241 replies to this topic

[shadow_Uzumaki]

/\ Comments like this will get this thread closed and a warning in your pm. Are we all on the same page here? Because if I see anything else like this I'm locking the thread.

If someone is trolling, note a mod. Otherwise follow the lead of the rest of posters after your comment, DJ, by being mature and moving on.

Huh, I didn't know you were a mod. Congrats! Even though this is probably old news and late praise.


Anyway, it's interesting that after this chapter, there's a bit of a reversal. I think any development to NS would have to be greater to prevent portraying Naruto as a d-bag for abandoning Hinata for Sakura. Whereas before, there were sufficient NS development that Naruto could easily go to Sakura without snubbing Hinata.


Frankly, it's more hilarious than worrying to me.

[tricksie]

Huh, I didn't know you were a mod. Congrats! Even though this is probably old news and late praise.

Anyway, it's interesting that after this chapter, there's a bit of a reversal. I think any development to NS would have to be greater to prevent portraying Naruto as a d-bag for abandoning Hinata for Sakura. Whereas before, there were sufficient NS development that Naruto could easily go to Sakura without snubbing Hinata.

Frankly, it's more hilarious than worrying to me.

Thanks!

Actually, Toasty mentioned on DA that this was a narrative feint on Kishimoto's part. So taken in that light, that this is a false plot line basically, you have to think that he hasn't lost his mind at all! And a few other people have mentioned here that it wouldn't make sense for the pairing to be confirmed before the big climax/ending. Which means that by putting Hinata out there so soon, it almost guarantees that she won't be the main pairing.

[六道仙人]

Thanks!

Actually, Toasty mentioned on DA that this was a narrative feint on Kishimoto's part. So taken in that light, that this is a false plot line basically, you have to think that he hasn't lost his mind at all! And a few other people have mentioned here that it wouldn't make sense for the pairing to be confirmed before the big climax/ending. Which means that by putting Hinata out there so soon, it almost guarantees that she won't be the main pairing.

who's toasty?

[PhenixElite]

Actually, Toasty mentioned on DA that this was a narrative feint on Kishimoto's part. So taken in that light, that this is a false plot line basically, you have to think that he hasn't lost his mind at all! And a few other people have mentioned here that it wouldn't make sense for the pairing to be confirmed before the big climax/ending. Which means that by putting Hinata out there so soon, it almost guarantees that she won't be the main pairing.

Yeah, thats exactly how it is
Hes just trolling!!

Edited by PhenixElite, 28 December 2012 - 03:55 PM.

[Nate River]

On the other hand, this being a visual medium, certain scenes do stand out to contrast this, specifically the last panels of Naruto and Hinata holding hands.

Ah, well. It's almost as bad as Rumiko Takahashi's prolonging of the Inuyasha and Kagome romance, where we know how both people feel but they just don't get together until the very end. Here, at least we still don't exactly know if Naruto returns Hinata's feelings. So, eh, I'll stick to my approach of 'wait and see.'

No, that was unbearable because the end result was a forgone conclusion for so long and constantly stalled in the same place.

Actually, Toasty mentioned on DA that this was a narrative feint on Kishimoto's part. So taken in that light, that this is a false plot line basically, you have to think that he hasn't lost his mind at all! And a few other people have mentioned here that it wouldn't make sense for the pairing to be confirmed before the big climax/ending. Which means that by putting Hinata out there so soon, it almost guarantees that she won't be the main pairing.

Not to rub salt in an old wound, but what you said reminds me of the Southern Raiders episode in Zutarra/Kataang wars and their subsequent fight with Azula. Episode didn't seem romantic to me, but I remember what was said about that. I was a Taang shipper, so I didn't pay much attention, but I remember hearing Zutarra fans being really excited only to be crushed a short time later. Certainly possible, here, though I think I have less confidence about it that you do.

Much better than what we have now. At least pretend Shikamaru is the wing-man like Kishi promised.

I disagree. I want wingman Shino Aburame and love-interest TenTen "I-Have-No-Surname."

