54216 replies to this topic

[Dkey]

I have gotten really sad over how we got a wonderful chapter today and there are fans leaping on anything to just try and bring down Sakura, acting like its her fault that so many died despite Obito being the SOB who attacked and drained their life. There were people actually dissapointed Sakura is viturally unharmed and angrier over Shikamaru depsite that how he is still kicking and Sakura (with assistance from Ino, and maybe even Tsunade who is almost there) can try to save him. I mean I know people freaked out and somehow blamed Neji's death on her which made no sense but Shikamaru has a few lifelines, he can still be saved. Oh and yes we all know how extreme some fans went with the "panel placement means something pairing wise" routine again, I mean some people thought there was a positive SS moment from Sasuke remaining speechless and Sakura saying I can feel his heart (depiste the fact that "His heart" is referring to Naruto not Sasuke, and some people thought she was speaking about Sasuke. Yet there is also the near end panel of Hinata just saying Naruto's name, seriously to make a ruckus over that?  

 

I even just said on another site how it was possible that Naruto would possibly confess to Sakura to have no more regrets dying knowing he at least had the chance to confess to her. This has been done so many times in life or death all or nothing fate of the world situationslike this which has been common so many times in media, movies, cartoon series, videogames, etc, that when everything is on the line and there is no certainty that the heroes will make it out, usually some people just clear everything near the end before the fatal moment of victory or doom comes. Yet a few NH fans leapt on me saying this and I had a funny chat with em:

 

NH fan: "Lol thats stupid naruto would confess to Hinata you mean or rather Hinata will tell Naruto."

 

Me: Actually you got that second one wrong, why would Hinata confess?

 

NH fan: Because she deserves to confess, she loves Naruto.

 

My reaction:   You realize she already confessed right?

 

NH fan: The pain event didn't count, she confessed for true love in the hopes of saving him and was prepared to die. It will be better here cause they are together.

 

Me: But thats the same idea of Naruto confessing to Sakura before its too late, I mean Hinata confessed basically under the same conditions knowing she could die, you should even be aware of this.

 

NH fan: Yes I am aware of it, but Hinata should confess again and get a better answer from Naruto.

 

Me: So you are asking for Hinata to get another I love you moment when they are about to be pummeled and impaled inwards or drained of their energy by a giant tree this time?

 

NH fan: What? No what makes you think that?

 

Me: Well you are asking for a devistating confession, Hinatas other big events involved some major tramua or pain inflicted on another.

 

NH fan: No thats not true, in fact tell me why Naruto should confess to Sakura?

 

Me: Gee I wonder, maybe it had to do with the fact he had the whole premise of that promise, the ideal of reuniting team 7, least accomplishing that in an obvious situation like this as Hinata was facing when she went into pain. Naruto's confession to Sakura would be like Hinatas from pain in generally a same baseline but with bigger set up, reason and plot relevance.

 

NH fan: Wait plot relvance? What are you talking about NS has no plot relevance.

 

Me: Tell me you are kidding, please tell me, you realize which 2 loves have been more central to the story right? NS and even SS.

 

NH fan: no thats dumb, SS has more than NS though.

 

Me: Then please, I'm waiting to see how much they expand on Hinata's pain event, isn't it funny how its been over 200 chapters and still no big answer when it could have been resolved much sooner? There wasn't even much expanded or revealed on Naruto's side of the hand holding from Neji, only the regret of him dying and simply thanking Hinata for pulling him out of his trumatic view.

 

NH fan: 615, thats all I have to say, love is there and you are pissed off from it.

 

Me: Funny I remember the meltdown of 631, you still hate Minato? Naruto still likes the idea of Sakura as a girlfriend last I checked. Mind explaining when we actually see Naruto's feelings for Hinata?

 

NH fan: You just can't see it, you're a blind NS fan. Besides Minato doesn't know Naruto and Naruto is free to choose his own girl, he doesnt need to listen to Kushina. and NS is a kushina Kushina its been proven.

