137 replies to this topic

[Living Lavish]

Meh. Like I said, different opinions. As far as a bond between Sasuke and Sakura, yeah, there were more things than just that, and but his character has some fatal flaws that preclude him having a deeper relationship with anyone.

She did have a bond with Sasuke, and it had an effect on him. But in the end he rejected all his bonds. When she went after him she really believed she could sway him. I don't look down on her for chasing after him, it's brave and bittersweet. She knows she has nothing to offer but she's desperate to be on equal footing and have her acknowledge him. Desperation, as Tsunade would say, being the key ingredient. But to dismiss Sakura as an "Uchiha fangirl" or being in "fangirl mode" is to ignore her character motivation and simply turn her into a stereotype (not from anyone's posts, it's just the ever-present term).

It's interesting in this episode because Sakura approaches Naruto entirely differently. She has a contingency plan, indeed she may have planned all along that Naruto would reject her offer of love and return to the village. And she knows she's powerful enough to take fate into her own hands. It's just that when she finds the she has the opportunity to sever those bonds of her own accord that she can't do it. She's no Sasuke.

I have much higher hopes now for the anime scenes to come, her attack on Sasuke and Naruto's subsequent rescue, since this chapter was animated so beautifully.

She didn't have a bond with Sasuke like Naruto and herself had or Sasuke and Naruto. but doesn't mean didn't Sasuke cared about her and he was grateful she is a precious person, comrade etc. in his life. I don't look down on her even when she went after him but she was desperate and selfish. all the way up to that point all she did was go after sasuke and did nothing with her life. sauske just bad for her character he stuns her growth and her identity.

Agreed. They REALLY didn't have anything deep or meaningful. It's just that Sakura was DESPERATE for acknowledgment from him. I mean c'mon, she felt completely useless on that team and never truely proved herself to Sasuke. Even though she had Naruto and Kakashi accept her for who she was, Sasuke never did. And any sane person wouldn't want to be on a team (especially in the world of ninja) where someone does NOT see you as an equal. That element of mystery and unattainability is what made Sakura so desperate till the end of part I. Even though it seemed like she convinced herself she was REALLY in love with Sasuke, in actuality those feelings exploded and seemed highly desperate because of the disfunctional relationship they had. Sakura had a CRUSH on him AND wanted desperately to be respected, especially since they were on the same team. So when people pull out the "Sakura loves Sasuke" card I can only believe it to a certain extent. She loves him as that of a teammate now. Part I she illusioned her self to be IN LOVE with him but that isn't the case anymore.

Woah. I'm a sane individual, and i like being where one person doesn't see me as an equal. It makes me work harder to gain their respect. So I don't think that's a valid argument.

As for the convincing herself she was in love with him, I agree with that sort of. But it wasn't a crush. It was either psuedo-love or nothing, and I certainly don't think it was the latter.

[Yoshimoya]

Woah. I'm a sane individual, and i like being where one person doesn't see me as an equal. It makes me work harder to gain their respect. So I don't think that's a valid argument.

As for the convincing herself she was in love with him, I agree with that sort of. But it wasn't a crush. It was either psuedo-love or nothing, and I certainly don't think it was the latter.

Yeah, that whole post was ehh. Sorry about that, let me rephrase sane individual, someone with enough self respect...? My point there was to say that NO ONE (not all, but I'm sure most people) would want to be on a team with someone who doesn't see them as their equal. Thus, the hard work and whatnot. That's what I was trying to get at.

Well, just forget that post, I deleted it anyways. I'm all debated out and very tired today. I've been discussing this the whole day, I'll probably get back on it tomorrow xP

But yeah sorry about that post again, I'm mentally drained -.-x ..........

[Living Lavish]

Yeah, that whole post was ehh. Sorry about that, let me rephrase sane individual, someone with enough self respect...? My point there was to say that NO ONE (not all, but I'm sure most people) would want to be on a team with someone who doesn't see them as their equal. Thus, the hard work and whatnot. That's what I was trying to get at.

Well, just forget that post, I deleted it anyways. I'm all debated out and very tired today. I've been discussing this the whole day, I'll probably get back on it tomorrow xP

But yeah sorry about that post again, I'm mentally drained -.-x ..........

of course i agree. yeah im happy with todays episode tho
glad they did it right.

[KnS]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

Loved the episode. Sakura was beautiful. She came across as honest and determined in her love for Naruto -- you know, just as Kishi said.

I was struck by Naruto's apparent coldness in the anime, but it's not really surprising when taken in larger context. Setting aside his desire to hang on to his ideal of Team 7, and his self-esteem issues preventing him from believing Sakura might actually be in love with him, and the awkward and questionable way she did it, Sakura confessed at a low moment for Naruto.

In the days leading up to her confession, it had been a parade of anti-Sasuke sentiment for Naruto -- all in the opposite direction of his personal feelings and everything he's been trying to do for Sasuke -- and I think at least some of Naruto's secondary reaction to Sakura was disappointment and frustration that he'd thought he could count on her support where Sasuke was concerned. I mean, after everything they'd been through, he expected her to be the last person to give up on Sasuke. It would have been tough to believe she didn't care about him. I mean, readers didn't buy it either, right?

Sai later compounds the issue by seeming to confirm that Sakura loves both Naruto and Sasuke, and by confirming that her actions were motivated by both loves -- more for Naruto to take on. Then next is Gaara, who pours on more logic, reality, and misery. Finally Naruto collapses from the strain.

Point being, Sakura's confession may have been honest and heartfelt, but it was very poorly timed and executed. Naruto was so NOT in the right frame of mind to understand what she was really saying and choosing through her actions.

