76 replies to this topic

[Iwantbuns]

Oh that's nice. People can talk and blame Naruto about not having guts for not confessing and moving on, but it is completely not okay to blame Sakura.

 

I damn well know kishi was at fault, but if someone says Naruto is at fault for not confessing, then I think definitely Sakura should be blamed very much for the reason Naruto didn't confess.

 

NS not happening the blame goes

1. KISHI (anything happening or not happening, he is to be blamed)

2. Sakura (according to the story she is the one who couldn't stop loving Sasuke, did a fake confession to Naruto)

3. No one else.

 

Even kishi said in his interview about that Sakura still loving Sasuke because her loving Naruto would make her a terrible woman( seriously what nonsense kishimoto), but this sentence justifies that Naruto only moved on after he was convinced that their is no chance for him now to gain Sakura's love.

This sentence clearly tells us that SS happening lead to NH happening, thus Naruto moved on only after he was sure that he is just a third wheel between them now in kittening way can make that stupid girl love him.

 

Neither Naruto or Sakura are to blame. Kishi is to blame, because he bent them both up by making Sakura go against the development she got in terms of her feelings and her personality, and making Naruto go against his very own ideals and dreams.

 

Kishi decided he could just flip a switch and make Naruto stop loving Sakura, and make Sakura turn right back into Part 1 Sakura. The Sakura we all know would never blush and ask to go with Sasuke because

 

- it was shown she didn't trust him

- it was shown she felt negatively towards him, whether or not it's love

- she would never turn her back on Naruto again and become selfish and completely disregard all her teammates and their safety and their trust

- it was shown that in terms of Naruto she is very selfless

- it was shown that while her feelings for Sasuke faltered, her feelings for Naruto grew more positively and stronger

 

Kishi completely bent Sakura up. And due to that, Naruto had to step back. Thus making him turn toward Hinata.

 

The demolishing of Sakura's character, and out of characterness of Sasuke's character, and the giving up on the girl of his dreams in Naruto's character was all done purely for NaruHina to happen. Kishi wouldn't have made a whole movie based on their love, if he didn't ship them. He developed it completely wrong, but it doesn't matter to him. 

 

Nothing makes sense, but he decided to slyly get away with it by ruining a lot of things that were established.

 

NaruHina probably seemed like the most deemable pairing, where he could add kids sprouting out everywhere without spending time actually resolving things in the manga that were unresolved. It was rushed and done very poorly.

 

Putting down Sakura's character = NaruHina love forever and ever lulz

 

 

I am not a troll, and you just like many other people are just too much in love with Sakura to see her being wrong and start blaming Naruto for NS not happening, whereas how Naruto was their for Sakura, it is Sakura who was in turn the gutless, a**hole who chose her abuser over the person who loved her so selflessly.

No unbiased Naruto fan(the series) will in his right mind think that Naruto deserves blame for NS not becoming Canon. It is just SUPER DOOPER SAKURA LOVERS blind to her stupidity like many people here that think Sakura deserved a confession from Naruto after what she said to Sasuke in 693 and 699 and NAruto is at fault for not confessing.

 

Sakura did have development. Kishi wouldn't have hinted at it so much if she didn't have any. True, in the end she picked Sasuke. But in the end, nothing in the manga that lead up to that makes sense for Sakura to continue loving Sasuke. It was done randomly, and seemed like it was purely to make NaruHina stand out more.

[starlitestarbrite]

kishi seems to be a DBZ fanatic but, the only difference was: toriyama put bulma/vageta, chichi/goku together to get the fans/editors to stop bugging him about a romance plot[i'm guessing that was why lol]...and kishi had a romance subplot of a lifetime [narusaku] it was perfect! but, then he screwed up, and put SS/NH for NO REASON!!! KISHI FAILS OVER 9000!

Edited by starlitestarbrite, 26 November 2014 - 11:33 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

kishi seems to be a DBZ fanatic but, the only difference was: toriyama put bulma/vageta, chichi/goku together to get the fans/editors to stop bugging him about a romance plot[i'm guessing that was why lol]...and kishi had a romance subplot of a lifetime [narusaku] it was perfect! but, then he screwed up, and put SS/NH for NO REASON!!! KISHI FAILS OVER 9000!