 

Me: But Minato would have no idea who the heck Hinata even is. Not to mention Sakura is the only girl compared to Kushina canonically so far. Even then Naruto showed he still liked the idea of Sakura being his girlfriend and Kushina's foreshadow was hinted for a while now, even then all NH fans pre631 were on board the whole kushina aspect or somehow linked Minato and Hinata when nothing exists, I mean there is at least a connection for what we can say. Besides Naruto was in the process or had accomplished what Kushina said. Sakura=Kushina is just another foreshadow element, and fyi yes Naruto is like Kushina AND Minato, they are his parents, Minato has blundered a bit in front of Tobirama this fight. He is got a child/goofy side like Naruto and Kushina. Its that Minato side of Naruto by all logic that could work with Sakura kushinaness. So whats so hard about this reason of Naruto possibly confessing to Sakura before the tree fires off? He could at least clear his feelings and let her know before its too late.

 

The NH fan then left the active posting room.

 

Anyways thats what I mean, we get a terrible end of all things situation, the world is now on a countdown to disaster literally, 15 mins of the world left, and people may say a few final things before its too late. Naruto saying this to Sakura is a possibly now or obviously in the final fight against Sasuke (before the immediate start of the fight I would guess). How hard is this to process? The plot has changed a lot from just last year and stuff still remains on the table and allowing for NS to develop. Yet some people think its just another long line of impossiblities. Hey we ship what we like, they can ship what they like, not our problem whatever comes canon, Im always going to ship NS. Least NS has the best potential.

 

So he didn't bring one proof on the table. all he said was 615. and accused you of being blind.

There could have been more to say imo but frankly it wasn't the bother, but it baffles me that they don't see NS as relevant. Well hoping for another 631 moment so that they freak out even more.

 

 

But about the confession thing, it has some basis for Naruto to confess to Sakura but it feels a bit far fetched. Still wondering when Obito will reach the Rin part and how it ties in with Sakura.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I have one thing to say:

This next volume is end of the road. This is it. Whoever ends it, win them all.

[HauntedCake]

Has sakura ever given a reason as to why she feels so strongly for sasuke? when she says "i love you with all my heart" that is really strong to say that to sasuke who i believe she doesn't even know very well.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Has sakura ever given a reason as to why she feels so strongly for sasuke? when she says "i love you with all my heart" that is really strong to say that to sasuke who i believe she doesn't even know very well.

No. That's why Kishi said her love isn't that all true because it's young immature love. Why you think there's no legit background on SS? Because there is none. Not even her flashback before stabbing address anything. It's just something that she has to wake up to reality of false image. That's why she doesn't understand about her feelings for Naruto.

[sushi.]

There's not even a hint.

Personally I'm expecting more than a simple "I love you with all my heart". How and why? What did she see in him? Romance is not
that blunt.

With Naruto's love, we can see why and how he loves her because of the close perspective we have on him. We see what about her that makes his tender smile, blush etc.(if you want me to point it out, I will gladly). That says much more than three words, and we're not 'forced' to deal with the pairing. Even though I'm pleased that he admitted it all to Sai.

[Fairy Tail Fantard]

 

So he didn't bring one proof on the table. all he said was 615. and accused you of being blind.

There could have been more to say imo but frankly it wasn't the bother, but it baffles me that they don't see NS as relevant. Well hoping for another 631 moment so that they freak out even more.

 

 

But about the confession thing, it has some basis for Naruto to confess to Sakura but it feels a bit far fetched. Still wondering when Obito will reach the Rin part and how it ties in with Sakura.

That is exactly why I stay away from NH forums. You can slap them across the face with facts to your heart's content, but they'll still deny NS.

 

If I had to be blunt, I'd say the Naruto fandom is one of the more...I don't want to say dumb, but blind and delusional are too nice for a lot of fans I've seen.

[deviouslyChaotic]

That is exactly why I stay away from NH forums. You can slap them across the face with facts to your heart's content, but they'll still deny NS.

 

If I had to be blunt, I'd say the Naruto fandom is one of the more...I don't want to say dumb, but blind and delusional are too nice for a lot of fans I've seen.

It's the shipping goggles. Some fail to take them off to analyze or look at something from an objective perspective. The whole fandom seems that way because shipping is a HUGE part of the fandom and shipping gladly invites denial and delusion with open arms.

