106 replies to this topic

[merryGOflava]

I am one of the people who still thinks so. Do you think if Sakura was a guy, she'd still be getting as little focus as she is now? She'd fight against Pein like Kakashi and Naruto had(not the fodder summon), fight with Sasuke like Kakashi and Naruto had, fight with Edo's like Kakashi and Naruto had. There probably won't be a need for a Shikamaru role in the rookies, as Haruno "Sakuya" is enough for it.

I'd be SERIOUSLY pissed off, if all these talks about teamwork ended up in Sakura fighting alongside the rookies. She's already had enough of teamwork as it is!!

sakura needs a heroine fight!!!!

come on!!! kishi!!! there are HOARDS OF ZOMBIES TO CHOOSE FROM!!

get her in the battle and let her solo some fool!!!

[Madz]

Nope, you are missing the point, Kishimoto has a dude make those comments then promptly get his ass handed to him or shown up by a woman. Starts with Shikamaru in part 1, he makes disparaging comments about women then gets his ass handed to him by Tayuya and is rescued quite easily by Temari. Because he is young and a heroic character he learns to respect women, including Sakura. Where he made a belittling comment to her face in part 1, in part 2 he clearly highly respects her, basically treating her as his equal.

Then you have Sasori make sexist disparaging comments to Sakura and Chiyo and promptly has to eat his words, as young and not yet at that point fully tested Sakura was, she destroys his puppets, fools him with her tactics, and he having thought he made himself immortal and unbeatable. Chiyo helps Sakura out, but as Chiyo says, Sakura does almost all of the fighting without her help.

Remember as well Tsunade is a suceeding generation (two) from Madara. Also remember as we discovered from Kushina's flashbacks Mito Uzmaki, Tsunade's grandmother played a crucial role in Hashirama's defeat of Madara. (and boy that had to stick in Madara's craw that a woman was the key to defeating him. Look how he absolutely pretends a woman, Mito Uzumaki, wasn't a crucial part of getting his ass kicked by Hasirama. Note as well- Mito Uzumaki had a forehead diamond- just like Tsunade does. Tsunade may have not inherited her grandfather's abilities, but she did inherit some of the Uzumaki- the high chakra reserve and control- enough so that she had enough with what was stored in her forehead diamond that she was able to save everyone still living in Konoha when Pain blew up the entire village. Mito and Kushina both had an extreme level of the Uzumaki abilities, but neither had the intense level of control that Tsunade has, the ability that has made her legendary as a medic nin (from what Madara said about Hashirama's ability to heal himself, means he had an unearthly control over chakra, Tsunade had some of that mix in with the Uzumaki traits she inherited from her grandmother. She is a mix of both lines.

Another example- Terumi Mei was in the process of defeating Sasuke with ease when Zetsu surprised attacked her, but even that attack had no lasting damage on her, as we've seen.

Kishimoto uses those sexist words to expose and cut down sexism, the male characters who spout them promptly get defeated by female characters.

TOTALLY agree with you - this is exactly how I'm seeing things too. I'm expecting Tsunade to really hand Madara's ass over, lol.

[Codus N]

yep... --Click here to view--

The more new information we find out about the past generation, the more certain I am that Kishimoto is planning some sort of prequel. (Maybe not a Naruto-canon-length one, but maybe a few years of mixing past stories with future epilogue stuff.) He is developing these old characters so much, and just before they die. It makes no sense. And the future generation has gotten next to zero development except for a very few.

I cannot fathom why Kishimoto's spending time introducing more character histories and development at this stage in the story unless he's planning on revisiting that past generation in a prequel.

At this point, for story cohesion, the action, drama and development should center around the cast of characters introduced at the beginning. We should be seeing each one of the 12 as coming into their own on the battlefield with flashbacks, etc. Instead, Kishimoto is continuously fleshing out the older characters, introducing history and storylines just for the sake of resolving them.

To me, it all points to prequel. (Which is good business, anyway.)

If Kishi does make spin-offs, it will probably be 3 prequels: Madara and Hashi's story, the Sannin's story and lastly, Minato's story.

