1001 replies to this topic

[Shadow1275]

question

we have new chapter this week?

Nah but we get two chapters next week. That's what word on the street is anyway.

[Sakura_Blossom]

Nah but we get two chapters next week. That's what word on the street is anyway.

We are taking 2 chapters next week? This is serious?

[Verilance]

why does this happen almost every double issue of WSJ!!!??

double issue does not mean two chapters it means the issue is on the stands for two weeks because of Golden Week

[Don-kun]

For now, I agree. This chapter hinted at SK, no matter how much that forgets about all the kitten Sasuke has done. I personally still think that Karin has a plan. Because if she doesn't, all I can say is: She's CERTAINLY a total dumb kitten. I don't care how different she is from Sakura or Ino, forgiving the guy who tried to kill you just like that (even if he apologized and even if she's supposed to sound a little pissed) is just not healthy. What does it say about her if she's totally mad at him and still gropes him while swooning?

She is not a human detector. She can detect chakra type and amount, not emotions like Naruto can. Go re-read, people. Sensors are not telepathic.

Sasuke's sudden willingness to apologize, team up with the kage, forget his psychopathic nature, and Orochimaru's weird-ass support is either a total ass-pull or a brilliant plan in this chapter. I will reserve judgement there.

You slightly misunderstood me. I wasn't trying to come off too patronizing, I'm just genuinely upset and confused I'm seeing all of these SasuKarin/NaruSaku fans coming out of the woodwork.

If you genuinely like it, then that's fine. I come nowhere close to that preference in the least. I almost did or at least was considering it since I believed Karin would have more of backbone with Sasuke and would not forgive him that easily. So imagine my total shock and anger when I see Karin clinging to him in 627 with less respect for herself than Sakura with Sasuke. That totally pissed me off, Sasuke's comical expression aside (which I did manage to laugh at, I admit ). Whether I would become a SK shipper or not was based on their reunion and to be fair, it was not what I was expecting. Her self-respect for herself is seemingly gone and her character is pretty much almost destroyed in that one chapter if she truly meant that. So SasuKarin? I now hate it just as much as I hate NaruHina. Unless Karin is planning something, maybe me opinion will change. Right now I detest it as a ship, it's almost no better than SasuSaku.

Here's something that was bothering me about this. If you ship SasuKarin and yet hate SasuSaku under the grounds of it being an 'abusive relationship' and 'bad heroine light', then you're being very hypocritical. And that's not sitting well with me.

I'm usually very proud to see that most NaruSaku fans do not side-ship SasuKarin. I was relieved over this since it gives us more of a clear distinction from the NaruHina fans who ship SasuSaku. And then I see this after 627. It upsets me but not in a mad way. It just makes me wonder if we're really no better than the NH/SS fans. The majority of them ship each other not because they're invested but because they want the threat out of the way. For SasuSaku, Naruto. For NaruHina, Sakura. For NaruSaku ... Sasuke. Then I see huge amounts of SK/NS fans. It's worrying me. It's almost like after all of these little pairing speed bumps in NaruSaku with NaruHina, we're desperate to the point we'll start side-shipping SasuKarin.

I hope this isn't the case for our fanbase. Point-blank, we don't need to side-ship. Remember that? NaruSaku has a fine, solid basis on it's own without it. I know not all of here are like this and I'm not referring to anyone in particular, I'm just wondering something I probably shouldn't.

I see SK as possible, let me clarify. I get some of your points of view about it being endgame. It's just not likely yet. I just don't believe it will happen nor do I at this point even slightly tolerate the idea.

Holy Crap. You're treating this like he stole her favorite toy. If a good ole' I'm sorry was all it took then I'd be an apology specialist and not a prosecutor. I suppose if that dood I sent to the clink says he "I'm sorry" for screwing a a little girl we'd all be squared away. In the area I live in we have a huge problem with drunk drivers getting on the wrong side of the freeway and killing people. Sorry, for being kittenfaced! Oh okay then, we'll drop the intox manslaughter. Life is not like that. I've seen family members of intox manslaughter offer forgiveness, but it doesn't mean they want him out of jail. I understand that this is a story and not real life, but COME ON, Kishimoto there are limits.

