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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#8401 Psychox

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:03 PM

 

Nothing will ever stop the "debating". People always look for loop holes to explain why this or that happened the way that it did, and when they can't find any in the chapter itself, they make them up. Look at #631. We have:

 

1) Minato assuming Sakura to be Naruto's girlfriend.

2) Naruto agreeing that she's "more or less" his girlfriend.

3) Sakura not denying any of it.

4) Confirmation of the Sakura/Kushina parallel from Minato.

 

Even though we believe this is evidence enough of Kishimoto's intentions, there are those that argue against it.

 

1) Minato doesn't know Naruto on a personal level, so he doesn't know about his feelings for Hinata.

2) Naruto meant "girl friend", as in a friend that happens to be female, not girlfriend.

3) Sakura hits Naruto right after he says it because she doesn't agree.

4) Parallels mean nothing.

 

Of course, we do the same thing with NaruHina and SasuSaku moments. Fans of NH felt that #615 was concrete evidence of Naruto's love for Hinata, but most of us here found other ways to explain the reason why that interaction happened.

 

We all take different things away from each chapter, so this never ending fight will just keep going back and forth. Two characters could share a kiss on panel and there would still be arguments made that one character is confused, or they haven't had a chance to respond to so-and-so's confession yet, or it was just platonic, so on and so forth...

 

If anything, I can see this ship war worsening whenever the final pairing(s) are revealed. We're going to start seeing arguments like this: "Naruto and Sakura will break up eventually because she abuses him so much", or "Naruto's feelings for Sakura will eventually come between his relationship with Hinata", or "Sakura won't stay in a loveless marriage. Once she sees how Sasuke really is, she'll leave him." The speculation will never die.

Wait , if the context , verbiage, narrative doesn't show that Naruto reciprocates Hinatas ROMANTIC feelings how are they to tell the opposite ? The moment was romantic just for Hinata Naruto was there just to fill the moment like a fodder ..

Naruto is oblivious to all HInata did all of her actions remained unanswered, they are influencing characteristics in the heroes that don't flow in the manga just to make up arguments ..

Minato is Kishi in disguise.

Naruto knows pretty well what is he talking about , just because he doesn't answer Hinata's feelings doesn't mean that he has no idea what is going on.. another excuse

Sakura hits Naruto because he embarrassed her typical tsundere moment -_-

Oh ,so now all of a sudden parallels don't matter? Weren't they clinging to that idea the whole time?


Well , those moments are the red herring , just a throw away they lack cohesiveness and consistency.

All i see are evasive maneuvers nothing more .


Abuses him .. pfft this is the worst argument ever . Its called Comic relief , but lets ignore that because Hinata got friend zoned . Hinata is irrelevant , side characters don't get that much of attention ... huh..

After the ''war' is over i see those kind of fan fictions all over .. They are jealous , that the conclusion.


Edited by Psychox, 19 September 2013 - 08:06 PM.

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#8402 Darkness

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:07 PM

 

Here's the worse of the worse: "Those kids aren't theirs..." or "That baby is adopted, it isn't Sakura and Naruto's..." :roll:

 

Or maybe even: "You're all nutzz, this is all part of the Eye of the Moon Plan can't u see??" "They're gonna wake up soon, nothing is really happening!!"   :banana:


Edited by Darkness, 19 September 2013 - 08:09 PM.

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#8403 arian_rad

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:08 PM

 
Nothing will ever stop the "debating". People always look for loop holes to explain why this or that happened the way that it did, and when they can't find any in the chapter itself, they make them up. Look at #631. We have:
 
1) Minato assuming Sakura to be Naruto's girlfriend.
2) Naruto agreeing that she's "more or less" his girlfriend.
3) Sakura not denying any of it.
4) Confirmation of the Sakura/Kushina parallel from Minato.
 
Even though we believe this is evidence enough of Kishimoto's intentions, there are those that argue against it.
 
1) Minato doesn't know Naruto on a personal level, so he doesn't know about his feelings for Hinata.
2) Naruto meant "girl friend", as in a friend that happens to be female, not girlfriend.
3) Sakura hits Naruto right after he says it because she doesn't agree.
4) Parallels mean nothing.
 