EDIT: Oh.... If any ship needs to be in despair it's the NejiTen and NejiHina. Barring a mass resurrection (Obito can use Gedo Mazo so don't count that out), both those just sank like a stone.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

No, that was unbearable because the end result was a forgone conclusion for so long and constantly stalled in the same place.

Lol, that was what I meant, you just said it less confusingly. Takahashi's fond of her status quo button....

[kidNinja]

I knew it was only a matter of time before a weak-minded, thin-skinned so-called NS fan made a meltdown thread. Take a pill of calm the kitten down and wait to see how this plays out. BUT if you want to jump ship, bye and don't let the door hit you on the way out. You were never a real fan in the first place.

[HalfStarStudios]

I knew it was only a matter of time before a weak-minded, thin-skinned so-called NS fan made a meltdown thread. Take a pill of calm the kitten down and wait to see how this plays out. BUT if you want to jump ship, bye and don't let the door hit you on the way out. You were never a real fan in the first place.

Lol this is pathetic and it's gonna get the thread closed. How about you refute his points first? Unless you can't. c:

[tricksie]

@六道仙人 - Toasty is Toasty Warrior here on H&E. There is a NaruSaku fanclub on DeviantArt (run by the lovely amandas-sketches), and he posted on a thread there.

Not to rub salt in an old wound, but what you said reminds me of the Southern Raiders episode in Zutarra/Kataang wars and their subsequent fight with Azula. Episode didn't seem romantic to me, but I remember what was said about that. I was a Taang shipper, so I didn't pay much attention, but I remember hearing Zutarra fans being really excited only to be crushed a short time later. Certainly possible, here, though I think I have less confidence about it that you do.

You know, I've actually thought a lot about Zutara vs. Kataang while this has been going on. Although, I think Zutara had much more to go on than NH (knowing that the pairing was originally meant to be Zutara by the creators, the whole prince and the peasant trope, hatred turning to love, Zuko saying he wished Mei had more fire and passion (hinted like Katara), etc. etc.), I keep thinking back to the ''Southern Raiders" and then in the end when Zuko asks her to go with him to fight Azula, his saving Katara, then Katara healing Zuko...I really felt like that was directed completely at the Zutara fans.

They got a whole episode together and then in the end had waaaay more physical contact than Kataang ever got. So even thought Kataang ended as the final pairing, Zutara fans clearly had more eyecandy where their ship was concerned. It kind of sucked for Kataang fans actually — all they got was a kiss at the end. Like FMA, no real explanation of what transpired, just a confirmation.

I sincerely hope that NH/NS doesn't go this way. That NH is laid on thick and heavy, only to be switched to NS at the last moment. I don't want Sakura's development to take a backseat to Hinata's, just for the sake of Hinata being developed as a love interest and nothing more.

But it's funny you've mentioned AtlA, because I've thought about that often here.

If NS is going to be the final pairing, then unfortunately the sky is the limit on what can be done to the NH pairing...as long as there is no confirmation of their pairing status. That kind of tension is only good for the plot...and awful for the fans! It's torture, but it's true.

As for the next chapter, we could see more NH, or we could see a bait and switch where Obito suddenly targets Sakura (aiming to mortally wound Naruto), or we could see the whole focus of the manga shift to Sasuke for the next month or so. It's all up in the air now.

Not to be pessimistic, but I'm not expecting anything to be resolved next chapter. Now that Hinata's character has been bumped up to this level of importance, I think she's not just going to immediately fade away. I think she's here till the end. And I think we're not going to see much of anything from Sakura until that climactic end, unfortunately. (I'd be happy to be wrong though! )

I knew it was only a matter of time before a weak-minded, thin-skinned so-called NS fan made a meltdown thread. Take a pill of calm the f**k down and wait to see how this plays out. BUT if you want to jump ship, bye and don't let the door hit you on the way out. You were never a real fan in the first place.

I wasn't kidding. Personal targeting in posts results in official warning. End of story.

[kidNinja]

Lol this is pathetic and it's gonna get the thread closed. How about you refute his points first? Unless you can't. c:

I don't even care. I'm too annoyed at people jumping to conclusions to refute any points right now.

