74 replies to this topic

[Nate River]

Yeah, but aren't you accepting a pairing that haven't had any major developments what's so ever when it first came into the picture way back in like how many years ago when this series started? And we're in its 10th Anniversary. Not only that, but copping out and ignoring a likely pairing that did have major developments and make sense since it has started slowly at the beginning and go directly towards one has minor and less screentime/development, sounds to me its more of favoring a certain amount of fans who want things happening their way and bad writing. The only way I can see and understand NaruHina can begin its development if and only if triggers something for Sakura's POV in terms of romance. And I also would like to add Naruto's views as well. Hopefully, it better be something that is staying towards his character and values.

No. In the second option, I'm assuming that part of the quality writing would include adequate development of NaruHina. My only points there were given the choice between my pairing preference and a quality story, I'd take the latter and that getting my pairing preference doesn't make this chapter any better.

[Mik3]

Did he though? I don't remember anything about a Sakura arc. He said during the Jump Festa 08 interview that after Sasuke he would write about Kakashi and Sakura. Naruto would have to wait. Well he did touch on Kakashi after Sasuke. But now Naruto has taken the spotlight since the new year. Only smashing a bug summon for Sakura. Did his SJ editors change his plans? I mean that couldn't have been it.

My hope is that Kishi said Sakura would have to grow up. We know Kishi usually kills people close to a person to accomplish this and I don't count Shizune. So there has to be more on Sakura. Maybe she plays a big role in the coming Danzou plot?

If I was someone without a dog in this race I would feel bad for NaruHina fans if this only turned out to be a giant Ship Tease for NaruHina that goes nowhere. Kishi would be a very cruel guy

Ive been saying that as well. He never really said he'd do a sakura arc. But I know from experience that when you're a fan of something, its not uncommon to put a spin on things. Its the reason why so many are pissed about these latest developments for the wrong reasons. To me, almost everything about this is being rushed. Pein came, and destroyed Konoha. Maybe even killed Kakashi. Then Naruto came back with his awesome new sage abilities, and then Hinata got hurt, and then Naruto turned to 6 tails, then got captured, turned 8 tails, got visited from Minato, broke out in sage mode, and now Hinata and the vilagers somehow are all doing fine. All in a few chapters.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

I don't know if anyone's thought of this but isn't the near death experience a great maturing factor for Hinata and for Naruto? Not pairing-wise but at least to show that people can die and Naruto may not be able to save anyone....Then I remembered Gaara's, Chouji's, and Neji's near death experiences too....

[Dormin]

Not to be rude, but who gives a rats ass what they think? I've met their kind before. The kind that put their ship over the overall quality of the manga and do not care if it goes slowly down the toilet as long as they get what they want. That's not a real fan, that's a pure shipper. Those are the type of shipper that's made me somewhat bitter on general fandom and it's overall cesspool.

Don't get me wrong, if NaruSaku were to happen - and let's not kid ourselves with worry, it's still the most likely - I'd love it to death and I would be pleased. I would not, however, stop bashing the direction the manga has taken. Much as I love my ship, I can't handle the fact that the manga's quality has gone in the trash; an undeniable fact at this point.

You didn't get my point, I didn't said "Hey guys watch out, the Nauhina fandom thinks this guy is a genius!" I was just pointing how hilarious it is to see the diffrent opinions on this arc.

Like us at Haven and earth.
These last few chp were like the doomsaday clock for this entire fourm, going from defcon 1 (Holy $#@%! Hinata confessed! what are we going to do?! the shipping is dead!!!) to Defcon 3 (Troubles over guys , she is dead, let's grab some coffee and a chow) to Defcon 1 once again (No! she is alive! darn you Kishi! so very unartisty of you!) don't know about you but this is quite a show to watch people changing their opinions from "great arc" to "pure crap" in a matter of few chapters.

It's funny (and quite sad) how after all this devlopment that narusaku had, just one confession and some people are yalling "Harryxginny is now!!!" like we wouldn't expect her to confess sooner or later.

And why do you go on to say that people who would call him a genius are hadrcore shippers? do you think every one of them is a kid who dosn't give a damn about the plot? I met alot of mature naruhina fans who love this arc not because they love the ship more then the plot, because they have a different opinion.

