1040 replies to this topic

[FireFox]

There's much more. That one you're referring is probably the blooper one.

Go here
http://www.youtube.c...feature=mh_lolz

Yes that what it is . So i guess the other part/s are about to be uploaded very soon  ? 

Thanks Jammes i just went there but there is only the blooper part so like i said i guess the other part/s are waiting to be uploaded. BTW the beginning of the blooper the Itachi Sasuke part i fall out of mt chair that was so much true you guys are beasts     ..

[Nate River]

Karin is not a fangirl and that's why SS fans are pissed. Yes, she is a rather exotic sexual character, but also tragic and with a pure soul. She loves Sasuke, and for some reason, Sasuke too, has her in high regards that he, himself went to get her and he, himself sacrificed her which marked Sasuke's lowest point.

I've heard many try to make the case that Karin is not a fangirl. And I would say that if the only standard is about the first five chapters of the series, they yeah, she's beyond that. At least she knows something about him. To me, however, it's a distinction without a meaningful difference. With NS, we can look at concrete events and the overall development and understand why they like each other. We know it goes beyond what we saw from early Ino and Sakura. There is some actual depth there. With Hinata its similar. You can argue that maybe its mistaking hero worship for genuine love, but she sees something beyond, "He's so cool." Karin, I suppose might on par with Hinata, since the one thing that explains why is that recon where he saves her life. At least with Hinata, it's further justified and goes beyond one singular incident. And Naruto doesn't do anything to her that you would think would have her asking "Why'd I like this guy again?"

It's not expanded upon. It's not explored and no reasons arise from subsequent development that would explain why she still likes him. At this point, he saved her life and....she has this unwavering devotion that won't be stopped by even heinous murder attempts. So, even if you want to argue she loves him, there is zippo depth, it's explained entirely by retcon, and has the dubious distinction of having it's subsequent events actually argue against the notion that she has any reason or basis for it. So, she gets beyond chapter 1-10 Ino and Sakura. Whoop-de-doo. It's a real low hurdle to clear. In her limited defense, all of Team Not Seven suffers badly from this problem. Their motivations are so poorly explored that it's a masterful example of what not to do. So, I tend to believe the rumor that they were foisted on him by editors. It would explain a whole lot about how they've been treated.

It's kinda of like how we sit her and constantly wonder why Sakura still has any linger feelings for him. I have no idea why Karin clings to him. But at least we got to see active development and change with SS. I don't care for it as a pairing, but Kishimoto put effort to working with it. Rather than having to rest everything on a retcon. Most of the arguments I see for SK deal predominately with "whether" it will happen. I tend to have some agreement with that part, but the actual basis for why either party is interest is weak.

It is always bizarre to watch people trash SS in one breath while arguing for the virtues of SK. All the arguments of why SS is bad, why it can't happen, or why it shouldn't happen apply to SK.
 
 

She loves Sasuke, and for some reason, Sasuke too, has her in high regards that he, himself went to get her and he, himself sacrificed her which marked Sasuke's lowest point.

There is a vast different between holding someone in high regard and loving them. There are plenty of people I hold in high regard who I have no romantic interest in.

You know, the other day I needed a screw driver to fix my kids toy, so I, myself, went to go and get it. The screw is a specific size, so I need a specific one. It helped and I needed it. If my son had run off with it or thrown it it way, I'd try and stop him. I'd be upset if he succeed, but I don't want to marry my screw driver. Pretty much all her treatment by Sasuke prior to getting out of jail can just as easily explained the same way. He doesn't seek them out originally because he likes them, he does it because he deems them valuable tools. This idea is more consistent with his subsequent treatment of them (ditching two of them in Iron Country and attempting to kill the other). What do you do when you are done with a tool? You put it away. What do you do with one whose liability out weighs its value? You discard or dispose of it. Additionally, that portion is his descent into darkness. Unless people going to try and say then entire thing took place during the Danzou fight, I think it's entirely consistent (and it's about the only thing I'd call consistent when dealing with Team Not Seven) to have a guy who is falling into darkness (who is making a habit of ditching people) to treat people that way. It reflects so poorly on Sasuke, as I sure it's suppose to. I think it was tricksie last chapter who made this point, but even now Sasuke is still behaving this way.