Edited by kidNinja, 28 December 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[Tendo Ryuken]

you guys are predicting that kishi is going to troll nh, which mean you will praise him later right? so, why dont you just wait and see?

i am not agreeing the way kishimoto treated sakura considering her position as the heroine. but saying the author the most popular manga in the world has lost his mind just because of 1 chapter is riddiculous, tbh

[Nate River]

@六道仙人 - Toasty is Toasty Warrior here on H&E. There is a NaruSaku fanclub on DeviantArt (run by the lovely amandas-sketches), and he posted on a thread there.


You know, I've actually thought a lot about Zutara vs. Kataang while this has been going on. Although, I think Zutara had much more to go on than NH (knowing that the pairing was originally meant to be Zutara by the creators, the whole prince and the peasant trope, hatred turning to love, Zuko saying he wished Mei had more fire and passion (hinted like Katara), etc. etc.), I keep thinking back to the ''Southern Raiders" and then in the end when Zuko asks her to go with him to fight Azula, his saving Katara, then Katara healing Zuko...I really felt like that was directed completely at the Zutara fans.

They got a whole episode together and then in the end had waaaay more physical contact than Kataang ever got. So even thought Kataang ended as the final pairing, Zutara fans clearly had more eyecandy where their ship was concerned. It kind of sucked for Kataang fans actually — all they got was a kiss at the end. Like FMA, no real explanation of what transpired, just a confirmation.

I sincerely hope that NH/NS doesn't go this way. That NH is laid on thick and heavy, only to be switched to NS at the last moment. I don't want Sakura's development to take a backseat to Hinata's, just for the sake of Hinata being developed as a love interest and nothing more.

But it's funny you've mentioned AtlA, because I've thought about that often here.

If NS is going to be the final pairing, then unfortunately the sky is the limit on what can be done to the NH pairing...as long as there is no confirmation of their pairing status. That kind of tension is only good for the plot...and awful for the fans! It's torture, but it's true.

As for the next chapter, we could see more NH, or we could see a bait and switch where Obito suddenly targets Sakura (aiming to mortally wound Naruto), or we could see the whole focus of the manga shift to Sasuke for the next month or so. It's all up in the air now.

Not to be pessimistic, but I'm not expecting anything to be resolved next chapter. Now that Hinata's character has been bumped up to this level of importance, I think she's not just going to immediately fade away. I think she's here till the end. And I think we're not going to see much of anything from Sakura until that climactic end, unfortunately. (I'd be happy to be wrong though! )

I never had a dog in that fight, but I remember the creators trolling the Zutarra fandom hard once the series was done, so I have no doubt that pairing bait heaved in their direction. Kataang seemed obvious to me because it's the only place Aang ever went and it was ultimately, his story. It could have easily pettered into nothing with no pairing for him without trouble, but when it got brought up again in Season 3 it seemed the most likely course and was when I gave up on my ship ever occuring.

I brought it up more for the suggestion that this is read meat thrown in their direction before it ultimately being resolved against them, either just as drama inducing or as a hear-you-go, or as a sort-of-consolation prize because they didn't get the ending they want.

I have no proof any of this, you just remined me of the end of Avatar.

As I said in the 615 thread, there is room for Kishimoto to do that. He left himself room to go either way. He's good at that in terms of pairings.

you guys are predicting that kishi is going to troll nh, which mean you will praise him later right? so, why dont you just wait and see?

i am not agreeing the way kishimoto treated sakura considering her position as the heroine. but saying the author the most popular manga in the world has lost his mind just because of 1 chapter is riddiculous, tbh

I wouldn't really call doing that trolling and I am by no means expressing certainty on that. It simply reminded me of that situation is all.

And no, I still wouldn't praise him for this chapter if that turns out to the case. Naruto acts would still be full of disappointment even if NS happens. Hinata has nothing to do with me disliking what Naruto did.

[HalfStarStudios]

I don't even care. I'm too annoyed at people jumping to conclusions to refute any points right now.

Then leave. Your posts will only get this thread closed. Let me ask you a question though. If it was Sakura who was in Hinata's place, would you say NS is canon? Or would you just say we're jumping to conclusions?