Of course, we do the same thing with NaruHina and SasuSaku moments. Fans of NH felt that #615 was concrete evidence of Naruto's love for Hinata, but most of us here found other ways to explain the reason why that interaction happened.
 
We all take different things away from each chapter, so this never ending fight will just keep going back and forth. Two characters could share a kiss on panel and there would still be arguments made that one character is confused, or they haven't had a chance to respond to so-and-so's confession yet, or it was just platonic, so on and so forth...
 
If anything, I can see this ship war worsening whenever the final pairing(s) are revealed. We're going to start seeing arguments like this: "Naruto and Sakura will break up eventually because she abuses him so much", or "Naruto's feelings for Sakura will eventually come between his relationship with Hinata", or "Sakura won't stay in a loveless marriage. Once she sees how Sasuke really is, she'll leave him." The speculation will never die.


Those final arguments are ones I can take with a grain of salt and laugh at because if kishi had these futuristic intentions in his mind, then why would he even make narusaku the end pairing to begin with? Of course I agree with the pairing war worsening for a few days but I think the way I would react is the same as many others would. Denial always leads to acceptance. If narusaku is made the final pairing people will always start off denying it but because it is so obvious now and there is nothing the fans of the other pairings will do, it will obviously and eventually lead to the acceptance stage of these pairing wars. Because things are not so clear as of right now and points can be taken away and given, I'm saying the next moment there will be no taking away and giving because I believe it will make it much more obvious than all the previous moments and it will be the greatest two sided expression of romance in the story thus far. That's just my opinion on it though.

#8404 Slextrem

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:11 PM

Here's the worse of the worse: "Those kids aren't theirs..." or "That baby is adopted, it isn't Sakura and Naruto's..." :roll:

 

We'll need Jerry Springer to determine who the baby daddy is. :hehehe:



#8405 Derock

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:13 PM

 

We'll need Jerry Springer to determine who the baby daddy is. :hehehe:

 

You mean Maury.


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#8406 Slextrem

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:15 PM

You mean Maury.

 

Both, probably.



#8407 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:22 PM

While I understand the whole context about pairing war wanting to pull a twist on the event, it doesn't excuse the direct of the chapter. For 615, I waited to see any follow-up for it, and to be honest, there was none until 633 which turned out to be a friendly interpretation. Here's the thing about pairing war that is misguided. A pairing related moment must be direct and not ambiguous. I would have take it have it not he made 631 the way it is. 615 I waited because Naruto never got anything different from before and so, I was right. Everything is a pass. Here's my view:

 

615 was a moment to wait for a follow-up

 

631 was a moment that can't and shouldn't be altered.

 

615 is not a desperate attempt to see it differently, though you can go too deep to make it seem desperate. 631 is already self-made, so any different turn will be desperate because Minato compared her to Kushina for a great reason. Last time I checked, they got married, not remain good friends. This isn't me talking as a shipping fan, this is me talking as a general reader who sees how it is written and what I see is the obvious. The sad part is that we are getting close to the status of "Ok, it's endgame. I'm done" for NS because it just need one push and it's the only one that is in good status. NH is in normal status but now closed. SS is in caution-to-danger status.

 

The funny part is that when it's done, all of our arguments would be dropped for other pairings. For example, to me, anime covered 573 yet I don't feel the same as before, thinking Hinata wants love and will win by holding hand after the war for the first time. It's not just because it has happened, but it's because the mind is now in the track of where the story is truly telling. I remember when the critic's book was released, many didn't understand why NH is in enlightenment, not love with NS/SS/others. While I don't buy the idea from the book, I do buy it from the original source, the manga. That said it's almost time to get the mind straight and if there are people in denial, like today, just let them be and just enjoy it with others that feels the same.