The only thing that I can look at is the apology. I think it's hard to read deep into this as a sign of genuine affection because the whole thing comes across as an attempt to take a thorny issue and move it aside so he can get to other stuff. And, what's more, is that when I compare it to his leaving her bleeding on the forest floor, I know what I think is the more clear sign of how he thought of her from her introduction to that point. The apology looks more like the exception, especially since it comes after his (partial) change of heart. And like my point above, I think we are talking about standards so low that it's hard to be impressed by his actions.

 

Whereas with Karin, he went specifically for her, he gave her for some unknown reason the most OOC smile of his, that we've only seen prior Uchiha massacre [I mean, imagine that!], he awoke a new power from the desire and desperation to save her life and after sacrificing her, he used the most deep apologetic measures to show his sincere regret for what he has done to her.

If I were inclined to argue favorably for SK, I would hope to avoid words like "unknown" and "out of character" when trying to asses someone feelings. But ultimately, that's part of my point as to why the arguments for it are so unpersuasive. Even in NH, I don't have to use those words.

The problem with the "desperation to save her life" when it comes time to put up or shut up a short time later, he doesn't bother. She had value, he protected her. When she didn't he didn't even make the attempt.

And now that I think about it...haven't we, as a fandom, spent many many words downplaying the significance of the 181 "Thank you?" After all, how often did he do that? Subsequent events have made that unnecessary, but I fail to see how his apology is meaningfully different.

 

And besides the fact that they are forced to admit this fact with Karin, they're also forced to admit that Sakura holds Naruto in higher regards than she does Sasuke, and given that their only and strongest argument "But Sakura loves Sasuke!!!" is quite getting destroyed, it's hard... Imagine how hard it is.

Are they? Kishimoto has been very close to vest about the specific nature of her feelings for both Naruto and Sasuke, especially the latter. She cares deeply for both. I think he is moving in the NS direction, but that's based on events that don't necessarily do much to reveal Sakura feelings specifically. I don't think they have to admit what you claim, but I don't think that means much. I do think the writing has been on the wall for some time.

[Kster95]

I do hope Sakura does more than keep Naruto alive, I am happy Kishi is using her but she needs more relevance. But Kishi that doesnt mean you have her sacrifice herself for Naruto....

[MangaReader]

Honestly Sakura would save Naruto and Sasuke if she had it her way... but if it truly came down to the two them on which one to save, the obvious choice should be Naruto for many reasons. While I ultimately think Sakura would choose Naruto, it wouldn't come without conflict of sorts having to weight the two of them on a scale. Hell if Naruto was capable of talking, he would probably ask her to save Sasuke out of how unselfish he truly is when it comes to Sakura, which many NaruHina fans seem to think he isn't (re-sparked by the Minato question; chpt. 631). 

[Kster95]

Honestly Sakura would save Naruto and Sasuke if she had it her way... but if it truly came down to the two them on which one to save, the obvious choice should be Naruto for many reasons. While I ultimately think Sakura would choose Naruto, it wouldn't come without conflict of sorts having to weight the two of them on a scale. Hell if Naruto was capable of talking, he would probably ask her to save Sasuke out of how unselfish he truly is when it comes to Sakura, which many NaruHina fans seem to think he isn't (re-sparked by the Minato question; chpt. 631). 

 

Kishi kinda already has had her choose Naruto by drawing her  with him being taken away far from Sasuke. 

Edited by Kster95, 25 January 2014 - 09:51 PM.

