441 replies to this topic

[Ausakura]

Whew! Finnaly!

 

Do you guys remember that Bee once survived, with the hole Hachibi within him, doing the same thing that Hachibi did now?

I don't know if Hachibi got absorbed too, but the Kyuubi is gone all right! Or so, it seems... But what it asked to Gaara? 

[Atheck]

Naruto should still have Sage Mode available to him. There is no question that Kurama constituted the majority of Naruto's power and ability, without that chakra beast he wouldn't have gotten as far as he has, but there's still potential with Sage mode by itself. Theoretically, he could fuse with Fukasaku and Shima now. Incorporating the arsenal of the two frog sages into his own would make Naruto very powerful in his own right. The only issue with this is that the summoning process for the two sages specially requires creating a blood contract on your face. It's unknown if Naruto was ever informed of this stipulation. 

 

Either way, Naruto's place in the rankings just took a very serious blow. For many people it's arguable if he would even be worthy of entering into the top 10 now. He won't be able to continue fighting in the current condition that he's in. Not without being easily overwhelmed by Madara. This may have just turned into a solitary mission for Sasuke. He's the most powerful shinobi that the Alliance has to offer next to Naruto (and possibly BM Minato). If he doesn't stop Madara now, everyone is going to die. 

[sushi.]

Finally something happened.

loved Naruto's face in the end.

 

lets hope Sakura-chan catches him bridal style

I at least think she'll save him. Or Minato, or both.

[Ausakura]

First panels of the next chapter will be everyone's reactions.
" D: !!"

I want at least Sakura screaming Naruto's name.

[pumyte]

so when the next chapter will come out (・。・)?

[LuckyChi7]

so when the next chapter will come out (・。・)?

 

It'll be a long wait, but January 15. 

[harry4e]

So basically Kishi just gave everyone the gift of death on Chrismas? Merry Christmas Everybody, I'm killing Naruto!!!.

 

OK so he won't die, or won't stay dead, afterall he's the main charactor in the Manga named after him so who he'll be ack somehow.

 

I have no idea how Madara can be defeated without Naruto unlocking the power of the Sage himself. even without the Juubi, Madara is on a another level, making Obito look like a amateur...and it took the entire combined army to defeat him, and even then it was partially because he was having doubts. Now this army is exhausted and the enemy is even more stronger, knows how to use the Juubi better and the Zetsu are back. Kishi's going to have to pull something major out of the bag for this next battle.

 

I'm actually surprised we got a chapter this week, I thought this week SJ was on a break and we'd get a chapter next week and then another break and then the manga will continue like normal. .

 

Edit: So this week was supposed to be a break, but the chapters got sent out earlier than usual, so it means there will be no chapter on the 1st or the 8th right? Talk about leaving things on a cliffhanger and  now we have to wait three weeks for the next chapter.

 

I'm not sure if next chapter I want to see a scene where Sakura attempts to sacrifice her life to save Naruto or not...I'm guessing she will attempt it, unless something else happens.

Edited by harry4e, 25 December 2013 - 04:53 PM.

[redragon88]

Either way, Naruto's place in the rankings just took a very serious blow. For many people it's arguable if he would even be worthy of entering into the top 10 now. He won't be able to continue fighting in the current condition that he's in. Not without being easily overwhelmed by Madara. This may have just turned into a solitary mission for Sasuke. He's the most powerful shinobi that the Alliance has to offer next to Naruto (and possibly BM Minato). If he doesn't stop Madara now, everyone is going to die. 

 

When it comes to raw power Naruto has most definitely gone down, but we all know that being a ninja is more than just that.

 

I think we should wait and see what happens in the future. Sometimes we assume thing are a certain way only for us to be proven wrong. Those people that claim Naruto wouldn't even be in the 10 top without Kurama could be in for a surprise. Let's not forget that on his own his chakra pool is still pretty big, and being the #1 most unpredictable ninja is always a plus. I'm sure Naruto could match the Kages even as he is now, but only with the right battle plan of course.

 

Don't you think you're overselling Sasuke? He's pretty powerful, but I'm sure the Kages could match him depending on the strategies. I think even Naruto could have a shot at matching Sasuke without Kurama if he could come up with a proper plan of attack instead of his usual "Leeroy Jenkins because I have bijuu power".

 

If Sasuke had a perfect Susanoo then I'd say he's clearly on a league of his own, but he's not there yet. He might be getting there given his ability to create armor for Kurama, but I'll have to see him battle on his own before I give final judgment.

[T XD]

Naruto can be a challenge without Kurama. He has big chakra pool, Sage Mode and, as a main character, he has abilities and techniques that can be difficult for the opponent. Pulling out a powerful ability or jutsu all of a sudden with knowing how he got it in brief... is available.

