19964 replies to this topic

[六道仙人]

We know it's not a source, however it's a tool to mislead masses.

unfortunately for us... since they're NaruSasu and SasuNaru, I'm pretty sure it's a unofficial poll based on web results...

[T XD]

unfortunately for us... since they're NaruSasu and SasuNaru, I'm pretty sure it's a unofficial poll based on web results...

True. I mean what's the difference between NaruSasu and SasuNaru, they made a mistake that shows that these tops aren't true and correct.
The one of Chatte's real top is the right one. I saw it from a few months, and it has been the same ranking of the couples.

Edited by T XD, 13 January 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[redragon88]

I refuse to take seriously a poll for pairings in a manga aimed at teenage boys that indicate that the top pairing is KakaIru. No, just no. I don't know who voted in that poll but it was definitely not Naruto's target audience.

Moving on from that:

If Sakura can still hold romantic feelings for Sasuke after all this time, what motivation is there for Naruto to simply let go of his affection for Sakura? I just can't think of any.

Argument that can be used to in favor of Hinata getting Naruto can be used right back for Naruto getting Sakura. Any statement that claims how much better off Naruto is to be loving Hinata can be used to say how luck Sakura would be for loving Naruto. It's a never ending standstill. And the thing is that Naruto is definitely way more stubborn with what he wants than anyone else, so he should be the last person to imagine changing his mind.

[T XD]

I refuse to take seriously a poll for pairings in a manga aimed at teenage boys that indicate that the top pairing is KakaIru. No, just no. I don't know who voted in that poll but it was definitely not Naruto's target audience.

Moving on from that:

If Sakura can still hold romantic feelings for Sasuke after all this time, what motivation is there for Naruto to simply let go of his affection for Sakura? I just can't think of any.

Argument that can be used to in favor of Hinata getting Naruto can be used right back for Naruto getting Sakura. Any statement that claims how much better off Naruto is to be loving Hinata can be used to say how luck Sakura would be for loving Naruto. It's a never ending standstill. And the thing is that Naruto is definitely way more stubborn with what he wants than anyone else, so he should be the last person to imagine changing his mind.

That and Naruto, suddenly after few chapters, having feelings for Hinata and giving up on Sakura just like that, really can't happen. At the very least, it would be confusing. Why would he have feelings for Hinata ? Why would he give up on Sakura, and adding too, giving up on Sakura suddenly and out of nowhere ?

If the mangaka wanted from the protagonist to be with a side character, he/she would at least show us something coming from Naruto that can be considered important and that would be from in the least at the beginning of Shippuden, like in the first or second arc, so that he/she can continue it with another, even for a far away, moment or hint.

Edited by T XD, 13 January 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

That and Naruto, suddenly after few chapters, having feelings for Hinata and giving up on Sakura just like that, really can't happen. At the very least, it would be confusing. Why would he have feelings for Hinata ? Why would he give up on Sakura, and adding too, giving up on Sakura suddenly and out of nowhere ?

If the mangaka wanted from the protagonist to be with a side character, he/she would at least show us something coming from Naruto that can be considered important and that would be from in the least at the beginning of Shippuden, like in the first or second arc, so that he/she can continue it with another, even for a far away, moment or hint.

About Hinata she's acting very selfless towards Naruto lately, when she said she would give up chasing him and now when she tried to sacrifice herself for Naruto again, Neji said she wasnt willing to die becasue she loved him but because the same reason why Neji sacrificed his life to save Naruto, i mean if Naruto shows any hint towards Hinata, it's most probably that she will accept Naruto loving Sakura and will wish for his happiness.

But does not change the fact she was selfish with that comments when she hold Naruto's hand but whatever.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 13 January 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[T XD]

About Hinata she's acting very selfless towards Naruto lately, when she said she would give up chasing him and now when she tried to sacrifice herself for Naruto again, Neji said she wasnt willing to die becasue she loved him but because the same reason why Neji sacrificed his life to save Naruto, i mean if Naruto shows any hint towards Hinata, it's most probably that she will accept Naruto loving Sakura and will wish for his happiness.

But does not change the fact she was selfish with that comments when she hold Naruto's hand but whatever.

The selfless side from Hinata lately should be done for her character development cause she can't be selfish in her development. Plus, Neji said it, means it's selfless and to protect their friend.

