277 replies to this topic

[merryGOflava]

i dont care when people say she looks cute, its when they say " shes done sooooo much for naruto!!!" and they only bring up when she jumped into the pain fight.....they cant name anything else.

so her popularity must be mostly based on her looks and attitude....nothing shes actually done.

[Miss Soupy]

I don't even really want to talk about Ron/Hermoine. It pisses me off like you wouldn't believe. Here we have this intelligent, beautiful young lady and all she gets is verbal abuse, insults, and put-downs by this little git of a boy, and yet she still loves him and ends up with him?!

It just disgusts me. Rowlings sends a terrible message to young women everywhere, by pairing Hermoine up with Ron after all he puts her through. It's the equivalent of Sakura ending up with Sasuke for me.

I never knew Ron was so hated. It's too bad, he isn't a bad character at all. In fact, I would compare him to Sakura in that, yes, he makes mistakes, but he has his heart in the right place generally and really just has his own inferiority complex to get over. Other than that he would die for both Harry and Hermione in a heart-beat.

I always found Ron/Herm to be obvious from the start of the series, especially with their argumentative relationship towards each other masking the actual care they felt for one another. *shrugs* It is similar to the little boy who teases the little girl, but he actually really just wants her attention because he likes her. It's cute.

With Harry's feeling for Ginny..that was pretty strange and out of no where for me. It definitely needed more development as Harry's sudden 'animalistic' jealousy over her wasn't romantic in the slightest.

[Sakura Blossoms]

I never knew Ron was so hated. It's too bad, he isn't a bad character at all. In fact, I would compare him to Sakura in that, yes, he makes mistakes, but he has his heart in the right place generally and really just has his own inferiority complex to get over. Other than that he would die for both Harry and Hermione in a heart-beat.

I always found Ron/Herm to be obvious from the start of the series, especially with their argumentative relationship towards each other masking the actual care they felt for one another. *shrugs* It is similar to the little boy who teases the little girl, but he actually really just wants her attention because he likes her. It's cute.

With Harry's feeling for Ginny..that was pretty strange and out of no where for me. It definitely needed more development as Harry's sudden 'animalistic' jealousy over her wasn't romantic in the slightest.

Ron/Hermoine was obvious. So was Harry/Hermoine. But Harry/Hermoine went the way of the 'brother/sister' relationship, which almost all Sasu/Saku and NaruHina fans say NaruSaku is destined to go. It all in the end depends on the whims of the author how these pairings will end. No matter how much 'evidence' we as readers see and collect, in the end we can get shafted pretty easily by the writer.

[Anguyen92]

To be fair, I thought Harry Potter would have ended on some sort of sick triangle, well maybe I didn't care, but besides the point.

Edit: I think we got to dump the Harry Potter discussion, we're get way off topic.

Edited by anguyen92, 11 June 2011 - 12:44 AM.

[Catwho]

Hah! I was a Ginny/Draco fan, how do you think I felt at the end of book 7? We was robbed!

I think a lot of the worship also stemmed from Hinata being the Not-Sakura. Sakura was a brat, she was in the way of Naruto/Sasuke so the yaoi fangirls hated her, and she was deemed Unsuitable For Naruto by everyone else, who then glommed onto Hinata as a much more "worthy" candidate. She's a nice girl; Sakura has a split personality and only appeared nice on the surface, and the readers saw right through this. It felt like she was deceiving everyone. Hinata's shyness was the complete opposite of that. Both buried their true feelings, but only Sakura was really faking it.

But then, Sakura began to change and grow as a character, as did Hinata. Hinata gained her confidence, and Sakura learned to better control the two halves of her mind. I don't think Inner Sakura is completely gone, but she's been tamed, much as Naruto tamed the Kyuubi. For me, Sakura has gone from Unsuitable For Naruto to Best Choice For Naruto. As children, Hinata was a better choice, but as young adults, Sakura has surpassed her by leaps and bounds.

I like Hinata. I want to see her character happy. Just with someone who isn't Naruto.

[ciardha]

I guess it because I've read so much fiction, but I knew it would be Ron/Hermoine from the start. I was surprised that Rowling made Ron so unlikeable in the later books though- he cheats on their budding relationship more than once, he acts like a complete ass when they (Harry, Hermoine, Ron) have to go on the run, and he even abandons them for several months.... Rowling keeps undermining what she should have been building up....

