1124 replies to this topic

[luffyq1]

Lol, I like how you have this never giving up attitude (in regards to Sakura being stabbed) which would put even Naruto's into shame. It always gives me a good chuckle with how insistent you are. I mean in a good way. 

 

But your prediction already came true, with Sakura getting stabbed for real this chapter. So, why predict the same thing again? 

lol

[Shadow Wolf]

See my response to James. I think Tsunade could do that do, but she never gets the chance given that she's burned herself out fighting Madara and then keep the gfive Kage's alive while in two pieces.

An example...what is something Naruto did that Jiriaya and Kakashi could not: Add an element to Rasengan. It's apparently too much to ask or hope that she take that seal and move it a step further than even Tsuande did. Wouldn't that make Sakura look awesome. I think so.

Now then, while I understand your reasoning, or at least I hope I do, let's analyze a few things:

-I think we both agree that we want to see more of Sakura's Byakugou seal. But she hasn't really had that much of a chance. Like I said, now that she was going to show the Byakugou, Madara flies away to activate the Tsukuyomi. As such I'm actually wondering (and I dare to ask you) in what situation at the moment can we see more of her abilities? Next chapter? Maybe. I do hope to see more of her before this manga ends. But remember, being happy and being a conformist are not the same thing. I'm happy to see that Sakura can use the offensive side of Byakugou like Tsunade, but I'm hoping to see more than a blocked punch of course.

-Now then, here's when I say thay things begin to get unfair: when you make comparisons like this one. When did Naruto learn the Rasengan? Back in part 1. And when did he imbue it with wind element? 2 1/2 yeats later. Same with Sasuke and his Chidori and improving it to use it through his sword and his body. Another thing to keep in mind is the unconventional training methods. Naruto can learn everything faster because of his mass chakra storage along with shadow clones and Kyuubi chakra. As for Sasuke, well, even though we may not have an exact explanation, I say that he was doing nothing more than training.

With these two points, let's go back to Sakura. She barely activated the Byakugou seal recently on the war and we can see in a few hours/days, that she has pretty much the same abilities as Tsunade.

So look at that, even though it is an unfair comparison, we see that she has achieved more with his new power up within the short time that she has acquired it than her teammates when they acquired their power ups (and I'm speaking in terms of hours/days after they acquired their powerups).

Now, I know you will bring the argument of this having nothing to do with surpassing their teachers, which actually drives me to my next point: I actually agree with you on this particular topic. I must admit thay Kishi hasn't given her enough screentime to showcase her Byakugou abilities. However, I'm actally happy (again, not the same as comformist or satisfied) that she can use her Byakugou offensively, which, given the recognition by Madara, informs us that at least she is on par with Tsunade at the moment even though she just learned the seal.

And finally, the final point, which I want to try to address as politely as possible: why did you take my post as me trying to disagree with you? If you were complaining about the author, then there was no reason to feel targeted by my post. If anything, you should have agreed when I said that Kishi isn't good at handling female characters.

[James S Cassidy]

Well then, Nate, all I have to say is that according to all the logic that you put down to the table; All the reasons that both you and Dark place down to show case why you think Sakura is so bad; is not because she is a bad character, but is really a case of you only seeing what you want to believe. That everything you criticize is not a matter of objectivity, but rather because nothing ever lives up your your standards of how you want the story to go and in that case nothing will ever be good to you. This isn't even just what happened in this chapter, but everything that has happened ever since this war started.
 

No offense, but how can I really take your judgement as credible when every single time there is a discussion there is always one more thing you feel upset with? One that didn't live up to that expectation in some way shape or form and with you, being intelligent as you are, should know that the expectation you are after are rather impossible without breaking the manga more than it already has. Sure, there was missed opportunities and I am not saying their wasn't, but whenever the discussions come into play or what we apply to every character in the manga, there is always some hand wave? I see it every time I read your posts.

I am not trying to flame or bash, but truth be told I cannot take yours or Dark's posts as credible anymore because they all have the same subject matter. "It's not what I wanted or expected, so it must be bad."

 

If I take both yours and Darks way of reasoning and apply to the manga entirely, then Sakura is the ONLY character that is actually perfectly written, flaws and all. Her core character is a growing process and she has great transition. There is always something to talk about and always a struggle within herself that really defines a human being. She is more human and has more characteristics than every other character in this entire series.

Sakura has never been asspulled into getting awesome powers. The Byakugou seal comes close, but it still has a good explanation that keeps it from being a pure asspull. This is contrary to Naruto and Sasuke's powers where they just gain strength and power all because they are a reincarnation. Something you have expressed great detest for. She never once was excused of her actions and Kishimoto never had her point the blame on someone else. When someone told her that it was her fault, she rightfully took the blame and tried to make it better. She failed, but at the same time she didn't. She made mistakes, but she never said those mistakes should be ignored or forgotten and no one here has ever tried to hand wave or excuse.

This is unlike Naruto, or Sasuke, or even Hinata where the fans had to try and defend why their actions were justified instead of explaining why they did what they did. She is the only one who actually struggled with her own thoughts on whether or not something was the right or wrong action. A true human aspect that plagues real people in real life. She gets criticized and poked at by people of other fandoms and even here and yet she still manages to surpass everything people claimed she would be.