I agree with Romance, I don't think I want to hear the he tried to kill her reason as a basis for why SS can't happen it the fandom is okay with this. It's hypocritical.

When she was at her most vulnerable, he stabbed her and left her to die. When he refused to finish her off it wasn't an act of mercy it was an act of indifference. He threw her to the side like trash and THIS is how she reacts? Sorry, Karin. At least when Naruto forgave Nagato it was for a higher purpose: to end the cycle of hate. I still have all sorts of problems with that, but it wasn't because Nagato showed remorse.

What's the purpose here? She's not doing it for anything other than she likes him. Forget SK, It feels like this was done to get over the painfully obvious speed-bump that interfered with Team Not Seven reforming. For all the words spent talk about what a strong character she is, this screams tertiary character. I had long come to terms that she would forgive him because I knew it to be inevitable, but I figured he at least DO something that would mean he would at least be halfway worthy of it. He shows honesty for the first time in his life for what even in the Naruto universe would probably be considered a cold-blooded attempted murder, but I guess that satisfactory.

As for formulating a plan? To do what? Betray him? For what ends? Just revenge...didn't the paragon of that vice just move on from it only for a side character to take it up now? It's a bit baffling if you ask me.

If fact, if she is such a strong character then this better be a ruse because the author just bypassed a great chance to develop her character and relationship wish Sasuke. Have him earn it or something!

You must be joking. Like I said to KnS. I cannot deny what I see, but I can call it the crap that it is. If this were meant to show some like she described it be one thing, but the whole thing starts with a comedic boot to the head. It's really hard to take the what follows as something serious or memorable.

Again, her forgiveness is not why I have a problem with this. It's the lazy-ass execution.

I'm not sure which is more appalling: the writing or the minimization that's going on.



Who drew the heart? If it was Kishimoto then I can't see this even if I down 20 beers and squint real hard. If it was the editors, I still can't see it, but I might be able to pretend to if I'm drunk enough.



In a sense I suppose. Although, I don't think we'd use "fear" the same way.



I'm at a loss to understand why this is significant. We the audience see it, so we know it happens. There is nothing to suggest Kishimoto is trying to make a distinction. Sasuke hasn't spent much time in public in circumstances that don't involve flinging his sword about anyway.



As for Hinata, I suppose on what is meant by "worse." If it's the clingy behavior, then yes, Hinata is worse because at least there is little doubt Karin is capable of standing on her own without Sasuke. The same is not obvious of Hinata. Saying she is not in the same ballpark as Part 1 Ino and Sakura doesn't say much. It's better as she doesn't swallow EVERYTHING he says as gospel, but Sakura didn't do that very much either in fact I thought that was phasing out as soon as chapter 3. Team Not Seven is basically Sasuke's entourage at this point, and I don't have hope that they'll ever get beyond that. So, I guess she's no different than them at least.



Fooling that level of total incompetence doesn't say much. Speaking of which, have they been fired yet? In addition, that was transitioned too almost immediately in the same chapter. In this one, we have already moved the Hokage's prepping for battle. If she were an important character who drove the plot (like Orochimaru) then I might think this a ruse, but she's not and I trying to imagine how what she did makes any sense in any super secret revenge plan. No one saw her until after she hit Suigetsu, why not just smack the actual offender? Or why not spill the beans in front of Konoha in exchange for being let out instead of having to fool a pair of fence posts...er...I mean highly trained nin..aw screw it...they might as well been lawn gnomes. Isn't there a trope for this? Or why not join the other side?

I think Kishimoto might have done better had he looked into actual prison breaks. Inmates can be very resourceful, but prison guards would not let them into their cell with property they were arrested with. Even if they were crazy. Actually, especially if they were crazy.

This is all what I will said about these post.





For SK fans, I don't like SK and I'm pretty sure here are many fans who don't like this pairing either.
No disrespect towards you but I'm sure you guys don't feel comfortable when a NH or SS fan comes to this site and start talking about their pairing, so a great way to show some respect to your fellow NS fans is not talking about a pairing that many of us also don't like worst when there is a site dedicated you guys.
Link: http://www.narutofor...p...948&page=17

Again I don't want anyone here believing that I've something against you, but most of us chose this site to avoid all the SS and NH talk while trying to avoid debate, guest what many of us see SK the same way we see SS and that will create some replies that you guys will find yourself angry and start acting indifferent towards each other.