[Broken Figurine]

Are they? Kishimoto has been very close to vest about the specific nature of her feelings for both Naruto and Sasuke, especially the latter. She cares deeply for both. I think he is moving in the NS direction, but that's based on events that don't necessarily do much to reveal Sakura feelings specifically. I don't think they have to admit what you claim, but I don't think that means much. I do think the writing has been on the wall for some time. 

 

The difference for me is that she should hold Naruto in a higher regard given what the two have done, and who has been by her side. I agree though, it's been set up that she does care about both, but the confounding factor for Sakura's feeling on Sasuke is that she has been portrayed not being easy with them. Her expression when thinking about 'the guy she loves' wasn't the most assuring. The fake smile she wore when she said she trusts him? Sakura has mixed feeling about Sasuke whereas she doesn't about Naruto; not at least in terms of trusting his character. So while she cares deeply about both, she's unsettled by one.

 

She hasn't said "I love -x-" without some doubt; she has for Naruto, but that confession like all have been so far, have been dubious. When it comes to Sakura, there are many comments about her love from third parties. "Are you his girlfriend?" "The way you act toward him..." "Sakura, in reality you..." "It is because she loves(?) Sasuke she goes after him?" It's really confusing, because Sai threw in a wrench there in the overall trend of people commenting on Sakura's feelings toward Naruto. Maybe why we're confused about Sakura's feeling is because Sakura is confused herself. Thus why she hasn't made a straight-forward comment about her own feelings. She can't sort them out.

 

Doesn't stop the fact we wonder why she still cares about him; which I think is a general problem when it comes to Sasuke--at least for me. Sakura seems to have the most conflict toward him so far? Well, maybe Sai does but his connection to Sasuke wasn't as strong as it was for other examples so it's easier for him I suppose.

Edited by Broken Figurine, 25 January 2014 - 09:57 PM.

[Kster95]

I am now just thinking of things and I have come to the conclusion that

 

The uchiha clan is kittening stupid

 

Itachi is kittening stupid

 

and Sasuke is kittening stupid

 

Everyone in the Uchiha clan is kittening stupid, I mean everything they have done has led to their own deaths. Really Uchiha clan, start a war with the whole village, I mean your all asking to die. And Itachi, really kill everyone, follow Danzo's orders, DANZO of all people. And Sasuke, he is the biggest fool of all, did you really think your parents wanted you to go down this path, maybe at some point you would say, hmm maybe my mom wouldn't want me to do this....I am sorry but all of this could have been avoided. 

 

/rant lol 

Edited by Kster95, 25 January 2014 - 10:11 PM.

[MangaReader]

 

Kishi kinda already has had her choose Naruto by drawing her  with him being taken away far from Sasuke. 

Mine is the hypothetical that non-NaruSaku fans are bringing up... and we don't really know which way Gaara is going. Unless Madara left the Bijuu absorbing field, then Sasuke could still be in the direction Gaara is going

[Atheck]

Let me rephrase that... Living Female Character.

Why isolate the two from each other? They all exist in the same universe and their exploits have marked their names for future generations to recognise and strive to overcome. Comparisons are made all of the time with those who are already deceased. One of the focal points of the manga right now is Naruto and Sasuke surpassing Hashirama and Madara, two men who have been deceased for many years now.

Even if it's restricted to just the living, I would still vouch for Mei and Shima having better feats than Sakura. But this whole thing is just one unnecessary limiter.
 

Sakura literally owned a city block (maybe a little smaller then that) of the Ten Tails miniature separation creatures with a Single Punch.

Raw strength alone doesn't determine a fight, but techniques of a similar effectiveness have been seen from the two aforementioned characters.

The flaw with this method is that the characters believe that their strength is plentiful enough that it's all they need to defeat their opponents. They waive the possibility to try and improve other things like their speed or long ranged techniques even when it might help them with their primary method of attack. It makes them predictable and linear.

For all of Sakura's destructive power, the sacrificing of her other facets makes her simplistic and manageable to someone who's competent in the things that Sakura lacks.
 

