9679 replies to this topic

[alexander]

That is so true.
As much as Sakura has a strong will and confidence, Kishi doesn't really portray it with her. Sakura's stuck in Naruto and Sasuke's shadow. We has read a little about both their trainings, but what about Sakura? Isn't she also from Team seven? The only ones who stand out are Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi. I can't help but find it a bit sexist. I'm itching for a scene that shows Sakura working hard and growing stronger. Without Sakura's role in the manga, the characters developements wouldn't be the same. She plays an important part, yet where is she?

It's very unlikely for such a thing to happen, since Kishimoto is shown to be an obvious tradicionalist from the way he portrait his story telling, and for a tradicionalist guy, a little bit of sexism comes along, you know, the old idea that a woman place is behinde a man shadow? So, I think that as long as he keep this sort of character development, little will change for Sakura side.

[Gravenimage]

Kishi did said he was going to try and fix Sakura's character trying to make her looked more heroic, at least he could give her a cool opponent to fight or save Naruto.

[Miss Soupy]

It's very unlikely for such a thing to happen, since Kishimoto is shown to be an obvious tradicionalist from the way he portrait his story telling, and for a tradicionalist guy, a little bit of sexism comes along, you know, the old idea that a woman place is behinde a man shadow? So, I think that as long as he keep this sort of character development, little will change for Sakura side.

The problem with that theory though is it wasn't like that in Part I when he set up all these goals for Sakura. It has only been in part II where he has completely flip-flopped. And that goes beyond even just Sakura, but some other themes as well. But for Sakura specifically, he made a point in part I to show her craving the chance to stand beside Naruto and Sasuke, which sets up the prime opportunity for that to happen now in part II. But rather than doing that, he has Sakura settle with, 'I'll believe in them both!'. Why even bother with the 'I don't want to look at their backs' when he, in the end, decides that is quite alright for her to do so? It's like he ran out of time, wanted to do more for Sasuke and Naruto and Sakura basically got re-routed to fit his new direction. I have a hard time believing a lot of his story for part II was visualized when he was writing part I.

[Cloud]

I have a hard time believing a lot of his story for part II was visualized when he was writing part I.

Unless he was OCD on completing his manga with storyboards already drawn out, then yeah. I see the unlikeliness of an author planning several hundred chapters ahead on paper or in his head.

[Gravenimage]

I believe the story is in Kishi's head from beginning to end. He did said he knows how Naruto will end so I doubt he has storyboards ar anything like that.

[Miss Soupy]

Unless he was OCD on completing his manga with storyboards already drawn out, then yeah. I see the unlikeliness of an author planning several hundred chapters ahead on paper or in his head.

Yeah XD But even the major focus I think he completely changed. I think somewhere along the way he decided he really liked destiny after all and it became the focal point of the story whereas part I it was the opposite. Not gonna lie, I hate the prophecy/destiny business.

EDIT:
@graven
Knowing the ending is a lot different than knowing how to get to that ending. I'm sure he knows how he wants things to end, but I'm pretty sure he has dramatically changed how he plans to get there from what he planned in part I.

Edited by Miss Soupy, 19 July 2010 - 11:38 PM.

[Broken Figurine]

The problem with that theory though is it wasn't like that in Part I when he set up all these goals for Sakura. It has only been in part II where he has completely flip-flopped. And that goes beyond even just Sakura, but some other themes as well. But for Sakura specifically, he made a point in part I to show her craving the chance to stand beside Naruto and Sasuke, which sets up the prime opportunity for that to happen now in part II. But rather than doing that, he has Sakura settle with, 'I'll believe in them both!'. Why even bother with the 'I don't want to look at their backs' when he, in the end, decides that is quite alright for her to do so? It's like he ran out of time, wanted to do more for Sasuke and Naruto and Sakura basically got re-routed to fit his new direction. I have a hard time believing a lot of his story for part II was visualized when he was writing part I.

