3406 replies to this topic

[Codus N]

Yes, I know they're Westerners. However, she's STILL not to make the series marketable with just her being on an item such as a poster. You're talking about like she's going to be as now but not relying on the fact that this moment for her right now, DOES NOT do jack squat for her to gain that sort of recognition, unlike the others I mentioned: Iruka, Minato, Itachi and Lee. She's not even considered as a staple character. And it's too late for her to gain it when the series is almost done.

Everyone in the West wants her to gain this popularity just because she has the boobs and the moe factor. However, its too late for that. She should had gotten that when her confession was up, but it didn't change the difference. As I said before, this fandom tends to put her on a very high and indestructible pedestal that she does not deserves. This chapter gave her development NOT recognition to be on the next cover on WSJ. Y'all need to stop treating her like she needs it because of this chapter, when in reality, she's hardly not important to the plot AND series.

*pinches bridge of the nose*

Ok, to be honest, I am getting tired of this. And I feel like I've spent all of my energy debating in this thread. And I don't mean it in an aggravating way. It's been fun, but exhausting as well . So this will be my last post on this topic for now.

What you've been missing the point is that what I was talking about is how NH, or Hinata for that matter, (possibly) affects the ratings of the manga. Every week, there is a weekly questionnaire for readers to rate the mangas they're reading. And if a chapter where Hinata gets the spotlight gets high ratings from the Japanese, it wouldn't be implausible for the editors to see a connection and realize Hinata brings in higher ratings for the manga. The aim of the editors of Kishi is to get NARUTO as high as possible in the polls. If NH is the means to do that, then I won't blame them for the decision.

Also, JUMP does not churn out those advertisements. The companies that make them do. JUMP rarely has anything to do with other media pertaining their mangas. The ads are completely independent of them. JUMP could easily want Hinata to get more exposure, but maybe the adverts think otherwise or vice versa.

My basic point is that, it doesn't matter if if Hinata has more media exposure or not. It's the manga ratings that the editors care about. If NH brings in more profits and higher ratings for them and the manga, from a marketing standpoint, NH must be canon (in the editors' POV). But that said, of course Hinata is nowhere near Minato's level of badassness and awesomeness. (or Kushina's for that matter )

I think you are misunderstanding me or you need to re-think when you said "Hinata is marketing value." Let's read what you posted.



These two statements imply that what you are saying is that all the marketing and editors care about is money value. If Hinata was that popular and they want that group to buy their products for said money, then they would cave to put her in more advertising space. IF they just wanted that money roll an not care about anything else.

I don't say this a lot, but this is one subject I am good at and it is a subject I am studying to make a career out of it.

To say that Hinata has more marketable value has not been shown in practice that she really is. As an advertiser you are trained to go after the trends and the popular stuff. Don't really need to know why it is popular so long as it is and if Hinata is more popular now, then it's not going to last. At least until something else comes along. And in reality terms, from what I have seen, there has been more products with Minato's face on it than I have seen with Hinata's face on it in all shapes or forms.

Hinata may be more popular than Sakura, but she is not THE most popular. Which is why she doesn't have that real marketable value unlike say Sasuke, Naruto, and Kakashi. Even villains get more top billing 9/10 times.

As I said, not to say that Hinata is not popular or that you are wrong, but from a marketing stand point you wouldn't know it just from the advertisements you see.

Also, you have to question if Hinata is more popular, why is Sakura depicted more often? Cause she is a main character. I know I know, but just because we don't see it anymore doesn't mean she isn't treated like one by the marketers. Hinata may be more popular (at the moment,) but Sakura always seems to get higher billing than Hinata every time.

It's a good question to ask on why advertisers would do something if something else is popular. In a real aspect, marketers are supposed to play a neutrality regardless of their personal opinions.

And to joke, it's not like I could just take a Naruto game, slap Hinata's face on it and it will sell millions over night. (Though some advertisers like to believe just slapping a name or image of a product on another product means it will sell well.) Which might be worth testing out. Make several pairs of boxers and have 10 different styles on it. One with just Hinata on it and see which one attracts more attention after about a week.



Got it, we are thinking along the same wavelength.

