1124 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Nicely said 4life i agree .  
 
He is ? Then who knows maybe we can expect some NS combo attack with Naruto as her guide since she can't see the limbos of course that is if they don't get trap in the IT next chap .   

Yeah. I was going back to see how the chapter flow as well as that small smile that only MangaStream can help. When Naruto did his rasengan, you can see Sakura behind that. Remember, only his clones are after Madara. So yeah, Sasuke is alone up there. Not sure that's more metaphor but hey, it's up to Sasuke. Unless Naruto can go up in time. Either way, the plan is about to start so we'll see the path the series is taking.

[FireFox]

Yeah. I was going back to see how the chapter flow as well as that small smile that only MangaStream can help. When Naruto did his rasengan, you can see Sakura behind that. Remember, only his clones are after Madara. So yeah, Sasuke is alone up there. Not sure that's more metaphor but hey, it's up to Sasuke. Unless Naruto can go up in time. Either way, the plan is about to start so we'll see the path the series is taking.

Oh that i remember now  and actually that smile of hers you can even see it on the MP one i noticed that immediately when first read the chapter but yeah MS makes it more clear that's one thing that MP lacks .

 

Well for all purposes Naruto doesn't even have to go up there he can just blast it of with that huge BD of his if he goes full Kurama mode or he can fly via Chomei who knows but from that scene Sasuke was only going for meteors not the moon itself i mean how can he reach it if he can't breath in space ? The only way that its possible that i see it is destroying it  with some super long ass range attack and i don't think Sasuke has that Naruto is the closest one to do that but then again he's not Piccolo either LOL XD .     

[TouKen4Life3g]

Oh that i remember now  and actually that smile of hers you can even see it on the MP one i noticed that immediately when first read the chapter but yeah MS makes it more clear that's one thing that MP lacks .
 
Well for all purposes Naruto doesn't even have to go up there he can just blast it of with that huge BD of his if he goes full Kurama mode or he can fly via Chomei who knows but from that scene Sasuke was only going for meteors not the moon itself i mean how can he reach it if he can't breath in space ? The only way that its possible that i see it is destroying it  with some super long ass range attack and i don't think Sasuke has that Naruto is the closest one to do that but then again he's not Piccolo either LOL XD .

I never said sasuke will go to the moon. I mean stopping madara. Lol. Noticed that sasuke starts jumping on those rocks.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 17 May 2014 - 01:28 PM.

[Shadow Wolf]

That was for the sake of plot, Naruto had to appear weak for the great time of the story it even made it seem that he didnt improved at all on the two years and half of training, he took days to learn sage mode and days to learn Kurama mode and hours to learn bijuudama, he progressed so little during the two years and half of training that Kishi give the impression that he would improve way more if he stayed on the village rather than be traveling with Jiraiya.
(Maybe because Kishi's intent was to shown Naruto's training on screen never understood why he didnt showed his training with Jiraiya) it would make more sense.

Also Sakura was stronger than Naruto after the two years and half of training, look at her strenght and feats and compare to Naruto at that time.
Naruto only surpassed Sakura after he learned the rasenshuriken.

And to this post -which I find confusing- I must ask: What's your point?

My point is that you can't really hope for Sakura to implement something new to the Byakugou when...

1-She barely unlocked it during this war
2-Her fellow teammates took quite a long time to apply something new to the techniques learned from someone else.
and 3-She doesn't have access to the unconventional training methods that her teammates have.

[FireFox]

I never said sasuke will go to the moon. I mean stopping madara. Lol. Noticed that sasuke starts jumping on those rocks.

Oh! LOL Sorry for that then yeah he's closer to doing that but somehow i doubt that it will happen but then you never know  so yeah wait and see i guess , but it would be to god damn funny if they somehow pulled a Piccolo and then you see Madara going like    .   .

[TouKen4Life3g]

Oh! LOL Sorry for that then yeah he's closer to doing that but somehow i doubt that it will happen but then you never know  so yeah wait and see i guess , but it would be to god damn funny if they somehow pulled a Piccolo and then you see Madara going like    .   .

I think I want it to be a dud. I will laugh so much.

[FireFox]

I think I want it to be a dud. I will laugh so much.