I also knew from the moment fangirl Ginny was introduced she was an author insert (the dreaded Mary-Sue) and would end up with Harry. Rowling's major romantic couples are pretty unappealing all around, look at who Lilly ends up with, even though Rowling herself said Lilly would have chosen Snape if he hadn't joined the Death Eaters, but Lilly changing over to fawning over the ring leader of Snape's bullies is what drove him into the deatheaters.

It comes through pretty obviously too that Snape loved Lilly far more than that jock bully James did. Rowling writes as if the Marauders were heroic, but they were just the popular jock bully boys- especially James and Sirus. There's been some interesting psychological examinations of Rowlings books, about what it reveals about Rowling, etc...

[Anguyen92]

It comes through pretty obviously too that Snape loved Lilly far more than that jock bully James did. Rowling writes as if the Marauders were heroic, but they were just the popular jock bully boys- especially James and Sirus. There's been some interesting psychological examinations of Rowlings books, about what it reveals about Rowling, etc...

Right, I kinda forgot that James, Sirus, Lupin kinda treated Snape like crap during their schooldays.

But then, Sakura began to change and grow as a character, as did Hinata. Hinata gained her confidence, and Sakura learned to better control the two halves of her mind. I don't think Inner Sakura is completely gone, but she's been tamed, much as Naruto tamed the Kyuubi. For me, Sakura has gone from Unsuitable For Naruto to Best Choice For Naruto. As children, Hinata was a better choice, but as young adults, Sakura has surpassed her by leaps and bounds.

Whatever happened to Inner Sakura anyway? Didn't see her at all in Shippuden.

Edited by anguyen92, 11 June 2011 - 02:06 AM.

[Broken Figurine]

Thanks guys, I really did get some thoughtful feedback from a few people, but I think I haven’t really clarified (I know that first post was kind of long—I wrote it one day as a rant) what the point of this topic is. I think it’s already been discussed why people like Hinata—I was looking more at how the popular character interpretation seems to be, strangely enough, mostly a fanbase creation. Heck, I think even some of the people who dislike her credit her with these traits that are never really shown in the manga. That and the fact that nobody seems to find it strange that she never once shows anything thoughts or feelings without Naruto somehow being included, particularly when there are people around her that should be closer to her who are suffering (branch family) made me really consider just what IS her true character.

Since people are hung up on Harry Potter, I’ll use it as a bit of a contrast. J.K Rowling gave her character, Ron, a personality that could be picked up through his interactions, speech, and through what other characters make of him. Therefore; when people say “Ron isn’t bright” they can pull out from the text why the book supports that he isn’t a genius. Hermione as well, who is seen as a know-it-all, has that personality through her own dialogue, other character’s dialogue, and her actions within the story. Despite personal feelings about pairings and whatnot, if I said “Hermione cares about Ron, Harry and the Weasleys” we’d be able to say “Well, she showed concern/did this/said that when the character was in such-and-such situation and others say she is this-that-and-that towards them.”

With the character Hinata, Kishimoto doesn’t really give her attention outside of Naruto the character. Since it was brought up, the fact that most people consider her a beautiful perhaps even moreso than Sakura. Aside from your personal preferences, what has Kishimoto shown about Hinata’s attractiveness? Is Hinata ever said to be beautiful? Does a character say “You know that Hyuuga girl? She’s a real hottie.” If she is meant to be more beautiful than Sakura, does a character say “Although Sakura is cute, I think Hinata is a real beauty”? In story, her appearance isn’t really touched on. Tsunade has been called beautiful, I believe—as has Sakura and Kushina. One can argue that the panel emphasizing her chest, it shows her to be physically attractive at least for the readers (if you think that’s fanservice or as some reference to Hinata’s attractive side). So, are looks a big part of her character? In the story… No.

Then we have her interactions with other characters. It is assumed, and I’ve seen in many fanfics, that one of Hinata’s goals to becoming stronger is proving herself to her father and helping Neji bring the Hyuuga clan together, and has been sympathetic to her cousin but “just wasn’t able to show it” due to being shy (which I would say is one of the few established traits that Kishimoto gives her). When does she ever say, do, or think something to portray this? Do Neji, Hanabi or her father suggest she may have approached them and said/done anything? Does Neji ever say “Before, I used to hate her, but after all these years, the things we’ve been through, I can confidently stand by her side and fight” or whatever? I don’t think anyone had complained when they were shown during this war back to back, with her father making that speech that it’s “not the same” anymore, that we were supposed to accept that Neji and Hinata are all close now and standing as equals. That was a case of “Tell, not show”. However, that belief had been around even before this scene, so it was just one large assumption.