[kidNinja]

Then leave. Your posts will only get this thread closed. Let me ask you a question though. If it was Sakura who was in Hinata's place, would you say NS is canon? Or would you just say we're jumping to conclusions?

No, I wouldn't say it was canon because there's too much story left and it was not confirmed to be canon BUT considering that Naruto already loves Sakura, it would be hard to argue that it wasn't. In the case of NH, Naruto has not shown any romantic interest in Hinata PLUS he has shown no indication that he has moved on from Sakura. Comparing NS and NH is apple to oranges.

Edited by kidNinja, 28 December 2012 - 04:34 PM.

[Nate River]

Then leave. Your posts will only get this thread closed. Let me ask you a question though. If it was Sakura who was in Hinata's place, would you say NS is canon? Or would you just say we're jumping to conclusions?

We are aware of this. Don't join the bandwagon.

[tricksie]

I never had a dog in that fight, but I remember the creators trolling the Zutarra fandom hard once the series was done, so I have no doubt that pairing bait heaved in their direction. Kataang seemed obvious to me because it's the only place Aang ever went and it was ultimately, his story. It could have easily pettered into nothing with no pairing for him without trouble, but when it got brought up again in Season 3 it seemed the most likely course and was when I gave up on my ship ever occuring.

I brought it up more for the suggestion that this is read meat thrown in their direction before it ultimately being resolved against them, either just as drama inducing or as a hear-you-go, or as a sort-of-consolation prize because they didn't get the ending they want.

I have no proof any of this, you just remined me of the end of Avatar.

As I said in the 615 thread, there is room for Kishimoto to do that. He left himself room to go either way. He's good at that in terms of pairings.

Same thoughts here. Kataang was always the obvious pairing. But the heavily Zutara moments in the end — hand on the arm, arm around the other person, in other words lots of physical contact that could be taken as caring just as in this chapter – seemed like a consolation prize to me too. And it reminded me of this chapter. That the high physical contact is appeases one set of fans and adds tension to the story. NH fans will have some great eyecandy, just as Zutara fans did.

[AnaHatakechan]

You'd think so, but you can't deny the trend for the past 100+ chapters.

First there was Sakura revealing she was STILL in love with Sasuke. Then there was Hinata's speech about telling Naruto to wait for her. Now we see Naruto and Hinata holding hands and caressing each other's cheeks. I'm sorry, but I think we have to face facts here. The real question: Why? If Kishimoto wanted NaruHina to happen, why not just let it happen? Why does he have to throw it off to backburner until the last 100 chapters? Honestly, it'd make as much "sense" if Naruto suddenly showed an interest in Ino. Hell, it'd make even more sense if he just suddenly showed an interest in Sasuke. Whatever the case, no matter how you look at it, our favorite mangaka has been revealed as a sellout and I fear things are only going to get worse in the days to come. Inb4 Sasuke "falls in love" with Sakura over the course of 2 chapters.

I believe that Kishimoto is just trying to
Troll his fans, he's a writer and he wants to sell his work making it clear that NaruSaku will most likely become canon will make the NH fans stop reading his manga. Kishimoto is probably the biggest troll, but to me it's the NH fans who are being trolled. They are being led to believe that their ship is going to become canon and believe me they will be unbelievably cocky about it. Remember that nothing has been set in stone don't jump to conclusions it's only one chapter NS has years of development behind it and still is the most logical one.
To me this chapter has a massive link to 573 when all the rookies made a promise to Naruto stating how they will support him and fight along side him to put a stop to this war.
Hinata said "Naruto-Kun I've always been chasing after you...even now. But once this war ends, I'm going to stop once and for all. Next time, I'll be next to you, holding your hand...walking with you" which happend in 615.
I actually think this was nicely done and gave Hinata a good deal of development as a character not just for NH.
Was this a NaruHina moment. Yes, no doubt about it.
Is it romantic. Possibly.
I still don't think we can class this as a sign of Naruto having feelings for Hinata, his feelings for Sakura are stil strong.
I think Sakura will have her time giving NS more development and giving the NH can base something worry about.
Don't jump to conclusions just yet

[Tendo Ryuken]

I wouldn't really call doing that trolling and I am by no means expressing certainty on that. It simply reminded me of that situation is all.