Hinata knows that she got to move one, but Kishi will not make it any time soon for drama purposes of the manga. I expect him to show us more "N"H moments and "S"S moments.

Edited by T XD, 13 January 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

@redragon88: That's a good observation. That's the thing about Sakura: she really knows Naruto all too well. If we count the movie (depends on Kishi), then she really knows Naruto. That said people often forget that Hinata always talks about Naruto's nindo since the beginning. Even when Hinata talks about Naruto back in Chunnin Exam, she was talking about how Naruto will show everyone that he can succeed, which he did. Sakura, on the other hand, knows Naruto about him being hated by his own village, his suffering as jinchuuriki (even exploded when Gaara died), his bonds with Sasuke, his dreams, his nindo, his personality (no want to read...), and so much more. It's no wonder Sai commented that she was very gentle with Naruto. It's also no wonder that Sakura was the main character in the movie because who else would understand Naruto. There are few but I think purposely have Sakura alone with Naruto. After all, Kishi hates Sakura, right? /sarcasm.

The latest development for Hinata finally got to talk to him without being shy and explain that the nindo is in fact a good one and shouldn't drop it at the very least. It is fine that she made a comment that people will die for him because of Neji, so she managed to connect that and nindo. Kuruma has to explain that there's a reason why people sacrifice for him. Other than that, that's really all to it. You know, didn't Rin supports Obito to be Hokage? It does suggest that in that chapter. Actually, Sakura is really defensive for Naruto when people bad mouth at him. Even to Sasuke. Yes, that's right people. Anyway, time is coming near and soon, we will know where are heading to. You know, I think the beast will break free very soon, but we'll see.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

redragon88, what you say it is very true. I don't understand why so many people expect Naruto to move on from Sakura. The confession? Okay. Maybe this might reinforce the belief that Sakura will never love him like he loves her (Somehow, I think it did in this area) and he might look elsewhere. But think about it: Is this really the Naruto we know? I mean, he hasn't given up on Sasuke. You can argue "That's because it's more important!". Okay but if you look at it, to some changing Sasuke seems as impossible as getting Sakura to love him. How is Sakura loving him more impossible than saving Sasuke? I don't get it. Realistically, it's not if you pay attention to the manga. Sasuke might still care about Naruto in the smallest sliver of his heart but he has expressed nothing outloud but stubbornness and verbal killing intent.

While Sakura has flirted with him once or twice (Yes. It's literally hitting you in the face on those occassions. She actually finds him physically attractive and expressed it. Already, if you look at her dislike of him in the beginning, that's amazing. NH doesn't even have that. Naruto didn't even find her new revealing clothes attractive in the 6th movie. What does that tell you?) and has often put Naruto before herself and even Sasuke. Sakura cried uncontrollable tears for a full 3 minutes all because she had caused Naruto emotional suffering by doing the promise and hurting him with her feelings for Sasuke. Over only his feelings. That was a very strong hint she might be falling in love with him. Sakura barely even reacted when Sasuke was ordered to be eliminated. If she's not in love with Naruto, why did she react that way? You could say she only loves him as a friend but even if that's true, it still implied that romantic or not Sakura still loves him more than Sasuke. She would chose his safety and consider his feelings more than Sasuke. Sakura fully proved this during her confession when she went to Naruto first instead of killing Sasuke. How come so many people overlook all of this? Another thing. If she loves Naruto as a friend, then why have people blushing when she hugged him? Why have Yamato do the unfinished sentence that 100% implied Sakura was falling in love with Naruto? Why have her always feeling like she doesn't do enough for him? It makes absolutely no sense at all. And that's just the manga. Even the Third Databook said she had confusing feelings for him.

Is this selective reading? Can people really say Sakura will never love him without a craploud of doubts? Why think that, they say 540. Okay. That only mentions that she loves Sasuke but is depressed when thinking of him. It was never hinted that she didn't love Naruto either. Naruto doesn't think so but he's dense as hell. Is he really the best source? I can't get it. I really, really can't. If NaruSaku doesn't happen then only logical option is no pairings. That's it. If it ends in NaruHina or SasuSaku, it's bad pairing writing. That is the blunt truth. Without a doubt, NS is the least one-sided if you compare it to NH/SS. It has the most chances.