Is it kind of clear now where I was going with this? It’s the fact that Hinata, who is a popular character, is liked and portrayed within the fandom largely based on assumptions, even though Kishimoto does not show much outside of her love for Naruto and her shyness. I don’t think before this topic I’ve seen anyone really question the fact that her focus is solely Naruto-centric, given what her family is going through.
I wasn’t one of those fans that sympathized with her, because I had found it strange that we were supposed to root for her when Neji was clearly the person who should be pitied here. Even though his actions weren’t right, his portrayal as the jerkish stick-in-the-mud rather than a jerkish but also sympathetic victim of his family. Hinata never tried to apologize to him for what happened—not during that fight, and not later in the manga. She just was made to look like the weaker one who was being picked on and had to stand up for herself.

I still don’t think people are picking up on just how much this character is lacking, and that the fanbase and anime, not the creator, have created what is essentially the popular perception of this character. Whatever the reasons, from my standpoint, it is quite frustrating because this isn’t just a small group; it is a large majority of the fandom. That this character is thought to be kind and noble, when she has not said one word about the tragedy of her own family, not done one thing for the character she has admired all these years up until her confession, is just mind-boggling. I’m less concerned about why they like her, and more concerned about why it feels like I’m one of the few people to actually notice these issues. That, and other characters have been shown to have sympathy, concern, respect, etc towards multiple people, and actually portray within the series the traits often credited to Hinata, are characters likelier to be criticized. Sakura and Ino are probably the biggest victims here, but are said/implied to be beautiful, kind, selfless, sympathetic/empathetic to the suffering around them, and drive themselves to be better for the people they care about. Ino and Sakura have a more sisterly bond than Hinata and Hanabi, who really are sisters.

And, ummm... I'm sorry but, Harry/Hermione or Ron/Hermione can probably be discussed in a Harry Potter thread? I don't think it relates... Not even why NaruHina is not as plausible because aside from how that's probably the only aspect of Hinata's character. I think we all know why NaruHina doesn't work out--but it's more a discussion if it really is literally the centre of all her development. Naruto is Hinata's Sun, and how I've personally interpreted that is that he is the centre of her universe, so to speak. "She looks towards the Sun" in my mind, connects to how she only really looks toward Naruto... But overlooks everything else.

Edited by Broken Figurine, 11 June 2011 - 02:45 AM.

[Derock]

With the character Hinata, Kishimoto doesn’t really give her attention outside of Naruto the character. Since it was brought up, the fact that most people consider her a beautiful perhaps even moreso than Sakura. Aside from your personal preferences, what has Kishimoto shown about Hinata’s attractiveness? Is Hinata ever said to be beautiful? Does a character say “You know that Hyuuga girl? She’s a real hottie.” If she is meant to be more beautiful than Sakura, does a character say “Although Sakura is cute, I think Hinata is a real beauty”? In story, her appearance isn’t really touched on. Tsunade has been called beautiful, I believe—as has Sakura and Kushina. One can argue that the panel emphasizing her chest, it shows her to be physically attractive at least for the readers (if you think that’s fanservice or as some reference to Hinata’s attractive side). So, are looks a big part of her character? In the story… No.

Then we have her interactions with other characters. It is assumed, and I’ve seen in many fanfics, that one of Hinata’s goals to becoming stronger is proving herself to her father and helping Neji bring the Hyuuga clan together, and has been sympathetic to her cousin but “just wasn’t able to show it” due to being shy (which I would say is one of the few established traits that Kishimoto gives her). When does she ever say, do, or think something to portray this? Do Neji, Hanabi or her father suggest she may have approached them and said/done anything? Does Neji ever say “Before, I used to hate her, but after all these years, the things we’ve been through, I can confidently stand by her side and fight” or whatever? I don’t think anyone had complained when they were shown during this war back to back, with her father making that speech that it’s “not the same” anymore, that we were supposed to accept that Neji and Hinata are all close now and standing as equals. That was a case of “Tell, not show”. However, that belief had been around even before this scene, so it was just one large assumption.