 

Not to mention Starlite that Toriyama-sensei handled the development for Goku and Chi Chi as well as Vegeta and Bulma better than Kishimoto-sensei handled showing it for NH and SS at the end of Naruto, plus Toriyama-sensei also did well with Gohan and Videl as well as Krillin and 18. Kinda sad how one does better at writing romance than the other does, huh?

[starlitestarbrite]

yup.

Edited by starlitestarbrite, 26 November 2014 - 05:54 PM.

[Nostradamus]

 

Yeah I completely agree. Kakashi becoming Hokage was pointless. Naruto was strong enough/acknowledged enough where he could have been Hokage after he saved the village from Pain. That was his biggest moment. Kakashi just became Hokage because Obito told him he had to, for whatever reason. It was probably added just because Kishi was picking and choosing what things to keep about the parallels. Keep the Hokage line parallels even though it didn't make sense to, remove the romance parallels to make things completely inconsistent. XD Bad choices in both cases!

What I don't understand is why Tsunade even allowed Kakashi to be Hokage. Seriously what happened to her that she decided to step down and let Kakashi take charge.

I can imagine the following conversation between them:

 

Kakashi: Hey Tsunade you remember my old teammate that died along time ago but later on we found out that he didn't die. You know Obito the one that started this war and killed so many people and traumatize so many more. Well do to Naruto's power of turning everyone back to the light side, he became good again. And Obito said that I should be the next Hokage. Even though I don't really care or what this position but I just want to screw with Naruto's dream. So I will be the Hokage from now on.

Tsunade: Ok if Obito said so, he must be right. I mean he did start this war and killed so many people, he must have a point. I'm out. You're the Hokage from now on. I'm done.

 

I'm still reading but my god, it's too great.

Thank you.

 

 

I'd be ok with an arc like that, because at least it'd serve a purpose. But I'd argue that Naruto being able to talk down Pain shows that he did have the maturity and ability to lead. Sure, he doesn't know all of the politics involved, but that isn't a big deal to me since its shounen and doesn't have to be completely realistic (in fact, it shouldn't be).

 

Naruto was always meant to become Hokage according to the story - where that becomes more interesting is if Naruto achieved that status in a remarkable/legendary way. He could have been the youngest Hokage for the Leaf, for example. Would have had a better story than him achieving god level, then waiting a long time before Kakashi steps down.

 

Nothing remarkable about that story.

Precisely.

 

Yes he was.

I love how this story treated the bad guys. Everyone is actually a good guy and people just misunderstood them. Deep down they're heart is filled with love. Sarcasm in case you don't get it.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Might as well do the letter that reads

Dear Tsunade,

You're out. He's in.

Signed, feudal lord

[Laylo]

 

How could Naruto have moved on and still look heroic though? Kishi used the excuse that Sakura moving on would make her look like a terrible woman. However, the manga isn't called Sakura. Or Sasuke. Or Hinata. It's called Naruto. He didn't let go of his feelings towards Sasuke, no matter how edgy he got. He's not supposed to quit. Out of anyone in the manga, he's supposed to be the one portrayed as never giving up.

 

There is no believable way he could have stopped loving Sakura as the hero of the manga. It's shounen. It's not supposed to be this complicated >.<

 

 

 

 

Right. Naruto never gave up on Sasuke, someone who tried to kill ever Naruto ever held dear including Sakura, but he did give up on Sakura, who stood by him, supported him, healed him, and confessed her love to him in front of her peers. 

 

Arguably, had Naruto confessed to Sakura and was rejected and didn't let that stop him from finding the Kushina to his Minato, then you could say he moved on without breaking the theme of 'never giving up'.

 

However, it is true that since Kishimoto said Sakura would be a terrible woman for moving on, Naruto is a terrible man for moving on. 

 

Not to mention if he did end up with Hinata regardless, she would still be the easy option/second place, because she was already in love with him. Like Nostradomus said, he wouldn't have to lift a finger by that point because he already earned her love.

 

The only way I'd accept NaruHina is if we actually saw her work for his love. Instead we got a movie where Naruto's going to realize it on his own after another dramatic moment or something.

 

 

What I don't understand is why Tsunade even allowed Kakashi to be Hokage. Seriously what happened to her that she decided to step down and let Kakashi take charge.

I can imagine the following conversation between them:

 

This is a good question and it brings up another really good one.

