto to realize the dream of Team 7 smiling again? Yes. She entrusted this to both Naruto and Sasuke. Although practically, it will all depend on Naruto.

Does Naruto need Sakura? I believe so. She has been one of his driving factor to do the impossible. Refer to his fight with Gaara in part I. Refer to his conversation with Yamato after he went KN4; turning into kyuubi mode and unable to control his emotions is deemed as failure to Naruto.

Bottom line: even Hinata can be independently defined.

Edited by Namaenash, 28 February 2012 - 03:11 AM.

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"What? What are you saying?"

"It's okay, this is what I came here to do. I can save today, but you... you can save the world."


#8656 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:26 AM

QUOTE (Namaenash @ Feb 28 2012, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Precisely. If Lee and Ino can exist solely without romance, why Hinata cannot? She has things to settle with her father and sister, she will potentially lead her clan, she can contribute to settle main/branch issue together with Neji, and potentially many other significant roles which can define her character better.

Does she need Naruto to do all of these? No.

Does Naruto need Hinata to achieve his major goals? No. He doesn't even need her for being the driving reasons.

Does Sakura need Naruto to realize the dream of Team 7 smiling again? Yes. She entrusted this to both Naruto and Sasuke. Although practically, it will all depend on Naruto.

Does Naruto need Sakura? I believe so. She has been one of his driving factor to do the impossible. Refer to his fight with Gaara in part I. Refer to his conversation with Yamato after he went KN4; turning into kyuubi mode and unable to control his emotions is deemed as failure to Naruto.

Bottom line: even Hinata can be independently defined.

She should have been able to exist without romance just like you say. But the bottom line is, she didn't.
What you are talking about are all potentials, what if's that still didn't happen. At this point of the manga she didn't do anything significant yet that doesn't involve Naruto. The accused are assumed guilty unless proven otherwise. I will agree with you if after 100 chapters she tries hard to become the clan leader because she thinks it's her role to abolish the curse seal, to make the branch and the main family united. But as of now, I don't see any panels in the manga that tells me she exists other than romance.

I'm not denying that Naruto needs Sakura, or Sakura needs Naruto. My point was that they still had a significant role in the manga without the other.
I haven't seen Hinata do something significant that doesn't involve Naruto yet.

That's why I think there is no meaning to Hinata's character if NaruHina doesn't happen. That doesn't mean it will happen though. Quite the contrary actually.

Edited by narunarunaru, 28 February 2012 - 04:47 AM.

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#8657 Gyro136

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 05:23 AM

QUOTE (ciardha @ Feb 26 2012, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
She already does. Read the manga rather than only watching the anime adaption.

She does? DETAILS!... please smile.gif

#8658 ciardha

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:51 AM

QUOTE (Gyro136 @ Feb 28 2012, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
She does? DETAILS!... please smile.gif


It begins unconsciously way back in chapter 5 (Kishmoto even makes this explicit in the first databook when he talks about Sakura's feelings about Naruto and shows her blushing at his heroic bravado in chapter 5). Then there is chapter 11 where she even realizes she's feeling something, even as naive as she is at that point, that she recognizes as romantic feelings toward Naruto. It doesn't repulse her, merely confuses her...

Then you have the premiere of her Naruto only smile (the smile she only gives when thinking about Naruto) when Sasuke informs her that Naruto was the one who saved her from Gaara, and then we see her thinking about this and she blushes and smiles even bigger. Then there is the moment comes where she truly shifts over to beginning to consciously feel romantic love toward Naruto- immediately after he makes the promise of a lifetime. Her thought echoes some of her words to Naruto in chapters 469-70. We see the shift from Sasuke to Naruto is already beginning when she tries to get Naruto to give up on his promise to her, and then failing that she vows to become stronger and promises the next time they would go after Sasuke together (note, how she has already shifted away from her feelings about Sasuke and is centering anything concerning Sasuke with Naruto's bond to him.) All that (and more that I passed over for reasons of brevity)