Im right now pretty much in the middle, so far great action, some totally awesome parts and I don't really give about the fact that people aren't dying by the thousends, as people said, this is Shonen, kiddies manga, so don't go on to expect a masscre.
Yeah it's a bit rushed, but after the snooze feast that was Sauske arc I don't mind it to speed up a little.

Edited by Dormin, 26 March 2009 - 06:15 PM.

[catsi563]

It is a great growing experience for characters but the key in this moment is that Hinata TRULLY should be dead.

the thing to udnerstand is that neji while hurt greatly, and Choji while in the process of dying were not in as great a danger as they appeared. I can see why they survived easilly.

Gaara was dead but was brought back via a one time technique. the key there was that it was a device to sue for Chiyo to show her growth from a bitter old ninja to one who would sacrafice her life for her village, and to pass on her will of fire to sakura and Naruto.

But In hinatas case. your dealing with a character that has had no plot relevance since part 1. even her part in part 2 could have been handled by any nameless hyuuga with no effort.

add in the fact that the Ninja standing over her was one who was responsible for wiping the leaf village off the map, and had enough precision to miss Narutos vital organs and yet suddenly ((if spoilers hold true)) goes in competent enough to miss a single unconscious chunins vital areas.

i mean seriously. this is a fantasy story which i very much enjoy, but there is a point to Call BS at and this ((again assuming spoilers stay true and she lives through this)) is it.

her death or her dying while passing on her will of fire to sakura is to use the TV tropes thing A heartwarming moment of awesome. as Hinata confesses to sakura and tells her to save naruto whom they both love. to not let him go no matter what.

it is a growing moment for the entire rookie 9 to lose someone that is precious to all of them in one way or another.

and it is a rallying cry for the entriety of Konoha to rally to fight against Akatsuki and its evil which cost them someone so innocent and sweet.

by dying in this fashion she cements her relevance to the plot and becomes a wonderful story element for the future chapters.

by surviving she renders the enire previous 3-4 chapters utterly pointless.

she goes from a wonderful relevant character to a completely meaningless plot device that could have been filled with any random character.

that to me is the honestly worst travesty of the whole thing. especially if as I suspect it came because the editors interfered as they did with sasuke earlier.

a trully awesome moment of story telling ruined by outside interference or jsut plain bad writing.

[dl316bh]

And why do you go on to say that people who would call him a genius are hadrcore shippers?

Because that's generally how it is. Far too many may end up getting what they want or think they're getting what they want and it blinds them to real problems. This is not exclusive to NaruHina's; I've seen it in this ship too and several others.

On opinion, everything will have people who like it. Everything. That doesn't, however, mean it's good.

Kishi may be many things, but no sane person would call him a genius. I don't care if he goes NaruSaku, NaruHina or NaruPein; dude's not a genius. He wrote an entertaining manga for a good long time before it went downhill in quality, but a genius that does not qualify as.

Edited by dl316bh, 26 March 2009 - 07:11 PM.

[Nee-sama]

You guys don't even know for sure that Hinata was knocked unconscious, everyone just says that it looks that way because of the fact you cant see where her pupils are pointed. To me it looks like she is looking up at Pain, there's even a shadow under her head that *could* indicate it's raised above the ground. IF she was conscious she would be able to deflect the stab just enough. How is that so different than Neji being shot with an arrow by a guy in Stage2 curse seal form with accuracy enhancements?

Maybe Hinata should have died in order to become a martyr but apparently Kishi has other plans (or maybe Catsi is right about the editors stepping in, who knows). Personally, I dont want to see a Hinata >> Sakura "love him and save him!" moment. And I can't agree that her confession is wasted just 'cuz she lived because we still don't know what Kishi plans to do with these developments. Kakashi will probably live too, but I don't think his sacrifice was a waste either because it allowed him to have a conversation with his father. If he does come out of this alive, he probably wont feel so guilty about how he used to be, and he may just be able to get over his grief!

I just don't understand all the complaints about her confession being a plot device. You could apply that term to anything that happened in the story. Sasuke dieing to protect Naruto from Haku was a plot device for Naruto to release his first bit of fox chakra. Sakura standing her ground and getting trapped by Gaara's sand-hand was a plot device to get Naruto to want to protect his important friends. Orochimaru taunting Naruto with Sasuke's name was a plot device to see the 4-tails. And on and on... Heaven forbid the author use his own characters to develop important plot points!