Is it kind of clear now where I was going with this? It’s the fact that Hinata, who is a popular character, is liked and portrayed within the fandom largely based on assumptions, even though Kishimoto does not show much outside of her love for Naruto and her shyness. I don’t think before this topic I’ve seen anyone really question the fact that her focus is solely Naruto-centric, given what her family is going through.
I wasn’t one of those fans that sympathized with her, because I had found it strange that we were supposed to root for her when Neji was clearly the person who should be pitied here. Even though his actions weren’t right, his portrayal as the jerkish stick-in-the-mud rather than a jerkish but also sympathetic victim of his family. Hinata never tried to apologize to him for what happened—not during that fight, and not later in the manga. She just was made to look like the weaker one who was being picked on and had to stand up for herself.

I still don’t think people are picking up on just how much this character is lacking, and that the fanbase and anime, not the creator, have created what is essentially the popular perception of this character. Whatever the reasons, from my standpoint, it is quite frustrating because this isn’t just a small group; it is a large majority of the fandom. That this character is thought to be kind and noble, when she has not said one word about the tragedy of her own family, not done one thing for the character she has admired all these years up until her confession, is just mind-boggling. I’m less concerned about why they like her, and more concerned about why it feels like I’m one of the few people to actually notice these issues. That, and other characters have been shown to have sympathy, concern, respect, etc towards multiple people, and actually portray within the series the traits often credited to Hinata, are characters likelier to be criticized. Sakura and Ino are probably the biggest victims here, but are said/implied to be beautiful, kind, selfless, sympathetic/empathetic to the suffering around them, and drive themselves to be better for the people they care about. Ino and Sakura have a more sisterly bond than Hinata and Hanabi, who really are sisters.

And, ummm... I'm sorry but, Harry/Hermione or Ron/Hermione can probably be discussed in a Harry Potter thread? I don't think it relates... Not even why NaruHina is not as plausible because aside from how that's probably the only aspect of Hinata's character. I think we all know why NaruHina doesn't work out--but it's more a discussion if it really is literally the centre of all her development. Naruto is Hinata's Sun, and how I've personally interpreted that is that he is the centre of her universe, so to speak. "She looks towards the Sun" in my mind, connects to how she only really looks toward Naruto... But overlooks everything else.

1st Bold point: THANK YOU for saying the most important one that these fans are talking about while defending their goddess. On the manga and even in the anime, not ONE single person had mention Hinata's appearance. Sakura had a couple of people called her cute or beautiful. Tsunade had some, and even Kushina. Hell, Ino had a "beautiful" comment from Sai, out of all people. Not one single character in the series mention anything of Hinata being beautiful or a true beauty, whatever.

And this whole thread... I have to agree with almost every single post because... how does this fandom loves Hinata despite the fact that she's a minor character with little to nothing to offer. It was supposed to be worked on in Part 1, especially at her fight with Neji but then I realized something just now. On the Chuunin Exams, we suppose to "root" for Hinata but then why was the spotlight focus on Neji? And he received the development. Something tells me... oh wait, in Part 2, she declared her "love" for Naruto during the Pain arc for selfish reasons, which lead her to "supposed death scene". So that means, Hinata's a plot device.

Now with all the stuff she's suppose to have: the family issues in the Hyuuga (which was more suitable for Neji's development), her status as the "Princess", her relationship with her father and sister (which is the major reason why we haven't seen Hanabi recently in the whole entire series)... if she's that important to the fans and the series, why didn't these stuff tack on? Why aren't these traits backup like they suppose to?

2nd bold point: Now this point is the real reason why I don't understand the Hinata/NaruHina fans made Hinata so damn popular out of almost the majority of the cast along with Sakura, but right behind Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi. But here's the thing, they focus on these good traits so much, that they believed she will NOT do anything bad. And that flaw: shyness and self-confidence, all pointed towards Naruto for which was suppose to be inspiration, not hero worship up to love. In other words, she has to be the perfect girl, especially towards Naruto's eyes (and their minds and eyes too) and have to get rid of the "pink harpy/b*tch". Yet, despite their wishes, how can/does she become that? Become the Mary-Sue of the series? (Which the anime tried to do).

3rd bold point: That first drawing of Hinata Kishimoto drew signifies and backup this point here. Now, if Kishimoto had of made her as a villager in his original notes, maybe this would've change everything. She will be in one scene and that's it because she will be in a status a very minor and background character, near the status such as Teuchi and Ayame's from Ichiraku. And then we may have another female ninja take her place in Team 8 (which will drastically change everything).

