255 replies to this topic

[candycane-chan]

the kages will arrive too, and i dont think that sasuke will fight on the battle too because if he fights he wont the the last villain wich i think kishimoto is doing him to be, kishi is going to give sasuke a motivation.

but we still dont know what happened to the kages and by motivation you mean a motivation to become a villain right?

[Luna]

Things got really interesting......................but kishi why make us suffer why not do a double chapter

Agreed, it can't be the only reason. It may be what started it but there's much more to it. If he were still mad about just that, he would've killed Kakashi for revenge not gone into this crazy mode where he wants to be no one and wipe out this whole reality.

^^^This!!! I think Rin is only half of the reason and also I think the incident withe uchiha clan is also one.

Reason for edit: Combined posts. Please don't double post. - tricksie

[rockwill]

the kages will arrive too, and i dont think that sasuke will fight on the battle too because if he fights he wont the the last villain wich i think kishimoto is doing him to be, kishi is going to give sasuke a motivation.

i doubt that and even if they did they are going against obito and an almost perfect 10 tails they need the entire shinobi army to fight these two

[HalfStarStudios]

NO! Screw the Kages, they failed. They had there chance and they failed! It's time for the rookies to.... get there asses handed to them...

My goodness Naruto is in a bit of a predicament here.

Yeah they are kind of screwed lol Especially if Madara suppresses Kuramas chakra. SM is nearly not enough to fight either Obito or Madara. Actually even with Kuramas powers, Naruto would still lose to Madara. Also let's not forget about the Juubi Mazu. The Alliance better hurry up(though it's not like they can do anything).

Also if a Kage isn't dead, i'm going to rage.

[CloudMountainJuror]

...Well, so much for the big landmark chapter. Barely any explanation, and the explanation we do get is a completely cliched motivation. We now know that Madara knows Obito, but that's not enough. I hope Kishi has a better explanation planned because so far, this is incredibly disappointing.

Oh, and Kishi. We're still waiting on an explanation as to how Madara is still around after Kabuto disabled the edo tensei.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 05 September 2012 - 01:06 PM.

[Branden]

Madara knows the seals to edo tensei.

When Kabuto released the jutsu Madara simply did the opposite for himself to stop it aparently.

[Hiraishin]

So we were right, Rin's death was the reason. But, yeah, I'm guessing that's not the only thing that made him evil. Madara probably manipulated and brainwashed him, and her dying was the thing that pushed him over the edge.

Madara joining the fight should be exciting, but I wonder what happened to the Kages. ;-; Gah, a whole 'nother week.

[Branden]

Madara has no weakness and he is currently the strongest person on the planet. How the hell are they going to beat him?

[tricksie]

Yes but...I still don't think Obito is Obito.

• All the language murky language from Obito:

"You can call me that name if you want. It means nothing to me."

"Whether I survived or not is not important. However, yeah, if you really want to know why...."

• The flashback shows a very different young Obito than the one standing before them. One who had a ninja way of 'always protecting his friends' that he lived and died by, like Naruto. So to accept this new Obito, then we must accept that a ninja way, like Naruto's, could be discarded.

• Obito does blame his anger on Rin's death, but conspicuously assigns the blame to Kakashi. (To which Kakashi responds in a very Naruto-like fashion with a 'Well then blame me for it' - basically saying he'll bear Obito's anger to protect the others.) Why then leap from Kakashi to the world, when just taking down Kakashi would suffice?

However, I think blaming it on Rin is too easy. In fact, I think it's meant as a distraction.

So my theory is this: I think it's Izuna Uchiha, Madara's brother, in Obito's body. Madara is standing next to him at the end as an equal. He's too familiar. And as someone mentioned the only reason Tobi wanted Nagato's power was to resurrect Madara. So Kabuto has resurrected him, Kabuto is out of the picture, and now the two brothers — who fought together excellently and apparently never had competition issues like Itachi and Sasuke — are back in power again.

But in Obito's body, Izuna could still have access to Obito's memories, and therefore would still be able to screw with Kakashi's mind. So why not use that skill to its fullest capacity. Kakashi is a formidable threat.

And looping back around to young Obito's ninja way, the reader has to make a choice: Do we accept that a ninja way like Naruto's can be discarded? Or do we still believe that the 'I'll protect my friends,' 'I'll protect my precious people' mantra can withstand an ultimate evil and prevail?

