163 replies to this topic

[JG111580]

All I can say is WOW!

The fight was great, and I liked the fact that Naruto was able to use Sage Mode to battle the fox.
The 4th truly was a genuis to have creaed a seal that would protect and stregthen Naruto as he grew up, then reveal himself at a moment when the seal was about to break unintentionally (allowing the seal to be restrengthened and providing Naruto with some much needed confidence and inspiration), and finally to reveal his mother once the seal was removed intentionally with the key and the full force of the fox's hatred coming into play. While the 4th revived Naruto's fighting spirit, I think Kushina will serve the purpose of guiding Naruto to his greatest weapon against the fox... love. She will probably let him know how much his father and her loved him. She will remind him of how his love for Jiraya allowed him both defeat both Pain and the will of Nagato to bring about peace through fear. She might remind him that his desire to protect those precious to him is what has made him as strong as he is. When you love you give of yourself willingly without doubt or fear. If Naruto focuses on these feelings, maybe he can strengthen his will and erase the doubt and pain that the fox is now using against him. I really can't wait to see where this conversation goes (a mention of Sakura would be a plus, but I doubt it with the way previous chapters have gone). I also think that the 4th's seal is so much more complex than Killer Bee's that, when Naruto gains control, he will be able use the chakra without wild transformations. All the power will be condensed to his regular form with complete control. I don't see him and the fox becoming buddies. Who knows if sage mode will come back into play with its' limitations, but Naruto usually uses old skills to build new ones, so it's possible.

I also like the implications of this for the final showdown with Sauske. While the ability to use the fox's charkra is important, I think all of the lessons Naruto is learning about hatred will be crucial. Sauske has embraced the hatred in his heart, and Naruto will not only have to physically fight Sauske, but the hatred within him. I think this is where Itachi's gift will come into play. Maybe it will stop Sauske or link their minds for this type of confrontation. Plus, Sauske can't use the "you never had a family" excuse anymore in dismissing Naruto's claims to understand him. I think Karin's next evaluation of Naruto's chakra will be interesting. I think that while she showed Sauske's fall into darkness, she will likewise be used to show Naruto's growth. With the darkness within him erased, he will truely be Sauske's opposite.

I am also eager to finally see what "that jutsu" is and how Naruto will use it to defeat Madara.

Awesome!!!

[Insurrection]

@ciardha
I'm here to talk about the manga chapter here's what I saw:

Naruto beating Kyuubi, Kyuubi pulls a fast one.

Kyuubi tries to corrupt Naruto's soul, Yami Naruto is reawakened and fed hatred so Kyuubi ccan consume him.

He's fed with dark thoughts, all telling him to leave and go away forever from life. Another voice appears, Naruto's eyes widened, it's familiar, warm able to break the darkness, he looks up and sees Kushina.

This chapter is not about Sakura, it's about Naruto. Naruto was about to be fed to the darkness in his heart which Kyuubi would control and Kushina showing up. So I don't know why we need a reminder on Sakura's perspective when right now she's not the focus in the chapter. I'm not talking about character design or the freakin fanbase.

@JG111580 Man you're good! I never thought about the implications of sage mode, but it's said that personality from Naruto would reflect on Kyuubi. It would take awhile to notice though.

Edited by Insurrection, 04 June 2010 - 06:00 AM.

[ciardha]

This chapter is not about Sakura, it's about Naruto. Naruto was about to be fed to the darkness in his heart which Kyuubi would control and Kushina showing up. So I don't know why we need a reminder on Sakura's perspective when right now she's not the focus in the chapter. I'm not talking about character design or the freakin fanbase.

Er, I had one sentence about Sakura's feelings (and even that was in connection to Naruto's manga canon perception of her feelings about him), the rest was about Naruto's feelings about Sakura. This stems from tricksie and catsi guessing it was Naruto thoughts about what Sakura thought about him, and I pointed out how it couldn't be- because contrary to the original source of this common fandom belief- fanon: years of fanfic, and general fan mentality on western Naruto forums, this is directly refuted in the manga- canon.

Naruto never took Sakura's irritated outburst to mean she really hated him, and he always saw her as a positive force in his life, a precious person not only because of his love for her, but because of acceptance and friendship with him. Compare the comic reaction in chapter 4 to Sakura saying she "hated" Naruto (and his nonreaction at the bench scene in chapter 3 as well), to his reactions in chapter 1 to Mizuki's actual hatred of him and in chapter 2 to Ebisu's glare of actual hatred at Naruto. Like I said, Sakura's outburst had no more of a lasting effect than Kakashi saying he hated all of them after Naruto pranked him.