No, she is not as strong as Naruto and Sasuke, but then again she surpassed everything that was thrown at her and she did it all with people criticizing her. Even you have to admit that the things she has done sometimes came at you with a surprise. Meanwhile, Naruto and Sasuke fail in even their own goals time and time again. Naruto who hasn't even once reached Sasuke since part two at all, and Sasuke who chickens out on all his plans and changes his mind faster than Two-Face. Hell, Two-Face actually went with some of his plans he wanted to do.

You want to say that Sakura is so weak? I think Sakura is the strongest character in the show because she has never once wavered and learned from all her mistakes. I am proud of her. I had no expectations for her ever since the confession and every time I am proven wrong. Thank god I am proven wrong. I am happy I am proven wrong.

That's the problem with the fandom today. It's always how THEY want the story to be written. How THEY wanted the story to play out. Sakura's character is the most amazing out of every other character in the show and she did it all despite everything that goes on. I am sorry you don't agree with me. I am sorry you don't like Sakura. I am sorry you hate this manga with every chapter that comes out. You can lie to yourselves that that is not the case, but I can read every post you make and it is pretty evident.

Again. I am not trying to bash you or Dark for what you believe in. I am not trying to say that you should just believe what everyone else believes in. I am just saying that maybe the problems that you face with this manga are not because of bad writing, but because you didn't get what you wanted out of it. Everytime I confront you with these inconsistencies or illogical reasoning or some other inconsistencies in your logic, I find that you guys backpedal or try to reassess that the views you speak of are misinterpreted. I caught you guys sometimes say one thing and then say something else entirely or try to word play the reasoning behind into being non-applicable.

Not only that, but when I point it out sometimes I get told I am flaming or bashing or hurting your feelings in some sort of way because I am apparently not "respecting your opinion." If I didn't respect your opinion, I wouldn't even bother replying, but maybe I shouldn't. Maybe I should just say here and now that the "Agree to Disagree" will forever be something between us three. I can write for days and posts on end about every detail, every fragment, and just crush everything with long posts that you probably don't want to spend reading.

To me, Sakura is the most well defined character out of every character in this entire series. Every step she takes is development and never once has she backpedaled in what she believed. She becomes conflicted sometimes, but that is part of her character that is the most interesting. Sakura has reason for what she believes in which is more than what Naruto and Sasuke can say when their belief system is more or less based on "Because I do" mentality. They even have times where the logic goes against them on screen and they still believe what they believe in is correct.

Her powers were all effort and training. She worked for it and continues to work for it to this day. You may not like that she is not as powerful as Naruto and Sasuke or Madara, but when you have character that got so much power boost for nothing, how can anyone keep up? You want to talk about bad writing? There it is. It's not Sakura and I think deep down you really know this.

 

As I said, this is NOT bashing. This is more like constructive criticism. Then again, even people take that as bashing because they hate being criticized at all. Not the first I have seen, but certainly won't be the last. I just want to say this because I want to have debates with you guys and discuss things. I see you both as intelligent people, but you have this stubbornness to you and sometimes even come off as snobbish and smug. You have no clue what happens behind the scenes of the forum, but I do. I hear it almost everyday from both active members now and former members then.

The sad part is, I am no better than you. Hell, even my own prejudiced against Sasuke has lead me down paths thinking that Sasuke was no more than a terrible written sub-plot trying to sound important. At times I even was wrong and I have viewed things differently. I still hate Sasuke and all that he is, but truth be told some things do make sense with him and somethings were supposed to be that way on purpose to push a plot point in that not everyone is going to think as logically as others. It happens. Sasuke is that chaos and he's meant to be erratic.

So, Nate....Dark. If you want to see this manga so negatively, that is fine. If you want to hold everything against Sakura and hand wave everyone else, that is fine too. I can't stop you and nothing I can say or do will change it. All I will say is it is going to be hard from here on out to really take you guys seriously because I don't know anymore if what you say is because of merit and actual point or is just a product of your own disappointments and failing to meet your expectations.

I love Sakura's character. I think she is the best written in the whole series. It's surprising, I must admit, that people criticize Kishi for not being able to write woman correctly and yet I feel Sakura represents the best out of the female sex. I know some females here can say with confidence that Sakura is their idol and wish to be just as strong as her even through rough times. Hell, I even want a girl someday just like Sakura because I know that that girl will be very passionate in everything that she does and nothing will be half-assed. She may even inspire me to break my limits.

I guess in conclusion, and pretty long winded XD, I can say that I agree to disagree.
 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 17 May 2014 - 09:29 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

So, Nate....Dark. If you want to see this manga so negatively, that is fine. If you want to hold everything against Sakura and hand wave everyone else, that is fine too. I can't stop you and nothing I can say or do will change it. All I will say is it is going to be hard from here on out to really take you guys seriously because I don't know anymore if what you say is because of merit and actual point or is just a product of your own disappointments and failing to meet your expectations.

I disagree with this assessment of Nate you have. (Can't really talk for Dark)

 

As far I know, he has addressed negative aspects of the characters equally. In fact, I can point out a few instances where the members of this NS Forum were having double standards and Nate wasn't.

 

People in this forum were bashing on Sasuke due to his asspull-based power-ups and a few were calling Sakura's Byakugo-no-in an asspull as well(when she has trained three years for it), while they called Naruto's new power-up as being "badass" or "cool"(when he got that particular power-up by just talking to the Hagoromo. I'm not talking about his other power-ups such as rasengan or sage mode which he trained). I think Nate and Googleismyfriend were the only people who pointed out the double standards of such claims. 