As insufferable as the shipping war is in this fandom, it still never fails to entertain me.

[Hiraishin]

It's the shipping goggles. Some fail to take them off to analyze or look at something from an objective perspective. The whole fandom seems that way because shipping is a HUGE part of the fandom and shipping gladly invites denial and delusion with open arms.

As insufferable as the shipping war is in this fandom, it still never fails to entertain me.

I just wanted to say that your sig is awesome. 

[DattebayoXShannaro]

Sakura

For Sakura's fan:

I have written a LAP and wants to share it with you guys. Enjoy.

Ok, well if what I heard is true, I don't understand the problem about Sakura. In fact, this is a good thing for this chapter. I'll bet many would ignore this post, but feel free to do so, but if you're in need to understand her or just want to read for good support, then I thank you for your time.

Well, I don't know how is this Sakura's fault or anything bad around her. First of all, you should be happy that she's getting the screen time she's gotten and I know why, but let's go down the line. First of all, she got hurt from something, so she just got recovered from this. Here's the thing. Sakura just got Saving Private Ryan intro on. What I mean is that she got knocked, watch all of them getting killed left and right, then recover and the war continues. Simple as that. It's like getting hit a big blast and wake up realizing that one of your friend got killed/severely injured. You can't blame Sakura because of this. This is war and getting caught by the God Tree is like many going forward only to get shot by turrets. So now she got back up and wonder what's the current situation and heard Shikamaru got caught. Think as how Kakashi think everything is ok but then found out Obito got crushed by a boulder. So yes, Sakura can't be blamed. One moment that you can't resist the massive destruction.

Next, Sakura unable to help others. First of all, give her a break because at least she actually cares about everyone, which btw what a heroine truly is, not focusing on one or even yourself. At this point, you can see why Naruto and Sakura are the heroes, because they care about others. Does that mean others like Konoha 9 doesn't? Not really, but the reason why Kishi don't show that, whether true or not, is because that's not their place. They're side characters, not meant to have many dimensions to their characters. That's the main characters' job and if they don't have it, then the writer would need to write better in order to capture the audience attention. Also, the side characters, mainly K9, only get emotional when the classmates are the one to get axed, so that's the closest you get from them.So I really appreciate this chapter for showing Naruto and Sakura's agony because they're our heroes and stuff like this tells us this is their final mission. Not really because of Sasuke but in terms of terrorists' threats and all, this is it. But no, you want her to go all out asap when this chapter is about one final stand before everything becomes a waste.

So going back on not helping others, again, Katsuyu gave an reasonable explanation and again, Sakura was caught in the bad moment. When she recovered, everything was pretty much wiped out. While she can help one (Shikamaru), she wants to help all, because again, she's the heroine and that's what they do. But no, please kick ass. Look, I'm not saying she will or not, but calm down. This is a grief chapter, which by the way I called it again in the podcast that the next chapter is going to have talking and Naruto will end it with his ultimate determination. The funny thing is I even heard this talk and the guy even knows that medic equals very heroic, but again, since this is a Shounen, everyone must fight 24/7, but I digress. So yes, at least she cares about others, but unfortunately, Katsuyu minis are drained out, so to say, and pretty told her that they are in fact dead. Sakura was broken because they are dead and it's not that she couldn't save them because of her being weak, which is absurd. It's because a mass genocide just happened that happened to be done with a massive destruction that is the God Tree.

So now, we got some complaints about the emotional turmoil from her. Why is that a bad thing? She's going through what Naruto went and going through now. She cares about everyone, so of course she feels upset. Here's something you got to credit, at least she is worthy to be person in the Hokage's office for having that much care for her own people. She has grown up a lot but now, she's entering the hard process: losing thousands in a blink of an eye. That's why the RTN movie felt close to original characters because if people thinks Sakura only care about Konoha in that movie due to role switch, that's completely wrong. It's the fact that she really loves her home as much as Naruto. By the way, this is not a pairing argument, this is about Sakura, so don't go crying on me, I'm only going with the manga being told. This is why in that movie works really well because it will tell you that minus personality, her character would be the same. So needless to say, she is like Naruto in that sense.