So basically, to shorten what I have said, Hinata is more popular than Sakura now, but compared to every other character she is still not good enough to stand alone to "sell." If you know what I mean of course.

I understand where you're coming from, from a profit standpoint. But note that I also said the ratings. Keep in mind that JUMP mangas have a very stiff competition, so Naruto's profits might not even matter much to the magazine as a whole. What I'm saying is that JUMP mangas already bring in huge amount of profits if you combine all the mangas' profits currently in the magazine.

They might not even feel Hinata requires more media exposure as she's already popular on her own. So, that leaves one thing: the ratings.

As Kishi's editors' job is to make the rating of the manga as high as possible, that means they're probably more focusing on the ratings. Sure, it would be great if it brings in more profits, but to them, or some, the ratings might be slightly higher than the profits on priority. And, after all, higher ratings will lead to more profit, no?? that's why I said Hinata doesn't necessarily have to be given more media exposure. Who knows, Sakura appearing in adverts more than her might even be the editors' effort to keep her relevant.

P.S.: what are you studying, if you don't mind me asking??

[AzureWaters]

This is like I previously said. If Kishi decided to go with NH, there would be little to no angst concerning his feelings for Sakura. =/ In this case there's no mention at all.

[Codus N]

I heard this rumor that the Mayan calander didn't end on December 21, but the day Kishimoto resolves his pairing wars. It'll be the end of the world.

Welp, a little too late for that, don'tcha think?? although I suppose last chapter could've been meant for that...

Still not finished reading all the comments, still at page 38 But I want to add comment.



Of course, now Naruto noticed Hinata, is the same as what one of the members here had said, it is almost similar to the scene LeeSaku and SasuSaku, when Sakura appreciated Lee for making her feel more powerful as well as Sasuke appreciated Sakura for always cared for him. With, “Thanks you (for being here/always here/being by my side).”

Some members here (just like me) must be an author right?

Just because I know the ending to the story that I made is NaruSaku, does not mean I'm going to throw away a scene that included SasuSaku, NaruHina, or any side pairing in the story I made. Well, I love suspense after all. But I will not abandon all the development I’ve made from the first time I build the story.

My friend said that I’m such a troller

Codus, I have a friend. She’s a novelist. I’m one of her beta-reader. She told me anything about the editor. Editor does have the right to criticize a plothole or inconsistency in a story. Editor corrected it. But in the end, the decision remains in the owner's story. If an editor from the initial agreement did not agree with the plan of the author, the story will not be published from beginning.

I'm sure, Kishimoto must have the ending of this story when he first made the story. Plot can be constructed when he was writing the story, but usually, ending, main conflict, opening, everything crucial, is determined from the beginning. I don’t know about Kishimoto’s plan. Maybe it’s one of his plan, to build the suspense, or maybe he’s really throw away all the things he has been build between Naruto and Sakura. I’m just trying to say that if I was Kishimoto, based on the bonds of NS, I will make NS canon in the end :3

About RTN, we’ll gonna see it in April, rite? Maybe at that time, all the ‘NH-thingssss’ already done.

Ps: sorry for bad english

Btw, as long as I remember, there’s more HarryHermione fans out there than HarryGinny fans, right? I heard that some fans got upset with JK Rowling (actually me too), but, what I want to say is, IMO, no one could change author’s plan. Well, I noticed that Hermione and Ron are made for each other from the 1st book, even there’s soooo many DracoMione fans out there

*busyet dah, iki dah jam 12 malem aq ngejawab... lol

Anyways....

Yeah, I know that's what an editor does, but ever since I read Bakuman, it makes me believe the way the editors work at JUMP could very well affect the outcome of a manga's ending. Every publishing company have different ways of working. JUMP has their own as well. This is how powerful the editors are at JUMP. So, I'm still open to the very possibility of this being the case.

If there is any place where he messed up by allowing others to control direction (i.e. supposedly his editors) it was in allowing Team Not Seven to exist.

Further proof how the editor is to blame.

[Phantom_999]

You know what is really funny?

Noone has said anything like:

"This was just a platonic sibling moment. Naruto sees Hinata as a friend."

or

"Hinata slapped Naruto? Wow, she is so abusive."