 

As I recall, The Third Hokage also had to retire and allowed Minato to step up. Arguably, Tsunade was getting old and wanted to stepped down. But if that were the case then why the hell is she still using that genjutsu to look young? It's hard to believe she's slowing down in her old age when she STILL LOOKS 20!

 

But I think another question is why the hell Kakashi stepped down? You KNOW he's young enough to keep going. And like you said it just adds to the overall cheapness of Naruto becoming Hokage in the first place.

 

Naruto didn't earn the Hokage title. He got it because Kakashi quit.

 

Lastly,

 

Nostradomus, you said that there was one panel that made sense in your rant. Which panel was it?

Edited by Laylo, 26 November 2014 - 07:21 PM.

[murdoc]

I don’t know how many of you saw “The Dark Knight” but in that movie there’s a line. And that line is: ”Because sometimes truth isn’t good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded.”

 

I was rewatching “The Dark Knight” the same day that I read 699 and 700 and that line has been stuck in my head ever since.

 

I even imagined somebody making a thread with that title and when you click on it you would see chapter 699 and 700 made by a NaruSaku fan that looks exactly like an official release.

[Nami]

What I don't understand is why Tsunade even allowed Kakashi to be Hokage. Seriously what happened to her that she decided to step down and let Kakashi take charge.

I can imagine the following conversation between them:

 

Kakashi: Hey Tsunade you remember my old teammate that died along time ago but later on we found out that he didn't die. You know Obito the one that started this war and killed so many people and traumatize so many more. Well do to Naruto's power of turning everyone back to the light side, he became good again. And Obito said that I should be the next Hokage. Even though I don't really care or what this position but I just want to screw with Naruto's dream. So I will be the Hokage from now on.

Tsunade: Ok if Obito said so, he must be right. I mean he did start this war and killed so many people, he must have a point. I'm out. You're the Hokage from now on. I'm done.

 

 

Yes he was.

I love how this story treated the bad guys. Everyone is actually a good guy and people just misunderstood them. Deep down they're heart is filled with love. Sarcasm in case you don't get it.

 

LOL! Oooor maybe he said something along the line of: Hey Tsunade, you know, Naruto should be the next Hokage. He really did a lot for this village and all its people. He's young, strong and I really think he would do a good job. Maybe it's time you get some well-deserved rest and step down.

Tsunade: Oh I guess you're right. From now on I'll step down as Hokage and will only help the next one bring the village in order. I love Naruto like a son and I'm sure he can do anything.

Kakashi: Yeah that's great... so I'll see you in the Hokage tower first thing in the morning. Don't forget to bring some cookies with you, we should celebrate my becoming Hokage!

Tsunade: What the... didn't you just say we should make Naruto the next Hokage?

Kakashi: LOL, no! Whoops, did I say 'next'? I meant seventh! First we need to brainwash Naruto and then make him go romance Hinata and try to make their relationship at least semi-plausible. I'll just save him a seat in the next few years!

Tsunade: You son of a....!!!

 

 

Yep, especially Sasuke. He's all about love that guy. Just look at all the people he actually gives a damn about! There's Naruto... and ummm... Naruto?

Edited by Nami, 27 November 2014 - 01:57 PM.

[Nostradamus]

 

 

 

Arguably, had Naruto confessed to Sakura and was rejected and didn't let that stop him from finding the Kushina to his Minato, then you could say he moved on without breaking the theme of 'never giving up'.

 

However, it is true that since Kishimoto said Sakura would be a terrible woman for moving on, Naruto is a terrible man for moving on. 

 

Not to mention if he did end up with Hinata regardless, she would still be the easy option/second place, because she was already in love with him. Like Nostradomus said, he wouldn't have to lift a finger by that point because he already earned her love.

 

The only way I'd accept NaruHina is if we actually saw her work for his love. Instead we got a movie where Naruto's going to realize it on his own after another dramatic moment or something.

 

 

This is a good question and it brings up another really good one.

 

As I recall, The Third Hokage also had to retire and allowed Minato to step up. Arguably, Tsunade was getting old and wanted to stepped down. But if that were the case then why the hell is she still using that genjutsu to look young? It's hard to believe she's slowing down in her old age when she STILL LOOKS 20!

 

But I think another question is why the hell Kakashi stepped down? You KNOW he's young enough to keep going. And like you said it just adds to the overall cheapness of Naruto becoming Hokage in the first place.

 

Naruto didn't earn the Hokage title. He got it because Kakashi quit.

