96 replies to this topic

[FoolishYoungling]

Well I have a theory on the origin of Byakugan and its pretty simple.

THe original and most potent jutsu was the rinnegan, with the ability to learn ALL jutsu, perform some absurdly powerfull techniques and even reverse death (with no price whatsoever is you have suifficient chakra)

The jutsu didnt kill him --Click here to view--

Than the rinnegans power split into the Sharingan and possibly Mokuton.

Now heres the thing about the uchiha. They most likely dont have an arranged marriage system, or inbreeding within the clan. Is it possible that the Sharingan got diluded.

Rinnegan----(looses most ninjutsu abilities)------>Sharingan-------(diludes and refines)------> Byakuugan

The Byakugan`s only actual power is the power of sight. They have radar vision (360) and they see chakra to its finest detail. Sharingan can do that but not to that extent.

So my theory in short. Its a washed up version of Sharingan caused by a tainetd bloodline.

So if Sasuke and Hinata go at it. What would the baby have? Sharigan, Byakugan, or neither?

[Shadow1275]

I belive I refered to this in the other topic.

Naruto was going to fight the Byakugann. So Kishi most likely said: This kitten needs to be awesome. I just hope its not a problem later.
But it turned out it was a problem.

Haha, I'm not sure he thinks that far ahead.

I think that he wanted to create several dojutsu but then changed his mind when he developed a budding romance with Sasuke. That's right I went there. The pairing that has always been canon has been KishixSasu.

[Atheck]

The Byakugan may have some relation to the Uchiha but as others have referenced if it is then it's likely just an adulterated by-product that diverged from the Sharingan some time in the past after it had completed its devolution from the Rinnegan. Aside from maybe taijutsu capability it is inferior in every way apart from reconnaissance and chakra network observation capabilities. In all probability it will not have a greater role than the one it already possesses since Kishi has not even addressed it that much as being of any historical relevance to the Sage or the Sharingan since Kakashi presented the possibility of it being distantly related to the Uchiha back during the Chunin Exams. Admittedly, I'm not too concerned with it though since the Hyuga Clan never interested me that much. I would rather devote more attention to Lee or Shino, or better yet, the heroine of this story, Sakura.

On a different matter: I don't believe Kishi will provide Sakura with any power-ups as well. All of this conceptualizing based upon a coincidental resemblance to Hashirama's symbol is interesting but when taking into consideration past occurrences, or lack of, how much probability is there in these claims that she'll receive something of tremendous benefit like Sage Mode? It appears as though Kishi has been doing everything he can to relegate her towards a non-combatant role since the end of the Sasori fight. Hell, in recent arcs he's even admitted to having forgotten about her. As much as I resent it and Kishi's detestable negligence of Sakura's character, given these circumstances I just cannot see something as exceptional as Hashirama giving her a power up or anything of the sort.

Edited by Atheck, 01 May 2013 - 11:26 PM.

[FoolishYoungling]

The Byakugan may have some relation to the Uchiha but as others have referenced if it is then it's likely just an adulterated by-product that diverged from the Sharingan some time in the past after it had completed its devolution from the Rinnegan. Aside from maybe taijutsu capability it is inferior in every way apart from reconnaissance and chakra network observation capabilities. In all probability it will not have a greater role than the one it already possesses since Kishi has not even addressed it that much as being of any historical relevance to the Sage or the Sharingan since Kakashi presented the possibility of it being distantly related to the Uchiha back during the Chunin Exams. Admittedly, I'm not too concerned with it though since the Hyuga Clan never interested me that much. I would rather devote more attention to Lee or Shino, or better yet, the heroine of this story, Sakura.

On a different matter: I don't believe Kishi will provide Sakura with any power-ups as well. All of this conceptualizing based upon a coincidental resemblance to Hashirama's symbol is interesting but when taking into consideration past occurrences, or lack of, how much probability is there in these claims that she'll receive something of tremendous benefit like Sage Mode? It appears as though Kishi has been doing everything he can to relegate her towards a non-combatant role since the end of the Sasori fight. Hell, in recent arcs he's even admitted to having forgotten about her. As much as I resent it and Kishi's detestable negligence of Sakura's character, given these circumstances I just cannot see something as exceptional as Hashirama giving her a power up or anything of the sort.

Bolded: Then what was the point of the 4 rules by Tsunade and the covers with Sakura on a slug? Or how about the fact that generations pass one another, and that means Sakura must surpass Tsunade?

[Shadow1275]

The Byakugan may have some relation to the Uchiha but as others have referenced if it is then it's likely just an adulterated by-product that diverged from the Sharingan some time in the past after it had completed its devolution from the Rinnegan. Aside from maybe taijutsu capability it is inferior in every way apart from reconnaissance and chakra network observation capabilities. In all probability it will not have a greater role than the one it already possesses since Kishi has not even addressed it that much as being of any historical relevance to the Sage or the Sharingan since Kakashi presented the possibility of it being distantly related to the Uchiha back during the Chunin Exams. Admittedly, I'm not too concerned with it though since the Hyuga Clan never interested me that much. I would rather devote more attention to Lee or Shino, or better yet, the heroine of this story, Sakura.

