156 replies to this topic

[Nee-sama]

Such a thing would be more defensible, but for the tendency of Naruto super-villains to suffer from stroke-level brain farts almost every time they fight, especially in Part 2. Remember Kakuzu?

Uh, what? Kakuzu didn't suffer from a brain fart. Naruto out-witted him, plain and simple.

I disagree. Ed's argument is essentially the equivalent of "it's not fair." That Sasuke's or anyone else's power-up occured too quickly or were just plain unreleastic doesn't justify making the same error again just to even things out. That Naruto was way behind doesn't make his progress anymore releastic nor does the fact that Sasuke got a the Mangekyou they way he did (which I think made no sense). Making the same error again doesn't make up for the previous one. By your logic, Sakura is entitled to one no matter how she obtains it or what it is so that she doesn't look to weak or too far behind.

It's not an error. Naruto was "way behind" at the start of part 1 too, if you remember, and at that time he was the one who showed the fastest improvement. It's part of his character development, whether you like it or not.

Things like this are why I don't like the Kage Bunshin training method. There is no limit and Naruto can use it ad nausem, to the extent that I fear that by the end of the series Naruto and Sasuke's abilities will be so disproportiate to everyone else that the only ninja capbable of beating them are themselves, just like the Super Saiyins were.

By the end, not even Sasuke should be able to defeat Naruto. This is also part of his development, imho.

One thing I loved about Part 1 is that Kishimoto left the impression (in the first arc at least) that even though Jounin were very skilled ninja, a genin was still capable of beating them if they were careless . There was definite ability gap, but nothing that ever seemed insurmountable. The more Kishimoto ups the ante power wise the less true this seems to be.

This is pure biased opinion and frankly I don't see how you came to that conclusion.

I love the coment on Konan as 'post-it girl.'

Thank you^^

[KungFuTruffle]

I can understand why there would be complaints about Naruto's growth, but I, personally, think it's about damn time. Naruto's been shafted for most of Part II, with his only fights so far using the Nine-Tails chakra. I would much rather see Naruto Punch Out Cthulu with Sage chakra, than with that stupid fox.

And most of you guys are focusing purely on Naruto, and not on anything else.

Tsunade used her Genesis Rebirth seal to give chakra to Katsuya. In other words, she just got that much closer to dying of old age. Am I the only one that sees this as an important plot point?

As well, we got to see various Hyuuga members at work. And guess what? Contrary to Fan Dumb, they seem to be quite kind and caring people, as well as protective of the village and it's inhabitants. Rather than the cold emo clan of repressed sexual urges and MASS HATE fanfiction authors have been writing them as for the past decade.

Not only that, but we got a look at how Pain is regenerating his bodies, saw the villages reaction in general to what Pain just did, and got a good look at what happened to the Rookie 9.

I don't care what other people say, I think this chapter was a rousing success, not only for the upcoming fight, but for all of the plot points it hit on the head in less than 20 pages.

[Derock]

All I have to say is this:

KICKASS! Naruto is here!!!

On a second side note, shouldn't the two shinobi from thunder country/villiage be showing up any time now?

You mean three Cloud ninja (Samui, Karui and Omoi). And yes, where are they?! (Unless it takes time for them to get there from Thunder to Fire Country).

[FullmetalNinja25]

There are some idiots people that are saying that Naruto not going berserk and unleashing Kyuubi when he saw the bad shape Konoha is in is OOC....

Edited by UzumakiEdward85, 31 December 2008 - 12:00 AM.

[Illmatic]

There are some idiots people that are saying that Naruto not going berserk and unleashing Kyuubi when he saw the bad shape Konoha is in is OOC....

Because using the Kyuubi like an angry 4 year old is the most logical thing to do....

They forgot theyre reading the manga not a damn fanfiction

[FullmetalNinja25]

Because using the Kyuubi like an angry 4 year old is the most logical thing to do....

They forgot theyre reading the manga not a damn fanfiction

QFT.

[Kyuudaime]

There are some idiots people that are saying that Naruto not going berserk and unleashing Kyuubi when he saw the bad shape Konoha is in is OOC....

Right, because they expect him to never grow up.

[FullmetalNinja25]

Right, because they expect him to never grow up.