[ciardha]

I've brought up these points too about Hinata, I don't believe Kishimoto has "just left it out because she's shy" That's not how Kishimoto writes. I think he's done it on purpose to show that Hinata isn't this perfect character the anime and fandom have created. I like how you spelled out the issues with Neiji in more detail than I have though. I focused more on the lack of concern she has shown in manga canon to Kurenai, who she was the favorite student of, and who stood up to her father for her benefit. One can't help but compare all the other favorite student and teacher bond (including Sakura to Tsunade, Naruto to Jiraiya, Shikamaru to Asuma, Lee to Gai, Minato to Jiraiya, etc... and see a stark difference. Even recent minor support characters like Karui and Omoi show an intense emotional bond to their sensei.)

Hinata may be a reflection of the Japanese "princess" type character who doesn't really see what is wrong with the system, and unconsciously puts Kurenai in the same "servant" role she puts Neiji, her bodyguard Koh, and anyone she's been taught to see as subordinate to her. Neiji in his part 1 rage rips open to the public the Hyuuga family mentality. Hinata never has been show to have ever had a thought of challenging it. Instead it's from Hinata's father to Neiji after he loses to Naruto that we see hints of how he recognized the injustice of the Hyuuga family system- I noticed he had not yet placed the caged bird seal on 8 year old Hanabi's forehead in part 1 (remember Neiji received his at 4)

[Broken Figurine]

I've brought up these points too about Hinata, I don't believe Kishimoto has "just left it out because she's shy" That's not how Kishimoto writes. I think he's done it on purpose to show that Hinata isn't this perfect character the anime and fandom have created. I like how you spelled out the issues with Neiji in more detail than I have though. I focused more on the lack of concern she has shown in manga canon to Kurenai, who she was the favorite student of, and who stood up to her father for her benefit. One can't help but compare all the other favorite student and teacher bond (including Sakura to Tsunade, Naruto to Jiraiya, Shikamaru to Asuma, Lee to Gai, Minato to Jiraiya, etc... and see a stark difference. Even recent minor support characters like Karui and Omoi show an intense emotional bond to their sensei.)

Hinata may be a reflection of the Japanese "princess" type character who doesn't really see what is wrong with the system, and unconsciously puts Kurenai in the same "servant" role she puts Neiji, her bodyguard Koh, and anyone she's been taught to see as subordinate to her. Neiji in his part 1 rage rips open to the public the Hyuuga family mentality. Hinata never has been show to have ever had a thought of challenging it. Instead it's from Hinata's father to Neiji after he loses to Naruto that we see hints of how he recognized the injustice of the Hyuuga family system- I noticed he had not yet placed the caged bird seal on 8 year old Hanabi's forehead in part 1 (remember Neiji received his at 4)

I agree, I don't see why if an author has an intent for a character, that he doesn't put it in. I can understand if the story takes up too much focus that some ideas get left behind, but Kishimoto has clearly been able to provide us story for other characters. They may play minor roles, but that doesn't mean that they can't show us their ideals, bonds, and personality when they do show up. Even Tenten. When Kiba was scolding Ino, who was crying (was it Kiba? Please correct me) Tenten scolded him to consider how she was feeling. Ino isn't even on Tenten's team. Tenten's role is as minor as it can get, but even she is shown with a range of attitude and dialogue. In theory, Hinata should have one of the more significant roles--being Naruto's love interest and being the "hime" of a prominent clan. Why doesn't Kishimoto develop her more, give her more depth beyond "she's shy and loves Naruto very much"? Who knows, but it makes you wonder...

That would actually be an interesting flaw, if it was actually worked into the manga. If she had given any indication (or other characters) that her lack of interaction or doing anything with the branch family was a result of the way she was raised, then it could make more sense. Unfortunately, the closest I can recall of her significance being the hime and part of the main branch was during the pain arc (and not the filler additions in the anime). I also noticed that Hinata's father seems to be more apologetic/care more about Neji than Hinata does. I've also wondered if Hanabi, being born second, was then a branch member. They should really work on getting those things off...

EDIT: Yes, I was wondering about Kurenai too. Her lover died, she's a single mom, but nothing from Hinata or any of her students. Team 8 has the least shown interaction, I think, out of all the teams created. There is a big theme on teacher-student bonds but this one is left out. At least Shikamaru is going to be there for her, even if it is out of respect for Asuma.