 

I can also remember how people were bashing Hinata's obsession towards Naruto, and also a little bashing towards Sakura and even going as far to call her a criminal for being in love with Sasuke, while people were calling Karin's attention towards Sasuke as just comedic, or sweet. Nate has addressed the hypocrisy in this as well. 

 

And while people praise Itachi, Obito, Gaara while badmouthing Sasuke, Nate (and Bakeneko chan) has addressed all the murdering these characters have done as evil. He didn't make one better than the other when they have done the same actions. 

 

How come Nate is talking things for the sake of merit and the other people in this NS fandom that are saying all the above hypocritical statements are not?

 

I don't see what 'merit' Nate can gain.

But I do see what 'merit' the other people can gain. (Hinata bashing, Sasuke bashing, Sakura bashing if she is shown to love Sasuke, and SasuKarin praising while bashing SasuSaku are all showing of their desire to have NaruSaku and hold everything against the ones that go against it. 

 

Sorry, but that was not an accurate assessment. 

 

I'm also tired of people bashing Sakura while handwaving the other characters for making the same mistakes, but I don't see Nate doing that. 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 17 May 2014 - 05:10 AM.

[narusaku256]

Even the Naruto vs Sasuke  fight at the Vote was downplayed  so Sasuke can "WIN" 
 
1. Naruto didn't summon Gamabunta and he could and that would have been GAME OVER for Sasuke
 
2. Naruto didn't went with the intent to strike Sasuke with the Rasengan he went with the intent to scratch his "Headband" so he can WON the bet which he DID  if Naruto went with full force i don't think Sasuke would have been able to stand straight up or be conscious for that matter.      

Su....Sugoi dis *applauds*!!!!!!! Even for that rod thing about Sakura you said, Hashirama and Tobirama got immobilised with it. So far, only Naruto and now Sakura have been shown to move and keep up their strength when the rods are inside their body. Strange irony.

BOY I MISSED THE DEBATE!!! I would have loved to ravage Sasuke by words! Darn!

Edited by narusaku256, 17 May 2014 - 05:15 AM.

[rocci]

@ramen
This is the last chance for my prediction to happen, and I am okay if it doesn't happen.
The reason? I believe the one who will beat madara is naruto and the one who will finish him off is obito and sasuke become jealous like usual.
So this will play like naruto vs garra but this time it's sakura who protect naruto.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

 

That's what I'm praying for. Signs are subtlely pointing to it, but from Kishi's past treatment of Sakura it's easy for me to get discouraged.

 

I'm sure Kishimoto's well aware of what he's doing.  He started a plot chain with chapter 54:

 

54

 

Evolved in chapter 236:

236

 

Again, reiterated in chapter 310:

310

 

Then chapter 343:

343

 

Then, more recent, chapter 631:

631

 

Anyway, two things can be discerned from these pages.  One is that Sakura wants to be able to fight together with Naruto and Sasuke (if he's around, and on their side).  She wants to be like them in terms of fighting skill.  She doesn't want to be relegated to the back, only to watch and be protected (Oh, the irony is thick), and be in the front with them. The latest chapter shows it as well.  The second is that she particular wants to be of help to Naruto and grow stronger with him.  This is lampshaded numerous times.  However, things don't add up.  It's what happens in between chapters 310 and 343.  After declaring that they'll get stronger together, what happens next?  Kakashi comes up with training solely for Naruto.  The training helped Naruto to become stronger; Sakura remained the same.  What he says in chapter 343 is bit incorrect.  He's the only one getting closer to Sasuke.  It's proven during the Second Team Seven Reunion, where Sakura can only rely on Naruto to deal with Sasuke.  The very last thing she wanted to do, during that arc for obvious reasons.  This clear distance that grew between Naruto and Sakura can start back here in the Kidan and Kakuzu arc.  Why wasn't there training for Sakura?  The main point was for them to grow stronger together.  However, only Naruto is clearly getting stronger. 

 

It's not like Kishimoto forgot.  It was the chapter before that arc when Sakura re-declared that they will get stronger together.  Also, it's not like Kishimoto scrapped it, because Sakura's desire to stand with her teammates, to be with them in the front, keeps being brought up, hence chapter 632 and recently chapter 676.  It's all in Kishimoto-sensei's mind though; he has something planned.  However, I can't begin to think on what he plans for Sakura, because of my limited, incomplete knowledge, and the fact I don't know what future events entail.  However, the setup is there.

 

From my limited knowledge, I can tell that despite choosing to be Tsunade's disciple, and being a medic, Sakura clearly desires to fight.  As stated in chapter 54, she desires to be like Naruto, Sasuke and Lee, and none of them are medics.  However, it is her own occupation that is hindering her from fighting.  It's portrayed in the second Sasuke Retrieval arc:

chapter 308

 

Here you clearly seen Yamato getting between Sasuke and Sakura, because he knew Sakura couldn't handle Sasuke.  The reason is simple:  she's a medic.  She's not supposed to actually fight, but to stay alive in order to heal her comrades.  It's Tsunade's rules:

1.  Medical Ninja's never give up on treating their teammates as long as they can still breathe.

2.  Medical Ninja's are not allowed to engage in battles.

3.  Medical Ninja's shall be the last to die in the team.

4.  Only those who have mastered Byakugou are the only ones allowed to break the above three rules.

 

Tsunade clearly pursued medical knowledge over fighting.  It was because of the deaths of Nawaki and Dan, that she strove to become a leader in the medical field.  Even Orochimaru lampshades this.  The only reason some fans call her the weakest Kage is because she can't fight as well as Jiraiya and Orochimaru.  Those fans are missing the point.  She didn't strive to become a fighter in the first place.  Her medical achievements are clearly to match the the other two Sannin's fighting ability, not her own fighting ability, which is still impressive considering her field, but not really suited for shinobi battles.