 

Lastly,

 

Nostradomus, you said that there was one panel that made sense in your rant. Which panel was it?

I said it in my rant the only panel in 700 that makes sense is the one with Lee training. Everything else is broken.

As for Hiruzen stepping down to let Minato be the Hokage that made sense. Minato already proved himself that he was capable of being taking charge. Kakashi on the other hand proved that he's completely worthless. In this war Naruto did everything that Kakashi should've done.

For example dealing with Obito. Kakashi couldn't do anything about Obito, and then Naruto stepped up and handled that matter.

 

 

I was rewatching “The Dark Knight” the same day that I read 699 and 700 and that line has been stuck in my head ever since.

 

I even imagined somebody making a thread with that title and when you click on it you would see chapter 699 and 700 made by a NaruSaku fan that looks exactly like an official release.

Truth is no one really benefits from this ending. Yeah sure the NH fanbase got their pairing. But look how it happened if what we hear about the movie is true and then look at the outcome. In the end Naruto and Hinata have a loveless marriage.

 

 

LOL! Oooor maybe he said something along the line of: Hey Tsunade, you know, Naruto should be the next Hokage. He really did a lot for this village and all its people. He's young, strong and I really think he would do a good job. Maybe it's time you get some well-deserved rest and step down.

Tsunade: Oh I guess you're right. From now on I'll step down as Hokage and will only help the next one bring the village in order. I love Naruto like a son and I'm sure he can do anything.

Kakashi: Yeah that's great... so I'll see you in the Hokage tower first thing in the morning. Don't forget to bring some cookies with you, we should celebrate my becoming Hokage!

Tsunade: What the... didn't you just say we should make Naruto the next Hokage?

Kakashi: LOL, no! Whoops, did I say 'next'? I meant seventh! First we need to brainwash Naruto and then make him go romance Hinata and try to make their relationship at least semi-plausible. I'll just save him a seat in the next few years!

Tsunade: You son of a....!!!

 

 

Yep, especially Sasuke. He's all about love that guy. Just look at all the people he actually gives a damn about! There's Naruto... and ummm... Naruto?

Or that.

Edited by Nostradamus, 27 November 2014 - 04:35 PM.

[Midoriko]

 Nostradamus this was excellent! Thank you so much for writing it!

[Nostradamus]

 Nostradamus this was excellent! Thank you so much for writing it!

You're welcome.

[ahmadaziz]

Guys, guys, take a chill pill. Seriously, I come to this site to find some balm for my troubled heart and all I usually find is negativity and even more negativity - no disrespect intended to anyone.

 

So obviously we all know that NS didn't happen according to Kishimoto. And I am super bummed about that. However, if we keep ranting about it, none of us will be able to move on. And by moving on, I don't mean forgetting NS, I mean accepting that Naruto was fiction. Fiction is the imagination of one person. If we don't like it, we can always create a better scenario for us. I am not saying that we shouldn't be sad about what transpired. What I am asking you all is to be like the Naruto you all love - the one who never gives up, not the one who we all hate - the one who did give up and is now living a life that seems miserable. So let's all stop spreading this pessimism permeating all around and try to think positively and constructively instead. Like how exactly am I going to support what I thought should have happened. For me, I took a vow

to review every NS art I come across and by contributing myself in said art's promotion and addition

 

That sagely message given, I too would love to add my two scents to this thread because dammit if it didn't get my blood boiling.

 

First off, I can respect NH as a pairing. Sure, it was forced the way it was in canon because of a lack of development and the way it is being done now is so childish, it isn't even funny but still, I can respect it and it is somewhat sweet. You know . . . in the whole reversal of NS sense. Naruto truly loved someone who never appreciated it. He then comes to understand that there is someone who has loved him all along. That is NS with a genderbend. My congratulations to NH fans.

 

But SS is completely despicable and utterly disgusting. There was no reason given for Sakura's crazy love for Sasuke whatsoever other than the fact that he was the coolest kid in the block at the time, and that is just shallow. Then we get all the things he has put her through. If any person takes all that punishment and abuse and still claim to love said person with all of their heart to the point of being willing to leave your whole life behind for their sake, then I am sorry but I have no respect for you, only pity. I refuse to accept this and will remember Sakura as she was, a proud, hardheaded, short tempered but still somehow caring kunoichi. sigh, I would have preferred her with Lee and that is just ewww for me for some reason. I understand that just because Naruto went to hell and back for her, doesn't obligate her to love him back but come on, what caused her to fall in love with Sasuke in the first place when all he has been is a jerk to her at his best?