Sure, it feels a bit rushed but at least it's not getting dragged out. How many chapters has this 1 day already taken so far? It's not even late evening yet. Maybe Kishi wants to move on and show what happens next... Besides, the anime will make it seem much, much longer!

[catsi563]

I dont totaly disagree Neesama he does have to sue plot devices in that regard your correct.

but understand this is much different from that. unlike the other moments which had levels of development attached to them, each one of those had an emotional context and buildup of some sort which lead to the moment being a strong moment for the characters.

the Hinata sacrafice was a moment that literally came out of nowhere.

There has been zero zilch development beyond her showing a direct admiration of him. noone not even the hardest hardcore antinaruhina shipper can deny she admires him strongly and might even harbor some fantasies or fancies. sure thats easy to see.

but even sakura and sasuke have had more development ((thanks to Narutos little bench scene)) that when Sasuke said thank you it had some context and emotional resonance.

Hinatas confession came from nowhere. and in the end if she lvies it goes from being an incredible moment of emotional resonance to a cheap plot device to turn him 6 tails.

theirs literally no point in doing so. The same effect could easilly have been achieved with the death of a nameless civilian and had the same emotional resonnance since we all agree that Naruto would take the callous murder of anyone in front of him badly. especially if you put it on top of the destruction of the village which he couldnt protect, and the stress of not being able to answer Peins question.

all of the above combined would be enough to onlyr equire the smallest push to drive him 6 tails.

hence that is why Hinatas suprise confession becomes VERY important. because if its done and she dies by virute of passing on her sacrafice and will of fire to sakura ((a very important theme in the manga so far))

then her sacrafice becomes extremely meaningful. it acts as a story catalyst for several things including the grwoth and devleopment of many characters.

in that aspect she becomes the most meaniingful character in the story, where at one time her relevance to the plot had ended in part 1.

but if she lives all hunky dory ok and no consequences from the attack. then the enitre scene becomse a meaningless undeveloped plot device to make naruto go kyubi.

when he went 4 tails we have had upwards of at least 200+ chapters of devleopment to that point most of it dealing with Sasuke and narutos friendship, his promise to sakura, and the development of the jinchuriki aspect of it.

but with Hinata we had one moment where she gave hima boost in confidence before the match with neji. thats it.

THATS IT. nothing but that one scene. no further development, no further arcs. nothing. even the part where they teamed together they barely intereacted at all except to ask her to use her byakugan. a moment which could have been handled with a namelss Hyuuga genin much less Hinata herself.

that is why I personally am upset at her survival. what could have been an incredibly touching and heart warming moment MAY ((I stress may because we dont know wether the enxt few chapters may or may not still lead to ehr death))

MAY be thrown away for a meaningless plot device which renders her into irrellevance again.

even worse if this moment is used to jump start a naruhina relaitonship it becomes contrived and utterly unbelieveable. it ends up going from an amazing manga with loads of potential, to being the worst type of fan fcition trype.

Ive seen entirely too many fics where this occurs.

N-N Naruto kun I I L L love you.

Oh gee Hianta you do thats wow that incredible I think i love you too. Let me tell sakura to go take a flying leap off a cliff, and well go make babies.

seriously who could believe that? Any serious Naruhina fan should be insulted by such shoddy development. and such a blatant devaluing of the character herself.

As staed before I will see where hes going with this reserving judgment till I see the end product. but if this goes where it appears hes taking ti Ill be sorely disappointed.

[Paradox Jast]

Well, if nothing else, I'm thinking at least we are guaranteed to have Naruto confront Hinata, or visa versa, regarding her feelings for him. I mean, she was fully expecting to die to save him. If she does live, then it would just be incredibly awkward for them to go on knowing that, and not doing anything about it.

Just hope and pray that Kishi doesn't have them get together 'off screen', because that would be an incredible cop-out. (Or anyone get with Naruto off-screen, for that matter.)

[Dormin]

I dont totaly disagree Neesama he does have to sue plot devices in that regard your correct.

but understand this is much different from that. unlike the other moments which had levels of development attached to them, each one of those had an emotional context and buildup of some sort which lead to the moment being a strong moment for the characters.

the Hinata sacrafice was a moment that literally came out of nowhere.