 

Anyway, back on topic, the reason Sakura can't hope to fight as well as she desires at present is because she's a medic nin.  It's so obvious that we all know it.  Why did Yamato get in front of Sakura?  Because medical nins like her aren't supposed to engage in combat.  Why was there no training for her from Kakashi?  Same reason.  Kakashi isn't a medic, and from his perspective, whatever he could teach her would be pointless, because she's not supposed to be fighting anyway.

 

What I do want to stress that may not be as well known is that Sakura clearly desires to fight.  She wants to stand on the same level as her teammates; she wants to be like them.  She wants to grow stronger together with Naruto.  It's not the same case as with Tsunade.  She doesn't want her medical abilities to equal Naruto's and Sasuke's fighting abilities, but her fighting abilities to match with theirs.  Otherwise, she wouldn't be dissatisfied with her abilities, and having insecurities about being left behind again in the latest chapter.  She clearly didn't strive to become a medic out of want, but out of need.  It wasn't her original goal.  She thought it would be something to help her move forward, and not be a burden.  It doesn't mean she went in with a half-@ssed desire to learn.  She accomplished so much, that she's practical called Tsunade's clone after all.  The main point is that she she went in with the determination that she would be able to help Naruto this way, and Tsunade is considered one of the strongest.  It wasn't because she truly wanted to learn, and It shows, with what she truly wants to do, fighting with her teammates on equal level, she can't do it, because her skill set is just different from theirs.  The super strength is blatantly shown to be strong, but it's also blatantly shown that it's useless for Sakura in fights, disregarding Sasori.  It's just power.  There is no technique or fighting style in it at all.  It just doesn't help her in fighting, and it shows in chapter 308 above.  Also, chapters 452 and 632:

452

 

632

 

Then, there's the recent chapter.  It's become blatantly obvious that Sakura can't fight shinobi to shinobi.  Also, Kishimoto purposefully makes it so.  Am I trying to say Sakura is destined to remain a medic? No, because Sakura's character is far from over.  Again, she wants to fight alongside Naruto and Sasuke, to be like them, fighters, and she wants to get stronger along with Naruto.  Is she in the end going to resign herself to a support role and give up on that?  With the kind of manga this is, it's certainly doubtful.  If Gai can surpass Kakashi, Sakura can stand alongside Naruto and Sasuke, or at least Naruto, since Sasuke is temporarily on their side. 

 

Also, again, Kishimoto is well aware of what he's doing.  It's not like he's forgotten anything, especially this.  It shows constantly in the manga with how it links past events to current, for example, the team 7 before/after status in chapter 675.  Honestly, how many expected to see something so far back again?  What I'm talking about was referenced again last chapter.  The plot points regarding Sakura will be addressed in their own time and way.  Kishimoto purposefully had things regarding her stagnate (or move really slow) for a reason.  I don't know how he plans to complete her character at this stage.  Again, I'm only a fan with limited, incomplete knowledge, and can't accurately foresee the future.  I can still speculate though .

 

Sakura has done everything Tsunade can teach her.  She's even achieved something Tsunade hasn't, and that was to save someone close to her.  You could even say Sakura surpassed her by succeeding to save Naruto, in which Tsunade failed in saving Dan.  However, what Sakura has learned hasn't helped her achieve her goals.  Therefore, she is still incomplete and progressing towards her final character resolution.  I'm not trying to say learning medical ninjutsu was worthless.  It's an invaluable skill that allowed her to saved Naruto's life in the end, far from useless!  In addition, one of the reasons she wanted to learn medical ninjutsu in the first place was to support Naruto.  My main point is that Sakura wants to do more than just heal.   Sakura wants to be like Naruto and Sasuke; she wants to fight.  It's been established as early as chapter 54.  What's next for her is to learn more combat skills to help her surpass another of her parallels.  One who is said to be another high ranking kunoichi, and a bad@ss in her own right.  You all know who:

spoiler

Edited by DattebayoXShannaro, 22 May 2014 - 08:27 PM.

[rocci]

@dattebayoxshannaro
Sakura will gain ssm, genjutsu, and(probably) elemental ninjutsu.
Kakashi teach elemental ninjutsu to sasuke and naruto because that's his speciality, that's why I believe kakashi will teach sakura elemental ninjutsu.
I believe she will get a fight in the next arc, but I don't think she can match naruto and sasuke raw power, even if she use hashi DNA and a sharingan.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

@dattebayoxshannaro
Sakura will gain ssm, genjutsu, and(probably) elemental ninjutsu.
Kakashi teach elemental ninjutsu to sasuke and naruto because that's his speciality, that's why I believe kakashi will teach sakura elemental ninjutsu.
I believe she will get a fight in the next arc, but I don't think she can match naruto and sasuke raw power, even if she use hashi DNA and a sharingan.