On a different matter: I don't believe Kishi will provide Sakura with any power-ups as well. All of this conceptualizing based upon a coincidental resemblance to Hashirama's symbol is interesting but when taking into consideration past occurrences, or lack of, how much probability is there in these claims that she'll receive something of tremendous benefit like Sage Mode? It appears as though Kishi has been doing everything he can to relegate her towards a non-combatant role since the end of the Sasori fight. Hell, in recent arcs he's even admitted to having forgotten about her. As much as I resent it and Kishi's detestable negligence of Sakura's character, given these circumstances I just cannot see something as exceptional as Hashirama giving her a power up or anything of the sort.

Well if he does, now would be the best time for it since things don't look good for Tsunade. Though I figured that when Madara came to the battlefield and declared victory over the kages, Sakura might have been sent with a medical squad.

Looking at the majority of part 2 though, it seems like Kishi has forced pretty much every female character into a support role. In part 1, we had instances where females would actually fight and win battles, like how Jiraiya couldn't beat Orochimaru, only Tsunade could. Or how Temari rescued Shikamaru. Now it seems like he did a complete 180.

Maybe Sakura will get some sort of fight which bc of what he has done will emphasize her role as the heroine. I hope so

[Atheck]

Bolded: Then what was the point of the 4 rules by Tsunade and the covers with Sakura on a slug? Or how about the fact that generations pass one another, and that means Sakura must surpass Tsunade?

To give some level of justification for Sakura having no fights since Sasori and to heighten the tension of the moment during the Madara fight when Tsunade would break all the rules by revealing her technique. Are we going to see Sakura with a battleaxe? I ask this because in alot of those covers she's seen wielding one. I feel that Kishi may have chosen to implement some elements form those concepts like with Sasuke's hawk summoning and Naruto's relation to the frogs but Sakura? Apart from her being Tsunade's student what precisely has come to pass for her? The generational argument has long since been forsaken it appears with people like Madara and Hashirama revealing that their powers are far beyond anything the current world has ever seen. We then have some other examples of this like Guy still being superior to Lee and there's no implications that that will change.

I hate to admit this but it appears as though Kishi really has forsaken the previous philosophical implications of his manga. At least in the physical sense. Ideologically and ethically the current generation will surpass the old but in the contextual sense of fighting ability the previous generations, aside from a few exceptions like with Naruto/Sasuke and Jiraiya/Orochimaru, the old generation is superior in almost every way. Keep in mind that with these theories we have to factor in the statement Kishi made of having forgotten about Sakura.

Well if he does, now would be the best time for it since things don't look good for Tsunade.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the scene transitioned back over to the Kages depicting them all as having recovered from their injuries, Tsunade included, thanks to the chakra that Dan provided to her.

Though I figured that when Madara came to the battlefield and declared victory over the kages, Sakura might have been sent with a medical squad.

Well she was never sent off as this recent chapter has confirmed to us. Much to our dismay she was with Naruto's group the entire time yet for some contemptible peculiarity Kishi neglected to even provide a panel of her receiving Naruto's chakra. Honestly, just thinking about that makes me irascible.

Looking at the majority of part 2 though, it seems like Kishi has forced pretty much every female character into a support role. In part 1, we had instances where females would actually fight and win battles, like how Jiraiya couldn't beat Orochimaru, only Tsunade could. Or how Temari rescued Shikamaru. Now it seems like he did a complete 180.

Unfortunately that appears to be the case. Now I suppose some of this can be attributed to Kishi expanding the character cast considerably since P1. You have to remember that back during P1 the cast was much smaller than it is now and so everyone, the K9 being most notable, was able to have more screen time. However, with the introduction of other villages and shinobi, Akatsuki especially, their amount of screen time has diminished to a fraction of what it once was. Furthermore Kishi seems to have a proclivity for utilizing male characters primarily in fights so it was inevitable that something like this would happen with the female character cast.

On the bright side of things, Sakura did have the longest fight in P2 of any female character who was focused on. I mean how many other fights after this one can you think of that were as long or as intense? Hell, after Sasori the next time we see a female cast member fight at all on-screen didn't come until the Kage Summit and that was only for like one chapter with Onoki participating as well. During the Madara fight much of the effort was being contributed by Gaara, A, and Onoki. Tsunade and Mei didn't have the same centralized focus like Sakura and Chiyo did when fighting Sasori.

Maybe Sakura will get some sort of fight which bc of what he has done will emphasize her role as the heroine. I hope so

As unlikely as that may be, IMHO, I hope it somehow comes true as well. Very much so...

Edited by Atheck, 02 May 2013 - 12:10 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

I have said it before, but I will reiterate. I foresee no story progression for the byakugan whatsoever. Hinata or not. If there was supposed to be one, I think it should have been done a long time ago when the idea of the byakugan was still fresh in people's minds. With the manga coming to a close and nearly half of the info we got on the byakugan has either been retconed or ignored all together I doubt it will be of more importance.