LOL yeah the same , but what happens after that ? I don't think he will waste any time blasting them of all of them  they are pretty much screwed after that lol .

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

And to this post -which I find confusing- I must ask: What's your point?

My point is that you can't really hope for Sakura to implement something new to the Byakugou when...

1-She barely unlocked it during this war

Her training as whole, she was stronger than Naruto without the byakugou and wiht the hindrance of having to store chakra on her forehead at the begining of the shippuuden.
 

2-Her fellow teammates took quite a long time to apply something new to the techniques learned from someone else.

Sakura was in constant training however we're not comparing Sakura to her teammates directly we are comparing Sakura and Tsunade, Naruto and Sasuke was only to point out how it was shown that their surpassed their teachers, but with Sakura we only have a comment and Sakura facing weaker opponents than Tsunade, Juubi's minions vs Edo Madara.

The one who started brining Sasuke and Naruto and comparing with Sakura was James with his straw man tactic.
 

and 3-She doesn't have access to the unconventional training methods that her teammates have.

THe point is that, she wont surpass neither Naruto or Sasuke neither caught up with them in terms of power because it's impossible unless Kishi asspulls which is what a hope for.
But however the motto is the current generation surpassing the previous one, Sakura hasnt show to surpass Tsunade because she literally used the same powers she had.
And to make things worse i can point out when Shikamaru was going to die, Sakura and Naruto were struggling to heal him, then Tsunade came and used her magic touch.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 17 May 2014 - 01:49 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

LOL yeah the same , but what happens after that ? I don't think he will waste any time blasting them of all of them  they are pretty much screwed after that lol .

I just picture that same face he had when Hashirama told him that he will face him later back in 631. He will just look so lost. He probably go insane and just start killing everyone, probably telling Spiral Zetsu to kill them rather than weaken them. But again, I don't think that would happen. It would be hilarious.

[MoonDrop04]

For the last couple days I have been on tumbler searching anything NS related for some fun X) and all I've been mostly seeing is just Sakura Hate, Pairing wars over bullying and other anti-NS stuff :(...........until I saw this all of a sudden...

All I gotta say about that is for some reason I feel really good about this summer for some reason >:3 lol

Attached Files

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[Nic]

I know quite a few SS shippers who dropped their pairing so I'm not surprised that some people who ship NH that aren't invested as much in SS would see the pairing as something wrong.

[Shadow Wolf]

And when have I discussed in my points that I want her to be stronger than Naruto and Sasuke anyway? The reasons why I have been posting are:

1-To say that comparing Sakura with her teammates is unfair.
2-To say that it is also unfair to expect her to put something new to the Byakugou when she just learned it (which is a point in reply to Nate's question about him/her wanting Sakura to improve the Byakugou -and btw Nate, I also wish for improvement. I'm only stating that I may need a reasonable explanation as to how she improved it considering that normally people take a while to improve a jutsu-).
3-And to say that, even though Kishi hasn't handled Sakura perfectly (which may be subject to debate considering how many people identify themselves with her), she has achieved many feats for a normal girl. And even after all of this, this manga isn't over, so I'm expectingmore of her but at the moment I'm left with hypothetical scenarios because everyone is about to get thrown into a global illusion technique.

So let's go back to square one: Sakura surpassing Tsunade. Again, I ask you: what can she do now to show that she has surpased Tsunade? Again, I'm looking forward to next chapter and hopefully Kishi might bring back Sakura's ability to identify and get out of a Genjutsu, but I still want to ask the question: considering the scenario that we're in right now (flying Madara, Invisible Limbo clones and a worldwide genjutsu), how would you write a logical scene showing Sakura surpassing Tsunade?

[FireFox]

I just picture that same face he had when Hashirama told him that he will face him later back in 631. He will just look so lost. He probably go insane and just start killing everyone, probably telling Spiral Zetsu to kill them rather than weaken them. But again, I don't think that would happen. It would be hilarious.

MADARA: KILL THEM KILL THEM ALL!!! HASHIRAMA BOOB : DON'T DO IT MADARA FOR THE SAKE OF OUR LOVE  LOL that made my day , but yeah i agree it ain't happening but god damn i so much want to . 

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 17 May 2014 - 02:35 PM.