I think in the moment when Kakashi's life is at it's end by "Obito's" hand, then the real Obito is going to reinhabit his own body just long enough to save Kakashi, telling him that he would always protect his friends. Then he'll say something like I'm going on ahead to meet Rin — just like Kakahi's father said about his mother, and Konan did with Yahiko/Nagato/Jiriaya — and Kakashi will be absolved of his guilt.

Having the good survive being dipped in evil also supports Naruto's quest to save Sasuke. That there is still good underneath everything, and only he can save him, just as only Kakashi could have saved the true Obito from Tobi.

edit: @Nefertieh, I loved your Rin in the coffin idea too!

[rockwill]

Ok so the enemy has obito who sends things to another dimension. they have madara who carries the cells of the first hokage as well as his own skills. they have an almost perfect 10 tails that will be revived any minute. on the other side there's naruto with karama's power that is weak against the first hokage and the sharringan. you have a star strucked kakashi. you have the rookie 9 on their way to the fight and Bee who is immobilized at the moment we also have naruto's clone still in the other dimension so if obito uses that technique again the naruto clone will counter it.

if only the sage of six paths were here

[Nate River]

A few things:

(1) Two Tomoe. In Obito and then in Kakashi. How does he have three now? It can evolve but not be shut off. Whatever Kishimoto. If the eye developed Kamui before that point how did Kakashi figure it out and why did he not use against Itachi? With that picture, I don't think this can ever be reconciled. It bugs me.

(2) Motivation: I was right about Rin (not really much of reach anyway) and while he won't say he blames Kakashi he clearly blames Kakashi. Two, it looks like my theory about Madara doing to Obito what Obito has done to Sasuke has some merit, but I get the feeling that's just a piece of it. I still have questions about the sequence of events as well.

(3) Naruto's behavior: While the correct course of action (stop the guy now, talk about stories later), it also underscores for me the downside to using Obito: Naruto's, the hero, basis for fighting suddenly became really generic. He doesn't view Obito (or at least he hasn't done so yet) as the dood that is essentially responsible for the murder of his parents, but as a guy who wants to do something bad and he must stop it. I get why Kishimoto might take that track (focusing on his parents blur the revenge line, which would be good (IMO) because it would be the closest he could get to being in Sasuke's shoes). A fight that was looking to be Naruto's both in terms of being the primary combatant and being his villain has suddenly just shifted to Kakashi.

I don't think it was a bad chapter by any means, but I'm disappointed. Maybe my expectations were too high this time. I was expecting more answers than we got. I think we'll get them, I just thought we'd get more based on the set up last time. So, I feel a little let down.

(4) Branden: No, I do not think Naruto would become Obito if Sasuke/Sakura died. Naruto's entire existence has been a counterpoint to people like Obito. It's seen in Gaara, Nagato, and Sasuke as well.

@tricksie: I can think of a number of ways to pull that off. I think it has merit too, but I don't know....

His arm melting off gives me pause (and the part of me that is intrigued by your theory looks at this and believes its possible), but the only thing that prevents me from agree withing you is that I think Kishimoto is setting up another life lesson for Naruto. Something that is easier to do with Obito.

[Codus N]

I don't think Obito's motivation is shallow or pathetic at all, especially since I think it was just a tipping point Madara used to warp his thinking.

The death of a loved one is what has been driving almost all of the major villains in this series - Orochimaru (dead parents which snowballed), Sasuke (dead family), Nagato/Pein (dead parents/teammate) - only with Madara do we not have a sob story yet.

Also, I think its significant that Obito is not looking for revenge - he's not blaming Kakashi, as he said. He blames reality - he has become completely disillusioned (again, something Madara likely had a large hand in), and is looking for a way to spare people the harsh reality of life by controlling them completely. It's twisted, but its not really a horrible goal, per say (like slaughtering everyone to feel your pain for example) - he wants to alleviate everyone's suffering, he just doesn't care about how he reaches the ultimate result. Very much like Nagato.

I agree that Sakura may play a role soon - perhaps if she heals Naruto when she first arrives to the battlefield, Obito will flashback and compare them to him and Rin - where he'll go from there is anyone's guess. Lashing out, using Sakura against Naruto - maybe to make him understand his point of view, to teach him a lesson about the way he sees reality now?