So please take my advice and use it.
Link: http://www.narutofor...p...948&page=17

[Sakura_Blossom]

why does this happen almost every double issue of WSJ!!!??

double issue does not mean two chapters it means the issue is on the stands for two weeks because of Golden Week

You just wiped your feet on my hopes

Don-kun I also do not like SK and treat him the same way that negative SS, but I see no reason why people can not discuss here ... If even NH and SS fans can come and discuss, because our own members should not do it together? It would be easier to just ignore it rather than go into confrontation with anyone. I know you do not want to be rude but some people may actually be offended especially when the debate SK has been so practiced lately.

[KnS]

Like I said to KnS. I cannot deny what I see, but I can call it the crap that it is. If this were meant to show some like she described it be one thing, but the whole thing starts with a comedic boot to the head. It's really hard to take the what follows as something serious or memorable.

I don't confuse my low opinion of it with the odds of that occurring. Two totally separate things.

Just to clarify, my earlier posts were about trying to understand the shock and uproar of some fans over Karin going back to Sasuke. I was talking strictly about the "OMG Karin's character is ruined" argument, not the "Kishimoto is sloppy for doing this in this way" argument.

From what I can see, Karin's character has never had any purpose in the story other than to be the girl on Not Team 7, and to serve, glorify, and love Sasuke -- maybe love Sasuke more for who and what he really is than anyone else. And that's it. That's her purpose -- so far, at least, although it's a little late to make her into anything else now. (There's still the unfortunate contrivance of her being an Uzumaki.)

So why is it so surprising that Kishimoto would not suddenly develop her into a shining example of mental health, or even treat her reunion with Sasuke very seriously? I'm not convinced Karin will affect the story a lot -- other than that she may end up an Uzumaki at Sasuke's side.

Beyond that, the Sasuke/Karin reunion and the way it was executed makes little difference to me. I agree Kishimoto isn't taking much care with the whole thing, but since I don't care much for Sasuke anyway....

I do agree this chapter seemed to have a rushed and false ring to it. Was Kishimoto just sloppy? It's possible. But maybe the crap that happened in #627 really doesn't matter much to the overall story. There's no way to know for sure until the end.

[StriderC]

This is all what I will said about these post.





For SK fans, I don't like SK and I'm pretty sure here are many fans who don't like this pairing either.
No disrespect towards you but I'm sure you guys don't feel comfortable when a NH or SS fan comes to this site and start talking about their pairing, so a great way to show some respect to your fellow NS fans is not talking about a pairing that many of us also don't like worst when there is a site dedicated you guys.
Link: http://www.narutofor...p...948&page=17

Again I don't want anyone here believing that I've something against you, but most of us chose this site to avoid all the SS and NH talk while trying to avoid debate, guest what many of us see SK the same way we see SS and that will create some replies that you guys will find yourself angry and start acting indifferent towards each other.

So please take my advice and use it.
Link: http://www.narutofor...p...948&page=17

Wait... I'm trying to understand what you're saying here and I may be wrong but are you telling SK fans not to discuss anything on this forum? If so, then that's really not up to you to decide. I may not like SK personally but even so, as long as their not bashing, who are you to deny them posting here? This site welcomes all respectful individuals, and so if the SK fans are just that, then I personally don't see what the problem is. Some of these people are true SK fans, and if that's the case, it is what it is.

Just because you don't like SK doesn't give you the right to be an ass toward people who do and push them away. We shouldn't have to put down a ship or bash a ship to feel good about this one. The comments you linked were really good, but even so, they didn't bash SK. Saying you dislike or hate a ship isn't the same as bashing. When you bash a ship and the shippers, then that's when the problem arises.

Edited by StriderC, 16 April 2013 - 04:52 AM.

[soraandven]

interesting find on karin's panel so i guess karin isn't as stupid as we think also is it me or was that a sasukarin hug on the next page?