[Nate River]

Well then, Nate, all I have to say is that according to all the logic that you put down to the table; All the reasons that both you and Dark place down to show case why you think Sakura is so bad;

I do not think she is bad. I did not say she was. I did not imply it.
 
 

is not because she is a bad character, but is really a case of you only seeing what you want to believe.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Hell, in criticizing me you STILL don't address my point.

 
 

hat everything you criticize is not a matter of objectivity, but rather because nothing ever lives up your your standards of how you want the story to go and in that case nothing will ever be good to you. This isn't even just what happened in this chapter, but everything that has happened ever since this war started.

Objectivity? I can't say I care about that when it comes to reading the story. In fact, I think the fandom's collective obsession regarding bias is moronic. I am reading a manga in a pairing forum. I expect bias. I'm not a concerted effort to be objective when it comes to the story. I am writing what I feel about the chapter. If it's biased, I don't give damn.

There are places it matters I a work hard to do so when it does. Reading Naruto isn't one of them. And don't you dare try to twist this into me commenting on modding the forum, because I know you will. Regardless of your opinion of what I do, I do make the effort there. I am only referring to the story.
 
 

No offense, but how can I really take your judgement as credible when every single time there is a discussion there is always one more thing you feel upset with?

You seem to be under the misunderstanding that I care if you see my judgment as credible. If you don't, fine. I really don't care.
 
 

I am not trying to flame or bash, but truth be told I cannot take yours or Dark's posts as credible anymore because they all have the same subject matter. "It's not what I wanted or expected, so it must be bad.

You insulted both me and darkrest. So, saying you weren't trying to flame rings hallow to me.

I didn't say it was bad. I said three times now, that I am in wait and see mode.
 
 

If I take both yours and Darks way of reasoning and apply to the manga entirely, then Sakura is the ONLY character that is actually perfectly written, flaws and all. Her core character is a growing process and she has great transition. There is always something to talk about and always a struggle within herself that really defines a human being. She is more human and has more characteristics than every other character in this entire series.

I think her character is largely well-written. I have said so before. I have also said I want sustained and meaningful involvement and that it's a shame he has been unable to keep her consistently involved in the core conflict. It is because she is well written that I wanted her to have a larger presence than she has. However, unless he does something more (which I think he might--just saying it again like I did before) then the way he showed surpassing is a weak way a writing.

Sakura has never been asspulled into getting awesome powers.

Didn't say she had. I don't recall ever saying anything about her obtaining the seal in any forum. I don't have an issue with her having it.
 
 

The Byakugou seal comes close, but it still has a good explanation that keeps it from being a pure asspull. This is contrary to Naruto and Sasuke's powers where they just gain strength and power all because they are a reincarnation. Something you have expressed great detest for. She never once was excused of her actions and Kishimoto never had her point the blame on someone else. When someone told her that it was her fault, she rightfully took the blame and tried to make it better. She failed, but at the same time she didn't. She made mistakes, but she never said those mistakes should be ignored or forgotten and no one here has ever tried to hand wave or excuse.

I don't understand the point of any of this. It does not address anything I said.
 
 

This is unlike Naruto, or Sasuke, or even Hinata where the fans had to try and defend why their actions were justified instead of explaining why they did what they did. She is the only one who actually struggled with her own thoughts on whether or not something was the right or wrong action. A true human aspect that plagues real people in real life. She gets criticized and poked at by people of other fandoms and even here and yet she still manages to surpass everything people claimed she would be.

Again. How does this address anything I said?
 
 

No, she is not as strong as Naruto and Sasuke, but then again she surpassed everything that was thrown at her and she did it all with people criticizing her. Even you have to admit that the things she has done sometimes came at you with a surprise. Meanwhile, Naruto and Sasuke fail in even their own goals time and time again. Naruto who hasn't even once reached Sasuke since part two at all, and Sasuke who chickens out on all his plans and changes his mind faster than Two-Face. Hell, Two-Face actually went with some of his plans he wanted to do.

I never compared their strength's nor set out to do so. I said that you can look at what they have done and see that they have surpassed their mentors. I don't need a character telling me as happened in this chapter with Sakura. She hasn't done anything I don't think Tsunade couldn't do. This says nothing about how I see her strength vis-a-vis Naruto or Sasuke. It relates to how the author demonstrated that point.
 