Self justification for Sakura hate. I ain't stooping to that level. But yeah it's true though.

... I can't believe I didn't notice that. Wow.

It doesn't matter cause we never use that as an excuse for anti-NH

Very Untrue. Where do I see Hinata as a marketable value now? I don't see any clothing merchandise, toys, figurines and/or any other stuff about her up in center in the past up until now. The only thing is marketable is her "assets". Plus, I hardly doubt she's highly popular now just because of the recent poll. Yes, the editors can consider the international fans' opinion, but what does that stop Kishimoto to suddenly make Hinata appear more often when we're almost done with the series? He has to get her long, overdue development done, as so as the rest of Loads and Loads of characters in the list.

Exactly Kage Derock!! I have said Already this is to develop her character often myself.

Edited by Phantom_999, 28 December 2012 - 05:19 PM.

[Derock]

*pinches bridge of the nose*

Ok, to be honest, I am getting tired of this. And I feel like I've spent all of my energy debating in this thread. And I don't mean it in an aggravating way. It's been fun, but exhausting as well . So this will be my last post on this topic for now.

What you've been missing the point is that what I was talking about is how NH, or Hinata for that matter, (possibly) affects the ratings of the manga. Every week, there is a weekly questionnaire for readers to rate the mangas they're reading. And if a chapter where Hinata gets the spotlight gets high ratings from the Japanese, it wouldn't be implausible for the editors to see a connection and realize Hinata brings in higher ratings for the manga. The aim of the editors of Kishi is to get NARUTO as high as possible in the polls. If NH is the means to do that, then I won't blame them for the decision.

Also, JUMP does not churn out those advertisements. The companies that make them do. JUMP rarely has anything to do with other media pertaining their mangas. The ads are completely independent of them. JUMP could easily want Hinata to get more exposure, but maybe the adverts think otherwise or vice versa.

My basic point is that, it doesn't matter if if Hinata has more media exposure or not. It's the manga ratings that the editors care about. If NH brings in more profits and higher ratings for them and the manga, from a marketing standpoint, NH must be canon (in the editors' POV). But that said, of course Hinata is nowhere near Minato's level of badassness and awesomeness. (or Kushina's for that matter )

No, I saw that point. However, even though Hinata got the spotlight, she isn't going to get that much ratings, just of being what she does best: being a support character with only words of true encouragement. She has to do more than that as I said before. And you know by now, even though Kishimoto right now knows his series is popular worldwide, I hardly doubt his editors will suddenly say "Oh, let's make Hinata more prominent now." Especially when he's almost done. It's too little, too late. And did we mentioned that he's focusing on his audience in his homeland? Also, while Hinata might get more exposure, it doesn't mean that NaruHina will suddenly get popular over there. It still won't get high enough towards KakaIru is at (actually, it possibly won't be as high as NaruSasu), because the Japanese knows that Hinata will never get Naruto romantically. They might be still ship NejiHina, even though Neji is now KIA.

Now for manga ratings, you should know by now One Piece over there will always be #1! That manga always get its ratings and rankings high as possible. Oda is in the money. The only time Naruto gain #1 is whenever OP is still in hiatus, or its manga volume still on the works.

Where did you hear that.

Look up Sakura's reception section on her Wikipedia page. Not the Naruto wiki, the official one.

[Heaven on Earth]

Welp, a little too late for that, don'tcha think?? although I suppose last chapter could've been meant for that...



*busyet dah, iki dah jam 12 malem aq ngejawab... lol

Anyways....

Yeah, I know that's what an editor does, but ever since I read Bakuman, it makes me believe the way the editors work at JUMP could very well affect the outcome of a manga's ending. Every publishing company have different ways of working. JUMP has their own as well. This is how powerful the editors are at JUMP. So, I'm still open to the very possibility of this being the case.




Further proof how the editor is to blame.

It's midnight, ne? It's raining outside, dan kita masih belum tidurrrrrrrr There's so much page of this thread I want to read *nangis* lol
Well, I just hope ............. I can kick the editors if they really forced Kishimoto to do something like that.