[redragon88]

I get that people have different emotions than me towards characters and try to see the realism of a lot of details. I completely understand why you do so, but honestly if I tried to apply real life morality to this manga I would probably have a constant headache. We could easily begin with how adults constantly train young kids in order to become child soldiers. That's not right in any form.

I'm not mentioning this because I think you guys are wrong in thinking how you think, just trying to give you perspective as to why I don't bother applying realistic thinking for the realm of fiction.

Naruto is not the first fictional work to blur the lines of morality, and certainly won't be the last.

@xxRomanceGirlxx

I do hope you're aware that I've expressed my liking of SK for many months now. So I don't want you to go thinking I'm one of those who suddenly became one because of this chapter.

And as I've said before, I don't just side ship. I like how Karin can retain her hot temper with Sasuke, that's not something you can say about Sakura or Ino. If I just side shipped I would want two characters to be together even if I didn't like them being together, that's what side ship is. But I do enjoy the interactions between Sasuke and Karin (in addition to other hints) and therefore indulge in the idea of their relationship.

This is side shipping: "Sasuke sucks, just pair him up with that horrible b*tch Karin so they don't bother my perfect Naruto and Sakura."

This is me: "I like how Sasuke and Karin interact, and I love how Naruto and Sakura interact. It's great how it would all fit together."

@Nate River

About Karin being angry when she get close to Sasuke, it's all about the wording she uses. In the original japanese she changes it from the standard into one that is meant to express anger. And the heart thing is because she still likes him. The point being that she likes him, so she cooperates, but what he did was still hurtful, therefore she remains pissed.

I understand that it doesn't change your opinion whatsoever about Karin, I really do. I'm not trying to change your mind about Karin, I just want you to at least see how she's truly acting. Do you think Sasuke would've made that scared face if Karin was simply being lovey-dovey?

@The Tax-Man

Karin can detect lies. I think you're trying a little too hard to rationalize her not doing so.

If other sensors can't do it then that's their problem. Karin said that lies show up on charkra flow and that she can see that flow, hence she can notice if a person lies. It's not really rocket science man.

Edited by redragon88, 16 April 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[Dkey]

I get that people have different emotions than me towards characters and try to see the realism of a lot of details. I completely understand why you do so, but honestly if I tried to apply real life morality to this manga I would probably have a constant headache. We could easily begin with how adults constantly train young kids in order to become child soldiers. That's not right in any form.

I'm not mentioning this because I think you guys are wrong in thinking how you think, just trying to give you perspective as to why I don't bother applying realistic thinking for the realm of fiction.

Naruto is not the first fictional work to blur the lines of morality, and certainly won't be the last.

@xxRomanceGirlxx

I do hope you're aware that I've expressed my liking of SK for many months now. So I don't want you to go thinking I'm one of those who suddenly became one because of this chapter.

And as I've said before, I don't just side ship. I like how Karin can retain her hot temper with Sasuke, that's not something you can say about Sakura or Ino. If I just side shipped I would want two characters to be together even if I didn't like them being together, that's what side ship is. But I do enjoy the interactions between Sasuke and Karin (in addition to other hints) and therefore indulge in the idea of their relationship.

This is side shipping: "Sasuke sucks, just pair him up with that horrible b*tch Karin so they don't bother my perfect Naruto and Sakura."

This is me: "I like how Sasuke and Karin interact, and I love how Naruto and Sakura interact. It's great how it would all fit together."

@Nate River

About Karin being angry when she get close to Sasuke, it's all about the wording she uses. In the original japanese she changes it from the standard into one that is meant to express anger. And the heart thing is because she still likes him. The point being that she likes him, so she cooperates, but what he did was still hurtful, therefore she remains pissed.

I understand that it doesn't change your opinion whatsoever about Karin, I really do. I'm not trying to change your mind about Karin, I just want you to at least see how she's truly acting. Do you think Sasuke would've made that scared face if Karin was simply being lovey-dovey?

@The Tax-Man

Karin can detect lies. I think you're trying a little too hard to rationalize her not doing so.