I'm probably starting to turn into a parrot by now, but QFT on the above. Especially regarding Sakura. I'm getting the feeling he will make some scathing remarks to her and use her against Naruto.

A few things:

(1) Two Tomoe. In Obito and then in Kakashi. How does he have three now? It can evolve but not be shut off. Whatever Kishimoto. If the eye developed Kamui before that point how did Kakashi figure it out and why did he not use against Itachi? With that picture, I don't think this can ever be reconciled. It bugs me.

(2) Motivation: I was right about Rin (not really much of reach anyway) and while he won't say he blames Kakashi he clearly blames Kakashi. Two, it looks like my theory about Madara doing to Obito what Obito has done to Sasuke has some merit, but I get the feeling that's just a piece of it. I still have questions about the sequence of events as well.

(3) Naruto's behavior: While the correct course of action (stop the guy now, talk about stories later), it also underscores for me the downside to using Obito: Naruto's, the hero, basis for fighting suddenly became really generic. He doesn't view Obito (or at least he hasn't done so yet) as the dood that is essentially responsible for the murder of his parents, but as a guy who wants to do something bad and he must stop it. I get why Kishimoto might take that track (focusing on his parents blur the revenge line, which would be good (IMO) because it would be the closest he could get to being in Sasuke's shoes). A fight that was looking to be Naruto's both in terms of being the primary combatant and being his villain has suddenly just shifted to Kakashi.

I don't think it was a bad chapter by any means, but I'm disappointed. Maybe my expectations were too high this time. I was expecting more answers than we got. I think we'll get them, I just thought we'd get more based on the set up last time. So, I feel a little let down.

(4) Branden: No, I do not think Naruto would become Obito if Sasuke/Sakura died. Naruto's entire existence has been a counterpoint to people like Obito. It's seen in Gaara, Nagato, and Sasuke as well.

1. That's easy. Kakashi never knew about MS until he met Itachi. Obito gaining MS is probably thanks to Madara. Kakashi probably discovered MS half by accident, and half by doing a little bit of digging in the Uchiha clan's history.

3. Yeah, it does feel a bit disappointing. But on the other hand, this gives much needed focus on a main character that has been ignored for a while. i just hope he doesn't repeat the Sasuke fiasco.

Tricksie, I think a better theory would be the one I posted in the previous chapter thread.

Theory --Click here to view--

Obito: Birthday - 10 February
Izuna: Birthday - 10 February

Obito: Bloodtype - 0
Izuna: Bloodtype - 0

Random similarities? I don't think so, is Obito actually a "replica" of Izuna?

We haven't heard anything yet of Obitos parents could it be that he isn't a real born ninja but rather an experiment done by Madara?

I mean that would explain why Madara took his time to actually rescue this "random" Uchiha. He already knew him so there was a point for him to be rescued. I highly doubt Madara just randomly found Obito under the rocks.

Tobi/Obito found out that he was nothing more than... well, nothing?

-Reasons for him to turn into what he is now:
He found out that he isn't human, his last wish got crushed = that girl that he loved didn't cared about him/she got killed (most likely), people knew about his connection to Madara/hate involved towards him.

Therefor = I am No One, as he stated is making sense.

What do you think?

To be honest, this is likely the perfect middle ground between the Izuna & Obito theorists. What if Obito is some sort of experimentation of Madara from the beginning?? what if he was a reincarnation of sorts of Izuna?? what if he was a nearly "failed" experiment because of the warmth Rin and his friends gave him?? the possibilities are endless.

Madara planned to use Obito against Konoha from the beginning, he planted him inside Konoha and until the time was right, he would use him. But his plan nearly failed because Obito embraced Konoha's ideology of peace and strength through love. Not only that, apparently he didn't turn out to be much of an Uchiha.... Until the Kannabi bridge incident.

If Rin were to be heavily involved, her playing the role of Obito's morality chain is definitely plausible. She's the one who prevented him from falling into the darkness he is in now. Basically, Rin was everything to Obito, and the warmth and love she gave him (although she never really realized whether she truly loved Obito or not), had acted as a perfect deterrent against Madara's ideals.