 

You want to say that Sakura is so weak? I think Sakura is the strongest character in the show because she has never once wavered and learned from all her mistakes. I am proud of her. I had no expectations for her ever since the confession and every time I am proven wrong. Thank god I am proven wrong. I am happy I am proven wrong.

No, I don't want to call her weak and I never did. Are you even reading my post? You keep talking about things I never said and trying to counter arguments I am not making.

If you had no expectations regarding a major character at that point then Kishimoto utterly failed in his presentation of her.
 
 

That's the problem with the fandom today. It's always how THEY want the story to be written. How THEY wanted the story to play out. Sakura's character is the most amazing out of every other character in the show and she did it all despite everything that goes on. I am sorry you don't agree with me. I am sorry you don't like Sakura. I am sorry you hate this manga with every chapter that comes out. You can lie to yourselves that that is not the case, but I can read every post you make and it is pretty evident.

I shall continue to do so. In fact, this morning I told myself I was Superman and jumped off my house. The paramedics told me I shouldn't lie to myself like that, but then I told them you green lit me doing so. They looked unhappy.

The problem with the fandom today is self-righteous individuals trying to dictate to others the proper terms of being a fan. You wail against the criticism of Sakura and the manga, but every time Sasuke so much as blows a fart you whine about it. It's hard not to read your behavior as anything but your attempt to define the appropriate terms of criticism and commentary. Whether it's intentional or not, this what you do. You behave as if you never complain.

When did I say I don't like Sakura? Quit putting words in my mouth. Just because I don't see her the same way you do, doesn't mean I hate her.

The apostate bit was a jab at just that kind of behavior. I didn't provide proper worship, so people are trying to burn me at the stake.

Nothing against Darkrest, but he and I are not even arguing the same point. Why do you keep behaving as if we are?
 
 

Again. I am not trying to bash you or Dark for what you believe in. I am not trying to say that you should just believe what everyone else believes in. I am just saying that maybe the problems that you face with this manga are not because of bad writing, but because you didn't get what you wanted out of it. Everytime I confront you with these inconsistencies or illogical reasoning or some other inconsistencies in your logic, I find that you guys backpedal or try to reassess that the views you speak of are misinterpreted. I caught you guys sometimes say one thing and then say something else entirely or try to word play the reasoning behind into being non-applicable.

Yes, you are. You insulted us directly and now are all but saying we are the problems with the fandom. Just because you decline to outright say it, doesn't mean I can't read between the lines. You didn't throw that point at me just for the hell of it.

And the logical inconsistencies? Are you kidding? You STILL haven't addressed what I said in my original post. I have back peddled on nothing. You don't get to impute to me a bunch of things I never said and then claim it's back peddling when I don't stand behind the words I never said. This is horsekitten and totally dishonest.

I'm not trying to word play. I have said the same damn thing three times in this tread.
 
 

Not only that, but when I point it out sometimes I get told I am flaming or bashing or hurting your feelings in some sort of way because I am apparently not "respecting your opinion." If I didn't respect your opinion, I wouldn't even bother replying, but maybe I shouldn't. Maybe I should just say here and now that the "Agree to Disagree" will forever be something between us three. I can write for days and posts on end about every detail, every fragment, and just crush everything with long posts that you probably don't want to spend reading.

I accused you of insulting me, which you did before you edited your post. And what the kitten is up with the scare quotes? I'm not asking you to respect my opinion. I made that post because you insulted me and I felt like standing up for myself, especially because you seem hell bent on not addressing my point.

It's galling to watch you sit here and pretend you didn't do that.
 
 

To me, Sakura is the most well defined character out of every character in this entire series. Every step she takes is development and never once has she backpedaled in what she believed. She becomes conflicted sometimes, but that is part of her character that is the most interesting. Sakura has reason for what she believes in which is more than what Naruto and Sasuke can say when their belief system is more or less based on "Because I do" mentality. They even have times where the logic goes against them on screen and they still believe what they believe in is correct.

That's fine. This has nothing to do with what I said.
 
 

Her powers were all effort and training. She worked for it and continues to work for it to this day. You may not like that she is not as powerful as Naruto and Sasuke or Madara, but when you have character that got so much power boost for nothing, how can anyone keep up? You want to talk about bad writing? There it is. It's not Sakura and I think deep down you really know this.