And no, I still wouldn't praise him for this chapter if that turns out to the case. Naruto acts would still be full of disappointment even if NS happens. Hinata has nothing to do with me disliking what Naruto did.

ehh? can you explain what naruto did? have i missed something?

ps: it was hurting me so badly watching the moment zuko and katara standing each other. but i really love the ending lol

[Nate River]

ehh? can you explain what naruto did? have i missed something?

ps: it was hurting me so badly watching the moment zuko and katara standing each other. but i really love the ending lol

Him breaking whether it be just shock or whether he was seriously considering Obito's words.

What Hinata did for him he should have been able to do on his own.

[Phantom_999]

I can buy if he wants to try to develop all of his minor characters first. I can understand the motivation there, also. But it won't do good for his story, for his manga, in the long run. Any way this is sliced, Kishi is slipping or has slipped. Either that, or he's content with the quality of his manga plummeting to the core of the planet.

It slows the story DOWN for sure, but developing characters appeals to fans of that character. So while I admit I'd rather not see a side character developed, I personally like Hinata to an extent and am glad to see that she is finally starting to grow a backbone.

I've already said this, but I will say it again.

This whole chapter felt forced. It felt so fake and forced.

From a writing stand point, it is a good move. It is the kind of story writing that creates good moment like these, but with that being said timing also plays a part and this has been just horrible timing.

What feels the most forced is Naruto losing hope from the death of the friends around him. I am not talking about being emotional, but the fact that Naruto was so willing to give up despite constantly being told that he isn't the only one fighting.

I mean, Kishi are you trying to make Naruto stupid on purpose? He has been told many of times from the Pein Arc on that people would die and that pain will be constant, but also told him not to give up. Itachi told him the same thing. Neji said the same thing too. As several other characters throughout this manga. Even Obito told him. How could you not prepare for your friends and people to die? You are in a war. You can't go to war and not expect some casualties to occur. That's just insanity.

Not only that, but even when so many people have told Naruto to not give in to pain, he does anyway and it takes Hinata to snap him out of it. Really?

Kishimoto has not only been giving Sakura the shaft, but has also been giving Naruto the shaft too. He has undermined Naruto as the hero as well just so Hinata got to play the hero just this once. And Neji, he sacrifices his life and Hinata got most of the credit. She got credit for everything everyone else has done. This is not even making up stuff, she has maybe done two important things in the manga and Naruto is made to believe she has done everything.

You know what? This scene should not have been given to Hinata. It shouldn't have been given to Sakura either. You know who it should have been given to? Shikamaru. You know how perfect that would have been? Shikamaru who becomes the form of logic to Naruto like Kishi said he was going to be to him as well? But no, again we get a forced scene just so Hinata can have screen time and feel important. Even now the NH fans don't care about the plot of the story as much as they do about their pair getting the scene.

Kishi, you need to take a lesson from Karin Traviss. THIS is how you do a death scene

Gears 3 spoiler. --Click here to view--

Did Marcus lose hope in humanity? Did Marcus want to give up and die? No, because he knew that Dom did not sacrifice himself just so Marcus could die. Marcus was sad, yes, as anyone would, but he didn't lose hope.

(Yes, she penned the story for Gears 3)

I expect Naruto to get angry. So angry that he goes on a rage, blood drunk, as he always does. Not lose complete control, but just be this bad ass for one moment. Instead he shames himself and his character just so Hinata can have her moment.

This type of scene should have been saved to when Sasuke died. Not Neji. Not to say Neji death wasn't important or he wasn't a good character, but that kind of reaction to a death should have been saved to the end with Sakura.

Agreed. But then Naruto isn't perfect so I would understand that he would be devastated if one of his personal friends die, though I do not see how that should make him despair. However as forced as it is I;m sure it is only to give Hinata the spotlight for once cause she was never able to help Naruto before. Well except in those Hinata fan service fillers, but the point is Hinata finally has stepped out from being that overlooked shy girl that rarely did anything. This likely to help her stop putting herself down and have confidence to become the heir to Hyuuga.