1st Bold point: THANK YOU for saying the most important one that these fans are talking about while defending their goddess. On the manga and even in the anime, not ONE single person had mention Hinata's appearance. Sakura had a couple of people called her cute or beautiful. Tsunade had some, and even Kushina. Hell, Ino had a "beautiful" comment from Sai, out of all people. Not one single character in the series mention anything of Hinata being beautiful or a true beauty, whatever.

And this whole thread... I have to agree with almost every single post because... how does this fandom loves Hinata despite the fact that she's a minor character with little to nothing to offer. It was supposed to be worked on in Part 1, especially at her fight with Neji but then I realized something just now. On the Chuunin Exams, we suppose to "root" for Hinata but then why was the spotlight focus on Neji? And he received the development. Something tells me... oh wait, in Part 2, she declared her "love" for Naruto during the Pain arc for selfish reasons, which lead her to "supposed death scene". So that means, Hinata's a plot device.

Now with all the stuff she's suppose to have: the family issues in the Hyuuga (which was more suitable for Neji's development), her status as the "Princess", her relationship with her father and sister (which is the major reason why we haven't seen Hanabi recently in the whole entire series)... if she's that important to the fans and the series, why didn't these stuff tack on? Why aren't these traits backup like they suppose to?

2nd bold point: Now this point is the real reason why I don't understand the Hinata/NaruHina fans made Hinata so damn popular out of almost the majority of the cast along with Sakura, but right behind Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi. But here's the thing, they focus on these good traits so much, that they believed she will NOT do anything bad. And that flaw: shyness and self-confidence, all pointed towards Naruto for which was suppose to be inspiration, not hero worship up to love. In other words, she has to be the perfect girl, especially towards Naruto's eyes (and their minds and eyes too) and have to get rid of the "pink harpy/b*tch". Yet, despite their wishes, how can/does she become that? Become the Mary-Sue of the series? (Which the anime tried to do).

3rd bold point: That first drawing of Hinata Kishimoto drew signifies and backup this point here. Now, if Kishimoto had of made her as a villager in his original notes, maybe this would've change everything. She will be in one scene and that's it because she will be in a status a very minor and background character, near the status such as Teuchi and Ayame's from Ichiraku. And then we may have another female ninja take her place in Team 8 (which will drastically change everything).

Yeah, I think I first noticed it when I thought about the girls Naruto has shown interest in. He is said to be kinda pervy, thus sexy-no-jutsu, but the only time I remember him showing attraction to a specific girl was for Sakura in the hotsprings. That, and hearing about how pretty/ugly a character is, made me realize that even if you don't find a character attractive, it is only important on how other characters view the person. It would only matter, I think, from a romantic standpoint. For instance, I think Temari is really pretty and her attitude is appealing to me. Would I be able to find evidence that another character feels the same? I don't know. Also, Sakura in total has had three suitors after her--Naruto, Rock Lee, and most recently Random Nin. Doesn't that suggest that even if she's not like, omg, so hot, that she's appealing enough on some level?

I'm wondering what Kishimoto intends to do with her now. She's shown up in the war, and I've been put off. Actually, I did get a laugh out of "We're fighting this world to protect Naruto" line. The world is on the line, too... All that it's really shown me is that she's a good fighter on the battle field, but once again it was her father who was sort of 'telling' us that it's a lot better now! Offscreen implications, maybe? But as you said, that was kind of important, why not tack it on or show it in a small flashback or something? Not like the author is against using them... That's my problem when we talk about what might be happening "in secret" that just hasn't been shown yet or can't be shown. If it is supposedly happening off-panel, with no mention in the series, then how can anyone argue that it is right? We see it with many characters and pairings, of course, but at least then consider that hey, because it really hasn't happened, it's an assumption. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but if that becomes an excuse than really you're just filling the blanks for the character whether it is canon or not.

Edited by Broken Figurine, 11 June 2011 - 05:17 AM.

[Amrikandesi93]

I used to go on other forums and a lot of NH fans kept using the excuse that Hinata would make a better mother than Sakura also becuase she is kind and caring. They would say that Sakura would end up hitting the kid adn abusing him/her like she does with Naruto. Can anyone tell me how that makes any sense?
I mean I think Sakura would make a muuuch better mother, she only hits Naruto because he used to annoy her (and me) a lot. She is shown to be very caring and affectionate, while Hinata has not been shown to be anywhere near Sakura's level of affectionate. I do not doubt Hinata would be a good mother, but I just hate it when people are so blind to something that is in front of them or ignore something just because it doesn't fit in with what they want.