Exactly.

[Nate River]

Uh, what? Kakuzu didn't suffer from a brain fart. Naruto out-witted him, plain and simple.

Kakuzu is a ninja with decades of experience, battled the first Hokage and survived (the same First who beat Madara), is supposed to a S-Rank missing-nin, and is able more than hold his own in a 3 on 1 battle, that included one of Konoha's best, Kakash a genius himself I might add. However, he falls for a basic fake out and isn't aware enough to watch his own back?

Sorry, I don't buy it. A lot of people don't like this fight.

It's not an error. Naruto was "way behind" at the start of part 1 too, if you remember, and at that time he was the one who showed the fastest improvement. It's part of his character development, whether you like it or not.

Two things:

(1) You seem to misunderstand what I'm calling a mistake. Naruto being way behind isn't it. I'm referring to unrealistically fast skill development, which was the subject of Ed's post. That others characters received it doesn't some how make Naruto's any more realistic nor does the fact that Naruto was way behind when he received it. If you believe it's unrealistically fast, it remains so regardless who else received it or Naruto's strength at the time. How does doing the same thing that was a problem before no longer a problem just because he has already done it before?

My objection with Ed's statement was not the speed of Naruto's development, but his claim that because other characters got it then so should Naruto.

(2) I'm aware that it is part of his character development. Part of Sasuke's included the acquisition of the Mangkeyou despite is making, at best, a limited amount of sense and the formation of a Team and emphasis on the concept despite numerous declarations that his relationship with his previous one held him back.

What happens in the manga happens regardless of whether I or anyone else likes it or not, but I'm not going to refrain from stating my opinion like anyone else just because it doesn't comport with the majority. If this is your stance, then don't complain when someone else's development isn't to your liking. It'll be part of their development whether you like it or not.

By the end, not even Sasuke should be able to defeat Naruto. This is also part of his development, imho.

This misses the point. I wasn't making on argument on which one of the two would be stronger.

This is pure biased opinion and frankly I don't see how you came to that conclusion.

What do you think your conclusion is? Virtually everything stated in this thread is biased opinion. Your's is no different.

[FullmetalNinja25]

While we can appreciate where you're coming from Nate looking for logic in a Shounen manga is asking for a headache. Just read and enjoy.

[Kyuudaime]

Of course I was stating my opinion, perhaps I should use a better word choice.

While we can appreciate where you're coming from Nate looking for logic in a Shounen manga is asking for a headache. Just read and enjoy.

This I have to disagree with, while giant toads, cutting waterfalls in half with bare hands, ect. is unlogical, I would like it to make sense.
And yet, I also want this manga to end soon, so I don't care.

[Nate River]

Of course I was stating my opinion, perhaps I should use a better word choice.

This I have to disagree with, while giant toads, cutting waterfalls in half with bare hands, ect. is unlogical, I would like it to make sense.
And yet, I also want this manga to end soon, so I don't care.

Sorry, I wasn't referring to when I said that. I should have been clearer.

[Mik3]

After that entrance naruto is just missing the red S on his chest and a phone booth

[FullmetalNinja25]

After that entrance naruto is just missing the red S on his chest and a phone booth

XD

[Sora no Kitsune]

Well to what Nate said, Kakazu wasn't out smarted. He does have alot of experience in the feild. He would never, under normal circumstances, have been beaten that easily.

HOWEVER, you have to remember that to him, Naruto and his gang were nothing but "little kids" to him. He saw them as lesser beings, and thus, he lowwered his gaurd, not thinking that such ninjas could possiblly beat him. THAT was his mistake. By taking Naruto lightly, he let his guard down drasticlly and wasn't thinking as he would during a fight he would have thought as evenly matched. Naruto faked him out due to his lazyness and lack of concentration, not because he had a "Brain Fart".

[talesoffireemblem]

Sakura's seen him fight a bunch of times. During the Chuunin exam he fought Orochimaru, Neji, Kiba. And in part two his fight with Orochimaru where he popped 4 tails. Just naming those off the top of my head.


BTW F-ing Awesome chapter! I can tell where Kishi gets his Anime/Manga roots from. ^^

Sorry, I meant that this would be the first time in part 2. I don't really count the fight between four-tailed Naruto and Orochimaru, I mean she saw him in four-tails mode but she really didn't see him actually fight Orochimaru.