There has been zero zilch development beyond her showing a direct admiration of him. noone not even the hardest hardcore antinaruhina shipper can deny she admires him strongly and might even harbor some fantasies or fancies. sure thats easy to see.

but even sakura and sasuke have had more development ((thanks to Narutos little bench scene)) that when Sasuke said thank you it had some context and emotional resonance.

Hinatas confession came from nowhere. and in the end if she lvies it goes from being an incredible moment of emotional resonance to a cheap plot device to turn him 6 tails.

theirs literally no point in doing so. The same effect could easilly have been achieved with the death of a nameless civilian and had the same emotional resonnance since we all agree that Naruto would take the callous murder of anyone in front of him badly. especially if you put it on top of the destruction of the village which he couldnt protect, and the stress of not being able to answer Peins question.

all of the above combined would be enough to onlyr equire the smallest push to drive him 6 tails.

hence that is why Hinatas suprise confession becomes VERY important. because if its done and she dies by virute of passing on her sacrafice and will of fire to sakura ((a very important theme in the manga so far))

then her sacrafice becomes extremely meaningful. it acts as a story catalyst for several things including the grwoth and devleopment of many characters.

in that aspect she becomes the most meaniingful character in the story, where at one time her relevance to the plot had ended in part 1.

but if she lives all hunky dory ok and no consequences from the attack. then the enitre scene becomse a meaningless undeveloped plot device to make naruto go kyubi.

when he went 4 tails we have had upwards of at least 200+ chapters of devleopment to that point most of it dealing with Sasuke and narutos friendship, his promise to sakura, and the development of the jinchuriki aspect of it.

but with Hinata we had one moment where she gave hima boost in confidence before the match with neji. thats it.

THATS IT. nothing but that one scene. no further development, no further arcs. nothing. even the part where they teamed together they barely intereacted at all except to ask her to use her byakugan. a moment which could have been handled with a namelss Hyuuga genin much less Hinata herself.

that is why I personally am upset at her survival. what could have been an incredibly touching and heart warming moment MAY ((I stress may because we dont know wether the enxt few chapters may or may not still lead to ehr death))

MAY be thrown away for a meaningless plot device which renders her into irrellevance again.

even worse if this moment is used to jump start a naruhina relaitonship it becomes contrived and utterly unbelieveable. it ends up going from an amazing manga with loads of potential, to being the worst type of fan fcition trype.

Ive seen entirely too many fics where this occurs.

N-N Naruto kun I I L L love you.

Oh gee Hianta you do thats wow that incredible I think i love you too. Let me tell sakura to go take a flying leap off a cliff, and well go make babies.

seriously who could believe that? Any serious Naruhina fan should be insulted by such shoddy development. and such a blatant devaluing of the character herself.

As staed before I will see where hes going with this reserving judgment till I see the end product. but if this goes where it appears hes taking ti Ill be sorely disappointed.

Well it looks like you allredy handed your judgment cat

Anyhow as much as I understand what you are saying, I have to say this, in some point, im glad he didn't went the path you wanted, because this thing has been done to death.
Having Hinata dying would have been the easiest way to deal with romantic loose ends.
I expected Hinata to die way before this arc as I didn't expect Kishi to drag us through a love tringle in a middle of a shonen manga.

So yeah, maybe I didn't get this as you said one ubar awsome/sad/heartwarming moment". but right now the love story, atleast for me, has become alot more intresting.

Edited by Dormin, 26 March 2009 - 08:19 PM.

[Sora no Kitsune]

As much as I would like to join in the Kishi bash, I would rather take a moment here to lol a little at the fact that while we bash Kishi as a bad fanfiction writer, the Naruhina shippers prolly right now are praising him as the next Tolkien

And another note, as much as the lot of you are foresseeing the death of narusaku and Hinata taking Sakura's role as the feamle lead, I would like to take a moment to remind you about the Sakura arc that Kishi has promised us. Not Hinata arc, Sakura.
Hinata's confession might just be the catalyst Sakura needed to confront her own emotion on Sauske and Naruto.