Naruto also doesn't like clans does he? If Hinata is the princess of the Hyuuga, then NH means that Naruto would have to be the future Hyuuga clan leader...... and have kids running around with byakugan.... which would in my opinion would be horrible. Naruto is all about hardwork like his dad and sensei, his kids don't need some powerful clan or bloodline. that would ruin his idealogy.

Theres really nothing wrong with Hinata, but she just would never have the same compatibility or emotions that Sakura would have/has with Naruto.
She just will never have that special bond and connection that NS has.

[tricksie]

I agree, I don't see why if an author has an intent for a character, that he doesn't put it in. I can understand if the story takes up too much focus that some ideas get left behind, but Kishimoto has clearly been able to provide us story for other characters. They may play minor roles, but that doesn't mean that they can't show us their ideals, bonds, and personality when they do show up.... In theory, Hinata should have one of the more significant roles--being Naruto's love interest and being the "hime" of a prominent clan. Why doesn't Kishimoto develop her more, give her more depth beyond "she's shy and loves Naruto very much"? Who knows, but it makes you wonder...

To me, Hinata is a sketch of a character: Just enough outlines to let the reader see whatever they'd like to in her. I think Kishimoto intended to write her this way. A supporting character who is defined by her unrequited crush on the main character. What is amazing to me is that her minor character has gained so much traction with so little effort. Wow.

So when I say sympathize, I mean that he has managed to put enough in her flimsy character that a large audience can find something to relate to. She's like character gold. And then again, I can see why Kishimoto hates her. She's completely outgrown the role he had for her, taken on a life of her own.

The funny thing is, the character of Hinata would not work if the story was not set up this way. imho. If Hinata was the main love interest instead of Sakura, it would lessen Naruto's plight, diminishing his heroism by not having to work for the girl. He would not be in the same boat as Sasuke, because he would have always had love waiting in the wings, there for him whenever he chose to see it. With Sakura, there is risk. She doesn't like him, like that. So he has to believe in himself through those alone years that he will persevere, thereby sharpening his bond/parallel to Sasuke. So, if Hinata, the long-suffering, long-loving shy girl was the main love interest, the story wouldn't work quite so well.

I wouldn't say the Hinata is a carefully crafter character. I would just say she was an intentionally crafted character who has run rampant. There is just enough form to her that readers are able to see what ever they'd like to in her. I don't think Kishimoto would develop her any more. He doesn't need to. And all these irritating contradictions are fan driven, not what he has written, directly. However, I think Kishimoto is fully aware of this fanbase now and intentionally writing to it, throwing out a little bone here and there to keep it going. But he has to do very little to keep those fans satisfied.

The story is about Naruto, his love for Sakura, his bond with Sasuke and his desire to be Hokage. Everything else is background. Even Hinata.

[Strangelove]

Why...are we mixing a British saga with a Japanese saga?

Harry Potter was one story, Naruto is quite another story. If the NH fans based they're beliefs based on that alone...then the disscussion is over, there is no real pairing war, just a silly discussion to which we already won even before it began.


On a side note, i found the books written by Rowling...a complete mess.

Back on topic...something about Sakura not being motherly...that is not true. Sakura hits Naruto because she thinks he is a pervert, not because she wants to, and if she was really abusive, would she heal him when he was you know...truly hurt?

Also, if Sakura was a bad mother because she would hit her kids...that would have made Kushina a bad mother because as i recall she hit Naruto...for being rude of course. This fans...they don't understand that the moments when Sakura has to act violent towards Naruto, is meant mostly as a comic relief, and in most cases she acts very neutral towards him, and sometimes there are hints that she has fallen for the guy.

And i have never...ever ever ever seen Hinata as kind and caring. Never ever ever. Her character is just shy and closed that is it. She doesn't show kindness towards her team, not that i remember. Believe me, everytime Kishi looks like he is going to show Hinata another character overshadows her.

Edited by Strangelove, 11 June 2011 - 01:48 PM.

[catsi563]

I posted in my one post what I thought of this worship, its cultural based and quite frankly ridiculous in its intensity for a completely minor and quite frankly Irrelevant character.

One thing though I will touch on is Hinata being a better mother then Sakura. this notion from Hinata fans is laughable at best outrageous at worst. Kishimoto himself in discussing the Characters has stated clearly that Sakura would make the best Teacher of the rookies.