The byakugan can't "predict" the enemy movements. In fact, I don't even think the Sharingan can. It only give the illusion to it predicting because it seem to put the thought in people's heads sublimely. I remember the Zabuza fight where he thought kakashi was predicting movements, but it was really Kakashi "sublimely telling him to do such jutsu. It is an eye that is used to alter reality, not create it.

The Rinnegan seems the most powerful in that you can create and destroy reality at will, but it is the hardest to master.

The way the manga is written, the byakugan almost seems like either an afterbirth of the sharingan or is something not related altogether with the Rinnegan being the original. I always got the impression that the Rinnegan de-evolved into the Sharingan which again de-evolved into the byakugan. Does that mean the byakugan can turn into a Sharingan? I am not sure, but I doubt something like that would be explained. It is supported with Madara that the Sharingan can transform into the Rinnegan when experiencing some unknown circumstances. It is not 100% clear how he got it or how he managed to use it. (Especially when it seems like he died by the First's hand in the battle.)

Still, like I said, with all the hype surrounding the Rinnegan and the Sharingan recently, I doubt the byakugan with have an importance. I also don't believe Hinata will get a new power either with the byakugan because...what would be the point? She is not fighting her own enemy and if Naruto is supposed to be the hero then she will take the glory from him. So again, what would be the point of gaining such a new jutsu?

The only jutsu I could see anyone getting is maybe Naruto gaining the TFG technique through his father. (Depending on what this "gift" is.) I rather see Naruto get one more jutsu than either Sakura or Hinata getting a new one. Mostly because I want Naruto to win in the end. And I mean win in everything.

[Shadow1275]

I have said it before, but I will reiterate. I foresee no story progression for the byakugan whatsoever. Hinata or not. If there was supposed to be one, I think it should have been done a long time ago when the idea of the byakugan was still fresh in people's minds. With the manga coming to a close and nearly half of the info we got on the byakugan has either been retconed or ignored all together I doubt it will be of more importance.

The byakugan can't "predict" the enemy movements. In fact, I don't even think the Sharingan can. It only give the illusion to it predicting because it seem to put the thought in people's heads sublimely. I remember the Zabuza fight where he thought kakashi was predicting movements, but it was really Kakashi "sublimely telling him to do such jutsu. It is an eye that is used to alter reality, not create it.

The Rinnegan seems the most powerful in that you can create and destroy reality at will, but it is the hardest to master.

The way the manga is written, the byakugan almost seems like either an afterbirth of the sharingan or is something not related altogether with the Rinnegan being the original. I always got the impression that the Rinnegan de-evolved into the Sharingan which again de-evolved into the byakugan. Does that mean the byakugan can turn into a Sharingan? I am not sure, but I doubt something like that would be explained. It is supported with Madara that the Sharingan can transform into the Rinnegan when experiencing some unknown circumstances. It is not 100% clear how he got it or how he managed to use it. (Especially when it seems like he died by the First's hand in the battle.)

Still, like I said, with all the hype surrounding the Rinnegan and the Sharingan recently, I doubt the byakugan with have an importance. I also don't believe Hinata will get a new power either with the byakugan because...what would be the point? She is not fighting her own enemy and if Naruto is supposed to be the hero then she will take the glory from him. So again, what would be the point of gaining such a new jutsu?

The only jutsu I could see anyone getting is maybe Naruto gaining the TFG technique through his father. (Depending on what this "gift" is.) I rather see Naruto get one more jutsu than either Sakura or Hinata getting a new one. Mostly because I want Naruto to win in the end. And I mean win in everything.

Naruto is already at the God Level and surpassed Minato a long time ago. Sakura is supposed to surpass Tsunade, this has been hinted at since the beginning. It's time for Kishi to come through on that.

As for the Byakugan, I doubt the relation to the Sage of 6 paths only because it requires handsigns to perform. Unlike the Rinnegan or the Sharingan. It seems like it's more of a Kekkei Genkai like Ice or wood jutsu.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I have said it before, but I will reiterate. I foresee no story progression for the byakugan whatsoever. Hinata or not. If there was supposed to be one, I think it should have been done a long time ago when the idea of the byakugan was still fresh in people's minds. With the manga coming to a close and nearly half of the info we got on the byakugan has either been retconed or ignored all together I doubt it will be of more importance.

The byakugan can't "predict" the enemy movements. In fact, I don't even think the Sharingan can. It only give the illusion to it predicting because it seem to put the thought in people's heads sublimely. I remember the Zabuza fight where he thought kakashi was predicting movements, but it was really Kakashi "sublimely telling him to do such jutsu. It is an eye that is used to alter reality, not create it.

The Rinnegan seems the most powerful in that you can create and destroy reality at will, but it is the hardest to master.

The way the manga is written, the byakugan almost seems like either an afterbirth of the sharingan or is something not related altogether with the Rinnegan being the original. I always got the impression that the Rinnegan de-evolved into the Sharingan which again de-evolved into the byakugan. Does that mean the byakugan can turn into a Sharingan? I am not sure, but I doubt something like that would be explained. It is supported with Madara that the Sharingan can transform into the Rinnegan when experiencing some unknown circumstances. It is not 100% clear how he got it or how he managed to use it. (Especially when it seems like he died by the First's hand in the battle.)