I was thinking very much the same thing. I have a feeling that with the "unexpected twist" coming up in 442, this ordial will end in such a unexpected twist only kishimoto could think of, and will then forward into the sakura arc. Maybe Sasuke comes into play? He hasn't been seen in who knows how long, so maybe he will pop in and do something. Maybe sasuke helps capture naruto, leading into a naruto retrival/ sakura arc. There is also a chance that when team Guy retrieves Hinata, they take her to the nearest medic-nin, which is most likely Sakura. Hinata could possibly tell Sakura about her confession, resulting in a pissed off and jealous sakura. Its hard to tell.

One thing is for sure though. Kishimoto has disapointed us in the past but always seems to make it up with a almost out of know where twist. I'm thinking that kishimoto is doing the same thing here and something so big and shocking will happen that everyone here bashing him will go to praising him, though that is my opinion.

Hinatas confession came from nowhere. and in the end if she lvies it goes from being an incredible moment of emotional resonance to a cheap plot device to turn him 6 tails.

theirs literally no point in doing so. The same effect could easilly have been achieved with the death of a nameless civilian and had the same emotional resonnance since we all agree that Naruto would take the callous murder of anyone in front of him badly. especially if you put it on top of the destruction of the village which he couldnt protect, and the stress of not being able to answer Peins question.

I also aggre with catsi here. To be honest, i think the death of the Ichiraku Ramen Guy (his name escapes me. I only remember him as "Old Man" according to Naruto) Would have a bigger impact on Naruto than the death of hinata.
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Naruto: OLD MAN NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! DON'T DIE ON ME. WHAT ABOUT MY RAMEN?!?!?!?!?!
Old Man: Sorry Naruto.... looks like....*cough*..... you'll have to..... start eating something....*cough*...else....*dies.*
Naruto: NOOOOOOOOOOO ARRRGGGGGHGHGGGHG *Naruto goes 6 tails*
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To be honest, this way makes alot more sence than Hinata dying and coming back. Atleast with this guy, we still get kyuubi action without having to worry about NaruHina crap and events that totally trash all the previous develoupment.

Edited by zman170, 27 March 2009 - 01:48 AM.

[Paradox Jast]

Ichiraku Teuchi

[Sora no Kitsune]

Ichiraku Teuchi

Whatever you get my point

[narusakuluv]

Okay, I think we should do a vote: 1. How many people are still really excited about this arc? 2. How many people think that it's crap since it's possibly the beginning of the NaruHina era?
Hopefully option 1 would win. Because naruhina or not, this is a REALLY GREAT arc. I was definitely amongst those people during the whole Sasuke arc (from the search for Itachi (which was when I started following the manga weekly) to the 8-tails fight) who was gritting my teeth, saying "Why, Kishi, why?" It was so slow for most of it, and most of it wasn't even interesting. This arc is what most Naruto fans have been praying for.
Although I would LOVE for Narusaku to happen, I'm not going to stop reading just if hinata lives, or even if naruto and hinata get together. Although I would be very sad, because of all the chemistry between naruto and sakura and the evidence all throughout the manga, I wouldn't stop reading. Something important for everyone to remember is that our minds are not kishi's mind. While the evidence may seem OBVIOUS to us and it might seem ridiculous to start a relationship out of thin air, that might be how Kishi wants it to happen. He does like surprises, right? Who knows what's going on in that artistic genius brain of his.
I'm not saying this to be unsupportive of narusaku. Not at all. Even if narusaku doesn't happen (though I think it SHOULD), I'll write fanfics about their relationship because it feels real to me.
Moving on, if this fight ends soon, it may be one of the very few major Naruto fights where Naruto ends up in much better shape than his opponent.

[Sora no Kitsune]

Something important for everyone to remember is that our minds are not kishi's mind. While the evidence may seem OBVIOUS to us and it might seem ridiculous to start a relationship out of thin air, that might be how Kishi wants it to happen. He does like surprises, right? Who knows what's going on in that artistic genius brain of his.

Acctually, i think people are over think this too much... Come on people this is kishimoto we're talking about. He comes up with some strange twists that maybe even he doesn't get. What im feeling is that right now, people are thinking this is his twist with hinata living, but then he turns around and slaps you across the face with an even bigger and more out-of-nowhere twist that only his odd brain can think of. Maybe he's humoring Naruhina fans right to turn around with and epic narusaku moment? Only time will tell.