The child of prophesy maybe? The tablets left behind by the Sage might have contained information on the child of prophesy who would one day either save or destroy the world, (Maybe contained information about him being able to tame the Bijuu as well,) it was strongly hinted that the Sage knew of such a person from his flashback scene with the chibi-bijuu, and naturally with the Senju clan all but exstinct and with the Uchiha elimitated, same with the Uzumaki, they must have believed Sasuke to be the child the prophesy spoke of (They did't know about the second prophesy made by the Toad Sage and with the Uchiha pride would assume it would be one of their decendents, specially as they know the Sharingan is capable of controlling the bijuu.). It is probably why the Uzumaki clan was destroyed as well, it wasn't mentioned but I got the feeling that it was Madara under the guise of the third Mizukage and using the Great Ninja war as an excuse to have the last known decendents destroyed.

Yeah, that's something interesting to think about. Itachi may have wanted Naruto and Sasuke to work together in the future. Hell, I think Itachi realized that there would be 2 children of prophecy. One would be Sasuke and the other would be Naruto. But the only thing is, the main actor is Naruto, not Sasuke as Itachi thought. Moreover, he didn't know that the requirement to be the child of prophecy is that the child must become Jiraiya's student. That's where his miscalculation was.

I advise you guys to read a different translation. Think it was shown in a site called narutobase or something. When I read the chapter on mangareader, I was annoyed because I couldn't understand the talk between Itachi and Sasuke. It was messy, to say the least. Itachi made Sasuke's life a living hell, Sasuke deserves answers from Itachi. But when I read a different translation it made much more sense. Itachi was going to explain the truth, when Sasuke interrupted him. Itachi also said, how Sasuke never listens.

Also, Madara didn't say didn't say, "You're a woman." He said, "You're a weak woman." He also didn't say, "weak are ugly". It was more along the lines of "weak are repulsive".
Anyways enough with the translation.

Am I the only one that thinks Tsunade is probably the strongest of the five kages? I mean Hokage is the main character's goal. I would expect the village the manga is centered around, to have the strongest leader. I also wouldn't think Kishi would make her alive this long for nothing. If I were Kishi, I would have killed her off at the Pein battle, were there no important upcoming battles for her(after all, there's Kakashi). Madara talking very low of her, isn't for nothing either. Reading so far, I do agree with him. And the more I agree with him, the more I would get surprised when Tsunade shows in battle, how worthy she is of a Hokage title.

And then, what about Itachi? It's still hard for me to believe Kishi made Itachi alive to defeat Kabuto. I don't see any reasonable answers to why he would make the dead defeat the second most important villain when he could have used current alive characters to do so. That's too much focusing on the dead. What about the will of fire?
I could understand if it were for the below two reasons.
1.) To fight with Sasuke and lose
This is to show how much stronger Sasuke has gotten before he fights with Naruto. It also buys time for Naruto, to finish his fight with Tobi first.
2.) To fight with Kabuto and lose
If one of the most reliable strong person is defeated by Kabuto, it becomes more devastating doesn't it? We really don't know how strong the new Kabuto is, and to pit him against Itachi is a clear way to see it.

What do you guys think??

Well then, I hope you'll be translating the raw soon once it's out.

[RedDelicious]

Just for once I want the current generation no not be over shadowed by previous generations for some ridiculous skill that they lack and have strength/powers worth acknowledging by the old generation and won't bring up that "You're nothing compared. to whoever the hell I've fought in the past" for once.

I suspect that if Madara didn't get the rinnegan-eyes, 1st-DNA, and zombie invulnerability, he would have been beaten by now.
But since he did get those power-ups, and he is winning (so far), he talks big, like he was always this strong.

As far as the "you're nothing compared to (so-and-so) in the past", keep in mind an old saying: the further back the fishing trip, the bigger the fish that got away. These dudes were impressive, but when you have the egomaniacs doing the remembering, they are going to exaggerate how strong they were. ("I only lost to the ninja because he had a 90 ft sword and the chakra of a 17-tail beast! And he got lucky! Otherwise I would have totally pawned him.")