[catsi563]

I both agree with and sliiiiightly disagree with Ciardha here. I do agree that Sakuras ""so called "" hatred of Naruto is waaaaaay overplayed by fandom and widley misinterpreted. the ""one I hate is Naruto"" line was a semi comedic moment that was used to contrast the relationships between teams 7s members.

But i disagree that the I hate you in the recent chapter had nothing to do with Sakura. the darkness that was brought up in him can sometimes magnify the worst feelings which i think was Kishimoto senseis intent here. to show that Kyubis hatred was overwhelming him, even though hed already accepte dhis hatred earlier, kyubi brought it right back out again.

C is right in that Naruto has always viewed Sakuras as his most precious person that much is obvious. But until certain things are resolved between them though there is gonna be some doubts for Naruto and to me that is what Kyubis hatred is bringing up.

So to clarify; its not that he feels Sakura hates him like Ciardha says, but that Kyubis hatred is twisting the perception of that memory, and adding in a spoonful of the villages hatred on top for good measure.

[Black Rose]

And yeah! The spoiler was real! What an amazing chapter!!! XD

I wonder what is gonna happen next! Kushina should be Sakura's mother...!

[Gravenimage]

I both agree with and sliiiiightly disagree with Ciardha here. I do agree that Sakuras ""so called "" hatred of Naruto is waaaaaay overplayed by fandom and widley misinterpreted. the ""one I hate is Naruto"" line was a semi comedic moment that was used to contrast the relationships between teams 7s members.

But i disagree that the I hate you in the recent chapter had nothing to do with Sakura. the darkness that was brought up in him can sometimes magnify the worst feelings which i think was Kishimoto senseis intent here. to show that Kyubis hatred was overwhelming him, even though hed already accepte dhis hatred earlier, kyubi brought it right back out again.

C is right in that Naruto has always viewed Sakuras as his most precious person that much is obvious. But until certain things are resolved between them though there is gonna be some doubts for Naruto and to me that is what Kyubis hatred is bringing up.

So to clarify; its not that he feels Sakura hates him like Ciardha says, but that Kyubis hatred is twisting the perception of that memory, and adding in a spoonful of the villages hatred on top for good measure.

Agree catsi Sakura never hated Naruto during part 1 she thought he was annoying but when you look at it, I never saw Sakura calling him monster or demon she just called him Naruto. I also agree with you with the fandom overdoing her "so called hatred for Naruto " the fandom are always doing anything they can to bash Sakura or Naruto for the matter.

[ciardha]

So to clarify; its not that he feels Sakura hates him like Ciardha says, but that Kyubis hatred is twisting the perception of that memory, and adding in a spoonful of the villages hatred on top for good measure.

I don't think the hatred has anything to do with Sakura at all, look at how Naruto has always referenced it, it was always the adult villagers, he always talks about "their eyes..." looking at him with absolute hate, "always". Remember the as well the YamiNaruto confrontation- nothing about any doubts about Sakura's feelings, it was all about the adult villagers, who had hated him when he was younger now "wanting his autograph" and his doubts about the reality of their change, note he didn't even have doubts about the younger kids that greeted him enthusiastically, because like Sakura's feelings (and his other age peers too) there was no actual hatred ever there, they might have found him stupid and obnoxious but that was for things he'd actually done, not judgment laid on him for something he had no say or for years even knowledge of.

Now, it's possible the "him, only him" could play back into Naruto's residual jealousy about Sakura's 12 year feelings for Sasuke, but the hatred feelings quote, no, there's no canon evidence that Naruto ever mistook Sakura's words, any more than he did Kakashi's.

The hate quote points quite strongly toward Mizuki and Naruto's moment of traumatic realization of why most of the adults glared at him with hatred.

[tricksie]

I don't think the hatred has anything to do with Sakura at all, look at how Naruto has always referenced it, it was always the adult villagers, he always talks about "their eyes..." looking at him with absolute hate, "always". Remember the as well the YamiNaruto confrontation- nothing about any doubts about Sakura's feelings, it was all about the adult villagers, who had hated him when he was younger now "wanting his autograph" and his doubts about the reality of their change, note he didn't even have doubts about the younger kids that greeted him enthusiastically, because like Sakura's feelings (and his other age peers too) there was no actual hatred ever there....