 

Next up is why this happened. First reason is that NH made commercial sense. And Naruto was a commercial venture first and a shonen manga second. It wouldn't have existed if it didn't make money for it's creators and publishers. And this has been done so many times with so many supposedly great works of art. Take Star Wars, Princess Leia was supposed to end up with Luke, then the creators realized that Han Solo was more popular and Luke was made her brother instead. So yeah, that happened.

 

Second reason I guess is the target audience. It was made for 12-15 years old. At that point, you want the coolest boy who is sort of a broken toy you can fix if you are a girl and if you are a boy, you want someone who loves you despite whatever hell you put them through. That is exactly what NH and SS is. It takes a more mature mind to appreciate NS. When you get old enough to understand how relationships work and realize what you really want in your life partner. It's like high school and real life. Both have completely different and opposite standards of what is cool/desirable and what is not.

 

Third I think is cultural and Kishimoto's own psyche. He loves his emos, especially Sasuke as he is the character everybody in the whole Narutoverse is obsessed with for one reason or another, and surprise surprise, he is the biggest emo of them all. And then every other 'cool' guy has a sob story in Naruto, aka emoism at its finest. I think its more of a cultural thing (The Japanese love their emos, seriously, compare Japanese teenage celebs with western ones) (Not being a racist or thinking less of anyone, just stating a fact that I believe to be true. I could be wrong.) I think that had Naruto been written by a western artist and/or publisher, we would have had a very different ending on our hands. Add to that Kishi's clearly sexist idea of female roles and you get what I am talking about. Seriously, I can't think of a single major female character in the whole series that didn't have her story revolve around her 'man'. Even Kushina turns into a housewife after getting together with Minato. Lets not talk about those who couldn't find a man (Tsunade is a drunk who can't move on, Anko gets fat, Mei is obsessed with finding a husband but is forever single, the list goes on)

 

And last but perhaps the most relevant, Kishimoto is abysmal as a writer. He may be a great artist and I'll forever be grateful for giving me NS but seriously, his writing skills are cringe worthy. Things just happen for no reason whatsoever other than things just happen. Go figure. And this isn't just exclusive for the ending, although it is most prominent there, it has been happening all throughout the manga.

 

I'd also like to ask clarification about something I feel I don't understand. How exactly is Naruto the bad guy for rejecting Sakura in the Land of Iron? He did the right thing for all intents and purposes. Even if he could've been with Sakura had he accepted her, he'd always have known that it was for all the wrong reasons. She wouldn't have been happy and only confessed out of a sense of obligation. And he would have felt terrible when he realized that Sakura had to sacrifice her happiness out of her friendship with him. And that is not Naruto at all. That is the lighter version. The harsher one is that Sakura was acting selfishly then and there. She confessed to get Naruto to break his promise as she was feeling guilty because of it. That is called manipulation and after everything they've been through, he should have felt insulted that she could think of using his feelings for her to make him do something he didn't want to.

 

Hope I didn't offend anybody, especially with the last part. If I did, know that it's 1 am in the morning here and I have been up since 7 am yesterday. So please chalk it up to my drowsiness.

 

Also, I know I am being a big hypocrite for saying this after my rant above, but still guys, it's high time that we as a community started acting more positively and try to channel our energies into something creative. Share ideas for fics, collaborate on art or just plain discuss the weather but please refrain from spreading negativity. I assure you, this is only holding us down.

 

God I need some sleep.

[milan kyuubi]

Bumping this thread.   Nostradamus love your posts!

 

 

 

 

Yeah, she said I love you and he reponded with an indirect "I hate you." Obito gets called a "cool guy" and he can't even muster up an honest thank you for Sakura? 

 

It was the only time Naruto uttered strong words of disapproval toward anyone in the manga — anyone out of all the serial killers and crazies he's come across — and it was towards Sakura, after she'd confessed her love and begged him to return home.

 

People still get hung up on the idea that Sakura was lying and manipulating. But Naruto was an ass, plain and simple. In her face, in front of their friends and teachers. It's the strongest statement of dislike he's ever made. 