 

I hope your right about the elemental affinity.  Actually, I hope that your right about another arc in general.  This war has been going on for a long time.  I remember a color cover stating that we were reaching the climax of the war, but that was a few years ago, and it was before Tobi's identity was revealed.  I seriously hope Sasuke is not right after Madara, because that's just too much all at once.  Honestly, let these characters rest for awhile.

[luffyq1]

 

long read

I'm sure Kishimoto's well aware of what he's doing.  He started a plot chain with chapter 40:

 

40

 

Evolved in chapter 236:

236

 

Again, reiterated in chapter 310:

310

 

Then chapter 343:

343

 

Then, more recent, chapter 631:

631

 

Anyway, two things can be discerned from these pages.  One is that Sakura wants to be able to fight together with Naruto and Sasuke (if he's around, and on their side).  She wants to be like them in terms of fighting skill.  She doesn't want to be relegated to the back, only to watch and be protected (Oh, the irony is thick), and be in the front with them. The latest chapter shows it as well.  The second is that she particular wants to be of help to Naruto and grow stronger with him.  This is lampshaded numerous times.  However, things don't add up.  It's what happens in between chapters 310 and 343.  After declaring that they'll get stronger together, what happens next?  Kakashi comes up with training solely for Naruto.  The training helped Naruto to become stronger; Sakura remained the same.  What he says in chapter 343 is bit incorrect.  He's the only one getting closer to Sasuke.  It's proven during the Second Team Seven Reunion, where Sakura can only rely on Naruto to deal with Sasuke.  The very last thing she wanted to do, during that arc for obvious reasons.  This clear distance that grew between Naruto and Sakura can start back here in the Kidan and Kakuzu arc.  Why wasn't there training for Sakura?  The main point was for them to grow stronger together.  However, only Naruto is clearly getting stronger. 

 

It's not like Kishimoto forgot.  It was the chapter before that arc when Sakura re-declared that they will get stronger together.  Also, it's not like Kishimoto scrapped it, because Sakura's desire to stand with her teammates, to be with them in the front, keeps being brought up, hence chapter 632 and recently chapter 676.  It's all in Kishimoto-sensei's mind though; he has something planned.  However, I can't begin to think on what he plans for Sakura, because of my limited, incomplete knowledge, and the fact I don't know what future events entail.  However, the setup is there.

 

From my limited knowledge, I can tell that despite choosing to be Tsunade's disciple, and being a medic, Sakura clearly desires to fight.  As stated in chapter 40, she desires to be like Naruto, Sasuke and Lee, and none of them are medics.  However, it is her own occupation that is hindering her from fighting.  It's portrayed in the second Sasuke Retrieval arc:

chapter 308

 

Here you clearly seen Yamato getting between Sasuke and Sakura, because he knew Sakura couldn't handle Sasuke.  The reason is simple:  she's a medic.  She's not supposed to actually fight, but to stay alive in order to heal her comrades.  It's Tsunade's rules:

1.  Medical Ninja's never give up on treating their teammates as long as they can still breathe.

2.  Medical Ninja's are not allowed to engage in battles.

3.  Medical Ninja's shall be the last to die in the team.

4.  Only those who have mastered Byakugou are the only ones allowed to break the above three rules.

 

Tsunade clearly pursued medical knowledge over fighting.  It was because of the deaths of Nawaki and Dan, that she strove to become a leader in the medical field.  Even Orochimaru lampshades this.  The only reason some fans call her the weakest Kage is because she can't fight as well as Jiraiya and Orochimaru.  Those fans are missing the point.  She didn't strive to become a fighter in the first place.  Her medical achievements are clearly to match the the other two Sannin's fighting ability, not her own fighting ability, which is still impressive considering her field, but not really suited for shinobi battles.

 

Anyway, back on topic, the reason Sakura can't hope to fight as well as she desires at present is because she's a medic nin.  It's so obvious that we all know it.  Why did Yamato get in front of Sakura?  Because medical nins like her aren't supposed to engage in combat.  Why was there no training for her from Kakashi?  Same reason.  Kakashi isn't a medic, and from his perspective, whatever he could teach her would be pointless, because she's not supposed to be fighting anyway.

 

What I do want to stress that may not be as well known is that Sakura clearly desires to fight.  She wants to stand on the same level as her teammates; she wants to be like them.  She wants to grow stronger together with Naruto.  It's not the same case as with Tsunade.  She doesn't want her medical abilities to equal Naruto's and Sasuke's fighting abilities, but her fighting abilities to match with theirs.  Otherwise, she wouldn't be dissatisfied with her abilities, and having insecurities about being left behind again in the latest chapter.  She clearly didn't strive to become a medic out of want, but out of need.  It wasn't her original goal.  She thought it would be something to help her move forward, and not be a burden.  It doesn't mean she went in with a half-@ssed desire to learn.  She accomplished so much, that she's practical called Tsunade's clone after all.  The main point is that she she went in with the determination that she would be able to help Naruto this way, and Tsunade is considered one of the stongest.  It wasn't because she truly wanted to learn, and It shows, with what she truly wants to do, fighting with her teammates on equal level, she can't do it, because her skill set is just different from theirs.  The super strength is blatantly shown to be strong, but it's also blatantly shown that it's useless for Sakura in fights, disregarding Sasori.  It's just power.  There is no technique or fighting style in it at all.  It just doesn't help her in fighting, and it shows in chapter 308 above.  Also, chapters 452 and 632:

452

 

632

 

Then, there's the recent chapter.  It's become blatantly obvious that Sakura can't fight shinobi to shinobi.  Also, Kishimoto purposefully makes it so.  Am I trying to say Sakura is destined to remain a medic? No, because Sakura's character is far from over.  Again, she wants to fight alongside Naruto and Sasuke, to be like them, fighters, and she wants to get stronger along with Naruto.  Is she in the end going to resign herself to a support role and give up on that?  With the kind of manga this is, it's certainly doubtful.  If Gai can surpass Kakashi, Sakura can stand alongside Naruto and Sasuke, or at least Naruto, since Sasuke is temporarily on their side. 

 

Also, again, Kishimoto is well aware of what he's doing.  It's not like he's forgotten anything, especially this.  It shows constantly in the manga with how it links past events to current, for example, the team 7 before/after status in chapter 675.  Honestly, how many expected to see something so far back again?  What I'm talking about was referenced again last chapter.  The plot points regarding Sakura will be addressed in their own time and way.  Kishimoto purposefully had things regarding her stagnate (or move really slow) for a reason.  I don't know how he plans to complete her character at this stage.  Again, I'm only a fan with limited, incomplete knowledge, and can't accurately foresee the future.  I can still speculate though . 

 

Sakura has done everything Tsunade can teach her.  She's even achieved something Tsunade hasn't, and that was to save someone close to her.  You could even say Sakura surpassed her by succeeding to save Naruto, in which Tsunade failed in saving Dan.  However, what Sakura has learned hasn't helped her achieve her goals.  Therefore, she is still incomplete and progressing towards her final character resolution.  I'm not trying to say learning medical ninjutsu was worthless.  It's an invaluable skill that allowed her to saved Naruto's life in the end, far from useless!  In addition, one of the reasons she wanted to learn medical ninjutsu in the first place was to support Naruto.  My main point is that Sakura wants to do more than just heal.   Sakura wants to be like Naruto and Sasuke; she wants to fight.  It's been established as early as chapter 40.  What's next for her is to learn more combat skills to help her surpass another of her parallels.  One who is said to be another high ranking kunoichi, and bad@ss in her own right.  You all know who:

spoiler

Cool. Years of buildup and hints, only to have it executed to where the series feels like it's ending.

 

...sigh

[Don-kun]

OK, what is it with these arguments about Sakura being weak when compared to Naruto and Sasuke. You're actually comparing a normal girl who has had to pretty much do the best she could with normal potential to two guys with hereditary powers? Are you kidding me?

OK, think for a moment. Who has done anything against Madara? The kages? nope. Guy? Maybe, but he (Madara) is still standing. Sasuke by slicing him in half? Well, he somehow pulled himself together again like nothing happened. Who has done anything against Madara, honestly? And you expect Sakura to do what no one else has done so far? Isn't that too much to ask?

Anyway, next point. Surpassing their mentors... Healing abilities are not needed for discussion, since keeping the whole alliance healed is enough for that. And before anybody starts speaking about Naruto, I have three points for you to think about:

1-We're talking about surpassing the old gen, so in this case, we're comparing Sakura and Tsunade. I already stated my point with the comparison of Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke above.

2-The point of Guy being stopped from dying: what the hell could Sakura have done to stop Guy from dying? Provide me a theory on how Guy could have been kept alive with medical ninjutsu before comparing her to the miracle that Naruto did.

3-Restoring Kakashi's eye: same as #2. In fact, which medic in real life has actually created an eye?

Now then, with that settled, think of the following: Now that Sakura has finally shown that she can actually use Byakugou just like Tsunade, guess what Madara did: fly away. So what can she do at the moment? Fight invisible clones being currently busy with Naruto? No wait, let's have her do a miracke jump and blow up the moon. Maybe that would make her get recognized by her teammates and by an enemy who's pretty much a god.

Now, yes, I do admit that Kishi has not been the best at Handling Sakura, let alone a single female character, but what can she do at the moment to demonstrate that she has surpassed Tsunade in terms of raw power? Break the ground and hope that invisible limbo Madaras fall?

Heck, let me throw this point into the table: If we were to give Sakura any of the powers that either Naruto or Sasuke have, considering her near perfect chakra control, how much could she could achieve? But of course, we're talking about a normal girl who is currently trying to create a strategy that would have worked if Madara was in possession of a single limbo, which was imprisoned by Naruto btw, so that would've been no limbo clones normally.

And before anybody brings the reckless argument, do know that out of them three, Sakura was the only one to survive after being reckless because as far as I remember, both Naruto and Sasuke died when trying to attack Madara. Oh, and Sasuke got stabbed and died while she did not.

So, what do you want?

Oh, and Darkrest, are you even reading Naruto? Let me see... Sasuke lost against Haku, againt Oro in the exams, Gaara gave Sasuke a beating... Itachi gave him a single blow and he landed on a wall... Deidara almost killed him if it wasn't for that miracle summon, and he has never lost?