I don't understand this hypocrisy of the NaruHina fandom. They cling so badly to the fact that Sakura loves Sasuke, they believe their pairing will happen. But why does Naruto have to change his feelings? So Hinata can be happy? It makes more sense for Naruto to move on than Sakura? How? My argument to that is Sakura views her love interest in a bad light. Naruto shows no sign he sees Sakura in a bad light so it makes less sense for him to move on. He told her "I hate people who lie to themselves!" but yet he mostly forgave her because he understood her intentions thanks to Sai. Sakura loves a criminal. She doesn't want to. If 540 wasn't clear enough, then Sakura's confession to Naruto was. She said all Sasuke does is get further away from her and breaks her heart. Does that sound like "I can win Sasuke-kun over someday. My love will reach him. I'm proud that I love him."? It doesn't! It says the opposite. That alone proves NaruSaku has a better chance.

Really the ONLY thing keeping NaruHina fandom so hopeful and sure of their pairing happening is because Sakura loves Sasuke. They don't want to believe it's possible she loves Naruto. If you ask them, they'll say "NaruHina will happen because Naruto held her hand! Besides, Sakura loves Sasuke." Sakura hugged Naruto without an ulterior motive and very little time passed since the confession. He obviously still loved her then if his blush at the beginning and angry attitude over her lying about loving him was an indication. He called it a "joke". Naruto felt mad that she was doing this to him when she still has feelings for Sasuke and possibly not taking his feelings seriously enough. That could've changed his feelings but he already forgave her. Why believe differently? I feel like bashing my head against a wall at their ignorance. You could at least see that NS is not dead and is still possible but more than half of them don't even do that. It's so frustrating!

And look at this. I just recently came back from debating with a NaruHina fan over 615. Countered most of his responses I believe (Bringing up the typical arguments. Sakura's not into Naruto, she loves Sasuke, Hinata deserves him more, NaruHina coupling has "Quanity over Quality" while NaruSaku has quantity but bad quality apparently, Naruto never blushed during Sakura's confession yada yada) and look at his response to me after my recent posts of debating:

I will never get narusaku fans who obviously think the most incredible love story is 1 where a guy, or even a girl sits & wait for their love interest to get over their love interest and possibly develop feelings 4 u. While some1 who has loved u since they first laid eyes on u, who is ready 2 die 2 save your life is crappy writing and lack of development. But u & other Saku fans have the right 2 ur opinions & preferences so all i can say is it was fun debating with u take care.

This wasn't even a counter to my points. I almost feel like he was calling the NaruSaku fandom crappy through false sincerity. I'm under the impression he couldn't think of anymore arguments. And doesn't he notice the hypocrisy in these claims? He's basically describing his own pairing NaruHina! Really, doesn't he see the blatant hypocrisy? I'm actually worried for him.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 13 January 2013 - 07:12 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

The selfless side from Hinata lately should be done for her character development cause she can't be selfish in her development. Plus, Neji said it, means it's selfless and to protect their friend.

Hinata knows that she got to move one, but Kishi will not make it any time soon for drama purposes of the manga. I expect him to show us more "N"H moments and "S"S moments.

We already had "S"S moments.
i'm expecting a NS moment soon.

What was Jiraiya reason to become a wanderer?

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 13 January 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[sushi.]

We already had "S"S moments.
i'm expecting a NS moment soon.

What was Jiraiya reason to become a wanderer?

To look after Orochimaru, probably also to get away from Tsunade and Dan and write books.

[Slextrem]

After reading a few comments on my video that were left by NH and SS fans, it appears that some believe that Sakura's confession was the moment where Naruto stopped loving Sakura. They've interpreted it as canon proof that:

1) Sakura doesn't love Naruto
2) Naruto has moved on from Sakura
3) Sakura still loves Sasuke

If the confession was interpreted like that, it explains why we're seeing arguments about Naruto being in love with Hinata now. To them, Naruto hasn't suddenly fallen in love with Hinata. To them, Naruto started falling in love with Hinata after her confession, fell out of love with Sakura a little while after, and now is demonstrating physical affection toward Hinata on the battlefield, making NH "canon".

I won't even bother to explain why this doesn't make any sense, but one thing I will say is that part of me wishes Kishimoto had made Sakura's confession a little easier to interpret. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the complexity of the situation, but it bothers me to see such wild interpretations of it. While it was a complete mess, I don't think it comes anywhere near being canon proof of Naruto moving on from Sakura.