If other sensors can't do it then that's their problem. Karin said that lies show up on charkra flow and that she can see that flow, hence she can notice if a person lies. It's not really rocket science man.

What's done is done regarding Karin's behavior.

Thout the first bolded, actually Kishi kinda criticized adults for creating child soldiers through Hashirama's story. Now it would seem that Hashirama just chose to not allow children to go in battle until they are older and all of that led to 3 shinobi world wars.
And yet I have to agree, it feels like non sense to me for Naruto to become Hokage and at the same time create world peace. It somehow feels that the village as it is now a military institution needs to vanish and instead transform into a civilian one.

Bolded 2: I have to admit after this chapter I did research about the pairing and unwillingly leaning towards it. Still I don't consider myself a SK shipper nor do I like to be accused of side shipping. Mainly because I didn't enjoy how their reunion was handled, and want to see if truly Sasuke shows some affection for Karin. The he didn't called her stupid and annoying then that means he likes her.

Also I get why some are against SK and especially paralleling it with NS because for the entirety of part 1 and a good chunk of part 2 NS wrestled alone against NH/SS.

[Don-kun]

I said NS fans are going to start feeling uncomfortable around each other since no one here likes it when other bash NS, I suppose it will be the same for those who like SK and hearing those harsh words from another NS fan.

That's way I gave them the link and also told them that many here dislike the pairing so just like many uncomfortable with NH and SS, they will also feel uncomfortable about SK creating harsh word towards that pairing something their sympathizer would not take lightly all the times.

So please don't try to twist my word, what I'm trying to avoid is discomfort among NS fans and a little consideration from SK fans.

[AzureWaters]

I also think shipping this and hating SasuSaku at the same time is hypocritical. There's no difference in the pairings besides the way the two girls behave. Right now I'd even give Sakura more benefit, because despite perhaps having feelings for Sasuke she would never behave in the manner Karin just did if confronted with him again.

Edited by AzureWaters, 16 April 2013 - 11:16 AM.

[kirabook]

SK right now is no better than SS in my eyes. It's probably even worse since Sasuke DID nearly kill Karin and she did run back to him in the blink of an eye. If one ships SK, then you really can't use the "Sasuke abused her" or "It sends a bad message about women" argument anymore. Sasuke did much worse to Karin. It is probably worse than SS because Sasuke and Karin did seem close or at least more than Sakura and Sasuke did. Yet, for the sake of his revenge, he stabbed right through her anyway.

"He was insane then."

That's the same argument SS fans make to excuse him for trying to stab her as well.

Now, she had reacted differently and she had that determined attitude and expression that she held in the cell, it would have been loads better. If this isn't some scheme to get back at him at some point and she really has just forgiven him as if nothing happened.... that's horrible.

Before this chapter (and the one where he stabbed her), SK seemed ok I guess. I don't ship anything other than NS (and MK) so it didn't matter either way. I began to lean against it heavily when he nearly killed her (but I backed off when it seemed like she was going to get back at him) But now I'm leaning towards being completely against it for good.

Some say "You shouldn't expect a rational rationale from a character like Karin." Karin was not all jokes, there were moments when she was serious. One of those moments happened when she escaped out of jail. Am I wrong for expecting something other than her drooling over Sasuke only moments after seeing him again? :/

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

SK right now is no better than SS in my eyes. It's probably even worse since Sasuke DID nearly kill Karin and she did run back to him in the blink of an eye. If one ships SK, then you really can't use the "Sasuke abused her" or "It sends a bad message about women" argument anymore. Sasuke did much worse to Karin. It is probably worse than SS because Sasuke and Karin did seem close or at least more than Sakura and Sasuke did. Yet, for the sake of his revenge, he stabbed right through her anyway.

"He was insane then."

That's the same argument SS fans make to excuse him for trying to stab her as well.

Now, she had reacted differently and she had that determined attitude and expression that she held in the cell, it would have been loads better. If this isn't some scheme to get back at him at some point and she really has just forgiven him as if nothing happened.... that's horrible.