I think you failed to realize the big picture here is Hinata fans over-glorify her, branding her the most useful female character of the current bunch while label Sakura as useless regardless of what she does.

I perfectly understand what you're saying and I agree. There is a stigma associated with Sakura that makes people dispute the veracity of what she's accomplished; and even if there are a few genuine points to be made, they're overshadowed by the tidal wave of negative comments and downplaying spawned from their personal resentment towards her. Hinata just happens to be a scapegoat of sorts that can be used to juxtapose Sakura's "faults" with someone who doesn't have quite as many blemishes. Although there are a great number of fans who genuinely believe that Hinata is superior and more relevant compared to Sakura.
 

Sakura has defeated character onscreen, Hinata has got her ass handed to her every time.

A conditional defeat. Obviously Sakura would hold greater stature than Hinata since she's portrayed more frequently as the "heroine" of the manga. How this plays into their respective combat histories is unknown though since Hinata will never receive the amount of panel time that Sakura does and she's not the official heroine in Kishi's eyes.

Edited by Atheck, 26 January 2014 - 01:33 AM.

[Nate River]

The difference for me is that she should hold Naruto in a higher regard given what the two have done, and who has been by her side. I agree though, it's been set up that she does care about both, but the confounding factor for Sakura's feeling on Sasuke is that she has been portrayed not being easy with them. Her expression when thinking about 'the guy she loves' wasn't the most assuring. The fake smile she wore when she said she trusts him? Sakura has mixed feeling about Sasuke whereas she doesn't about Naruto; not at least in terms of trusting his character. So while she cares deeply about both, she's unsettled by one.
 
She hasn't said "I love -x-" without some doubt; she has for Naruto, but that confession like all have been so far, have been dubious. When it comes to Sakura, there are many comments about her love from third parties. "Are you his girlfriend?" "The way you act toward him..." "Sakura, in reality you..." "It is because she loves(?) Sasuke she goes after him?" It's really confusing, because Sai threw in a wrench there in the overall trend of people commenting on Sakura's feelings toward Naruto. Maybe why we're confused about Sakura's feeling is because Sakura is confused herself. Thus why she hasn't made a straight-forward comment about her own feelings. She can't sort them out.
 
Doesn't stop the fact we wonder why she still cares about him; which I think is a general problem when it comes to Sasuke--at least for me. Sakura seems to have the most conflict toward him so far? Well, maybe Sai does but his connection to Sasuke wasn't as strong as it was for other examples so it's easier for him I suppose.

I think it's a symptom of a bigger issue. Kishimoto has struggle significantly in keep her involved with the core plot. I think if he had been able to do this more consistently many of the complaints surrounding her handling would be addressed, including this one. I know he is trying to avoid direct confirmation of what she feels so he can extend the pairing subplot as long as he can. Getting insight into her thoughts would accelerate this significantly. That is part of the reason I think this is done. Still, part of me wonders if the avoidance comes from a lack of confidence in whether he can effectively portray a conflict within her without doing what he did to Karin. On the other hand, SS has many of the same problems as SK, it just hasn't had anyone do anything as offensive, yet. If you lacked confidence if your ability to do that, then this is the safer move.

Either way, the result it is really hard to look at SS and understand why she still likes him. Of course, much of the main cast suffers from this issue. They, on the whole, have been very tolerate of Naruto doing this. I don't recall anyone ever asking why THEY continue to indulge in it. I think the whole journey would be more satisfying if this issue were dealt with more thoroughly. I always have felt that Naruto's path has been treated as risk free.

I don't know if she could explain it, but that in and of itself could be a damning give away.

[Kster95]

So if Karin sacrifices herself to save Sasuke since she is low on chakra, how do you think he would react to hearing she did that?