#8408 HauntedCake

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:29 PM

What about Hinata holding Naruto's face with her hand. SURELY even Naruto got the message she was trying to be romantic including holding her hand


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#8409 T XD

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:35 PM

What about Hinata holding Naruto's face with her hand. SURELY even Naruto got the message she was trying to be romantic including holding her hand

Naruto is stupid, but he's not that extremely stupid. Naruto had got the message in her confession chapter. It was clear from his face when she had told him that she loves him. He knows her feelings now. He's not reciprocating cause he loves Sakura like we know... The melody that we always chant.

 

For sure, Hinata won't confess again and won't hold his face again. The message is delivered long ago.

 

 

We all take different things away from each chapter, so this never ending fight will just keep going back and forth. Two characters could share a kiss on panel and there would still be arguments made that one character is confused, or they haven't had a chance to respond to so-and-so's confession yet, or it was just platonic, so on and so forth...

 

If anything, I can see this ship war worsening whenever the final pairing(s) are revealed. We're going to start seeing arguments like this: "Naruto and Sakura will break up eventually because she abuses him so much", or "Naruto's feelings for Sakura will eventually come between his relationship with Hinata", or "Sakura won't stay in a loveless marriage. Once she sees how Sasuke really is, she'll leave him." The speculation will never die.

Yup, that's my bet on how this pairing war will achieve.


Edited by T XD, 19 September 2013 - 08:37 PM.


#8410 Psychox

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    Das ist Wilde Verwegen Jagd .

Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:40 PM

What about Hinata holding Naruto's face with her hand. SURELY even Naruto got the message she was trying to be romantic including holding her hand

As James said , the guy had A LOT of opportunities not just with Sakura but with HInata too , but .... yeah.. :D
He is a little silly ^_^.


Edited by Psychox, 19 September 2013 - 08:41 PM.

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#8411 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:42 PM

Like many has said, it's just never meant to be as in not in Kishi's book.

#8412 Nostradamus

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:49 PM

@HauntedCake It's not the fact that Naruto didn't get the message. He got the message when Hinata confessed, he just doesn't view her in that light. And some people need to accept that and stop making excuses. Like Naruto is to stupid to understand Hinata's feelings or Naruto already is in love with Hinata or that he will fall for her at one point and any other excuse you can think of.


Edited by Nostradamus, 19 September 2013 - 08:50 PM.

                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#8413 Dkey

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:37 PM

 

Funny enough, FT had potential to spark a pairing war on Naruto's scale, but Mashima chickened out. I wouldn't be so surprised if Kishi gave him advice:

 

Mashima: Kishimoto-sensei, what are you doing, calling this late?

Kishi: Hiro-kun, for the love of god, do not try to make a LOVE TRIANGLE!!!

Mashima:  What are you talking about, sensei?

Kishi: I'm talking about NaLi vs NaLu!! I just read your newest chapter (198), and I hope to god you're not going to make the same mistake I did!!!

Mashima: What's wrong with that?

Kishi: What's wrong?? What's wrong??!! What's wrong is how you're severely underestimating fandoms!!!

Mashima: Seriously??

Kishi: Go and check the wretched hive that is called the interwebz and call me the next morning. Type in Narusaku and Naruhina and show me what you get.

*next morning*

Mashima: Ok, sensei you were right. I'm seriously regretting it now.

Kishi: Good, now you have to figure out a way outta this mess.

Mashima: Well, trolling always works...

Kishi: You've been to Kubo's haven't you?

 

Awesome dialogue.

But why is Kubo titled the king of trolling in manga?

 

While I understand the whole context about pairing war wanting to pull a twist on the event, it doesn't excuse the direct of the chapter. For 615, I waited to see any follow-up for it, and to be honest, there was none until 633 which turned out to be a friendly interpretation. Here's the thing about pairing war that is misguided. A pairing related moment must be direct and not ambiguous. I would have take it have it not he made 631 the way it is. 615 I waited because Naruto never got anything different from before and so, I was right. Everything is a pass. Here's my view:

 

615 was a moment to wait for a follow-up

 

631 was a moment that can't and shouldn't be altered.