I think she was doing fine until those particular scenes. It seems that when Sakura was given a focus the second time around (first time being her fight) her character surprised a lot of fans. I thought she had already 'believed' in them, like when Hinata had called out for Naruto and Sakura told her to focus on the enemy instead. Sakura had been a strong character during her breif apperances in part two, even though she was not directly involved all the time she still had her scenes where she appered to present a strength in character. She unfortunately cannot stand by Naruto and Sasuke's side as an equal in fighting ability and skill, and that much she knows. If she came to the conclusion that Naruto better understands Sasuke, and is the only one capable of truly standing as an equal to him, perhaps she could have said something along the lines of "believing in Naruto" and "doing as much as she possibly can to help him", rather than just write herself off as doing nothing and just standing at the sidelines, cheerleading. She has grown stronger, even in those scenes so some of her goal has come true. Her character has built enough that she could admonish Sasuke and defend Naruto against him. She is closer to understanding them than she used to be, and all "I" can do is hope Kishimoto builds on her and not simply throw her away and leave her behind.

He has definitely changes his themes around, though, particularly with the destiny vs decision thing. In the beginning Naruto and Neji were fighting over fate and what birthright really meant. Now Naruto is a "child of prophecy", his brotherly/rival relationship with Sasuke "destined", and even his favourite colour orange being a product of his parents. Naruto was destined to be something great--so he wasn't a loser after all. How does this match up to what he was saying before in Part 1?

[Miss Soupy]

@Broken
I probably should have clarified to more recent part II rather than the entire thing. I do agree, she did start off well in part II and had good development. Because of that I got my hopes up for continued positive development on her part. However, the end of the Pain arc gave us roller-coaster Sakura. She was up and down, and eventually fell to a desperation she should have been above at that point. And you are right in that she should have known already that Naruto understood Sasuke better than her. And Sakura doesn't have to be on their level fighting-wise to be equal to them either. The moment she hugged Naruto when he returned from fighting Pain showed great equality between the two of them, I thought. He didn't return to her acting like some huge hero that could be above her, but instead as the same Naruto that she had grown to love dearly. And she, for all of her stubborn pride, could allow her sensitive side to show for him. But from then on, she was completely different. I enjoy Sakura because she is real, but I still think kishi could have done a better job with showing her weakness. It could have flowed a lot better. Instead it felt more forced.

[tricksie]

I agree with both Broken Figurine and Miss Soupy, on all points.

So I have another question. There was talk at one time about a Sakura and a Kakashi arc. Well...did I miss it?

Was this last part her arc? And was Kakashi's the gaiden? Or were both "arcs" mixed in together in this last little Sakura-catches-Sasuke-and-Kakashi-sorta-acknowledges-her arc?

I thought Kishi was the source for that Sakura and Kakashi arc idea, but now that I think about it, maybe it was random fan conjecture touted as official.

What do you think...was that her moment of heroism, tidily swept under the rug with an "Oh, I'll just let the boys handle it" statement? Is there really going to be a Sakura arc before everything is said and done?

Edited by tricksie, 20 July 2010 - 01:05 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

Ah the rumored Kakashi and Sakura development... Kishi said in an interview that there would be a year of Kakashi and Sakura development. I believe instead we got a year of Sasuke development.

[Gravenimage]

This is what I'm talking about when it comes to interviews Kishi doesn't always fulfill what he says in interview, so the last interview he did most of the information he said he won't do in his manga because he obviously changes his opinion as he writes his manga.

[Miss Soupy]

Yeah, that's why I always take interviews with a grain of salt. Kishi has a habit of changing his mind. Not on everything of course...but still. Easier to just focus on the manga rather than a 'kishi's says'.

[Zin]

Yeah, that's why I always take interviews with a grain of salt. Kishi has a habit of changing his mind. Not on everything of course...but still. Easier to just focus on the manga rather than a 'kishi's says'.

That's a rather disturbing thought considering he could just turn around and say "You know...I really don't like narusaku". Also makes him seem like a rather poor writer imo...

[alexander]

That's a rather disturbing thought considering he could just turn around and say "You know...I really don't like narusaku". Also makes him seem like a rather poor writer imo...

Now, that would be a disaster! But seriously, I don't think that Kishimoto would do something like that, turning his back against Narusaku after so much development, and making another random couple like naruhina ,it's not like him, I know, sometimes he commite mistakes, make some of the characters look really bad, but he never goes against his character development, and because of that, I don't think he will ignore all the precious moments Naruto and Sakura had together :True:

[Codus N]

Ah the rumored Kakashi and Sakura development... Kishi said in an interview that there would be a year of Kakashi and Sakura development. I believe instead we got a year of Sasuke development.