Still, like I said, with all the hype surrounding the Rinnegan and the Sharingan recently, I doubt the byakugan with have an importance. I also don't believe Hinata will get a new power either with the byakugan because...what would be the point? She is not fighting her own enemy and if Naruto is supposed to be the hero then she will take the glory from him. So again, what would be the point of gaining such a new jutsu?

The only jutsu I could see anyone getting is maybe Naruto gaining the TFG technique through his father. (Depending on what this "gift" is.) I rather see Naruto get one more jutsu than either Sakura or Hinata getting a new one. Mostly because I want Naruto to win in the end. And I mean win in everything.

This is the part which is incosistent because if the Rinnengan was a evolution of the sharingan why Madara still keep the sharingan, everytime he has ot use one of the rinnengan jutsus he has to swap to the rinnegan and then uses it when he has to use any kind of genjutsu he has to swap to the sharingan it's not like he evolved into Sharingan to rinnegan, it's like he has two doujutsus.

Nagato had Madara's eyes, why he could not use the sharingan then?
Kishimoto bad explained that.

It looks more like a stuff like the mokuton, it's not a simle doujutsu but rather some blood related stuff, i think if a senju gets DNA from an uchiha and put it on himself he can also unlock the rinnegan the same way that an Uchiha can get Senju DNA and put it into himself.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 02 May 2013 - 12:41 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

Naruto is already at the God Level and surpassed Minato a long time ago. Sakura is supposed to surpass Tsunade, this has been hinted at since the beginning. It's time for Kishi to come through on that.

Except Naruto only surpassed because of the Nine-tails inside of him and even then Minato's life was cut short thanks to the Nine-tails attack. If Minato had lived, he probably would have been a God as well and probably beat Naruto as he is now. (Speaking of which, most of Naruto's techniques were not his to begin with. Sure, I guess you could say he invented the Rasen-Shurikan, but in reality Minato was working on that long before. The reason why he never figured it out was again because of the Nine-tails attacks.

Power-wise...yes, but then Naruto still has a lot to learn as he is still one of more "dumber" Ninja of the group. (Not stupid, but almost the dumbest of the group.) He has the ability to adapt, but he is like Son Goku. It is more than just power that make up a ninja. Why are people so against Naruto learning TFG? I don't get this. "Because he is already fast enough in Nine-tail chakra mode." Yeah, but he still can't touch people like Obito who can bend space itself. Speed matters little to people like that. And really, the Nine-tails chakra mode is like going SSJ3

Power isn't everything and Minato could probably use Naruto's power against him quite easily. Especially when he seals it (And we know he can.) It would be nice seeing Naruto so something else other then "Power-up nine-tails....Rasengan." Unlike Kakashi, Sasuke, and some others who has learned several techniques that could easily block the rasengan or make Naruto look weak even with all that power.

As for the Byakugan, I doubt the relation to the Sage of 6 paths only because it requires handsigns to perform. Unlike the Rinnegan or the Sharingan. It seems like it's more of a Kekkei Genkai like Ice or wood jutsu.

This is the part which is incosistent because if the Rinnengan was a evolution of the sharingan why Madara still keep the sharingan, everytime he has ot use one of the rinnengan jutsus he has to swap to the rinnegan and then uses it when he has to use any kind of genjutsu he has to swap to the sharingan it's not like he evolved into Sharingan to rinnegan, it's like he has two doujutsus.

Yet to see the ten-tails with an eye that looks like a cross between the two. That can't be a coincidence. Also, why can't the Rinnegan use Sharingan powers? Because Kishi didn't want them to use the same powers. Doesn't mean it can't be an evolution of it. The power of fiction: Anything is possible with enough given process.

Nagato had Madara's eyes, why he could not use the sharingan then?
Kishimoto bad explained that.

Because Nagato is NOT an Uchiha. It is the same answer on why Kakashi can't turn his Sharingan off.

It looks more like a stuff like the mokuton, it's not a simle doujutsu but rather some blood related stuff, i think if a senju gets DNA from an uchiha and put it on himself he can also unlock the rinnegan the same way that an Uchiha can get Senju DNA and put it into himself.

The problem with this is is that Madara unlocked the Rinnegan before he was injected with Senju DNA by Kabuto, not after. How do you explain that?

Also, it is never been stated if the Uzumaki clan, who basically is the other half, can unlock the Rinnegan. We always thought they could, but once again Madara throws a wrench in that where Nagato didn't "unlock" the Rinnegan he was just given Madara's eyes. We know Senju DNA has a factor in it, but it is not quite clear what it is.

Or and here is another theory, the Six-Paths Rinnegan is a product of splitting the Ten-tails eyes into two powers.