Interesting point - all Naruto's recollections focus on nameless villagers. How many times do we see the graphic of him, alone, with everyone and their back turned, etc.

But what graphic do we get when Sasuke thinks about the village and how much he hates them? His peer group. I remember that odd quote about the people all laughing and having fun at the Uchiha's expense (poorly paraphrased, but you get the gist).

And the Mizuki thing is a good bet. Forgot all about that!

[Dreamer]

I don't think Sakura will be used in Naruto's hatred unless the Kyuubi tries twisting Sakura's confession scene but that likely won't happen since mommy is here now to help guide Naruto through this process.

[harry4e]

Well for all we know the reason Kushina is here is to give Naruto advice on love 'Now son, it's not very nice to tell a girl you hate liars, when a girl confesses their love for you' als not nice to ignore the girl after a confession.'

It would be great to see Kushina and Naruto talk about the normal day to day things that mother and son talk about, it would add more depth and emotion to the reunion I think.

[catsi563]

You know. feelings aside Im curious about Kushina. Not just what happend to her ((presumed died in child birth)) but how she got into the seal, or how shes appearing to him now.

If its because shes in the seal, then this implies that Minato told her what he was planning and she asked to be a part of it as well. Another fail safe just like his own.

and then again theres also the possibility of her appearing on her own due to the power of the two conflicting chakras or something like that. This would also be possible due to story telling tropes of the mother appearing at the right time to boost the hero etc etc.

[ciardha]

If its because shes in the seal, then this implies that Minato told her what he was planning and she asked to be a part of it as well. Another fail safe just like his own.

I'm hoping for this one, although I like the heartstring pulling "mother's love" even though it is kind of cliche. I like this option better because it makes her look emotionally stronger. It brings to mind a dying Kushina forcefully grabbing Minato by the collar and saying: "No, don't leave me out of this! I'm dying too, and I want to protect our son as well!" Minato can't say no to this request and grants it, so that for a moment in time each member of this little family plays a role in saving Konoha.

[pharix]

And yeah! The spoiler was real! What an amazing chapter!!! XD

I wonder what is gonna happen next! Kushina should be Sakura's mother...!

that would kind of make NaruSaku incest...

[James S Cassidy]

that would kind of make NaruSaku incest...

Unless Kushina had another kid when she had Naruto then no. They are not twins either.

There is no mention of Kushina or Minato having a brother or sister so they wouldn;t be cousin's. Kind of want to kill this "Star Wars twin theory" before it spreads like wild fire.

God, I hope it is not true. That would SUCK!!! We know Sakura has parents and Naruto's parents died the day he was born. Since Sakura is the same age as Naruto about, I doubt it.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 04 June 2010 - 07:22 PM.

[Derock]

These are just silly attempts and ideas of fans to force off Naruto and Sakura from being together as an official couple and paired them up with Sasuke and Hinata respectfully to satisfy their fandom. Ignore them.

[K9ofChaos]

All I can say is WOW!

The fight was great, and I liked the fact that Naruto was able to use Sage Mode to battle the fox.
The 4th truly was a genuis to have creaed a seal that would protect and stregthen Naruto as he grew up, then reveal himself at a moment when the seal was about to break unintentionally (allowing the seal to be restrengthened and providing Naruto with some much needed confidence and inspiration), and finally to reveal his mother once the seal was removed intentionally with the key and the full force of the fox's hatred coming into play. While the 4th revived Naruto's fighting spirit, I think Kushina will serve the purpose of guiding Naruto to his greatest weapon against the fox... love. She will probably let him know how much his father and her loved him. She will remind him of how his love for Jiraya allowed him both defeat both Pain and the will of Nagato to bring about peace through fear. She might remind him that his desire to protect those precious to him is what has made him as strong as he is. When you love you give of yourself willingly without doubt or fear. If Naruto focuses on these feelings, maybe he can strengthen his will and erase the doubt and pain that the fox is now using against him. I really can't wait to see where this conversation goes (a mention of Sakura would be a plus, but I doubt it with the way previous chapters have gone). I also think that the 4th's seal is so much more complex than Killer Bee's that, when Naruto gains control, he will be able use the chakra without wild transformations. All the power will be condensed to his regular form with complete control. I don't see him and the fox becoming buddies. Who knows if sage mode will come back into play with its' limitations, but Naruto usually uses old skills to build new ones, so it's possible.