I didn't address any of this. And this is what I mean....I never said I didn't like that she wasn't as powerful as those. Yeah, and I criticized Naruto and Sasuke's power boost, especially on the grounds that it wasn't related to hard work right after the author defined Naruto that way.
 
 

As I said, this is NOT bashing. This is more like constructive criticism. Then again, even people take that as bashing because they hate being criticized at all. Not the first I have seen, but certainly won't be the last. I just want to say this because I want to have debates with you guys and discuss things. I see you both as intelligent people, but you have this stubbornness to you and sometimes even come off as snobbish and smug. You have no clue what happens behind the scenes of the forum, but I do. I hear it almost everyday from both active members now and former members then.

Label it what you like. It is insulting, regardless.
 
 

The sad part is, I am no better than you. Hell, even my own prejudiced against Sasuke has lead me down paths thinking that Sasuke was no more than a terrible written sub-plot trying to sound important. At times I even was wrong and I have viewed things differently. I still hate Sasuke and all that he is, but truth be told some things do make sense with him and somethings were supposed to be that way on purpose to push a plot point in that not everyone is going to think as logically as others. It happens. Sasuke is that chaos and he's meant to be erratic.

Yeah, you do. So where the hell do you get off lecturing me about the problems of the fandom?
 
 

So, Nate....Dark. If you want to see this manga so negatively, that is fine. If you want to hold everything against Sakura and hand wave everyone else, that is fine too. I can't stop you and nothing I can say or do will change it. All I will say is it is going to be hard from here on out to really take you guys seriously because I don't know anymore if what you say is because of merit and actual point or is just a product of your own disappointments and failing to meet your expectations.

This is bullsh**. I am very hard on Naruto and Sasuke. Did we not establish twice that I didn't like their power ups? In fact, how I can be do thing if, as you suggest, I complain about everything?

 
 

I guess in conclusion, and pretty long winded XD, I can say that I agree to disagree.

No way. You don't get to say the things you did and then say agree to disagree.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

And when have I discussed in my points that I want her to be stronger than Naruto and Sasuke anyway? The reasons why I have been posting are:

I used it as examples.
 

1-To say that comparing Sakura with her teammates is unfair.

I'm not comparing her to her teammates, just used them as examples, i can use Shikamaru as an example aswell.
 

2-To say that it is also unfair to expect her to put something new to the Byakugou when she just learned it (which is a point in reply to Nate's question about him/her wanting Sakura to improve the Byakugou -and btw Nate, I also wish for improvement. I'm only stating that I may need a reasonable explanation as to how she improved it considering that normally people take a while to improve a jutsu-).

Sorry.
I think it's irrelevant the byakugou being new or not because she still has the same flaws.
If she had speed or more jutsus she could've surpass Tsunade.
 

3-And to say that, even though Kishi hasn't handled Sakura perfectly (which may be subject to debate considering how many people identify themselves with her), she has achieved many feats for a normal girl. And even after all of this, this manga isn't over, so I'm expectingmore of her but at the moment I'm left with hypothetical scenarios because everyone is about to get thrown into a global illusion technique.

He hasnt handled because he always forgets about her, we see Naruto, Sasuke and even Shikamaru surpassing their teachers, showing it to us, but with Sakura we have a comment and nothing else more, putting her to use the same jutsu and a few panels with Tsunade being superior like that magic touch save on Shikamaru.
 

So let's go back to square one: Sakura surpassing Tsunade. Again, I ask you: what can she do now to show that she has surpased Tsunade? Again, I'm looking forward to next chapter and hopefully Kishi might bring back Sakura's ability to identify and get out of a Genjutsu, but I still want to ask the question: considering the scenario that we're in right now (flying Madara, Invisible Limbo clones and a worldwide genjutsu), how would you write a logical scene showing Sakura surpassing Tsunade?

Sakura just need a single S+ jutsu to surpass her because she's pretty much equal and has the same flaws as Tsunade.
She lacks.