Truth be told we have no origin of any of these eyes. They just seemed to have appeared. How did the Six-paths get the Rinnegan? Was he born with it or was it created? Perhaps he fought the Ten-Tails and gained it after sealing the Ten-tails inside himself. It never specified that he used the Rinnegan on the Ten-tails. He used it later to seal him into the moon, but before he was the Ten-tails jinchuuriki. Even the history of the Six-Paths is clouded in legend. So, it could be possible that reason why the Senju DNA is so versatile is because of the DNA of the Ten-tailes mixed in it causing these by products. (Seeing how the byakugan's history was a legend and now is retconed, this could very much be a truth to it as well.)

Madara blows all theories out of the water with this one because seems to be able to do anything no matter what.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 02 May 2013 - 01:07 AM.

[redragon88]

Why is this even here?

Shouldn't this be in the Naruto General Discussions section?

I don't know all the details but I'm guessing this is a theory that speculates Hinata will have a huge role in the future, right?

It seems the poster tried very hard to gather all that info, but to be honest connections about the future can be made for just about anything with enough imagination. If Hinata was meant to be this great main pillar to the plot Kishi wouldn't have relegated her role to be just about gaining confidence thanks to Naruto.

I find it hard to believe that Hinata will, for some random reason, become the key to defeating the Juubi. Many were already hoping for some epic team up between her and Naruto after 615 only to realize that yet again Hinata isn't really as important as people desperately push her to be.

Hinata is a character that is meant to appear from time to time in order to obtain personal development about her confidence, and that already reached it's climax during 615. Hinata's shining moment is done, she did what she wanted to do in 573 with her speech about holding hands and was able to stand right besides her hero. There's nothing more for Hinata. Volume 64 was meant to conclude the development of the Hyuugas, mainly Hinata and Neji. It's the closure to the events that happened in the chunin exam with Neji understanding the meaning of free will and Hinata having the confidence to face Naruto, both which were huge problems about their characters back in Part 1.

Hinata is not some chosen one meant to obtain incredible powers. There's no basis for her to be special. If anything happened with the Hyuugas it would be something related to all of them and not just Hinata. What makes that even more obvious is that at the end of the day Hinata is not even that powerful, her dad and Neji where still leagues above her. Sure, she can eventually train in order to surpass her father but that will only happen after the series is over.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Except Naruto only surpassed because of the Nine-tails inside of him and even then Minato's life was cut short thanks to the Nine-tails attack. If Minato had lived, he probably would have been a God as well and probably beat Naruto as he is now. (Speaking of which, most of Naruto's techniques were not his to begin with. Sure, I guess you could say he invented the Rasen-Shurikan, but in reality Minato was working on that long before. The reason why he never figured it out was again because of the Nine-tails attacks.

Power-wise...yes, but then Naruto still has a lot to learn as he is still one of more "dumber" Ninja of the group. (Not stupid, but almost the dumbest of the group.) He has the ability to adapt, but he is like Son Goku. It is more than just power that make up a ninja. Why are people so against Naruto learning TFG? I don't get this. "Because he is already fast enough in Nine-tail chakra mode." Yeah, but he still can't touch people like Obito who can bend space itself. Speed matters little to people like that. And really, the Nine-tails chakra mode is like going SSJ3

Power isn't everything and Minato could probably use Naruto's power against him quite easily. Especially when he seals it (And we know he can.) It would be nice seeing Naruto so something else other then "Power-up nine-tails....Rasengan." Unlike Kakashi, Sasuke, and some others who has learned several techniques that could easily block the rasengan or make Naruto look weak even with all that power.





Yet to see the ten-tails with an eye that looks like a cross between the two. That can't be a coincidence. Also, why can't the Rinnegan use Sharingan powers? Because Kishi didn't want them to use the same powers. Doesn't mean it can't be an evolution of it. The power of fiction: Anything is possible with enough given process.



Because Nagato is NOT an Uchiha. It is the same answer on why Kakashi can't turn his Sharingan off.



The problem with this is is that Madara unlocked the Rinnegan before he was injected with Senju DNA by Kabuto, not after. How do you explain that?

Also, it is never been stated if the Uzumaki clan, who basically is the other half, can unlock the Rinnegan. We always thought they could, but once again Madara throws a wrench in that where Nagato didn't "unlock" the Rinnegan he was just given Madara's eyes. We know Senju DNA has a factor in it, but it is not quite clear what it is.

Or and here is another theory, the Six-Paths Rinnegan is a product of splitting the Ten-tails eyes into two powers.

Truth be told we have no origin of any of these eyes. They just seemed to have appeared. How did the Six-paths get the Rinnegan? Was he born with it or was it created? Perhaps he fought the Ten-Tails and gained it after sealing the Ten-tails inside himself. It never specified that he used the Rinnegan on the Ten-tails. He used it later to seal him into the moon, but before he was the Ten-tails jinchuuriki. Even the history of the Six-Paths is clouded in legend. So, it could be possible that reason why the Senju DNA is so versatile is because of the DNA of the Ten-tailes mixed in it causing these by products. (Seeing how the byakugan's history was a legend and now is retconed, this could very much be a truth to it as well.)