Well, from reading Bakuman, we know that editors are pretty authoritarian with their mangakas, so It's likely that Kishi was pressured by his editor to change the focus of the story. The Sasuke crap was probably his editor's doing & favoritism. Not only that, Japan prefers the emo guy over the bright cheery guy. So in order to keep the popularity, they gave more Sasuke fanservice more than needed. Hell, I'm thinking that maybe the editor doesn't care as long as they keep their position in the Top 3 ranking. The editor doesn't care kitten about the story. In the west, people would prefer Naruto arcs instead of Sasuke crap arcs. But looking at it on an objective side, Naruto arcs when compared to Sasuke arcs have more quality & usually evolves the story even further. The last 2 Naruto arcs prove how they evolve the story greatly. For Sasuke arcs the story becomes as stale as a day old bread. I sure would give his editor a good beating if this was true.

[Jenskott]

Well, from reading Bakuman, we know that editors are pretty authoritarian with their mangakas, so It's likely that Kishi was pressured by his editor to change the focus of the story. The Sasuke crap was probably his editor's doing & favoritism.

Well... I know Kishimoto hadn't planned on creating Sasuke, but his editor asked/advised/ordered him creating a rival for the main character, and then he created Sasuke (and he decided to create Sakura). And I have heard Kishimoto intended killing Sasuke way back in Wave Country.

Kishimoto has also stated he has already plotted the end and the general plotlines, but sometimes he changes things because he comes up with something different or his editor forces him to change the plot or he has no time to tell all he wants because he has deadlines he must meet.

Edited by Jenskott, 20 July 2010 - 12:21 PM.

[Gravenimage]

Editors can be a pain in the a** sometimes but if Kishi didn't intended to create Sasuke in the first place then he never intended of psiring him with anyone especially Sakura. Maybe he knew he was going to pair her with Naruto the main protagonist when he created Sasuke he probably already knew the shonen plotline to go for which this makes me believe that Kishi already intended in making NS since he started writting his manga.

[Zin]

Editors can be a pain in the a** sometimes but if Kishi didn't intended to create Sasuke in the first place then he never intended of psiring him with anyone especially Sakura. Maybe he knew he was going to pair her with Naruto the main protagonist when he created Sasuke he probably already knew the shonen plotline to go for which this makes me believe that Kishi already intended in making NS since he started writting his manga.

Narusaku fanaticism aside, I'd say sasusaku has been dead for quite a while. Both Sakura and Sasuke would have to change drastically at this point and even then it's a stretch. Speaking for myself at least I wouldn't find someone too appealing after they tried to kill me...but maybe I'm just odd like that...

Was there an interview or something where Kishi explicitly stated that he didn't plan to create Sakura or Sasuke ? For two characters that are such an integral part of the manga I can't help but be skeptical of that...

[Derock]

Was there an interview or something where Kishi explicitly stated that he didn't plan to create Sakura or Sasuke ? For two characters that are such an integral part of the manga I can't help but be skeptical of that...

For Sasuke, he said he wasn't intended on creating him in the first place. That was a fact. But for Sakura, he said he wasn't intended for her to become the main female lead, because of how the way he drew her. He did planned on making her, but probably a support character (I wonder, if Sakura wasn't to become the main female, who was? And it better not be Hinata)

[Gravenimage]

For Sasuke, he said he wasn't intended on creating him in the first place. That was a fact. But for Sakura, he said he wasn't intended for her to become the main female lead, because of how the way he drew her. He did planned on making her, but probably a support character (I wonder, if Sakura wasn't to become the main female, who was? And it better not be Hinata)

I don't think so the only reason he created Hinata it's because he needed a third member for team 8. He already had Kiba and Shino but he needed a third member and he eventually he thought it had to be a female because the other teams has one female member.

Team 7- Sakura

Team 10- Ino

Team Gai- Tenten

So eventually Kishi created a female character for team 8 and that was Hinata it happened because of the first sketch he drew of her wearing a dress and a ring with Naruto in the far background staring at the sun (yeah I'm talking about the same drawing that a certain fandom were saying that it was solid proof that Kishi was planning on making a certain pairing canon since the beginning of his manga ).