I am not trying to be comphrehensive either. Just looking at the behvior of fans in correlation to their thinking. It's funny how you mention the anime in this because Naruto seems to be the only one that people take the anime over the manga. How many times have people said to you or anything that the "manga is superior to the anime and that should take precedence," but all of a sudden the anime of Naruto all of a sudden has more power above the manga? Also, if that is true, how is it that people love the anime more, but the anime reinforces NaruSaku even more than the manga does by having Naruto tell several more people how much he is in love with Sakura. So, all you are proving to me is that whether it be the manga or anime people are selective with what they want to see rather than what the reality is actually there.
That's not been my experience, especially with causal fans whose don't necessarily "take" the anime over the manga. I "took" the anime Sailor Moon over the manga as a kid because that is all I ever saw.
People tell me that I need to read the manga more to see what they see, but when I point out something from the manga to prove them wrong...they continue to be blind. Again, like Analzyer when I pointed out Sakura being a tsundere. Minato ACTIVELY compares Sakura to Kushina and saying they are alike. Kushina is a confirmed Tsundere. So if Sakura is like Kushina...then that is proof that Sakura is a tsundere. How hard is this to understand? This isn't even interpretation, this is manga fact. Unless people want to say that Kushina is not a tsundere.
I'm not sure why holding similar archetypes, mandates a particular direction. I think the move to NH was awful, but its not because of that.
Also, I don't see Neji as a villain. Opposition maybe, but he wasn't a villain that wanted death to the village, or murdered people, or vowed revenge for the the misdeeds of his clans. He kind was just angry and upset by the branch family and was taking it out on Hinata beating her up because of how ungrateful Hinata is and how he suffered because of her family. Not unlike many other anime I see like Kaze no Stigma.
I'm not interested in hashing out where the line of "villain" is drawn. Needless to say, I mean as a story role rather than a descriptor.
Well, I say they are the same. Again, no matter how bad every other character is, they all of a sudden get forgiving by the fanbase....EXCEPT for Sakura. Why does even Obito get more forgiveness than Sakura?
You are so sweeping with these pronouncements that I am reluctant to respond because there isn't going to be just one answer and many people don't give him more forgiveness. I'd assume though, that at the top of the list is that they felt sorry for him because of what he went through. Sakura does not have that tragic past and when she hits and yells at him (the very few times she does), it's for petty reasons. That is, at ts core, why some don't like Tsundere's. It's one of the reasons I hated Kagome.
Are these just rhetorical questions? I like Sakura, so I don't get why you keep asking me questions like this. If you really want to know, ask them.
......Again. WHY IS SAKURA THE ONLY ONE HATED FOR THEIR FIRST IMPRESSION?
By who? She wasn't. Lots of people hated Sasuke based on this first impression, too.
Jiriaya is still portrayed as a pervert, but he is not hated for it and called useless.
Shikamaru is absolutly one of the laziest characters in the series....and he is not hated for it nor called useless.
Was that the intended point? I read your post as arguing that she was the only shackled to their first impression, and not that she is the only one hated for it. I reread that section and yeah, you talk about people being reevaluated, which suggests the point is that they are forever stuck with that impression and not simply that they are hated for it.
If your point by citing all those other characters is that they were able to escape that impression, then whether they are called useless or hate for it is besides the point. My point is that those characters didn't escape those impression universally. For some people they did, for others they did not. This was true of Sakura. I wasn't addressing anything else.
Even Obito, who you even expressed dislike for as well, is still far more forgiven than Sakura is. I don't hear much banter about Obito and whatnot. Instead people jsut complain it is a stupid plot point...not that Obito is a stupid character and is useless.
I'm not sure why you cite my Obito-hate as if I'm neglecting it. I lead that train on this board throughout the war arc. I can declare it again, if need be. I despise how Kishimoto handled him. It's not a stupid plot point. His entire character arc during the war arc is a disaster that leads to the worst line in the entire series.
You don't hear much banter from who? I am also a little confused about your use of "useless." I took from your earlier points you referred to her status as a ninja and not as a character in general.