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the current ninjas are much better at information gathering. They are having a tough time when encountering new foes, but the longer the fight goes, the better they will do. Pein was only defeated due to the intel by Jiraiya and Kakashi (and Naruto still almost lost). Quite a bit of the army was assassinated by the Zetsu clones, but after Sakura's elbow drop (hee hee) and masterful insight into Zetsu's "uhh... not really" (which let her figure out *everything*), the killings stopped.

Kind of like in baseball, if it is found out that a massive home-run hitter can't hit a slider, very soon he will not get another hittable pitch thrown to him.

Side note: Itachi is not going to beat Kabuto (in my opinion). Itachi is planning on defeating the Edo Tensei, which will most likely cause Itachi to crumble to dust along with the other zombies.

Edited by RedDelicious, 01 March 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[Darth Krypt]

I think Madara won't be defeated by the kages. Sure maybe the Kages will be slightly on par with him but ultimately, Madara will still be standing up after a long fight between them. He will only be gone once Kabuto is defeated. Itachi said he has to stop the Edo Tensei. Why? Which zombies are left that he finds the need to stop it? Yes, its Madara. That is why stopping the Edo Tensei will be the only way to stop Madara. If not Itachi won't find the need to find Kabuto. But I don't think Itachi will be the one who does it even though he's heading for him. Why? Because he's dead already. I don't think its good to let him save the world. Especially for such an important role. It has to be done by one of the characters fighting the war who is alive. The current generation.

So who do I think will do that? Its none other than Sakura. She has not been in any fight in the war. And she's the main character. She absolutely MUST have a fight now. And this opportunity is perfect for her. It will be the chance for her to be the heroine. Kishi said in the recent JUMP interview that he forgot about Sakura. Probably because he was busy settling other parts of the war because he planned Sakura to fight near the end. He did say he will make Sakura more into a heroine. I'm still holding him to his word, expecting him to deliver this claim. Now that everything is settled, the only enemies left are Madara, Kabuto and Tobi. It has to be a fight with Kabuto. If Sakura manages to defeat Kabuto, Madara will also be gone. That would make her the greatest heroine in the manga. Then Naruto, Sasuke and Tobi can settle their stuff. Its a long shot but I really hope this will happen. The story emphasize on new generation surpassing the old. So its only fitting that the K11 are the main heroes of this war because they are the current generation.

Edited by Darth Krypt, 01 March 2012 - 02:05 PM.

[Gravenimage]

Finally read the chapter and I knew there was going to be a Sasuke/Itachi reunion it's going to get eve better. At least Sakura and the rookies are fine as long as Sasuke is busy talking to Itachi.

[tricksie]

Yeah, that's something interesting to think about. Itachi may have wanted Naruto and Sasuke to work together in the future. Hell, I think Itachi realized that there would be 2 children of prophecy. One would be Sasuke and the other would be Naruto. But the only thing is, the main actor is Naruto, not Sasuke as Itachi thought. Moreover, he didn't know that the requirement to be the child of prophecy is that the child must become Jiraiya's student. That's where his miscalculation was.

That's what I think too. That Itachi must have known that Sasuke and Naruto would need each other somehow. That somehow Sasuke is crucial to Naruto and restoring peace. Plotwise, my only problem with this is what could Itachi know that Madara/Sarutobi/Minato/Kakashi didn't know? If Sasuke is crucial to Naruto, then those in charge of raising them should have known. Especially since it looks like the whole course of their lives have been predetermined like puppets on a string. (Sort of like finding out Genma and the other guy were Minato's special guard. Then where the hell were they when Naruto was living such a wretched life?)

And remember, Naruto also knows the truth about Sasuke. Whatever truth that is. He cut off the frog's prophesy saying he already knew it. So that's an important fact as well. Naruto already knows what lies ahead on Sasuke's path. (This is the ultimate power-up: Naruto's fortune-telling-no-jutsu.) A bit disappointing because, as I've already said, this takes the focus off Naruto and shifts it to Sasuke's development.