Edited by Slextrem, 13 January 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[PhenixElite]

After reading a few comments on my video that were left by NH and SS fans, it appears that some believe that Sakura's confession was the moment where Naruto stopped loving Sakura. They've interpreted it as canon proof that:

1) Sakura doesn't love Naruto
2) Naruto has moved on from Sakura
3) Sakura still loves Sasuke

If the confession was interpreted like that, it explains why we're seeing arguments about Naruto being in love with Hinata now. To them, Naruto hasn't suddenly falling in love with Hinata. To them, Naruto started falling in love with Hinata after her confession, fell out of love with Sakura a little while after, and now is demonstrating physical affection toward Hinata on the battlefield, making NH "canon".

I won't even bother to explain why this doesn't make any sense, but one thing I will say is that part of me wishes Kishimoto had made Sakura's confession a little easier to interpret. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the complexity of the situation, but it bothers me to see such wild interpretations of it. While it was a complete mess, I don't think it comes anywhere near being canon proof of Naruto moving on from Sakura.

I think kishi has done sakuras confession pretty well. But its not showing naruto moving on from sakura, how shall he fall in love with hinata afterwards? Off panel? and now we get to see a flashback where he thinks hinata is so much better then sakura and suddenly is in love with her .Now that would be bad writing from its finest.

But well as said kishi made a great scene with the confession. It was the best way to stall NS till the end. I wouldnt know a better way to keep the most developed pairing till the end.

Edited by PhenixElite, 13 January 2013 - 05:13 PM.

[Slextrem]

@RomanceGirl:

Lovely post! I agree with you completely. Without a doubt, Naruto has not gotten over his feelings for Sakura, and as you said, it's clear that Sakura has a bad impression of Sasuke. Given all of the development that she has with Naruto and the obvious change in attitude that she's had towards Sasuke, it's so much easier and makes much more sense for NaruSaku to become the canon pairing. NaruHina lacks development, and as you've stated, nothing has indicated that Naruto loves Hinata now. SasuSaku, well, that's a mess of it's own.

On my video, whenever I pointed out that 540 shows that Sakura doesn't like that she loves Sasuke, I received numerous comments stating that it doesn't matter, the fact that she still loves him is what's important. It's seems that some fans have completely overlooked Sakura's agony over her feelings for him. Maybe it doesn't matter to them, as long as SasuSaku becomes canon. Some said that Sakura falling in love with Naruto is impossible because of 540 - that, since Sakura still loves Sasuke despite him trying to kill her twice, it means she'll never get over him. It's interesting to see the perspective of the other fans. I never interpreted 540 in that way.

I think I know who you were debating with. Someone posted a nearly identical comment to that one on my video... The hypocrisy is horrible, I know. That's why I stopped "debating" with other fans. There really is no point to it. There's always one side that is too stubborn to acknowledge the arguments made by the other.

Edited by Slextrem, 13 January 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Great posts, everyone. Really enjoy reading from you guys. Keeps me awake at work. Yeah, a little sleepy, but this will keep me up. RomanceGirl, I didn't think you have shown your rant side but I understand what you mean. We are on the edge because this pairing takes its time a little too long. The thing is that Hinata already got what she wanted, so any small moments from NS can ruin it completely because NS trump card is still on hold, whether it's the final arc or Naruto's confession or Sakura's realization.

Here's the thing, Sakura thinks negative thoughts on Sasuke just recently. The last conclusion of Team 7 is that everyone will get a happy ending and hope for all of them to be in order, not necessarily coming back home, but all of them can be happy. Chapter 540 challenges Sakura once again, but this only time, it's all about romantic love and the result is negative. Kishi already stated that she still loves Sasuke before that chapter happened. So that chapter only restated his interview answer, but this time got Sakura upset about it. I felt that we could have gone deeper on her thoughts, but Zetsu shows up so yeah. Now we know the negative, is there a positive? Yes, but not from Sasuke, rather from Naruto. In a way, this is Naruto's chance to give her thoughts about that "great guy". Not saying Naruto will force himself to impress her, but he will do his usual things and after Sakura sees all that, it's possible that she can be confused about her feelings. People don't know their feelings until one moment stirs them up. Even so, they wouldn't understand it until they do math. Sakura seems the right person to do that.

[Chatte]

Well, here's a quick rewind of the timeline...