[Codus N]

No, I saw that point. However, even though Hinata got the spotlight, she isn't going to get that much ratings, just of being what she does best: being a support character with only words of true encouragement. She has to do more than that as I said before. And you know by now, even though Kishimoto right now knows his series is popular worldwide, I hardly doubt his editors will suddenly say "Oh, let's make Hinata more prominent now." Especially when he's almost done. It's too little, too late. And did we mentioned that he's focusing on his audience in his homeland? Also, while Hinata might get more exposure, it doesn't mean that NaruHina will suddenly get popular over there. It still won't get high enough towards KakaIru is at (actually, it possibly won't be as high as NaruSasu), because the Japanese knows that Hinata will ever get Naruto romantically. They might be still ship NejiHina, even though Neji is now KIA.

Now for manga ratings, you should know by now One Piece over there will always be #1! That manga always get its ratings and rankings high as possible. Oda is in the money. The only time Naruto gain #1 is whenever OP is still in hiatus, or its manga volume still on the works.

Would you mind waiting for my reply tomorrow?? it's midnight over here, and I seriously need to get some shuteye, otherwise, if I start debating with you again, I might end up saying things I didn't mean to.

@HOE: km libur besok ya?? untung deh.... klo gak lo bkl dimarahi bos masuk telat gara2 hangout di sini..... oya, km pergi ke mana2 gak taon baru??

Edited by Codus N, 28 December 2012 - 05:28 PM.

[Derock]

Would you mind waiting for my reply tomorrow?? it's midnight over here, and I seriously need to get some shuteye, otherwise, if I start debating with you again, I might end up saying things I didn't mean to.

Sure no problem. Actually, my last post was around 4-5 AM EST and I just got up around almost 12 PM.

[dl316bh]

Ahh... s***. I guess I'll have to get serious with my posts. SHE CANNAE TAKE NA'H MO'H CAP'N! THE TEARS, THEY BE OVERFLOWIN' TH' SHIP!

You know what is really funny?

Noone has said anything like:

"This was just a platonic sibling moment. Naruto sees Hinata as a friend."

or

"Hinata slapped Naruto? Wow, she is so abusive."

WHAT? AND RUIN ALL THIS DELICIOUS ANGST?

Of course Hinata slapping Naruto isn't abusive! It only is when Sakura does it. Didn't you get the memo?

Nice gif

Daniel Bryan: Forever summing up the feelings of the NaruSaku fanbase in one word

If that ain't a hint of Naruto reciprocating her feelings, then I dunno what is.

oh i dunno maybe liek

"Hey, so I noticed you've been backing me all this time. I'd just like to say thanks. Appreciate it."

Dude values everyone who has been sticking with him all this time. How many sappy moments illustrating that have we had in the past? Like, ten billion? If there's one thing this series has hammered home to the point of nausea, it's Naruto valuing his friends.

If Hinata's confession gave her a poll increase, that would still give the editors the belief that Hinata is more marketable and help boost ratings of the manga.

I don't think editors mean s*** over there other than to correct mistakes. I don't think polls matter either. I saw someone discussing a harem manga once - Love Hina, I think it was - where loads of people hated the "heroine" for many of the same reasons folks ragged on Sakura and others rated higher in popularity polls, including the other love interest. The main female character got the guy, apparently. This is, seemingly, not an isolated phenomenon with polls, either.

You keep bringing up Bakumon - whatever the hell that is - but not every place has the exact same setup, from editorial on down. Maybe the editors for that one ARE draconian and have that kind of pull. But what I've heard makes it seem like that's a minority.

Besides, if polls and pairing s*** made a difference, SasuNaru would probably be canon by now; they love them some Naruto yaoi over there, I hear.

Seriously, there is no such s*** as "canon" until the manga is done and over with. These guys NEVER finish romantic subplots until the end. Everyones worried about NaruSaku, but frankly, it's not like we're going to know until the end of the manga, because that's when it will happen if it's going to. It's a trick to keep everyone in suspense until the end or keep people hooked. Also, these guys are NOT above throwing curveballs in shipping arcs. It keeps people glued to the book.

I see definetely a new kittenistorm from NH fandom.