The tension isn't if Naruto's going to transform into a better person, overcome his own obstacles, it's whether or not he can transform Sasuke. Yawn.

It would be like if Harry Potter spent half his time fighting Voldemort and the other half chasing a petulant Ron Weasley. Sort of diminishes the hero's journey.

Anyway, I suspect that 1) Sasuke has been predicted to be the uber-villain. But that only Itachi and Naruto believe he can be saved. Or that 2) he's been predicted to be the second child of prophecy, like a yin and yang situation. Or that 3) Sasuke contains some key to controlling the kyuubi and/or Naruto. (And if the third scenario proves true, then it could be that Naruto only knows part of the prediction. Then he could enter into a final combat with Sasuke still believing he can save him, only to have Sasuke realize the power he has over Naruto and the kyuubi. So Sasuke and his revenge become a wildcard in the endgame.)

As for the Tsunade stuff, I agree with ciardha, madzy, et al.: Madara is goading her. However, Kishimoto has used this as a plot device to create a conflict between the two. My problem is not that it's sexist, it's just that it's kind of pointless. Madara has lots of reasons to want to take Tsunade down. And Tsunade has lots of reasons to want to fight him. It doesn't need to be because she's a weak woman, or the group medic.

Isn't the point of this war to try and get the kyuubi? But everyone's gone off to have their own personal battles. Most times it's no big deal. But here it just feels contrived. We're dying to see Tsunade fight. Kishimoto doesn't have to construct wacko sexist stuff to induce a fight. Just the fact that he's absorbed her grandfather should be enough! Add to that that he's going to destroy her, her village, everything she's ever loved, and the boy/futureHokage she's protected with her life.... Madara's antiquated attitude is pretty far down on the list of reasons to battle him.

*sorry if this comes off harsh, isn't meant to be. There's lots I like. I'm just focusing on the headscratchers in the plot.

edit: @darthkrypt, I agree I think Sakura will be a game-changer as well. Too many of her skills dovetail with the fight at hand for her to be left out. And actually, if Kishimoto has no focus on her at all, then it will be a huge surprise when she bursts back into the fight. Dynamic Entry!

Edited by tricksie, 01 March 2012 - 02:40 PM.

[Codus N]

That's what I think too. That Itachi must have known that Sasuke and Naruto would need each other somehow. That somehow Sasuke is crucial to Naruto and restoring peace. Plotwise, my only problem with this is what could Itachi know that Madara/Sarutobi/Minato/Kakashi didn't know? If Sasuke is crucial to Naruto, then those in charge of raising them should have known. Especially since it looks like the whole course of their lives have been predetermined like puppets on a string. (Sort of like finding out Genma and the other guy were Minato's special guard. Then where the hell were they when Naruto was living such a wretched life?)

And remember, Naruto also knows the truth about Sasuke. Whatever truth that is. He cut off the frog's prophesy saying he already knew it. So that's an important fact as well. Naruto already knows what lies ahead on Sasuke's path. (This is the ultimate power-up: Naruto's fortune-telling-no-jutsu.) A bit disappointing because, as I've already said, this takes the focus off Naruto and shifts it to Sasuke's development.

The tension isn't if Naruto's going to transform into a better person, overcome his own obstacles, it's whether or not he can transform Sasuke. Yawn.

It would be like if Harry Potter spent half his time fighting Voldemort and the other half chasing a petulant Ron Weasley. Sort of diminishes the hero's journey.

Anyway, I suspect that 1) Sasuke has been predicted to be the uber-villain. But that only Itachi and Naruto believe he can be saved. Or that 2) he's been predicted to be the second child of prophecy, like a yin and yang situation. Or that 3) Sasuke contains some key to controlling the kyuubi and/or Naruto. (And if the third scenario proves true, then it could be that Naruto only knows part of the prediction. Then he could enter into a final combat with Sasuke still believing he can save him, only to have Sasuke realize the power he has over Naruto and the kyuubi. So Sasuke and his revenge become a wildcard in the endgame.)