 

If Kishi plans for Naruto to fight without Kurama, he's going to use what he got and it won't be easy. Maybe he'll get help also like before.

 

By the way, what Kurama told Gaara is something related to Naruto concerning after Kurama being extracted from him or how to stop Madara's control on the Bijuu if he ever had control over them or even how to stop his attempt at it before the Bijuu are under his control.

Edited by T XD, 25 December 2013 - 05:25 PM.

[Inferno180]

Again I'm saying this:

Sakura isn't going to give up her life for naruto, no one on team 7 is going to die.
-naruto has plot armor in stamina and that fight with Sasuke
-sakura has an important role with team 7, mainly that future issue with Sasuke and not trusting him, narutos lost kurama but sakura isn't going to die anytime soon.
-Sasuke obviously going to fight with naruto later.

Sakura isn't going to revive naruto, nor somehow use chiyos technique. Unless sakura learned it offscreen, it just makes no sense, we all know naruto is going to live, how many forms of plot armor would need to be breached to kill naruto? We had uzumaki stamina, the gold and silver brothers acting as a substitute for the ten tails, naruto himself is the protagonist. Sakura isn't somehow going to learn or even need to use chiyos ones own life reincarnation just to bring back naruto just to later be brought back by the rinnegan maybe by obito again. None of this makes sense.

The setup for next chapter is simple,

Naruto lost kurama, near death, we either get a scene with his friends and gaara (being in the closest proximity) in grave concern for him and bee, there is a good chance we get a sakura or minato interaction scene, both sakura and minato have importance in this situation, sakura being the one who learned of this horrible aspect by Chiyo long ago now seeing the event, minato well naruto is his son. Yes tsunade is a better healer but the setup is more appropriate for sakura, it could be very emotional for her, a suspense moment for everyone (even though we know naruto is alive, seriously if sakura-Kushina was a high factor only good readers caught onto and it was fairly obvious, then what's with all this talk about naruto dying or sakura sacrificing herself for naruto? There's no need, plot armor saves naruto, gives sakura and minato reason for focus in the situation, we knew for a long time why naruto would not simply die if he was caught by the akaskuti, now that kurama is yanked out, well this is exactly what is happening, it's only been a possiblity for well over 100 chapters)

Otherwise our focus next chapter after 3 weeks is more of Madara boasting, the allaince worrying about what to do next, more with Kakashi, minato, obito, and black zetsu, or the reveal of what kurama told gaara.

Otherwise the turning point if this fight is going to be fast, you know why, Madara had his screw up moment, that one action he had of letting kurama talk to gaara, this is the start of the future events that will turn the fight on him and let naruto and friends win. It's desperate, and for all reasons hopeless for the heroes right now, as the obito fight was more about unison and will, this fight in in that classic build up the villian mode, then they strike the hero hard, then we get that DBZ effect where the hero gets up after that strike and we move onwards with a little back and forth till the hero wins.

Kinda like the last fight:
Obito becomes jubbito and runs wrecklessly
Obito gains control of the jubbi
Naruto, Sasuke, and minato are pushed back minato loses his arm
No one can touch obito with ninjutsu
Obito decimates hiruzen and he takes a long time to recover
Naruto burns out of tailed beast mode
Naruto and tobirama discover natural chakra works on obito but it's not strong enough
Naruto and minato teleport everyone to safety with the full kurama chakra
Kurama tells naruto to meld his chakra with sage mode
Obito unleashes the full form tree of the ten tails
The tree if life kills many people and almost shikamaru
Sasuke and jugo combine powers to attack obito with nature energy with sage tailed beast mode naruto
The rest of the allaince faces the tree
Naruto and Sasuke are pushed into a corner, they combine tailed beast mode and sussano to fight obito one last time
Naruto calls on his friends to break obitos shield in a unison attack and their tailed beast, sage mode, sussano sword breaks obitos sword, harming him
Naruto and friends pull the tailed beasts out of obito while bee get the 8 tails and gaara the 1 tailed chakra.
Obito is beaten then this turns to the current situation reviving Madara.

See the back and forth? We will get something like this in the coming chapters next year.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I really wonder what Kuruma told Gaara. It could be something to say as a farewell, it could be something to change this tide of war, it could be something that will benefit greatly for this war, it could be anything. That is like the key for now. If it's something for the war, then it all lies on Gaara.