That all being said of course she will feel pain. Naruto is, right? She felt the same back in Pain because her beloved home is gone at the time. That's why she got this kind of screen time and not so much on others because there's more to her and let's not forget one important aspect: she's made to be human. Heck, I like Naruto here because Sakura knows he's human, but not many others really don't get it. They have to look inside to understand that even though he's their savior, he's still human. This is why I like this chapter and sure, it's redundant for Naruto feeling this, but again, he's human and this is pretty much a setup for one final battle, in this war of course.

So should we be angry at Kishi for this chapter on Sakura? Of course not, but if you let the antis or even your own first impression, then you're missing the point. Who is to say Sakura is highly motivated after this chapter? Remember, in chapter 573, she don't want him to handle the burden alone anymore. Also, remember chapter 628, she was worried but after Naruto talked, she was very motivated to the point she said "Shannaro" which by the way means that she's very hyped. If you're a fan, you would know this already. The reason why she does so, without any pairing argument inserted here, is because she can relate to Naruto easily from experiences and characteristics. Why you think we got two panels of her reaction in 628? Anyway, the next chapter could very well lead to anything, but no doubt Sakura will get more focus after this chapter. Time will tell. Well I hope you have a good time reading this. It wasn't easy to be honest, because I held frustration on unnecessary, intentional or not, argument, so here it is, or at least partial of it. Anyway, don't get down. Next chapter, next volume, it should be a good one for her.

 

The heroine should care as much as the hero about others, and should be just as layered.  Never has it really become so clear to me, until you brought it up.  I like how you summarized this, while putting down the common hate arguments.

Edited by DattebayoXShannaro, 17 September 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[deviouslyChaotic]

I just wanted to say that your sig is awesome. 

Hahaha, thank you! I'm afraid it's too big though so I have to find a way to resize it before the new sig size limit is put into action.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

The heroine should care as much as the hero about others, and should be just as layered.  Never has it really become so clear to me, until you brought it up.  I like how you summarized this, while putting down the common hate arguments.

Thank you. ^_^

[redragon88]

There's not even a hint.

Personally I'm expecting more than a simple "I love you with all my heart". How and why? What did she see in him? Romance is not
that blunt.

With Naruto's love, we can see why and how he loves her because of the close perspective we have on him. We see what about her that makes his tender smile, blush etc.(if you want me to point it out, I will gladly). That says much more than three words, and we're not 'forced' to deal with the pairing. Even though I'm pleased that he admitted it all to Sai.

 

Sakura loving Sasuke was always an arbitrary choice on her part (Kishimoto himself used those words) that was based on his popularity.

 

The thing is that Sakura is a stubborn individual (just like Naruto, which is in turn why he loves her) and didn't want to just let go of that first love she chose. So even if all the signs where clear that it wasn't good for her she still pressed on because she didn't want to lose. Isn't that something that her databook says, that she hates to lose?

 

No matter how much her feelings for Sasuke diminish she subconsciously keeps them because otherwise it would mean she fails. And even though she might develop feelings for Naruto she unknowingly represses them since that would mean letting go of the love for Sasuke which she has trouble doing because of what I explained above.

 

Notice that the only time she chose to make herself lose in her love for Sasuke is when it meant that it might cause Naruto unacceptable danger in her eyes. That speaks a lot of how precious Naruto has become in Sakura's eyes. When confronted with a choice Sakura immediately concluded that getting Sasuke, thus fulfilling her selfish desire to win in love, was not worth it if it meant that Naruto was hurt in the process.

 

Despite the messy plot, I'll give the Summit arc the good point of showing how Sakura has come to protect Naruto's happiness just like Naruto has for hers.

 

What Sakura needs to understand is that letting go of Sasuke doesn't mean she loses in love. The only way that you're able to win at love is to choose to be with the person that makes you the happiest even if it's not the first person you looked at. When Sakura realizes that giving her love to Naruto means she wins at love that's the moment her romantic subplot is completed.

Edited by redragon88, 17 September 2013 - 11:36 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
Sakura loving Sasuke was always an arbitrary choice on her part (Kishimoto himself used those words) that was based on his popularity.
 