 

615 is not a desperate attempt to see it differently, though you can go too deep to make it seem desperate. 631 is already self-made, so any different turn will be desperate because Minato compared her to Kushina for a great reason. Last time I checked, they got married, not remain good friends. This isn't me talking as a shipping fan, this is me talking as a general reader who sees how it is written and what I see is the obvious. The sad part is that we are getting close to the status of "Ok, it's endgame. I'm done" for NS because it just need one push and it's the only one that is in good status. NH is in normal status but now closed. SS is in caution-to-danger status.

 

The funny part is that when it's done, all of our arguments would be dropped for other pairings. For example, to me, anime covered 573 yet I don't feel the same as before, thinking Hinata wants love and will win by holding hand after the war for the first time. It's not just because it has happened, but it's because the mind is now in the track of where the story is truly telling. I remember when the critic's book was released, many didn't understand why NH is in enlightenment, not love with NS/SS/others. While I don't buy the idea from the book, I do buy it from the original source, the manga. That said it's almost time to get the mind straight and if there are people in denial, like today, just let them be and just enjoy it with others that feels the same.

 

I agree. Most of the time people rage/jubilation over one chapter or one moment. Yet the thing is one needs to have patience to see where that moment is heading.

615 came with a pretty powerful romantic basis.

Afterwards comes 631 and shakes that all up.

I saw this a lot in Beelzebub between the rivalry of Hilda with Aoi but that rivalry needs to emphasized while in Naruto there is no Sakura Hinata rivalry.

 

If something as big as those 2 chapters come for either of the 3 big pairings then again we have to see which of them will get a follow up.

 

As for the pairing fandom in general...........we are horrible people. They take the Hinata is on the last page as proof, we speculate that because the chapter is about regrets and that Naruto shared his heart to everyone including Sakura then it foreshadows a moment in the future. Instead of following the story as it goes we seek pairings everywhere.

 

As for NS, I think it's very safe. Minato's comment weighs a lot, and it isn't to out of context for it not to be true.



#8414 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:34 PM

Say what was the critics reviews on Volume 64 not the YouTube reviewers, the professional ones.



#8415 Question22

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:59 PM

What i noticed that Sakura loves Naruto and Sasuke

Buuuuut she doesnt love Sasuke like she did in part 1 it means she is grown enough to realise sasuke is the criminal  right now

 

that is helping the villiage

 

 

And Sakura's love for Sasuke was selfish becuse she loved Sasuke becuse he was popular and strong

 

like most girls did.

 

she didnt have a reason why she loved him personaly

 

and i wonder how did Naruto and Sakura met? im really curious about that


Edited by Question22, 19 September 2013 - 11:01 PM.

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#8416 Hanabi

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:52 PM

@HauntedCake It's not the fact that Naruto didn't get the message. He got the message when Hinata confessed, he just doesn't view her in that light. And some people need to accept that and stop making excuses. Like Naruto is to stupid to understand Hinata's feelings or Naruto already is in love with Hinata or that he will fall for her at one point and any other excuse you can think of.

i second this so much.

 

i have been seeing "what about hinataaaaaa" on almost every sites including wikis :wallbash:. they think a person love is so easy to change  :argh:  like a friend of mine said "he doesn't see her in that light.. why can't girls understand that"


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#8417 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 12:05 AM

When NS becomes endgame then I expect there to be 1,076 fanfics about Sakura cheating on Naruto with Sasuke, Naruto walking out of the marriage with Sakura because of domestic violence and going to Hinata, Sakura dying and Hinata comforting Naruto that would lead to eventual romance, Naruto finding out that his kid "Minato" was actually a child between Sakura and Sasuke and so on and on.


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#8418 Question22

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 12:32 AM

Never stood up your oponent's level be better than him by simply being civil :) *\(logic)


Our ship has maybe sank but our memories of debate , struggling , defending ... will stay in our hearths

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#8419 Hanabi

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 12:45 AM

off topic, but did anybody see something weird at the current naruto opening? lmao...

an Anti-Aircraft Gun at Madara's.......

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#8420 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 12:47 AM

off topic, but did anybody see something weird at the current naruto opening? lmao...

an Anti-Aircraft Gun at Madara's.......

sharinganlol


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