 

If Naruto is up and going, even weak, then you can really say this is the last battle of the war. Naruto will lose his stamina and will reach the very limit, so this is going to be an interesting route. Kishi is really challenging the audience on how everything is going to end Madara. I think he did screw with us in that JF interview. Right now, he wants us to keep guessing how. If Naruto is alive but weak, the guy needs to recover and quick. Something tells me that Zetsu from Obito will spill out that the Bijuus are extracted, which Minato will learn that Naruto has lost Kuruma. This could force him to go to Naruto asap as Kakashi takes care of Obito. So many speculation, I'll just stop here.

[Atheck]

When it comes to raw power Naruto has most definitely gone down, but we all know that being a ninja is more than just that.

I think we should wait and see what happens in the future. Sometimes we assume thing are a certain way only for us to be proven wrong. Those people that claim Naruto wouldn't even be in the 10 top without Kurama could be in for a surprise. Let's not forget that on his own his chakra pool is still pretty big, and being the #1 most unpredictable ninja is always a plus. I'm sure Naruto could match the Kages even as he is now, but only with the right battle plan of course.

It's not just raw power, it's every physical stat that a shinobi is judged by. Strength, speed, stamina, taijutsu... Kurama was Naruto's trump card. One which has carried him throughout the majority of battles that he partook in. That's how Naruto was able to compete with the likes of Madara and Hashirama.

True, there is more to more being a shinobi besides overwhelming destructive power, but at the same time, strategic adaptability and astuteness can only carry you so far before you need to balance intelligence with physical might and force. That's why Shikamaru isn't being sent out into the front lines to confront Madara.
 

Don't you think you're overselling Sasuke? He's pretty powerful, but I'm sure the Kages could match him depending on the strategies. I think even Naruto could have a shot at matching Sasuke without Kurama if he could come up with a proper plan of attack instead of his usual "Leeroy Jenkins because I have bijuu power".

I'm basing my opinion on feats previously shown in the manga. Given what we know, Naruto has proven himself to be incompetent when handling genjutsu alone. It just so happens that Sasuke frequently uses genjutsu tactically for feints with the intention to follow up on it with a physical attack (Deidara and Danzo) or he uses one to outright incapacitate his opponent (Sai, Killer Bee, C). Kurama was his only countermeasure to use in nullifying genjutsu. Without that key advantage, there's nothing to indicate that Naruto could break himself out of genjutsu.

Then there is also the matter of Amaterasu. SM Naruto is very nimble, but he hasn't shown the level of speed that would be necessary to dodge the flames if Sasuke were to glance at him (it seems V2 shroud is the minimum level of speed necessary to dodge). Sasuke is no slouch when it comes to movement speed either. They're probably equal with each other in terms of speed.
 
SM Naruto might be more comparable to Hebi Sasuke.
 

If Sasuke had a perfect Susanoo then I'd say he's clearly on a league of his own, but he's not there yet. He might be getting there given his ability to create armor for Kurama, but I'll have to see him battle on his own before I give final judgment.

It's almost assured that he has Perfect Susanoo now. Naruto's equivalent, the BM, was taken away this chapter. Without it, he's at a severe disadvantage. This final variation of Susanoo was resistant enough to withstand an enormous Jinton attack. The Odama Rasenshuriken probably wouldn't fare much better.

Let's not forget that Naruto himself admitted that Sasuke was on another level and that he would need Kurama to defeat him.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I feel like something big will happen to Naruto in terms of power. I feel like Bijuu's foreshadowing on him being RS 2nd is going to play huge here. After all, they are still in battlefield.

[T XD]

I feel like something big will happen to Naruto in terms of power. I feel like Bijuu's foreshadowing on him being RS 2nd is going to play huge here. After all, they are still in battlefield.

Same here. Him being the second Rikudou Sennin grants the big possibility for it to play a role now in this critical condition. Either it will be played out in this war or it's left for the final battle against Sasuke.

Edited by T XD, 25 December 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[redragon88]

@Atheck

 

I get what you mean with Shikamaru, but you have to remember that Naruto still has a lot of power on his side even without Kurama. Naruto isn't on Shikamaru's level of intellect, but he isn't a moron (at least not when he's focused).

 

Naruto has a nice combination of power and unpredictable smarts that makes him enough of a threat on his own. That's why it's important to not underestimate him. Not to mention he's the main character so there's that plot advantage.

 

Also, I know you have certain scenarios in your head about how Sasuke would deal with opponents because this or that happened in the manga, and don't get me wrong, I'm not objecting at all to them, just give yourself a little wiggle room to be wrong. Sometimes things go differently and events can lead to results you didn't see coming.

 

I'm pretty sure you've been wrong in certain speculations about how characters would act in fights or situations, so just keep it in mind. We like to think that because someone has this technique or that ability things most go a certain way, but sometimes it's not so.