Madara blows all theories out of the water with this one because seems to be able to do anything no matter what.

edo tensei only gives the power that belongs to the user, the Senju stuff didnt belonged to Madara, it was something he enfused on his body, the edo tensei is not Madara's body but rather his own soul, then Kabuto give him a body that had senju cells infused so he could use Hashirama's powers, with the Senju cells it was able to revigorate Madara to make him back into his prime form with his powers when he was old.

Becuase if it was something that Madara had then Nagato would have the sharingan as well, but seemed to me just like when Kakashi had the sharingan, his sharingan despite being borrowed from Obito he can swap between the mangakyou or the normal sharingan version, then this is the reason why i believe that the rinnegan is not something that belongs to the uchiha but rather a puzzle, that needs the other half, while the Uchiha needs the Senju dna to unlock it, it's reasonable to think as well that a Senju with Uchiha cells infused on himself can also unlock it, and the proof is that Madara fight swapping between the doujutsus.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 02 May 2013 - 01:46 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

I think you should re-read Obito's flashbacks, Madara already had the rinnegan and unlocked tha shortly before his death(with Senju DNA infused on himself) not on his edo OP version.
Second the edo tensei only gives the power that belongs to the user, the Senju stuff didnt belonged to Madara, it was something he enfused on his body, the edo tensei is not Madara's body but rather his own soul, then Kabuto give him a body that had senju cells infused so he could use Hashirama's powers, with the Senju cells it was able to revigorate Madara to make him back into his prime.

Becuase if it was something that Madara had then Nagato would have the sharingan as well, but seemed to me just like when Kakashi had the sharingan, his sharingan despite being borrowed from Obito he can swap between the mangakyou or the normal sharingan version, then this is the reason why i believe that the rinnegan is not something that belongs to the uchiha but rather a puzzle, that needs the other half, while the Uchiha needs the Senju dna to unlock it, it's reasonable to think as well that a Senju with Uchiha cells infused on himself can also unlock it, and the proof is that Madara fight swapping between the doujutsus.

You didn't read a single word of what I typed did you? *sigh* Oh well.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You didn't read a single word of what I typed did you? *sigh* Oh well.

I read just dont get why you responded like that, it's kinda simple Uchina + Senju = Sage of Six path/Rinnengan.
The sage of six paths didnt had the sharingan, the sharingan was the juubi's doujutsu.
also the mangekyou sharinga uses the same powers as the normal sharingan and the fuumetsu mangekyou sharingan also have the same powers as the mangekyou and the normal sharingan, rinnegan and sharingan are two different doujutsus, it looks like each other has one half.

Also for Nagato he only give his eyes but didnt enfused his own DNA on him, and it's show that he was capable of handling it which means that nagato had the part that requires to use a doujutsu of that level.
if Madara injected his own DNA on him, Nagato would surely awake his rinnegan.

It looks more to me that the Uchiha are descendants of the juubi and the Senju are descendants of the Sage.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 02 May 2013 - 01:49 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

I read just dont get why you responded like that, it's kinda simple Uchina + Senju = Sage of Six path/Rinnengan.

I just don't get how much you missed me actually...you know, saying that? Also, all the explanation I already said on said matters. Did you even like read the whole post or did you just scan like one sentence and made the whole conclusion based off that?

It seems to be a pattern with you where you take one sentence and assume it is the whole post. You do it quite a lot and not just with me.

We also have this thing where only two people in the history of the ninja world have been known to have unlocked the Rinnegan: Sage of Six Paths and Madara.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 02 May 2013 - 01:51 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I just don't get how much you missed me actually...you know, saying that? Also, all the explanation I already said on said matters. Did you even like read the whole post or did you just scan like one sentence and made the whole conclusion based off that?

It seems to be a pattern with you where you take one sentence and assume it is the whole post. You do it quite a lot and not just with me.

I'm a bit tired, i skipped the "before" but i didnt assume just one sentence.

23:00 pm here.

We also have this thing where only two people in the history of the ninja world have been known to have unlocked the Rinnegan: Sage of Six Paths and Madara.

Actually i dont care too much about that because whne Kishimoto shows something that is exclusive he then start spamming it like crazy, it started with the sharingan, then mokuton, edo tensei, sage mode, i have any doubts that soon we will have another guy that will also have the rinnegan.(Sasuke) with some kind of plot twist like Obito secretly injected some Senju cells on him.

For sage mode we have : Naruto, Jiraiya, Hashirama, Juugo, Kabuto.

Note: Since the juubi is responsible for creating the humans why he would create a guy that was capable of defeating him? the juubi isn't a god?

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 02 May 2013 - 02:01 AM.

[Atheck]

This is the part which is inconsistent because if the Rinnengan was a evolution of the Sharingan why Madara still keep the sharingan, every time he has to use one of the Rinnengan jutsus he has to swap to the Rinnegan and then uses it when he has to use any kind of genjutsu he has to swap to the Sharingan it's not like he evolved into Sharingan to Rinnegan, it's like he has two doujutsus.