I think Madara implanted some kind of Jutsu similar to Sasori's mind jutsu into Obito, but it never had an effect thanks to Rin. Because of how important Rin was to Obito and how strong his love was for her, Obito unintentionally created a mental block preventing the jutsu from taking effect. By that point, Madara deemed him a failure. Until Obito's "death", that is....

[Nefertieh]

I think in the moment when Kakashi's life is at it's end by "Obito's" hand, then the real Obito is going to reinhabit his own body just long enough to save Kakashi, telling him that he would always protect his friends. Then he'll say something like I'm going on ahead to meet Rin — just like Kakahi's father said about his mother, and Konan did with Yahiko/Nagato/Jiriaya — and Kakashi will be absolved of his guilt.

The exact same thing happened in Trinity Blood. It was so sad.

edit: @Nefertieh, I loved your Rin in the coffin idea too!

Somebody needs to write a fanfic on this!

Actually, isn't it strange that Obito did not try to resurrect Rin? That leads me to believe there is a chance she might be alive.

[Gravenimage]

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no and NO! I don't want another changed bad guy, especially not Obito. This is the guy who killed Konan,manipulated Sasuke,Nagato and Yahiko and started a world war. If he turns good i'm dropping this manga.

Sorry man but I think Kishi has made his point of bad guys turning good with the parellels and all.

Edited by Gravenimage, 05 September 2012 - 01:45 PM.

[HalfStarStudios]

Sorry man but I think Kishi has made his point of bad guys turning good with the parellels and all.

And you guys will be happy with that? I'm done.

[pharix]

Orochimaru never "turned good" O.o

[tricksie]

Somebody needs to write a fanfic on this!

Actually, isn't it strange that Obito did not try to resurrect Rin? That leads me to believe there is a chance she might be alive.

So true about the fanfic. That's exactly what I thought too.

You're right about Obito not resurrecting Rin. That is strange. (And it's also strange that Obito didn't go right out after Kakashi, if his hatred is so deep.) But then again about Rin, Obito might have known that she would have been appalled at being resurrected and at what Obito had turned into. (That is, if this Obito really is the young Obito.)

It's along the lines of Konan having to partner with the reanimated corpse of her dead lover for so many years. She functionally lost both partners when Yahiko died. I think that stuff will mess you up. Naruto freed her from that and she was able to fight fully, die with no regrets and join the rest of her team.

@Nate, easy schmeazy! I just have my fingers crossed that Kishimoto has something else up his sleeve. There's definitely some mixed messaging going on. The whole "I am no one but I still have intimate knowledge of Kakashi's past" thing.

@Codus, so interesting about the blood types and birthdays. Just supports the whole Izuna-Obito connection.

[sushi.]

I think our big Boss will always be Madara. He'll never turn good, and this Obito thing can't be any more f**cked up, so I don't mind him turning good. Highly unlikely though, and he'll not be forgiven anyway.

[Transformers03]

Wow, 4 pages in, and NO ONE is complaining that a good portion of this chapter was recapping the events of the last Gaiden chapters? I'm just joking, overall I enjoy this chapter. My theory (well, one of my theories) has been proven right, that Rin's death was the main thing that turned Obito into, well, evil. I personally liked how Obito still acted like, well, like Tobi still. He still doesn't care, and he really doesn't have any emotions. He's still the villain. There's nothing for more me to add, other than the fact that I've been enjoying these last few chapters and I'm glad to hear everyone's theories.

[harry4e]

You'd think a 600's chapter who be something more that a recap of the Kakashi arc and 'you Obito?' 'You can call me that' 'Why' 'Because you let Rin die' Fight now talk later' 'Fire Jutsu' 'Madara is here to ruin the day' It too k me less time to read this weeks chapter than it took me to read last weeks almost wordless chapter.

So we have on one side, Naruto, Kakashi and Gai, who have been fighting non stop for over a day, and Madara who can't run out of chakra and Obito who is fresh when compared to the others. So we have another impossible situation, which can only come out with one of two situations, A complete loss with Bee and maybe Naruto captured, or Naruto awakens a new power thanks to the combined Chakra he has recieved from the other Bijuu, forcing them to retrieve.

I seriously hope Naruto doesn't try to relate to Obito going to the dark side to his moment of madness when he went all nine tails when Hinata was stabbed infront of him, or when he went four-tails against Orichimaru, and Deidara.