- Long Ranged Attack.
- Speed.
- Tactical Options (Using the very old tactic of using your own body as distraction to land a blow sounds stupid to me, i know she can heal those wounds with the byakugou but it's ridiculous, it's like when Jiraiya told Naruto he would be a fool if he has to allow the opponent to hurt his hand all the time).
The argument stand s with Sakura, i dont see why the reason she has to be like Tsunade letting the opponent pierce her body like it's nothing.

Sakura will completely surpass Tsunade if she gets a powerup and doesnt need to use this stupid tactic anymore.
When i look at the byakugou it's what i see with it, she allows herself to be used as a meat shield and nothing more, or even letting the opponent pierce her to get close enough to punch him.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 17 May 2014 - 03:04 PM.

[Mistraal]

 

Poor baby, just look at that sad face. This girl just can't seem to catch an emotional break. Why the kitten does Kishi keep doing this to her?!

 

...GGGGRRAAWWWRRRR

SASUKE IS SUCH A DAMNED WANKER. BUT NARUTO IS EVEN MORE OF A WANKER FOR NOT CALLING HIM OUT ON THIS BS.

Like seriously what is Sakura supposed to do? Go home and bake fcking PIES so Sasuke doesn't arbitrarily KILL her in a fight? She didn't even get in the way! He just straight was gonna use her as a tactic to try and strike at Madara.

"Oh, he doesn't think I won't slash at him through my teammate so let me do that!" Friggin SMH...



Like for real this was my reaction. Sasuke is just....this action taken by him is so...utterly...POINTLESS. Why? Explain this to me Kishi.

EDIT: I hate Sasuke so much right now I wanna burn my Sig. Like srsly this kid is a bag of kittens. Ok, I'm done.

Edited by Mistraal, 17 May 2014 - 03:12 PM.

[Shadow Wolf]

So in the end, we both agree that she could use improvement and that at the moment she is on part with Tsunade and that Kishi hasn't been the best at handling her. Why the hell are we debating then? XD

Anyway, I understand your point or at least I think I do, which is precisely why I say that I'm hoping to see more in the following chapters. I think if anything, like I said, right now I can't picture a logical scenario in which we can see her acquiring a new powerup at the moment. But who knows, maybe Kishi has something in store or at least I hope so. And finally, like I have mentioned earlier, I'm happy that she can use Byakugou offensively but I'm expecting more.

EDIT: @Mistraal: Shut up and take my like.

J/K, but I must admit that I laughed at your post, so thank you very much for making my day. :-D

Edited by Shadow Wolf, 17 May 2014 - 03:33 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

So in the end, we both agree that she could use improvement and that at the moment she is on part with Tsunade and that Kishi hasn't been the best at handlong her. Why the hell are we debating then? XD

Anyway, I understand your point or at least I think I do, which is precisely why I say that I'm hoping to see more in the following chapters. I think if anything, like I said, right now I can't picture a logical scenario in which we can see her acquiring a new powerup at the moment. But who knows, maybe Kishi has something in store or at least I hope so. And finally, like I have mentioned earlier, I'm happy that she can use Byakugou offensively but I'm expecting more.

Agree, me too i hope she stops using that tactic over and over, she would indeed surpass Tsunade if she finds a way to not use that, i mean she's not from senju blood and the colateral effects will be greater on her.

manga kiwaguro_no_brynhildr
Wahh! my feelings...

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 17 May 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[NaruSakuishere]

...GGGGRRAAWWWRRRR

SASUKE IS SUCH A DAMNED WANKER. BUT NARUTO IS EVEN MORE OF A WANKER FOR NOT CALLING HIM OUT ON THIS BS.
 

In Naruto's defense. He has already tried calling him out, but sasuke says that he's an ex-member of team 7 and doesn't care. He just isn't the same person they used to know.

Edited by NaruSakuishere, 17 May 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[Mistraal]

In Naruto's defense. He has already tried calling him out, but sasuke says that he's an ex-member of team 7 and doesn't care. He just isn't the same person they used to know.

What really gets me is....Sakura is damn useful. The majority of the alliance would be laying dead right now if it wasn't her remote healing via Katsuyu pancaking everywhere. And he's like:

 

"NAH SCREW THAT SWORD TIEM."

 

It's just....an illogical, bad move on his part. Sasuke is supposed to be some great strategist and that was a bad BAD move.

Edited by Mistraal, 17 May 2014 - 04:17 PM.