As for the Tsunade stuff, I agree with ciardha, madzy, et al.: Madara is goading her. However, Kishimoto has used this as a plot device to create a conflict between the two. My problem is not that it's sexist, it's just that it's kind of pointless. Madara has lots of reasons to want to take Tsunade down. And Tsunade has lots of reasons to want to fight him. It doesn't need to be because she's a weak woman, or the group medic.

Isn't the point of this war to try and get the kyuubi? But everyone's gone off to have their own personal battles. Most times it's no big deal. But here it just feels contrived. We're dying to see Tsunade fight. Kishimoto doesn't have to construct wacko sexist stuff to induce a fight. Just the fact that he's absorbed her grandfather should be enough! Add to that that he's going to destroy her, her village, everything she's ever loved, and the boy/futureHokage she's protected with her life.... Madara's antiquated attitude is pretty far down on the list of reasons to battle him.

*sorry if this comes off harsh, isn't meant to be. There's lots I like. I'm just focusing on the headscratchers in the plot.

edit: @darthkrypt, I agree I think Sakura will be a game-changer as well. Too many of her skills dovetail with the fight at hand for her to be left out. And actually, if Kishimoto has no focus on her at all, then it will be a huge surprise when she bursts back into the fight. Dynamic Entry!

Welp, unless PJ's theory is true, I'm betting my money on Minato being the puppet master of the entire Shinobi world since his death.

Edited by Codus N, 01 March 2012 - 03:02 PM.

[RedDelicious]

Isn't the point of this war to try and get the kyuubi? But everyone's gone off to have their own personal battles. Most times it's no big deal. But here it just feels contrived. We're dying to see Tsunade fight. Kishimoto doesn't have to construct wacko sexist stuff to induce a fight. Just the fact that he's absorbed her grandfather should be enough! Add to that that he's going to destroy her, her village, everything she's ever loved, and the boy/futureHokage she's protected with her life.... Madara's antiquated attitude is pretty far down on the list of reasons to battle him.

It's the other way around.
Madara has already said the primary reason he's targeting Tsunade is because she is the 1st's descendant.
If he was targeting her because she is a woman, then Mei would have been targeted too.

I believe that Madara's antiquated attitude is just to remind the reader to hate Uchiha arrogance, and to give him a reason to underestimate her. (As others said, I don't think she or the kages will outright win, but it will lead to a "what's going on? she should have been killed long before now" moment.)

Note: I just re-read the chapter posted on MangaReader. The translation has Tsunade mentioning that she is a woman (big surprise! ), but she does not acknowledge that she is a weak woman (or that being a woman makes her weak).

[Nate River]

I suspect that if Madara didn't get the rinnegan-eyes, 1st-DNA, and zombie invulnerability, he would have been beaten by now.
But since he did get those power-ups, and he is winning (so far), he talks big, like he was always this strong.

As far as the "you're nothing compared to (so-and-so) in the past", keep in mind an old saying: the further back the fishing trip, the bigger the fish that got away. These dudes were impressive, but when you have the egomaniacs doing the remembering, they are going to exaggerate how strong they were. ("I only lost to the ninja because he had a 90 ft sword and the chakra of a 17-tail beast! And he got lucky! Otherwise I would have totally pawned him.")

I don't think that is what Kishimoto is trying to do, though. Why have Tsunade basically accept that particular criticism if it's not true. Her response isn't "You're wrong, I'll prove it," but "You're right, but I can still kick your ass."

The Sage of Six Paths is set up as the strongest ninja ever right now and it would appear that Madara and Hashirama are a step below with everyone else falling below that. Although, based on his Edo Tensei in Part 1, you wouldn't know it with the 3rd (and not even at his best) holding his own against both him and the Second. It's like their two different ninja. I attribute that to likely not having not planned this far ahead at the time or being derailed with a lot of the Part 2 power-ups of other ninja.

And you know, now that I think about it...the Third was far more concerned with preventing the Fourth from reviving than the First. It really doesn't mesh with the man the first has been portrayed as in Part and I don't have any reason to think that Kishimoto means to say he isn't as great as everyone keeps saying.