Well it's possible that the Sharingan, having metamorphosed to such a considerable degree where it doesn't even resemble the Rinnegan anymore, has now become something of its own KG similar to how the Uzumaki clan diverged from the Senju and now they possess their own unique qualities (powerful sealing techniques). Although this particular instance is much more extreme than that. If this is true then it's possible that the Rinnegan may not be compatible with the abilities that the Sharingan offers like precognition but it does share one similarity. That being the ability to copy or learn any jutsu excluding KG. The difference with this being that with the Rinnegan you probably have to actually teach yourself how to use that jutsu whilst the Sharingan allows you to simply copy handseals and then you're good to go.

Nagato had Madara's eyes, why he could not use the Sharingan then?
Kishimoto bad explained that.

Probably for the same reason that Kakashi, Danzo, and Ao are unable to deactivate their respective doujutsu. It's an unnatural ability, a KG, that was artificially implanted into them that they learned to control to some degree but are unable to fully master it like the original possessor of the KG can. When they had theirs implanted it was probably already active and due to some unforeseen stipulation they cannot turn it off; which is the reasoning behind them keeping it concealed so that they are not unnecessarily expending chakra all of the time. This concept could be applicable to Nagato and his inability to use EMS. When Madara implanted his eyes into Nagato they were already in the Rinnegan state and so Nagato would be unable to revert them back to EMS. It's the same for Tobi as well considering how he still has one remaining Sharingan eye alongside the Rinnegan that he implanted into himself.

It looks more like a stuff like the Mokuton, it's not a simple doujutsu but rather some blood related stuff, i think if a Senju gets DNA from an Uchiha and put it on himself he can also unlock the Rinnegan the same way that an Uchiha can get Senju DNA and put it into himself.

The Senju inherited the Sage's "body". Presumably that relates to his immeasurable amount of chakra and bodily vitality. It was the Uchiha who inherited the Sage's "eyes". For a Senju to acquire the Rinnegan they would first need to implant a Sharingan, not just DNA, into themselves but once they did that there's a good chance that they would unlock it. Although I suppose there's also the issue of whether a Sharingan user needs to have already unlocked MS/EMS before they can attain the Rinnegan or not.

[Dkey]

Well it's possible that the Sharingan, having metamorphosed to such a considerable degree where it doesn't even resemble the Rinnegan anymore, has now become something of its own KG similar to how the Uzumaki clan diverged from the Senju and now they possess their own unique qualities (powerful sealing techniques). Although this particular instance is much more extreme than that. If this is true then it's possible that the Rinnegan may not be compatible with the abilities that the Sharingan offers like precognition but it does share one similarity. That being the ability to copy or learn any jutsu excluding KG. The difference with this being that with the Rinnegan you probably have to actually teach yourself how to use that jutsu whilst the Sharingan allows you to simply copy handseals and then you're good to go.



Probably for the same reason that Kakashi, Danzo, and Ao are unable to deactivate their respective doujutsu. It's an unnatural ability, a KG, that was artificially implanted into them that they learned to control to some degree but are unable to fully master it like the original possessor of the KG can. When they had theirs implanted it was probably already active and due to some unforeseen stipulation they cannot turn it off; which is the reasoning behind them keeping it concealed so that they are not unnecessarily expending chakra all of the time. This concept could be applicable to Nagato and his inability to use EMS. When Madara implanted his eyes into Nagato they were already in the Rinnegan state and so Nagato would be unable to revert them back to EMS. It's the same for Tobi as well considering how he still has one remaining Sharingan eye alongside the Rinnegan that he implanted into himself.






The Senju inherited the Sage's "body". Presumably that relates to his immeasurable amount of chakra and bodily vitality. It was the Uchiha who inherited the Sage's "eyes". For a Senju to acquire the Rinnegan they would first need to implant a Sharingan, not just DNA, into themselves but once they did that there's a good chance that they would unlock it. Although I suppose there's also the issue of whether a Sharingan user needs to have already unlocked MS/EMS before they can attain the Rinnegan or not.

Well the sharingan has uchiha dna so if you mix uchiha with senju you should get the So6p powers. Thou it would be understandable that maybe not any Uchiha Dna is needed but more importantly the eyes. While Senju inheriting the boyd meaning that even a strand of hair would be enough to trigger those S06p powers.

And only thing we have revealed is that
1) So6p is the source of all ninjutsu
2) had access to the rinnegan
3) had the ten tails in him
4) was a god compared to the other humans

And a thing that always bothered me is that Kishi always was inconsistent with Blood line limits.

So the blood line limits would be only blood related but also compose out of 2 elemental jutsus. So is the byakugan and sharingan such a blood line limit? Regardless of the answer of my previous question if anyone even Sakura manages to combine 2 elemental jutsus she will get a blood line limit.
So I can agree that the sharingan isn't a blood line limit because of it's ancestry but what about Mokuton? is it a S06p power, a Hashirama only blood line limit? Does that have blood line limits are related to the S06p?

Anyway back to the Senju vs. Uchiha
Now if Madara would be alive and seal the ten tails in him he would become like the S06p having access to all of his powers. Basically he should have them already except for some that he can't use because of a chakra limit but with the ten tails any chakra requirement would become irrelevant.