The thing is that Sakura is a stubborn individual (just like Naruto, which is in turn why he loves her) and didn't want to just let go of that first love she chose. So even if all the signs where clear that it wasn't good for her she still pressed on because she didn't want to lose. Isn't that something that her databook says, that she hates to lose?
 
No matter how much her feelings for Sasuke diminish she subconsciously keeps them because otherwise it would mean she fails. And even though she might develop feelings for Naruto she unknowingly represses them since that would mean letting go of the love for Sasuke which she has trouble doing because of what I explained above.
 
Notice that the only time she chose to make herself lose in her love for Sasuke is when it meant that it might cause Naruto unacceptable danger in her eyes. That speaks a lot of how precious Naruto has become in Sakura's eyes. When confronted with a choice Sakura immediately concluded that getting Sasuke, thus fulfilling her selfish desire to win in love, was not worth it if it meant that Naruto was hurt in the process.
 
Despite the messy plot, I'll give the Summit arc the good point of showing how Sakura has come to protect Naruto's happiness just like Naruto has for hers.
 
What Sakura needs to understand is that letting go of Sasuke doesn't mean she loses in love. The only way that you're able to win at love is to choose to be with the person that makes you the happiest even if it's not the first person you looked at. When Sakura realizes that giving her love to Naruto means she wins at love that's the moment her romantic subplot is completed.

That last paragraph really says it all.

[Inferno180]

There was a reason I feel Sakura's notion of "feeling Naruto's heart was better than the rest. Everyone saw the hardships Naruto had to endure, but Sakura was well aware of them and was even an integral part of it. Its true everyone got a better understanding of Naruto's hardships in this chapter from when he conveyed his regrets. Tsunade and Orochimaru saw his regrets over Jiraya's death, Hiruzen saw his own death left an impact on Naruto, team 10 and Hirzuen saw the impact from losing Asuma. Minato saw the ordeal of his and Kushina's death on Naruto. Hinata saw losing Neji hurt Naruto too. However I feel it was Sasuke and Sakura who got the most impact from this event. Here's why:

 

For Sasuke: He saw how Naruto felt about Itachi, though its not going to avert the future fight, it can lead to a sense of sympathy for Naruto for a bigger impact once.

 

For Sakura however: I feel that Sakura has been impacted the most seeing the hardships. Sakura herself had seen some of these and even experienced the hardships herself, losing Sasuke  was the first, it wasn't fully the same totally as Naruto but she came to see the same reasons for how Naruto felt.

 

This chapter for regrets were those who died over the course of the series save for Sasuke leaving. Though Sasuke may get some sympathy for Naruto due to how he felt over Itachi's situation and faith in Naruto, its not going to avert that future final fight but it will be a stepping stone to Sasuke returning. However I feel Sakura is the biggest one to be impacted because we can theorize it like this, if people saw all his hardships and loss, Sakura herself may again be the one to best understand because she has been experienced to that aspect of when Sasuke left more than anyone. Second only to Naruto she had a pain of Sasuke leaving but also knew how much it meant to Naruto beyond herself. If this is expanded on, if it shows how Naruto felt towards his other shortcomings, I wouldn't count out other things such as his other regrets like the pain that befell others like Gaara or the devastation of the village from Nagato. Its however because of Sakura's experience at the 4 tails and the reveal from Sai, rather the events from her actions in the land of iron from what Sai said, I feel that the land of iron events and what it caused to Sakura back then and what happened now is the biggest potential impact of that hardship, the hardship of the promise. I'm not saying this is going to trigger a NS moment, but if other hardships come up, for Sakura to feel what Sai already told her, how it impacted Naruto, well she already has a strong bond with Naruto, so those events in the land of iron, for all the haters who did say it was a failure, it gave her understanding and growth for 630 towards naruto. If everyone is now understanding some of the same hardships but Sakura already had a good idea then she would understand the promise more than anyone now more than ever because it was directed towards her. If the hardship of the promise comes up, its likely that more will be conveyed. This is just once again showcasing how Sakura not only had a head start on understanding Naruto's problems before anyone who is just now getting a general recap and those who were part of those events or related to certain people, I feel its Sakura who got the best cut. Hinata only has the loss of Neji to correlate with here, Sakura at least had the experience of trying to deal or cope with those hardships of his, even sacrificing her own happiness for him to atone for the pain it caused. If anything about how he felt over these moments if it expands, it may impact Sakura more positively and greater than anyone because lets face it, she had a good understanding already like the lonliness, the nine tails burden, Sasuke, the promise. If more comes up its very possible the reason why he could not confess to her is brought up. If all the regrets are brought up Sakura would see his feelings about all of it and I highly feel somethng positive can arise from this event for NS.