Madara has benefitted from getting zombie-invulnerability and several power-ups from Kabuto (including the rinnegan)

Madara stated he "unlocked" it before he died. Unless that translation was wrong, the Rinnegan did not come from Kabuto.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the current ninjas are much better at information gathering. They are having a tough time when encountering new foes, but the longer the fight goes, the better they will do. Pein was only defeated due to the intel by Jiraiya and Kakashi (and Naruto still almost lost). Quite a bit of the army was assassinated by the Zetsu clones, but after Sakura's elbow drop (hee hee) and masterful insight into Zetsu's "uhh... not really" (which let her figure out *everything*), the killings stopped.

This seems more like a province of the the "good guys" rather than one of the newer generation.

As for the Tsunade stuff, I agree with ciardha, madzy, et al.: Madara is goading her. However, Kishimoto has used this as a plot device to create a conflict between the two. My problem is not that it's sexist, it's just that it's kind of pointless. Madara has lots of reasons to want to take Tsunade down. And Tsunade has lots of reasons to want to fight him. It doesn't need to be because she's a weak woman, or the group medic.

My sentiments exactly. When I saw that line, I was like, "No, no, no." Why are you reaching for cheap literary tropes when there is no need and when you set out a bunch of far superior reasons to single her out that far more compelling than that line? I was enjoying this chapter until that line. He gave a good speech and gave the appearance of a intimidating opponent (with an epic bout to follow) and Kishimoto cut his knees out from under him by reducing him to a sexist jackass.

And remember, Naruto also knows the truth about Sasuke. Whatever truth that is. He cut off the frog's prophesy saying he already knew it. So that's an important fact as well. Naruto already knows what lies ahead on Sasuke's path. (This is the ultimate power-up: Naruto's fortune-telling-no-jutsu.) A bit disappointing because, as I've already said, this takes the focus off Naruto and shifts it to Sasuke's development.

This may be the first time in a long time where I care more about seeing more of Sasuke and don't give much of a rip about what Naruto is doing at the moment. I have had more opinions of Sasuke than any other character and have at times loved and hated him. This is really the second or third time time since Team Taka (please Kishi, kill them off) that I've liked his character. With Itachi's redemption, Sasuke has become the more interesting of the two because there are so many deep-seed problems surrounding Sasuke...while Naruto is more about fulfilling the prophecy and the generic saving the universe.

Naruto's most interesting story lines were saving Sasuke and the Cycle of Hate, but Kishimoto has so simplified both of those that he sucked much of the interest from them. For the Cycle of Hate, it runs so contrary to the way people normally behave and feel, especially when wronged to the degree that some of these people have. People wanted retribution or at the very least, punishment and would not understand nor accept Naruto's ideal or at least...do so very easily. Unfortunately, the opposition to both of Naruto's goals and ideals has been nothing short of pathetic. I don't feel his belief system has ever been truly, either the challenge is weak (Raikage) or bypassed (Nagato/mass resurrection) It's probably my biggest gripe of the entire series.

Back to Sasuke, this chapter made me feel bad for him and further cemented that Itachi isn't really or even deserved redemption. As I understand it, Itachi declined to tell him and manipulated his emotions because (1) to protect the clans name and, now (2) so he would have to answer for his crimes against the clan. How utterly selfish. He attempts to sound remorseful, but it comes off as self-centered. He psychologically abused his brother for years and manipulated his emotions so that he himself might face justice. His brother is a complete wreck because of it. After that, I don't blame Sasuke for not wanting to follow his path.

In addition, Itachi says he spared him partly because he was a kid of that he didn't know. The implied assumption almost must be that there were no other kids or people who didn't know because Itachi comes off as an inhuman monster and the most selfish character of the manga if that assumption isn't true. At the same time, if it is it's one of the explanations that is tough to buy.