[MangaReader]

I perfectly understand what you're saying and I agree. There is a stigma associated with Sakura that makes people dispute the veracity of what she's accomplished; and even if there are a few genuine points to be made, they're overshadowed by the tidal wave of negative comments and downplaying spawned from their personal resentment towards her. Hinata just happens to be a scapegoat of sorts that can be used to juxtapose Sakura's "faults" with someone who doesn't have quite as many blemishes. Although there are a great number of fans who genuinely believe that Hinata is superior and more relevant compared to Sakura.

If your wondering why I singled this out, well it's because I can't really refute your other posts (don't wanna put in the effort either because this isn't really the place for it and it's probably not worth it). So yeah, at least we got this point XD The standards of this manga are impossible to meet sometimes. 

So if Karin sacrifices herself to save Sasuke since she is low on chakra, how do you think he would react to hearing she did that?

Well considering he's all for the greater good (for now)... probably give it a mention and then move on. I can't expect him to get that emotional over the girl he clearly was willing to sacrifice earlier in the manga.

Edited by MangaReader, 25 January 2014 - 10:54 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

So if Karin sacrifices herself to save Sasuke since she is low on chakra, how do you think he would react to hearing she did that?

Sounds like Scryed scenario. Anyway, well that would be shocking. I don't know if that would happen, because maybe I'm still fixated on why she's an Uzumaki, but who knows. Maybe she's recovered enough to heal him at good capacity without losing a life.

[Lodus]

 
Hiruzen is kinda busy dealing with Spiral Zetsu Right now. Remember Shikamaru said that he is the only one who still has the Chakra to fight.

Right, they even said in the magna that he was the only one left, being that he was adv edo tensei. Duh lol I forgot

[Ex-psych75]

This chapter has thought us that character development doesn't make you trip in dire moments.

[Nate River]

Don't derail the thread with that. Make a new thread in the appropriate section or, if there is already one, post this there.

[LuckyChi7]

Thanks for the advice, I've had a busy day, and it kinda drained me. 

[六道仙人]

SS prediction: On the way, Sakura, while she's curing Naruto, will notice her dying Sasuke-kun on the ground. So she has an epiphany and tells to Gaara "Sorry but I cannot leave Sasuke-kun die alone. Can you think to Naruto, isn't? *falls to the ground*
 

NH prediction: Hinata just remembers the Naruto's motto that has accompanied her for long time, "Never give up!". With the full strength of her will, though with almost without chakra, she gets up and quickly reaches Gaara and Sakura. She tells Sakura that she can go to Sasuke's place 'cause she sees her more worried for him that for Naruto while she will think to put Naruto's heart back itself.

 

 

They hope so, more or less...

Edited by 六道仙人, 26 January 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

SS prediction: On the way, Sakura, while she's curing Naruto, will notice her dying Sasuke-kun on the ground. So she has an epiphany and tells to Gaara "Sorry but I cannot leave Sasuke-kun die alone. Can you think to Naruto, isn't? *falls to the ground*
 

NH prediction: Hinata just remembers the Naruto's motto that has accompanied her for long time, "Never give up!". With the full strength of her will, though with almost without chakra, she gets up and quickly reaches Gaara and Sakura. She tells Sakura that she can go to Sasuke's place 'cause she sees her more worried for him that for Naruto while she will think to put Naruto's heart back itself.

 

 

They hope so, more or less...

Well, I said that Hinata will grow wings thanks to Neji, make it to Naruto's location, save Naruto, giving Gaara so much time to rescue Naruto, and Sakura just gain sensor ability and left to go get Sasuke. Yeah, I really said this.

[pumyte]

I give Kishi credit that he made a way to exclude Hinata because she is the kind to run to him, but luckily (YES!) her chakra ran out. Now, she can't move and can only hope the spirit of Neji helps. It's like asking God, only asking someone who you actually know, so this is a good way for her to be dismissed. Now, it's all Sakura and Karin caring about their heroes. I love it. Only one problem....

 

A WEEK BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Wut? there will another break!? Again!? only after two chapters!?