 

And if you want to believe Sasuke has perfect Susanoo already that's fine, but don't pass it as fact until it's proven to be such. I don't see how he could have it now, otherwise he would've tried to smack Madara with it instead if letting him catch the bijuu.

[Atheck]

@Atheck
 
I get what you mean with Shikamaru, but you have to remember that Naruto still has a lot of power on his side even without Kurama. Naruto isn't on Shikamaru's level of intellect, but he isn't a moron (at least not when he's focused).
 
Naruto has a nice combination of power and unpredictable smarts that makes him enough of a threat on his own. That's why it's important to not underestimate him. Not to mention he's the main character so there's that plot advantage.

The issue is that we're speaking in different terms. One argument is based around feats, the other, plot. Obviously the actions of the characters are dictated by Kishi's wishes, but if we're judging a hypothetical fight strictly by feats, then the answer becomes less obscured.
 

Also, I know you have certain scenarios in your head about how Sasuke would deal with opponents because this or that happened in the manga, and don't get me wrong, I'm not objecting at all to them, just give yourself a little wiggle room to be wrong. Sometimes things go differently and events can lead to results you didn't see coming.
 
I'm pretty sure you've been wrong in certain speculations about how characters would act in fights or situations, so just keep it in mind. We like to think that because someone has this technique or that ability things most go a certain way, but sometimes it's not so.

Of course we should keep an open mind, but again, this is taking into account the unknown variable of what Kishi's intentions are. A fight dictated by the plot can easily pan out differently than how people expected it too.
 

And if you want to believe Sasuke has perfect Susanoo already that's fine, but don't pass it as fact until it's proven to be such. I don't see how he could have it now, otherwise he would've tried to smack Madara with it instead if letting him catch the bijuu.

You're free to believe what you want. Just don't be surprised when/if Sasuke uses that Susanoo. And the reason for him not being involved currently is probably the same for why no one is bothering to remove the black rods from Hashirama when he would be an incredibly valuable asset to have right now. Plot.

Edit: Again, Naruto admitted inferiority to Sasuke when he only had SM. Is it possible that he might hone his skills to where he can somehow fight EMS without the need for Kurama? Yes. But until we actually see evidence of this, I'm inclined to believe that he's still weaker than Sasuke.

Edited by Atheck, 25 December 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

I feel like something big will happen to Naruto in terms of power. I feel like Bijuu's foreshadowing on him being RS 2nd is going to play huge here. After all, they are still in battlefield.

 

I'm not looking forward to it, but I agree that another power up is on the horizon for Naruto. Anyways, the chapter was good I suppose, though I'm afraid my heart just doesn't seem to be in this manga much right now, most of the stuff I liked about it to begin with is gone, and Kishi's just dragging things out since he apparently doesn't know how to end this whole thing, likely that is the price of upping the ante as much as he has. I'm not saying that I'm quitting the manga or anything, I haven't yet reached that point, but I definitely don't feel enthusiastic about where it's gone and where it's going from here.

[TouKen4Life3g]

To me, it's about how everything sets up and make the purpose clear, but the thing is we have to wait for that impact to arrive. It's kind of like Death Note where you don't understand at one point why are we seeing this piece or that, only when the conclusion draws near, all of them make sense. Bits and pieces just waiting to join up. Once again, Kishi is closing every tiny fiber pieces in which this case is Shukaku. Seriously, if Naruto goes home, I expect a history on how ramen shop was made in Kohona.

[redragon88]

The issue is that we're speaking in different terms. One argument is based around feats, the other, plot. Obviously the actions of the characters are dictated by Kishi's wishes, but if we're judging a hypothetical fight strictly by feats, then the answer becomes less obscured.

 

You make sense. It's just that when we go by creating hypotheticals of feats it boils down to opinion. You'll give a scenario based on your views and someone else gives a different scenario that is also reasonable with their views, and then it becomes an endless circle of discussion.

 

I'd rather just go with the plot than creating hypotheticals in my head. It's too much of a hassle for me otherwise, and it allows me to not create too much expectations of how fights will go down. Surprises are always nice.

 

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Sasuke unleashes perfect Susanoo soon, it's just that as far as the current plot goes he still doesn't have it. If it happens next chapter then we can say that Sasuke had it since chapter 661, but that's about it. Speculation is ok, but let's also remember what the facts are and see the current situation based on that as well.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that Naruto can definitely beat current Sasuke without Kurama, I'm just saying that it's an existing possibility that shouldn't be brushed off completely, going by the plot.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Naruto is going to die and this will break Sakura's heart just like it did to Rin when Obito was thought to be dead in the previous war. And she is going to finally let go of Sasuke. Naruto will be resurrected and become the new Rikudo Sennin.

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 25 December 2013 - 07:43 PM.