 

 

 

 

Agree Mostly with the last part of your post, but you forget to mention that Karin saved his tail against Danzō, he almost lost against Killer Bee he needed help, he got B*ch slap by A and almost lost but Gaara saved him, Mai almost kill him but White Zetzu saved him, Oniki almost kill him but Tobi saved him, and him alone against Kabuto would be a dead Man.

So yes I agree I don't know witch Manga Dark is reading.

Edited by Don-kun, 17 May 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[rocci]

@don kun
Sasuke (chakra) is weaker than naruto, thus why he need hashi DNA to match naruto bijuu chakra. And maybe a sm(snake or hashi). Maybe sasuke has the strongest eye now, but he still need chakra boost or else he will end up like most of his fight in which he running out of gas.

[Don-kun]

I disagree with this assessment of Nate you have. (Can't really talk for Dark)

 

As far I know, he has addressed negative aspects of the characters equally. In fact, I can point out a few instances where the members of this NS Forum were having double standards and Nate wasn't.

 

People in this forum were bashing on Sasuke due to his asspull-based power-ups and a few were calling Sakura's Byakugo-no-in an asspull as well(when she has trained three years for it), while they called Naruto's new power-up as being "badass" or "cool"(when he got that particular power-up by just talking to the Hagoromo. I'm not talking about his other power-ups such as rasengan or sage mode which he trained). I think Nate and Googleismyfriend were the only people who pointed out the double standards of such claims. 

 

I can also remember how people were bashing Hinata's obsession towards Naruto, and also a little bashing towards Sakura and even going as far to call her a criminal for being in love with Sasuke, while people were calling Karin's attention towards Sasuke as just comedic, or sweet. Nate has addressed the hypocrisy in this as well. 

 

And while people praise Itachi, Obito, Gaara while badmouthing Sasuke, Nate (and Bakeneko chan) has addressed all the murdering these characters have done as evil. He didn't make one better than the other when they have done the same actions. 

 

How come Nate is talking things for the sake of merit and the other people in this NS fandom that are saying all the above hypocritical statements are not?

 

I don't see what 'merit' Nate can gain.

But I do see what 'merit' the other people can gain. (Hinata bashing, Sasuke bashing, Sakura bashing if she is shown to love Sasuke, and SasuKarin praising while bashing SasuSaku are all showing of their desire to have NaruSaku and hold everything against the ones that go against it. 

 

Sorry, but that was not an accurate assessment. 

 

I'm also tired of people bashing Sakura while handwaving the other characters for making the same mistakes, but I don't see Nate doing that. 

This my friend is a great post something I 100% agree with and like you is there one thing I hate doing is hand waiving some characters flaws but displying some heavy criticism on other characters. Hinata, Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke characters have some terrible flaws but some are praise while the others are heavily bashed and since I got punish for engaging with others on the hate on SS but love of SK,  I decided that the best thing for me to do is to be quiet but honestly I will never understand the logic behind loving something bad while hating something similarly bad. 

 

@don kun
Sasuke (chakra) is weaker than naruto, thus why he need hashi DNA to match naruto bijuu chakra. And maybe a sm(snake or hashi). Maybe sasuke has the strongest eye now, but he still need chakra boost or else he will end up like most of his fight in which he running out of gas.

The only thing I can say about Sasuke is that is that he as a very strong plut no jutsu.

Edited by Don-kun, 17 May 2014 - 08:52 AM.

[narusaku256]

Well, he may have the strongest eye and eye powers. But honestly with the latest Bijuudama Rasenshuriken which Naruto shot up in the sky, I personally feel Sasuke's susanoo or any of his powers won't stand against him. Naruto can literally ravage Sasuke now, he can bite him to dust if he wishes to, but he is just too good to do that. Just like NarutoFireFoxUzumaki stated, during VOTE Naruto just went with an intent to scratch Sasuke's headband while Sasuke went with an intent to kill Naruto. Even during the hospital rooftop fight, the damage Naruto's rasengan made to the tank was far far more than what Sasuke's Chidori made. But the downside is that, when Naruto shows some feat like this it is just his enemies who experience this and not the ones who underestimate him or the one's who don't know what he is capable off. For example, Naruto vs Gaara in part 1. If Sakura was to see what lengths Naruto went to protect her, I am damn sure that she would have stopped loving Sasuke at that instant. But that's not the case with Sasuke. Just like James said, he is all talks. He just appears to be strong but in reality is a weaker than Naruto. But call it luck or anything everyone sees Sasuke's power and thinks he is too strong but that's not the case with Naruto and this is my problem from the start. Sasuke gets way too much acknowledgement than Naruto even if both of them are equal. But anyways even with his eye prowess Sasuke cannot stand up against Naruto, let alone the scenario when Naruto and Kurama let in a combined attack. Even Kurama solo is enough for Sasuke, so if Naruto and Kurama team up which they already do, we know on what scale the damage will go. Ramenanmitsu, I know Sasuke is one of your favourite characters and I am sorry if I am being biased, but just as you like Sasuke, I like Naruto. I am sorry for my biased opinion but my only wish is for them to get equal acknowledgement and not greater for one and lesser for the other.

Edited by narusaku256, 17 May 2014 - 08:59 AM.

[FireFox]

Su....Sugoi dis *applauds*!!!!!!! Even for that rod thing about Sakura you said, Hashirama and Tobirama got immobilised with it. So far, only Naruto and now Sakura have been shown to move and keep up their strength when the rods are inside their body. Strange irony.