When you think about it, as I previously stated around, 540 happened like max. 5 days at most after Sasuke tried to kill Sakura. It's logic she will be thinking about him as her former crush isn't that great guy. And that great guy, well, she has a "problem" with him because of that not so great guy that comes in-between them.
Or to be fairly going to extremes, this idea just popped in my head... What IF Sakura was thinking at Sasuke because she is thinking that because of him, she and that great guy, can't be together, meaning, it's not working out for them? As in, she thinks that for her, and that great guy (Naruto) things aren't working out because of Sasuke? Meaning that's why she was thinking about Sasuke? With that sad face.
I wonder how many have thought at this...

Edited by Chatte, 13 January 2013 - 06:32 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Well, here's a quick rewind of the timeline...


When you think about it, as I previously stated around, 540 happened like max. 5 days at most after Sasuke tried to kill Sakura. It's logic she will be thinking about him as her former crush isn't that great guy. And that great guy, well, she has a "problem" with him because of that not so great guy that comes in-between them.
Or to be fairly going to extremes, this idea just popped in my head... What IF Sakura was thinking at Sasuke because she is thinking that because of him, she and that great guy, can't be together, meaning, it's not working out for them? As in, she thinks that for her, and that great guy (Naruto) things aren't working out because of Sasuke? Meaning that's why she was thinking about Sasuke? With that sad face.
I wonder how many have thought at this...

I doubt it was 5 days, my guess is two weeks or more i doubt that in 3 days the 5 great nations would have time to mobilize all their forces and stock supplies, arrange a strategic meeting and then make the plan, ship Naruto to that island, which it would have to take more than 2 days.

Like i said the great guy stuff, the problem is not that sasuke isnt a great guy the problem is herself thinking that she's a horrible person and does not deserve Naruto's love to the point she said "he must be a fool to love someome like me".
Only Naruto knows who Sakura really is.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 13 January 2013 - 06:39 PM.

[Chatte]

I doubt it was 5 days, my guess is two weeks or more i doubt that in 3 days the 5 great nations would have time to mobilize all their forces and stock supplies, arrange a strategic meeting and then make the plan, ship Naruto to that island, which it would have to take more than 2 days.

Well, as it it seemed to me when re-reading it, maximum a week has passed.That's the impression the timeline gives to me.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Well, as it it seemed to me when re-reading it, maximum a week has passed.That's the impression the timeline gives to me.

There were a lot of holes, Naruto on the village, hokage's meeting, army mobilizing, supply stocking, Naruto's sea travel, strategic meeting, Naruto's training, for me it took more than 2 weeks.
Obito too had to mobilize his forces, think about an strategy etc..

[Chatte]

There were a lot of holes, Naruto on the village, hokage's meeting, army mobilizing, supply stocking, Naruto's sea travel, strategic meeting, Naruto's training, for me it took more than 2 weeks.
Obito too had to mobilize his forces, think about an strategy etc..

Well, be it two weeks, it's still recent.
That's the idea.

Edited by Chatte, 13 January 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[Slextrem]

Well, as it it seemed to me when re-reading it, maximum a week has passed.That's the impression the timeline gives to me.

How long does it take to travel from the Land of Iron to Konoha? How much time passes between their return and Tsunade waking up from her coma? How much time passes between then and Naruto being sent on his "mission" to the island? How long does it take him to reach the island? How much time does he spend on the island? When does the war start? How much time does Sakura spend with Kakashi's unit? When does she leave for the medical tent? How much time is she working in the medical tent? When does Naruto leave the island with Bee? How long does it take him to reach the battlefield? When, during that time, does Sakura get confronted by the Lover Nin?

These are all questions that need to be considered when coming up with a timeline between Sasuke attacking Sakura and chapter 540. It's hard to come up with a solid timeline because there are a lot of things that happen off-panel and we aren't given a good perspective of how much time has actually passed. I believe it's been more than five days since the Summit Arc took place, as it would take at least a day to travel back to Konoha, another day before Tsunade wakes up, x amount of time for her to send Naruto to the island, x amount of time for Naruto to arrive at the island, who knows how long for the war to even start...

My guess is it's been, at the very least, a few weeks. That doesn't mean Sasuke isn't still fresh on her mind though. I imagine it would be very difficult to forget about your first love trying to kill you multiple times in the same day.

Edited by Slextrem, 13 January 2013 - 06:59 PM.