I ultimately felt bad for Sasuke because his whole life everyone around him has been manipulating him for their purposes. Itachi, Madara, Orochimaru. I even wonder about the village because Kishimoto never lays out what was done for Sasuke in the aftermath. We're they only concern about rearing a strong ninja? It's not certain. Sasuke, to me, comes of as a confused 16-year kid with full of hate and negative emotions who is completely ill equipped to deal with them. When Madara tells his the story (and even if it were the truth), he took away his only too for dealing with these feelings: revenge against his brother. He replaces it with something else. Sasuke's reasoning for targeting the whole of Konoha is really weak and this chapter certainly didn't help, but it is expected because I think in many ways he cannot deal with those emotions and simply needs an easy target to direct them all to, and Konoha is the easiest available to him.

I'm not sure getting the truth from Itachi will change him mind. If it's were just about false info then, yeah, it could, but it's more complicated than that. I'd almost hate it if it did because it would be almost too easy. Sasuke could then simply redirect them again at a villain rather than have to deal with his issues At the time same time, I wonder if he Naruto does force him to deal with them, if it'll fizzle out like Nagato.

Virtually, everyone in his whole life has failed him. Team 7 didn't (or at least came the closest to not doing it and I think because of that the final fight ought to heavily involve all of them and not be just Naruto v. Sasuke Part II).

I do want to add, that even with this I still believe Sasuke should still be held to account. What he has chosen is wrong and should be obvious that it is (especially the genocidal part), but I find him more interesting as a character because it. So, Itachi redeemed...no way. This chapter makes him look so bad.

[dokueki(venom)]

I don't see Tsunade winning but I know she well put up on hell of a fight. It should be interesting. I also think that Itachi should have said something more casue as it shows Sasuke isn't in his dark mode here and he actually somewhat is listening. Anything from Naruto won't really help Sasuke. Of course Itachi could have killed his clan for personal reasons as well and kept him alive. So if he does tell Sasuke the truth it could plunge him farther into darkness. I also think it goes with Sasuke finding his own path and Itachi feels that what he says to Sasuke shouldn't effect his decision. That whole your a big boy now find the answers on your own. Live your life not the clans. I don't know thinking is my strongest suit and this may just seem like random rambling. I can't compete with other people's annalist skills so I just go with how I see it. Bash my commits if you want. I don't really care besides it could help me a bit better understand the scene.

[Nate River]

I don't see Tsunade winning but I know she well put up on hell of a fight. It should be interesting. I also think that Itachi should have said something more casue as it shows Sasuke isn't in his dark mode here and he actually somewhat is listening. Anything from Naruto won't really help Sasuke. Of course Itachi could have killed his clan for personal reasons as well and kept him alive. So if he does tell Sasuke the truth it could plunge him farther into darkness. I also think it goes with Sasuke finding his own path and Itachi feels that what he says to Sasuke shouldn't effect his decision. That whole your a big boy now find the answers on your own. Live your life not the clans. I don't know thinking is my strongest suit and this may just seem like random rambling. I can't compete with other people's annalist skills so I just go with how I see it. Bash my commits if you want. I don't really care besides it could help me a bit better understand the scene.

I'm expect her to pull a "Gohan." Pull off an impressive feat of strength that proves her abilities, but is not enough to carry the day.

[harry4e]

I wouldn't be at all surprised that just as the Tsunade battle with Madara is coming to a conclusion, Itachi makes it to Kabutomaru, and releases the control over the Edo-Tensei Madara and Madara decides to go look for his pet Fox instead.

[FoolishYoungling]

The same was said about Sakura vs. Sasori. Yet Sakura won. Tsunade won't fight Madara alone though- it's already been emphasized time and again during this arc- fighting alone is the surest way to lose. Madara fights alone, he doesn't think anyone else is even a shadow of his worth, Hashirama was the only one he conceeds. We can see how Mito was able to play a crucial role in Madara's beatdown, it's absolutely obvious he totally underestimates women just because of their gender.

And yeah, the Uchiha definitely had a vibe of discrimination against even the women of their clan. The databook lists Mikoto as a Jonin level ninja, but it comes across like all the clan deemed her suitable for as a ninja was kunai training of her sons. And Mikoto was definitely subservient to Fugaku.