Before this chapter (and the one where he stabbed her), SK seemed ok I guess. I don't ship anything other than NS (and MK) so it didn't matter either way. I began to lean against it heavily when he nearly killed her (but I backed off when it seemed like she was going to get back at him) But now I'm leaning towards being completely against it for good.

Some say "You shouldn't expect a rational rationale from a character like Karin." Karin was not all jokes, there were moments when she was serious. One of those moments happened when she escaped out of jail. Am I wrong for expecting something other than her drooling over Sasuke only moments after seeing him again? :/

Yeah, i dont ship SK despite having way more chances to SS but i dont ship.

[Zatheko]

I personally ship SK, started for me when I read a post by someone on this forum a long time ago (can't remember who) but they talked about SK being like a darker side of NS, like Sakura watching Naruto's rise to greatness and Karin watching Sasuke's fall to darkness, something about that appealed to me. Also reading the manifesto persuaded me a lot as well.

I can see a lot of people dislike SK and I understand that, but hey to me Karin is not Sakura so because I don't like Sakura with Sasuke doesn't mean I should dislike Karin with Sasuke.

Just my opinion on the matter

Edited by zatheko, 16 April 2013 - 11:40 AM.

[HauntedCake]

Ns has always stood alone with no real allies. NH/SS just teamed up on us.

SK is a first chance for us NS fans to have allies as small as they may be.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Ns has always stood alone with no real allies. NH/SS just teamed up on us.

SK is a first chance for us NS fans to have allies as small as they may be.

>Implying that the majority of the NH fans are not SS fans

[Gravenimage]

Ns has always stood alone with no real allies. NH/SS just teamed up on us.

SK is a first chance for us NS fans to have allies as small as they may be.

Never saw it that way. But you're right only difference NH needs SS to be canon and vice versa I don't think its the same for NS and SK.

[redragon88]

I personally ship SK, started for me when I read a post by someone on this forum a long time ago (can't remember who) but they talked about SK being like a darker side of NS, like Sakura watching Naruto's rise to greatness and Karin watching Sasuke's fall to darkness, something about that appealed to me. Also reading the manifesto persuaded me a lot as well.

I can see a lot of people dislike SK and I understand that, but hey to me Karin is not Sakura so because I don't like Sakura with Sasuke doesn't mean I should dislike Karin with Sasuke.

Just my opinion on the matter

Oh, that was me actually. I'm so glad someone understood how I felt about it.

And I agree with what you say about Karin not being Sakura. It's fine to hate Karin with Sasuke based on one's dislike of their relationship, but it's pretty shallow to dismiss it by saying that is just another version of SasuSaku. It is not.

Hate SasuKarin as an individual pair, not because you want to associate it with another pair. How Karin and Sasuke interact has a completely different vibe than how Sakura and Sasuke do, but people dismiss those differences just because Karin also likes Sasuke, therefore that makes her a copy of Sakura. Seriously?

Maybe I should say that Lee's relationship with Sakura it's the same as Naruto's since they both like her, right? But it is not, and neither are the relationships of Karin and Sakura in relation to Sasuke.

[Zatheko]

Oh, that was me actually. I'm so glad someone understood how I felt about it.

And I agree with what you say about Karin not being Sakura. It's fine to hate Karin with Sasuke based on one's dislike of their relationship, but it's pretty shallow to dismiss it by saying that is just another version of SasuSaku. It is not.

Hate SasuKarin as an individual pair, not because you want to associate it with another pair. How Karin and Sasuke interact has a completely different vibe than how Sakura and Sasuke do, but people dismiss those differences just because Karin also likes Sasuke, therefore that makes her a copy of Sakura. Seriously?

Maybe I should say that Lee's relationship with Sakura it's the same as Naruto's since they both like her, right? But it is not, and neither are the relationships of Karin and Sakura in relation to Sasuke.

Yeah I probably saw it from you then haha, I really liked the comparison of the pairings like that. Thanks for letting me know it was you

I agree that NS and SK should be treated as individual pairing, Karin imo acted differently around Sasuke than Sakura did in part 1, Sakura was NEVER herself around him but Karin was always acting like herself, sure she may have shown a different side when they were alone but karin always kept her personality as her own when around sasuke.

Lol at the lee part