Then there is part 2- starting at the very first moment she sees Naruto again for the first time in 2 1/2 years- she smiles, blushes and overtly flirts with Naruto. (Contrast this with the first part 2 meeting with Sasuke- No smile, no blush, absolutely no flirting whatsoever. She has a moment of awe, which immediately shifts to fear, then anger fueled action when he threatens Naruto....) There is a near confession to Naruto pretty early on in part 2, during the rescue Gaara arc, when she begins to cry in anguish and fear for Naruto.... Then you have the famous 4 tails Naruto and aftermath scene 296-97, where Yamato makes it completely obvious to Sakura what her confused feelings for Naruto are (we can tell from her flirtation and near confession she knew she felt some kind of romantic attraction to Naruto she seems to just be a bit muddled on what the depth of her feelings were up till Yamato clarifies it for her)- she knows what he was saying- her eyes open wide in surprised realization. (Note as well her shout to Naruto in his 4 tails form- "Stop! I'll bring Sasuke back for you!")

From that point on Sakura shifts in the way she acts around Naruto, she acts as if she is already Naruto's girlfriend- the flirty teasing about nicknames in 311, the bedroom eyes look she gives Naruto when offering to feed him in 343, plus moving in so close that had she succeeded in feeding Naruto (a subtly romantic sensual act in and of itself when between a boy and a girl, Sakura's actions with her words makes it overtly sensual- thus her embarrassed "busted!" look when Kakashi walks in and teases Naruto. She has a look on her face that shows she's embarrassed at being caught nearly doing something a bit naughty in public. Then you have her romantic embrace of Naruto in front of the whole village in 450. (the romantic nature is made obvious by Kakashi's light blush, and Gai and Kiba's leers at observing this public romantic act.)

Then you have Sakura's overt confession in Chapter 469-70 and Sai's emphasis on how real her feelings are for Naruto in chapter 474, which Naruto looks a bit abashed about being kind of an ass about- just because she muddled it up with her conscious determination to end all emotional attachment to Sasuke. (And also, no Naruto didn't actually hate her for trying to fool herself that she had eliminated all her feelings about Sasuke- just like Sakura in chapter 4 about Naruto, Naruto didn't actually hate Sakura- both were just poorly articulated ways of saying they felt a bit irritated at the other at the time. Note Naruto's shocked look when Sai says that Sakura thought Naruto would hate her if he knew she was going to kill Sasuke.) Naruto's angry and flippant behavior did temporarily make Sakura think Naruto did hate her (and made her think as well Naruto's bond to Sasuke was deeper than his love for her), but that was resolved the moment he rescued her from Sasuke, and thanks to Sai's words Naruto got a clearer vision of Sakura's feeling, yes, she is romantically in love with Naruto, whatever is left of her feelings about Sasuke it's not something romantic anymore and not anything she feels any happiness about, it's a painful bond. You see this expressed through Naruto's tender continuation of physical contact after her sets her down, and Sakura's loving adoration when she looks up into Naruto's eyes and says thank you. Look at Naruto's mental image of Sakura (and his age peers) in chapter 505, page 2. Sakura looks to Naruto with an openly loving gaze. He has taken in her feelings for him.

Much of this is distorted in a way to minimize it or outright left out of the anime adaption. The anime adaption is not trustworthy, read the manga. As with most manga creators Kishimoto has almost no connection or influence on what the anime adaption does. Trust the manga source not the adaption.
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#8659 Turson

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE (ciardha @ Feb 28 2012, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then you have Sakura's overt confession in Chapter 469-70 and Sai's emphasis on how real her feelings are for Naruto in chapter 474, which Naruto looks a bit abashed about being kind of an ass about

Did Sai said that Sakura loves Naruto? I dont remember that.

#8660 tricksie

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 03:51 PM

i think we should just pin ciardha's post and refer all nonbelievers to that in the future. well done!




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