Tsunade used her Genesis Rebirth seal to give chakra to Katsuya. In other words, she just got that much closer to dying of old age. Am I the only one that sees this as an important plot point?

Actually, I think you may be right. The fact that Kishimoto took the time to point this out means that it should be important later on.

Well to what Nate said, Kakazu wasn't out smarted. He does have alot of experience in the feild. He would never, under normal circumstances, have been beaten that easily.

HOWEVER, you have to remember that to him, Naruto and his gang were nothing but "little kids" to him. He saw them as lesser beings, and thus, he lowwered his gaurd, not thinking that such ninjas could possiblly beat him. THAT was his mistake. By taking Naruto lightly, he let his guard down drasticlly and wasn't thinking as he would during a fight he would have thought as evenly matched. Naruto faked him out due to his lazyness and lack of concentration, not because he had a "Brain Fart".

I think that it was a combination of him facing a brand-new technique that no-one had ever encountered before (rasen-suriken) and him happening to overlook some minor details (by completely ignoring Naruto's distraction clones).

Edited by talesoffireemblem, 31 December 2008 - 06:00 AM.

[FullmetalNinja25]

Well it looks like those of us that predicted Pein would kill Tsunade (me included) were wrong, though as previously mentioned she used her genesis rebirth jutsu which shortens her lifespan.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Ya know, I hope we get to see a full extent of what Naruto's training allows him to do soon. We know he formed a Rasengan really quick to take out just one of Pain's bodies. But will it be enough to drive him away?

As for Samui, Kamui, and Omoi, I figure it'd take time to get from the Land of Thunder to the Land of Fire as well.

Anyhow, I think it is nice to see Naruto grow into his destiny even more so, guys, especially since he has been focusing on his own power since the revelation with Tenzo/Yamato. I'd like to think as of now that he's caught up to Sasuke, considering too Sasuke's had lots of leaps and bounds due to whatever it is he would allow Orochimaru to do to him for the sake of power, even his acquiring the Mangekyo Sharingan, which has proven to be a drawback, and even that hasn't been enough.

I look forward to seeing Naruto's fight with Pain, to see how well he holds off one of the strongest members of the Akatsuki.

Bryon

[Nee-sama]

Predictions for the next chapter anyone?

What I hope to see.. --Click here to view--

1. Naruto shows off the move he's been practicing in secret.
2.Sakura and all the villagers line up at the edge of the basin-that-was-Konoha to watch the show.
3.The contents or the meaning of that scroll!
4.What happened to Konohamaru?
5.Kakashi's conversation with his father wraps up.
6.All those people heading towards Konoha arrive in time to see Naruto kicking @$$.
7.Naruto destroying Pains bodies only to realize the real one is far off hiding somewhere.

This fight will probably go through the up and down sequence like usual where it appears Naruto has the upper hand then Pain does something to take the upper hand, then they glare each other down for a while and repeat until one guys ultimate move outdoes the other guys ultimate move. I think in order for Pain's attacks to have any affect he's going to have to focus all his chakra into one body again. BUT when Naruto allegedly killed demon realm I noticed God realm still had that very unconcerned but kinda irritated look in his eyes. He can probably still use that body (like he did with Kakashi, bringing it in to block his Raikiri) as a shield, projectile, or just use the robot parts for a barrage attack.
Whatever the outcome of the next few chapters, I expect killing Pain for good is going to take a long, long time.

Naruto vs. Kakuzu --Click here to view--

Why don't a lot of people like this fight? I think Naruto DID outsmart the guy, with his century of experience and all. He chose to ignore the distraction and went right for the "obvious" target holding the jutsu. Well, this is exactly what Naruto was counting on.. Even his own teammates were fooled by it.
Kinda makes me think of shougi, or chess, where you can use a distraction move that threatenes an important piece and when the opponent moves to save that piece you take out his Queen!
And yeah zman, he really was underestimating Naruto, which Naruto was aware of, which is what made his feint feasible.

[catsi563]

thought on the chapter.

1) the scroll on his back. A henged shadow clone staying still and gathering natural energy for him?