Who cares what they think? For that matter, why do THEY care what WE think? The preoccupation with what the other fandom is doing is so... asinine. Does anybody REALLY think any of these "shipping wars" will matter when a manga finishes and a definitive answer on pairings is given? It's not like Kishi's watching the fandom going "Yes, yes, lay forth your arguments; someone convince me which pairing is right".

It's just debating with other fans, in the end; and while it all seems like a big deal at the time, it really isn't given that the fan wars have no impact. The only people who remember fan wars in regards to a work after they are done are the people who participated in them.

I am indifferent about the situation because of the utter bastardizing of the characters.

The characterization went down the toilet a long time ago. It's half of what drove me away. I'd strap in, because it's not going to suddenly get better.

NOW BACK TO YO REGULARLY SCHEDULED ANGST

Edited by dl316bh, 28 December 2012 - 06:04 PM.

[swagosaurus]

I want to see Sakura get chakra from Naruto, then punch the Jubi in it's ugly-ass face. Kishi better kittening do that.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

I don't think editors mean s*** over there other than to correct mistakes. I don't think polls matter either. I saw someone discussing a harem manga once - Love Hina, I think it was - where loads of people hated the "heroine" for many of the same reasons folks ragged on Sakura and others rated higher in popularity polls, including the other love interest. The main female character got the guy, apparently. This is, seemingly, not an isolated phenomenon with polls, either.

If it was Love Hina, Narusegawa (the main love interest) is much less tender and more vicious than Sakura ever was. That's why a lot of people disliked her, including me.

[dl316bh]

If it was Love Hina, Narusegawa (the main love interest) is much less tender and more vicious than Sakura ever was. That's why a lot of people disliked her, including me.

I have no clue. I just know what I've heard. People hated said main love interest; creator did what he wanted anyways.

Edited by dl316bh, 28 December 2012 - 06:07 PM.

[Nate River]

If it was Love Hina, Narusegawa (the main love interest) is much less tender and more vicious than Sakura ever was. That's why a lot of people disliked her, including me.

I didn't care for her either, but it's more old-fashioned disinterest than anything. I found the others more interesting. Simple as that, though I didn't know Mutsumi was more popular.

Though watching Motoko get excused for that behavior while Naru is thrashed is always interesting.

EDIT: dl, I more partial to Bender, but the quality of the Abandon ship vid is so awful.

[dl316bh]

dl, I more partial to Bender, but the quality of the Abandon ship vid is so awful.

Hence why I didn't use it again, like last time.

No clue why no one has uploaded a better quality version.

[Canadian_DJ]

Finally i caught up

[dl316bh]

Finally i caught up

You read all that?

You must be a masochist.

[T XD]

If it was Love Hina, Narusegawa (the main love interest) is much less tender and more vicious than Sakura ever was. That's why a lot of people disliked her, including me.

You should know that main female characters are tsundere in manga and anime. So, no surprise if she always beats the crap out of him.

Finally i caught up

*calling 911*

Edited by T XD, 28 December 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

You should know that main female characters are tsundere in manga and anime. So, no surprise if she always beats the crap out of him.

Yes, I know what a tsundere is, but Narusegawa and Motoko's attacks on Keitaro was just far too much and vicious. It felt more like they were attacking a monster demon rapist than their landlord, manager, and friend/love interest. Keitaro's almost Jesus-like with his patience and forgiveness of the two girls.


@Shriner-River, I somewhat excuse Motoko because it felt like she backed off on attacking Keitaro more than Narusegawa did. Then again, it's been awhile and I haven't read most of the later volumes, only bits and pieces.

Ehem...back to Naruto chapter 615.

[kidNinja]

I have also finally caught up and it seems that folks have finally calm down plus most of the NH trolls have been chased off for now at least. These next two weeks shouldn't be too rough hopefully but I'm sure we will get some more invaders.


Also, Kishi is one of the top mangakas in Japan, I'm pretty sure editors don't meddle too much in what he wants to do especially since he has made that clear on numerous occasions.

[kirabook]

I"m beginning to think that maybe everyone has thought too much of Naruto. Didn't Kishi say he was aiming this for middle schoolers? Maybe things like pairings and whatnot are supposed to be on the level of a middle schooler, in other words, completely unstable and most of the time, nonsense.