 

It still helps to mention how the majority of past development, kushina's foreshadow+ backstory with Minato, and 631 are still good indicators for NS over the others to come forward. While everyone has a general idea, I feel that Sakura and Sasuke got the biggest cut of understanding mainly Sasuke for the general plotwise parts but Sakura more so because of how she has experienced some of these and even took an integral role in some of his hardships. These may not be expanded on fully but I feel the sai reveal (why he cannot confess) and/or aspect of the promise will be brought up.

 

Its nothing pairing oriented but I feel Sakura again got a major cut and only gained an even further understanding of Naruto better than anyone apart from Sasuke.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I do feel that the next chapter we will Sakura's reaction to the whole regrets lineup, which may cause her to motivate not stopping there. Also, Tsunade is almost here, so I expect something to come out with the next chapter, so I expect something out of it. Not to mention, the next chapter is a new volume, which usually mean a small timeout moment, and then the battle begins. Kages got to show up first, before everything begins.

[Inferno180]

Its definitely a possibility to further NS, I mean its mainly just the hardships of who Naruto lost, obviously Sasuke's impact from seeing how Naruto felt towards Itachi will be the key to his return after the final fight. With Sakura though that "loss" was how Sasuke left and how they both felt about it. If it is expanded on, I highly believe its likely that the past bruden of the promise and from what Sai told her, how she tried to fix it, and why he felt that way about her may all be conveyed to Sakura. I feel Sakura is in a position to understand Naruto the best out of everyone because she experienced and came to understand some of his burdens long before this event and now got the full picture while everyone else (save Sasuke and a few others) got a better experience from some who he has seen died. I mean this was mainly over those who died (save Sasuke who left) but if this either expands more on his other factors or not, that one with sasuke leaving, yes it impacted Sakura and look what event it can intersect with, how Naruto felt about the promise and what Sai revealed to Sakura. In all other senses, I consider this a potential expansion for NS to build on considering those past events being so integral between Naruto and Sakura. People may forget the promise but it may be something that just draws her closer, if there is more being revealed than we have not seen yet, NS may move forward. Even then it has potential with just the other past development and 631 still more so over the other pairings. Its not pairing material, only leaving it as possible build able material, this regret conveying may just end in this chapter or more will be revealed. How we see others react to this event like Sakura will possibly show more. If it does show Naruto's feelings towards her, should Sakura see this, it may be something all the more positive.

Edited by Inferno180, 18 September 2013 - 01:22 AM.

[awesome sauce dude]

Holy crap, what is wrong with Karin? I had to read her part like three times to make sure I knew what I was reading. Sure it was really funny but really, she wants to lick sasuke. That's going kinda to far

[Inferno180]

Holy crap, what is wrong with Karin? I had to read her part like three times to make sure I knew what I was reading. Sure it was really funny but really, she wants to lick sasuke. That's going kinda to far

 

Um, this is the NS debate thread, not really the place for stuff like that, maybe talk about this in the Naruto 647 thread.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yet the parallel still can happen. Funny how open the door still is.

[Hiraishin]

 

Sakura loving Sasuke was always an arbitrary choice on her part (Kishimoto himself used those words) that was based on his popularity.

Actually, when Sakura first announced her crush on Sasuke she didn't know he was popular; she was surprised when she learned this. Not defending her feelings or anything, believe me lol, but if you get into a debate with an SS shipper they'll definitely throw that in your face. But I do think his popularity contributed to her crush and made her want to "win his heart" more than before.