I also like the implications of this for the final showdown with Sauske. While the ability to use the fox's charkra is important, I think all of the lessons Naruto is learning about hatred will be crucial. Sauske has embraced the hatred in his heart, and Naruto will not only have to physically fight Sauske, but the hatred within him. I think this is where Itachi's gift will come into play. Maybe it will stop Sauske or link their minds for this type of confrontation. Plus, Sauske can't use the "you never had a family" excuse anymore in dismissing Naruto's claims to understand him. I think Karin's next evaluation of Naruto's chakra will be interesting. I think that while she showed Sauske's fall into darkness, she will likewise be used to show Naruto's growth. With the darkness within him erased, he will truely be Sauske's opposite.

I am also eager to finally see what "that jutsu" is and how Naruto will use it to defeat Madara.

Awesome!!!

Nice perception on things but I have to disagree with you about Naruto not having "wild transformations". What would be the point of showing Bee use the different forms of the demon cloak against Sasuke and Kisame if Naruto wouldn't learn how to use that power. You've seen that devastating power he unleashed against Orochimaru and Pain. He has so much potential to harness that power to use to his advantage. He accepted the fact that he is a jinchuriki and it wouldn't make sense to me if he just remained the same when using the fox's chakra. Sure the seal Minato used is more advanced than Bee's seal but I don't think that it will let Naruto remain in his normal base when using the fox's chakra. Compared to the limitless amount of chakra of a tailed beast, I don't think sage mode can't evan keep up. If Naruto could combine sage mode and the fox's chakra, we should at least see what the fox's chakra can do by itself first.

[Insurrection]

Uh, but aren't we the fandom? We overdo things too, to think we're not is kind of ridiculous.

Derock, yes they are, but to actually stand in front of them and listen them try to back it up is hysterical. I was talking with a friend who blurted it out, I said prove it and they couldn't get through without saying Hinata is better for Naruto.

I think Kushina will be as I said, if she is personality wise more like Naruto she'll remind him who he is. It's not rocket science, but Kishi would give undertones.

Edited by Insurrection, 04 June 2010 - 08:21 PM.

[Dreamer]

I'm hoping for this one, although I like the heartstring pulling "mother's love" even though it is kind of cliche. I like this option better because it makes her look emotionally stronger. It brings to mind a dying Kushina forcefully grabbing Minato by the collar and saying: "No, don't leave me out of this! I'm dying too, and I want to protect our son as well!" Minato can't say no to this request and grants it, so that for a moment in time each member of this little family plays a role in saving Konoha.

I'm only acceptable to that if Kushina is dying of an illness or child birth otherwise it would be inhumane to do it out of free will leaving Naruto behind without a mother.


LOL, new NF telegrams pic!

Edited by Uzumakikage, 04 June 2010 - 08:37 PM.

[Insurrection]

[Strangelove]

• Yeah, Kushina, that was huge. Unfortunately, I think that means she must be dead. But now we'll find out what happened at the sealing.

• Lol @ Sakura as his sister. Next we'll find out Madara is his father. How much more Star Wars can you get?

• So did anyone Naruto remembering the village scene differently. In the past it seems like he was crying then surrounded by Iruka & Co., but his recollection now was that he was angry then attacking (albeit in his older gear, but still). That whole process changed in this chapter. No one stood next to him, so he was alone then, and looks like he was alone as he grew and wanted to attack. Reminds me of him remembering Sakura as only in Team 7, not as she is currently, when she was confessing her love.

• Also, has anyone gone through and corresponded the lines to any particular sources? I think the top one are overarching negative feelings, but they become more vicious as you go down the page.

"I want revenge" - could definitely be Sasuke, or it could be a general village attitude (although no one was ever shown physically hurting Naruto)

"I hate everything about you" - could be from Sakura's early days, the bench scene, etc. That's a very personal statement from someone who knows him. And the only person who's expressed themselves so forcefully about Naruto is Sakura, unfortunately. (But go NS! heh...heh....*ahem*)

"Him...only him" - could be jealousy of Sasuke

Yeah untill Kushina appeared, and we see the words No, you belong here...then saying Naruto will having her hand on her heart, it was very touchy ^^

Edited by Strangelove, 04 June 2010 - 09:17 PM.