Contrast this to even the Nara clan, where while Yoshino may have chosen to retire from being a ninja (Chunin rank in the databook) when she had Shikamaru, we are made quite clear she's in no way submissive. Shikaku is quite comfortable with Yoshino having say with personal and household matters while he has the control on external matters. (This kind of arrangement wasn't unusual in Japanese households at the time Kishimoto was growing up in the 1970's and 80's.) Minato and Kushina's relationship is more reflective of the type relationships men and women in their 30's and 40's have in their marriages- much more a warm and close partnership, rather than the more rigid split in duties of the couples now in their 60's and 70's. (the 50 somethings fall somewhere in the middle of that, and because they created their families at the time it was shifting they tended to have more tensions in their marriages than those older and younger than them.)

Okay, I'm "Sakura Lover" and all, but we can all agree that the match wasn't Sakura vs Sasori, it was Sakura/Chiyo vs Sasori. But yeah, I agree, Tsunade won't fight alone. Together the will of fire will be stronger.

Edited by Sakura Lover, 01 March 2012 - 10:37 PM.

[TerrorKing]

Being able to heal himself doesn't say a lot about his ability to heal others (medic).
(Kakuzu had incredible regenerative abilities, but no one mistook him for a medic.)

Madara has benefitted from getting zombie-invulnerability and several power-ups from Kabuto (including the rinnegan).
Just because he's gloating like he was *always* that strong, doesn't make it so.
Looks like Madara and Sasuke share the same "poor winner" Uchiha trait: anyone that they can beat (even if it was a close match) has to be treated as inferior trash.

True, but still. For me it doesn't really have anything to do with whether Hashirama was a brilliant medic or not (he may be, but we don't know yet). It has more to do with the fact that, once again, a female character's abilities are trumped by a male character's abilities. I mean, look at Kurenai. Wasn't she supposed to be super good at genjustu, but so far all we've seen her do is use one technique. Instead, who gets to have all the cool genjutsu techniques? Itachi, of course. I dunno. I just think that the ability to heal yourself without using hand seals is a power that should have been given to Tsunade, or hell, even Sakura since Kishi won't even give her the ability to summon or use creation rebirth.

I could be totally wrong of course. Maybe im just paranoid after what Kishi did to Sakura at the end of the five kage summit arc.

[ramenanmitsu]

True, but still. For me it doesn't really have anything to do with whether Hashirama was a brilliant medic or not (he may be, but we don't know yet). It has more to do with the fact that, once again, a female character's abilities are trumped by a male character's abilities. I mean, look at Kurenai. Wasn't she supposed to be super good at genjustu, but so far all we've seen her do is use one technique. Instead, who gets to have all the cool genjutsu techniques? Itachi, of course. I dunno. I just think that the ability to heal yourself without using hand seals is a power that should have been given to Tsunade, or hell, even Sakura since Kishi won't even give her the ability to summon or use creation rebirth.

I could be totally wrong of course. Maybe im just paranoid after what Kishi did to Sakura at the end of the five kage summit arc.

Wasn't Sakura able to heal without using seals?

Remember Sasori said it was impressive she can heal her wounds while having the sword go right through her? She wasn't forming seals then, she was holding on to the sword.

[Dragunov]

Naruto can heal himself too. Remember the Valley of the end? He regrew a damn lung.

[merryGOflava]

Wasn't Sakura able to heal without using seals?

Remember Sasori said it was impressive she can heal her wounds while having the sword go right through her? She wasn't forming seals then, she was holding on to the sword.

...hmm??? really?? o_O or is that a hole on kishi's part???

but sasori did seem interested in that?

[ramenanmitsu]

Naruto can heal himself too. Remember the Valley of the end? He regrew a damn lung.

Yeah, the Kyuubi is very useful in those cases isn't it?

...hmm??? really?? o_O or is that a hole on kishi's part???

but sasori did seem interested in that?

It's not a hole, because Kishi intentionally made Sasori notice it and praise the skill.

Edited by narunarunaru, 02 March 2012 - 07:31 AM.