Now the idea of the next generation surpassing the previous still stance based on 2 principals.
1) the first failed at something and the next won't
2) they will be more powerful abilities wise ( Naruto may not be his father but you really can't say that a 16-17 year old boy doesn't still have some more to grow)

And because of the Uchiha Senju heritage to the S06p they are in another league of powers compared to the others. So the only ones to surpass them would be the ones that belong ancestry wise to their heritage. Like Naruto and Sasuke.

Edited by Dkey, 02 May 2013 - 05:06 AM.

[Chatte]

Wll, sorry to not believe it but that part with the seeming Hyuga symbol is actually something else.

[Atheck]

Well the sharingan has uchiha dna so if you mix uchiha with senju you should get the So6p powers.

If you happen to possess the Sharingan, yes. From what I interpreted of Darkrest's post it sounded as if he were making the claim that a Senju would only need the Uchiha DNA to acquire the Rinnegan and not the Sharingan, the doujutsu, as well. That may have been error on my part.

Thou it would be understandable that maybe not any Uchiha Dna is needed but more importantly the eyes.

This is the point I was trying to get at, yeah. Uchiha DNA is important but what's more significant is acquiring the Sharingan itself.

While Senju inheriting the boyd meaning that even a strand of hair would be enough to trigger those S06p powers.

I doubt it's that simple when you consider people like Madara whom it took almost their entire lives to acquire the Rinnegan.

And only thing we have revealed is that
1) So6p is the source of all ninjutsu
2) had access to the rinnegan
3) had the ten tails in him
4) was a god compared to the other humans

The statement about the Senju inheriting his "body" seems to imply that the sage also had high chakra levels and vitality. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if it was confirmed that he was a sensor, both of chakra and emotions, as well.

And a thing that always bothered me is that Kishi always was inconsistent with Blood line limits.

That's just one particular detail on an extensive line of errors made throughout his manga.

So the blood line limits would be only blood related but also compose out of 2 elemental jutsus. So is the byakugan and sharingan such a blood line limit? Regardless of the answer of my previous question if anyone even Sakura manages to combine 2 elemental jutsus she will get a blood line limit.

I don't believe that's how it works. You can use two basic elements and then mix those together to make a single effect or combination. Say for instance if you created a puddle using Suiton and then projected a fireball at it. That would generate steam or boil I guess, which is technically a combination but you are unable to manipulate or properly utilize element. You just created the effect of that element. The notion of an elemental KG appears to involve being able to use that mixed element without the above process being necessitated as well as using actual ninjutsu of said element. Yamato demonstrated that he is able to mix elements together with seals alone. I believe that's the vital difference between a KG of that nature and simply mixing the effects of two jutsu together like the whirlpool maneuver Naruto and Yamato made using Fuuton and Suiton.

So I can agree that the sharingan isn't a blood line limit because of it's ancestry but what about Mokuton? is it a S06p power, a Hashirama only blood line limit? Does that have blood line limits are related to the S06p?

It's unknown but personally I wouldn't be surprised if the Sot6P was capable of using Mokuton as well. He's supposedly the god of ninjutsu who had mastered Yin-Yang release. In other words he was capable of transforming dreams into reality. At least from what I've read of it. Given those conditions I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one to originally create the Mokuton element. The question presented then is why none of his descendants ever possessed the ability aside from Hashirama. It's a mystery. One which Kishi probably will never address.

Anyway back to the Senju vs. Uchiha
Now if Madara would be alive and seal the ten tails in him he would become like the S06p having access to all of his powers. Basically he should have them already except for some that he can't use because of a chakra limit but with the ten tails any chakra requirement would become irrelevant.

Being the Jubi's jinchuuriki doesn't grant you a previous jinchuuriki's abilities. It just gives you an exorbitant amount of chakra as well as transformations. To become like the sage you not only require the DNA of his two children but also you need to have mastered all elements including the Yin-Yang release. Madara has fulfilled most of those obligations except for the last one. If he could master all elements then he would become the closest to the actual sage.

Symbolically, he'd probably resemble the Sot6P but if Madara wanted to actually acquire his abilities and not just his persona then he'll need to fulfill the above requirements.

Now the idea of the next generation surpassing the previous still stance based on 2 principals.
1) the first failed at something and the next won't
2) they will be more powerful abilities wise ( Naruto may not be his father but you really can't say that a 16-17 year old boy doesn't still have some more to grow)

And because of the Uchiha Senju heritage to the S06p they are in another league of powers compared to the others. So the only ones to surpass them would be the ones that belong ancestry wise to their heritage. Like Naruto and Sasuke.

That's a fair assumption to make but it was never suggested in the manga. When you hear the phrase "young surpassing the old" you think not just one in contextual sense of them being able to move beyond the constraints of dissension but also surpassing as in combat ability as well. This doesn't just apply to Naruto and Sasuke because it was suggested to other characters like Sakura by Kakashi and implied through the actions of others like Kankuro surpassing Sasori's puppet technique with his own and Gaara defeating his father.