And so on and so forth. I don't see pro-enders constantly saying how bad of a person Shikamaru is for "abandoning his team for the sake of revenge." (Exaggerating yes, but alot of the Sakura hate is over exaggerated as well.) Sakura still gets the most hate even when they got exactly what they wanted her to do and be.
I've never heard of Sakura being described that way either. Sasuke on the other hand....
*pinches the bridge of her nose*
Narusegawa hits Keitaro like 20 times each and every episode regardless if it is his fault or not in Love Hina
How about all the brutality in Familar of Zero?
Toradora?
Maid-sama?
Soul Eater?
Demon King Daimao
Really, I can keep naming anime after anime with female characters that are far worse than Sakura ever is and besides just because you don't think it is funny does not mean it is never funny. I guess people don't think Hinata tripping on a rock is comedy, but I laughed anyway.
1. I am only familiar with 2 on that list, so it does nothing for me.
2. I didn't assert that just because I felt that way others did as well. I intended to offer my opinion, which is all I did. I did not intend to speak for others.
3. Whether Sakura is better or worse is besides the point. I don't think its funny. That Narusegawa is worse doesn't change that. I still hate that scene.
........so, I am guessing the term "hypothetical" is not really part of the vocabulary then? I guess we lost all imagination then. Can make fanfictions, but can't think of hypothetical situations.
It was at one time, but while I was in law school some dood forced me to do a bender in class. And because in law school you do hypothetical everyday, the word gets used a lot. So, just as I was downing the last, the teacher yelled "hypothetical" and so the word was forever bleached from my brain.
I tried to give you a straight up and cordial response. You gave me this. I can be ass, too.
As for your hypothetical, well, I think its equal parts useless and disingenuous. Either they wouldn't call Kushina that and be "hypocrites" or they would and be "idiots" or something along those lines. It's hard to read that post and think you intended a serious or genuine response to it. I preferred to largely side-step instead. But since we're here, I suppose this is fine too.
Then they can't complain when I call them uncultured or say they are narrow-minded with Naruto as their only base for "anime culture." Really, if they honestly think Sakura is the worst girl in anime history....then they obviously have never seen anime at all. If their entire concept of anime is based off what Naruto did in his series....then I feel so sorry for their stupidity. I have found many people that have only watched Naruto and never any other series. They don't understand anything and this is why I don't accept their logic.
I hate when fandoms behave this way, it's obnoxious and pretentious. You might as well tell them "You're not one of us, you troglodyte. You don't know how to enjoy it the right way." I soured on certain sports fandoms because their fans behaved this way.
So how does that explain Sasuke being a bad father when he had one? I find it hard to imagine because I never had a father either and yet I would never treat my own kid this way. Besides, how far can you make this excuse really? "Because Naruto never had a girlfriend before it is not surprising he is miserable with Hinata and doesn't know how to be a good husband."
The one that was killed in front his face when he was six? One of the sources of his life-long trauma that consumed the way he thought for most of his life?
Besides, these aren't absolutes and as I'm sure you know, that just because you responded one way to not having a father doesn't others do. It was you who asserted that because he lacked parents he wouldn't be neglectful. I think his lack of family makes it believable he would have issues of his own as he would have no example to follow. Regardless, I think him having issues with Boruto is believable if done correctly. In Boruto, it wasn't.
Who is excusing Naruto's behavior? I am speaking to whether its a plausible characterization of Naruto not stating that it is okay for him to do so. I'm not trying to justify it. I only mean, as my post makes clear, that its not had to see him throwing himself fullblown into this job at the expense of everything else. I just doesn't work when the part of the job he is doing it for is the mundane paperwork about stuff we never hear about. It could work, but it doesn't because the details are so lazy.
Go to facebook and look at the Naruto fans there. Go also to Kotaku and some other places where they dwell. Tumblr is also a ceasepool where it occurs. I have seen it.
Nah, man. I'm not a masochist. Besides, I don't give a damn what they think. No interest in seeking out opinions I care nothing about.
Besides, I wasn't talking about the fans. I was referring to the characters in the story.