 

And now, looking back, we should have seen this crap ending coming. Kishimoto was right! He really doesn't know how to write romance!

 

This goes with Kishimoto's stupid rules he forced on his own characters.

 

• Naruto can't become Hokage until he brings back Sasuke.
• Naruto can't admit his feelings toward Sakura until he brings back Sasuke.
• Sakura is not allowed to move on until Naruto brings back Sasuke.
• Naruto/Sasuke conflict can only be resolved in the last chapters/end
• Parings left for the end. Not letting characters progress for sole reason of baiting fans.

Characters become stagnant. Unable to have character progression. The "rules" I listed basically create a vicious hellish loop circle. As such I would say imo Naruto and Sakura's characters suffered the most. It's why in your post we have ooc Naruto. Naruto was turned obsessive and controlling towards Sakura post Pein arc. He wrote in his own mind what he thinks Sakura is feeling, wants etc. That no matter what Sakura does/say, if it goes against his opinion of her. He would label it false etc.

 

If we knew what was coming we would have seen this ooc horrible/disgusting writing much sooner. But we were tricked with crumbs and false hopes. Looking back. Naruto truly become 100% different manga post Pein arc.

 

Change the scenario. If Sakura admitted she loves Naruto in any other time. Before or after the "confession". Does anybody really thinks Naruto would be happy, elated? You know Kishi would have Naruto still be a massive jerk because Kishi wanted to milk the parings fans. And that's why those self imposed rules he forced on his characters led to utter ruin.

 

To add upon my points:

The rules imposed by Kishimoto on his own characters indeed had a significant impact on their progression and created a repetitive cycle that hindered their development. Naruto can't become Hokage until he brings back Sasuke. This restriction limits Naruto's personal growth and his ability to fulfill his aspirations. It puts an unnecessary condition on his path to becoming Hokage, making his journey feel somewhat predetermined and rigid. By breaking free from this constraint, Naruto could have focused on his own growth as a leader and a shinobi, rather than constantly revolving around Sasuke's return.

 

Similarly, Naruto's inability to admit his feelings toward Sakura until he brings back Sasuke restricts the potential for emotional growth and deeper relationships. It implies that Naruto's emotions are solely tied to his mission of bringing Sasuke back, which undermines his character's complexity and emotional depth. Allowing Naruto to explore and express his feelings for Sakura independently would have given him the opportunity to mature emotionally and develop more authentic relationships.

 

Sakura's situation is also affected by these rules, as she is not allowed to move on until Naruto brings back Sasuke. This limitation places Sakura's personal growth on hold, forcing her to remain fixated on a specific outcome. It prevents her from exploring her own desires, ambitions, and potential romantic relationships outside of the Naruto-Sasuke dynamic. This restriction stunts her character development and perpetuates a sense of dependency on the actions of others, rather than empowering her to forge her own path.

 

The conflict between Naruto and Sasuke being resolved only in the last chapters or at the end further contributes to the stagnation of their characters. While their rivalry is an essential aspect of the story, confining its resolution to the very end creates a prolonged sense of repetition and delays their personal growth. Allowing their conflict to evolve and find resolution throughout the narrative would have provided a more dynamic and satisfying character development arc for both Naruto and Sasuke.

 

Lastly, the decision to reserve pairings for the end of the story, rather than allowing characters to progress naturally, can be seen as a tactic to manipulate and bait fans. By stringing along readers with false hopes and crumbs of potential romantic developments, it creates an artificial sense of tension and prolongs the resolution of relationships. This approach hinders the organic growth of characters and can lead to disappointing outcomes for those invested in specific pairings.

Overall, these self-imposed rules imposed by Kishimoto hindered the character progression of Naruto, Sakura, and other characters, limiting their growth, emotional development, and dynamic relationships. By breaking free from these constraints, the narrative could have offered a more authentic and satisfying journey for the characters, avoiding the negative consequences that resulted from these rules.

 

 

Imagine scenario where Kishi did the points I listed above? The dude would have been international star.

Edited by milan kyuubi, 31 May 2023 - 04:31 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

I actually love the rules he put on them. But, he had to follow through with them.

[Nostradamus]

Wow thank you guys for resurrecting an almost 10 year thread. That was such a long time ago.

[totherpage95]

Wow thank you guys for resurrecting an almost 10 year thread. That was such a long time ago.

2014 was a pretty tumultuous time for ns to be fair