BOY I MISSED THE DEBATE!!! I would have loved to ravage Sasuke by words! Darn!

There's always a next time  .

[narusaku256]

There's always a next time  .

Yeah, probably

[TouKen4Life3g]

I don't think anyone in here thinks like that in fact everyone would be happy with that , Sasuke had them trough the whole manga let Naruto and Sakura have one .

Naruto just got one for the first time, if not in a long time. I don't mind that much because of circumstance and it did have a buildup since Naruto keep looking like the Sage. Sasuke on the other hand, not because the recent, but because everything else after Itachi's death. Yes, they explained the eye, but I'm referring to any other moments, especially the whole Manda being summoned way too instant, making Goku escaping Namek on time seems not fixated for sake on next saga. To be fair, Sakura's new power was never explained, only show what it can do. It fits in by finally establishing how it works as well as connect to her with the whole control is the key. So long you keep the process hidden, you can squeeze in, such as Minato's abilities since we don't know him at all, so you can give him as many as you can, so long it makes sense.

 

 

I'm so late to this, but I just realized Naruto is still with Sakura's position, but moved up a little to save them from those meteorites.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

People in this forum were bashing on Sasuke due to his asspull-based power-ups and a few were calling Sakura's Byakugo-no-in an asspull as well(when she has trained three years for it), while they called Naruto's new power-up as being "badass" or "cool"(when he got that particular power-up by just talking to the Hagoromo. I'm not talking about his other power-ups such as rasengan or sage mode which he trained). I think Nate and Googleismyfriend were the only people who pointed out the double standards of such claims. 
 
I can also remember how people were bashing Hinata's obsession towards Naruto, and also a little bashing towards Sakura and even going as far to call her a criminal for being in love with Sasuke, while people were calling Karin's attention towards Sasuke as just comedic, or sweet. Nate has addressed the hypocrisy in this as well.

I have adressed it before too but i stopped because it always end up in a fight.
As for asspulls i dont see it as negative because that's Kishimoto's drawing my only problem is that he dosnt make asspulls for Sakura too.
 

SasuKarin praising while bashing SasuSaku are all showing of their desire to have NaruSaku and hold everything against the ones that go against it.

 
Always make me rage.
 

-Now then, here's when I say thay things begin to get unfair: when you make comparisons like this one. When did Naruto learn the Rasengan? Back in part 1. And when did he imbue it with wind element? 2 1/2 yeats later. Same with Sasuke and his Chidori and improving it to use it through his sword and his body. Another thing to keep in mind is the unconventional training methods. Naruto can learn everything faster because of his mass chakra storage along with shadow clones and Kyuubi chakra. As for Sasuke, well, even though we may not have an exact explanation, I say that he was doing nothing more than training.

That was for the sake of plot, Naruto had to appear weak for the great time of the story it even made it seem that he didnt improved at all on the two years and half of training, he took days to learn sage mode and days to learn Kurama mode and hours to learn bijuudama, he progressed so little during the two years and half of training that Kishi give the impression that he would improve way more if he stayed on the village rather than be traveling with Jiraiya.
(Maybe because Kishi's intent was to shown Naruto's training on screen never understood why he didnt showed his training with Jiraiya) it would make more sense.

Also Sakura was stronger than Naruto after the two years and half of training, look at her strenght and feats and compare to Naruto at that time.
Naruto only surpassed Sakura after he learned the rasenshuriken.

@James
I made Nate's words mine too.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 17 May 2014 - 10:56 AM.

[Gravenimage]

Wow James just wow your post was just freaking epic. People have a right to complain and criticise what they don't like, but I think they have a right to stop complaining about it. I said" if you don't like the manga then don't read it, because after all we're reading the manga online for free nobody here is contributing on Kishi's wallet. Yet someone replied to me saying" I shouldn't be telling people what they should do". I'm not but like I said you have the right to complain or you don't. I won't complain not because I like the manga there are things that I don't like but I won't complain because simply it won't change a damn thing. 

 

For example I read a fan fiction and I find something I don't like that ruins my good opinion on the story. What do I do? I just simply click the "back" button and I dismiss it exists, I won't write a complain review and I definitely won't write a flame because a) its immature, b) it will be a waste of time because the author can delete the flame. That's it I'm done.

[FireFox]

Naruto just got one for the first time, if not in a long time. I don't mind that much because of circumstance and it did have a buildup since Naruto keep looking like the Sage. Sasuke on the other hand, not because the recent, but because everything else after Itachi's death. Yes, they explained the eye, but I'm referring to any other moments, especially the whole Manda being summoned way too instant, making Goku escaping Namek on time seems not fixated for sake on next saga. To be fair, Sakura's new power was never explained, only show what it can do. It fits in by finally establishing how it works as well as connect to her with the whole control is the key. So long you keep the process hidden, you can squeeze in, such as Minato's abilities since we don't know him at all, so you can give him as many as you can, so long it makes sense.

 

 

I'm so late to this, but I just realized Naruto is still with Sakura's position, but moved up a little to save them from those meteorites.

Nicely said 4life i agree .  

 

He is ? Then who knows maybe we can expect some NS combo attack with Naruto as her guide since she can't see the limbos of course that is if they don't get trap in the IT next chap .