While teacher doesnt necesarily equate to mother, it is well established that Sakura herself is by far also more domesticated in some ways. Inneras manifesto stated this maternal bend to the character best with this description.

At home, Sakura would be the Yoshino of the house! Yoshino is Shikamaru's mother. According to her databook entry, Shikamaru's brilliance may not have reached this level if not for her iron grip on the house. Shikaku has said so as well: a man is worthless without a woman.

But won't Naruto mind this level of abuse? Why don't you ask both Shikaku and Naruto?

This notion that Hinata would be this wonderful caring person like many things in her fandom is not only overblown but has no basis in fact. in point of fact as BF and Ciardha and others have pointed out it is quite the opposite. She has shown precious little caring instinct for anyone aside from herself. Most everything she does has been for selfish goals.

her confession, her desire to get stronger, her reason for fighting the war. All selfish.

[ciardha]

Back on topic...something about Sakura not being motherly...that is not true. Sakura hits Naruto because she thinks he is a pervert, not because she wants to, and if she was really abusive, would she heal him when he was you know...truly hurt?

Also, if Sakura was a bad mother because she would hit her kids...that would have made Kushina a bad mother because as i recall she hit Naruto...for being rude of course. This fans...they don't understand that the moments when Sakura has to act violent towards Naruto, is meant mostly as a comic relief.

And i have never...ever ever ever seen Hinata as kind and caring. Never ever ever. Her character is just shy and closed that is it. She doesn't show kindness towards her team, not that i remember. Believe me, everytime Kishi looks like he is going to show Hinata another character overshadows her.

Exactly. The hitting is just the shonen tsundere trope- it's just a comedic shortcut to playfully show the character is strong willed and passionate (in all context of that word).

Sakura is far and away the most compassionate of the younger characters. Look even early on in part 1- who stands up for Inari first- even though he was acting like a brat- Sakura. She yells at Naruto for acting bad toward Inari- "because he's just a little kid". Sakura picks up on Inari's acting out his pain before even Naruto does. Then we have the many examples- even in part 1, of Sakura's compassion for Naruto, it just intensifies in part 2. Even Naruto comments about her compassionate tears- "Sakura chan, you always cry so easily (for others)" during the rescue Gaara arc. Then you see her gentle compassionate assurance to Tami (the little girl she saved during the Pain arc). You see her gentle compassion with Tsunade, with the way she mourns Chiyo (look how fast that bond happened too, Chiyo quickly becomes a sort of grandmotherly figure for Sakura...) Sakura is likely going to actually be the best mother of her generation because she develops emotional bonds so quickly (even faster than Naruto does), is so compassionate but clearheaded and firm as well, and she'll love her children with the intensity we saw in Kushina. She's also capable of being playful and secretly likes pranks. Sounds like a fantastic mom to me.

Edited by ciardha, 11 June 2011 - 07:17 PM.

[Strangelove]

In conclusion, Hinata will continue to be a secondary...heck a tertiary character like Ten Ten...or Inari. Is the anime that glorifies her, and the fans who are way over the heads that make up for the NH shipping. My view is that if Kishi follows through with our pairing a lot of people are going to be dissapointed. Our response should be simple, read the manga from chapter 1 of Part 1, all the way to the end, and notice every single connection our paring had and compare it with they're pairing and then maybe they will see why it reached such a conclusion.

[CloudMountainJuror]

In conclusion, Hinata will continue to be a secondary...heck a tertiary character like Ten Ten...or Inari. Is the anime that glorifies her, and the fans who are way over the heads that make up for the NH shipping. My view is that if Kishi follows through with our pairing a lot of people are going to be dissapointed. Our response should be simple, read the manga from chapter 1 of Part 1, all the way to the end, and notice every single connection our paring had and compare it with they're pairing and then maybe they will see why it reached such a conclusion.

Agreed. Sad thing is though, they won't even bother, and if they do, then they will still insist that their pairing has more development than ours.

[Anguyen92]

Let's just face it nothing we can say, do , or show are going to persuade them to see differently. Even with Sakura resembling Kushina, they would/might say that Kushina looks like Hinata because of the long hair (saw that comment on a youtube video somewhere), uhhh hello, Sakura had long hair at one point and cut it off, effectively making her a better and more awesome person.

All in all, what we do is just wait it out. Is it possible to have a meaningful debate on the truths and opinions with this fanbase without bashing characters or trash-talking?

Edited by anguyen92, 13 June 2011 - 09:18 PM.