The confession scene was a giant nexus of love, loyalty, and romantic angst that's been a long time in the making. Sakura needed to lose the upper hand in the relationship, and Naruto needed to realize that Sakura has changed and grown up, and that it's much scarier to be in love with someone you can actually get. It's a different playbook. Sakura figured that out. Now Naruto has to own his love for Sakura and stop making it dependent on Sasuke's redemption.

Edited by KnS, 08 April 2011 - 06:00 AM.

[Yoshimoya]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

Loved the episode. Sakura was beautiful. She came across as honest and determined in her love for Naruto -- you know, just as Kishi said.

I was struck by Naruto's apparent coldness in the anime, but it's not really surprising when taken in larger context. Setting aside his desire to hang on to his ideal of Team 7, and his self-esteem issues preventing him from believing Sakura might actually be in love with him, and the awkward and questionable way she did it, Sakura confessed at a low moment for Naruto.

In the days leading up to her confession, it had been a parade of anti-Sasuke sentiment for Naruto -- all in the opposite direction of his personal feelings and everything he's been trying to do for Sasuke -- and I think at least some of Naruto's secondary reaction to Sakura was disappointment and frustration that he'd thought he could count on her support where Sasuke was concerned. I mean, after everything they'd been through, he expected her to be the last person to give up on Sasuke. It would have been tough to believe she didn't care about him. I mean, readers didn't buy it either, right?

Sai later compounds the issue by seeming to confirm that Sakura loves both Naruto and Sasuke, and by confirming that her actions were motivated by both loves -- more for Naruto to take on. Then next is Gaara, who pours on more logic, reality, and misery. Finally Naruto collapses from the strain.

Point being, Sakura's confession may have been honest and heartfelt, but it was very poorly timed and executed. Naruto was so NOT in the right frame of mind to understand what she was really saying and choosing through her actions.

The confession scene was a giant nexus of love, loyalty, and romantic angst that's been a long time in the making. Sakura needed to lose the upper hand in the relationship, and Naruto needed to realize that Sakura has changed and grown up, and that it's much scarier to be in love with someone you can actually get. It's a different playbook. Sakura figured that out. Now Naruto has to own his love for Sakura and stop making it dependent on Sasuke's redemption.

You sir, are the man. Greatest post I've seen all day. Straight to the point but very clear and descriptive. Analyzed but not over analyzed. Thank you so much. You really cleared up my thoughts. I have thought up and pondered everything you have said but it was one of those things I can't seem to correctly put in words in a way that would satisfy me. Seriously, you're right on point. I couldn't have said it any better.

[Greed-Sama]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

Loved the episode. Sakura was beautiful. She came across as honest and determined in her love for Naruto -- you know, just as Kishi said.

I was struck by Naruto's apparent coldness in the anime, but it's not really surprising when taken in larger context. Setting aside his desire to hang on to his ideal of Team 7, and his self-esteem issues preventing him from believing Sakura might actually be in love with him, and the awkward and questionable way she did it, Sakura confessed at a low moment for Naruto.

In the days leading up to her confession, it had been a parade of anti-Sasuke sentiment for Naruto -- all in the opposite direction of his personal feelings and everything he's been trying to do for Sasuke -- and I think at least some of Naruto's secondary reaction to Sakura was disappointment and frustration that he'd thought he could count on her support where Sasuke was concerned. I mean, after everything they'd been through, he expected her to be the last person to give up on Sasuke. It would have been tough to believe she didn't care about him. I mean, readers didn't buy it either, right?

Sai later compounds the issue by seeming to confirm that Sakura loves both Naruto and Sasuke, and by confirming that her actions were motivated by both loves -- more for Naruto to take on. Then next is Gaara, who pours on more logic, reality, and misery. Finally Naruto collapses from the strain.

Point being, Sakura's confession may have been honest and heartfelt, but it was very poorly timed and executed. Naruto was so NOT in the right frame of mind to understand what she was really saying and choosing through her actions.

The confession scene was a giant nexus of love, loyalty, and romantic angst that's been a long time in the making. Sakura needed to lose the upper hand in the relationship, and Naruto needed to realize that Sakura has changed and grown up, and that it's much scarier to be in love with someone you can actually get. It's a different playbook. Sakura figured that out. Now Naruto has to own his love for Sakura and stop making it dependent on Sasuke's redemption.

You bring up some very good points, and I applaud you. I do think that some people don't understand that in that moment the dynamics of the relationship changed. Now it's in Naruto's ballpark with how this romance continues.

[Darth Krypt]

With absolutly nothing else to persuade Sasuke she goes and spouts out "I love you with all my heart". I think the only reason this was said because she wanted Sasuke to stay. I think she just sees him as a teamate that she cares about

LOL you made its sound as if Sakura will say "I love you" to any guy she wants to return to Konoha.

[ciardha]

Wow i really never noticed this before in the manga. Also something i noticed about Sakura's confession to Sasuke is that it seemed like it was more like something to keep Sasuke in the village. I mean she doesn't even blush like she did back at the bench scene and back then she wasn't even confessing. Not only that but if you look at Sakura's face right after Sasuke says its time they all begin new paths, you can see that her plan to stop Sasuke from leaving is starting to fail so she makes a face as if she is thinking of something to say. With absolutly nothing else to persuade Sasuke she goes and spouts out "I love you with all my heart". I think the only reason this was said because she wanted Sasuke to stay. I think she just sees him as a teamate that she cares about

Ooh great point about how she doesn't blush when she makes the confession to Sasuke. I think she still thought she was in love with Sasuke, but she already knows he'll never return her feelings- she knows her feelings are hopelessly one sided. And she gradually figures out what she felt for Sasuke wasn't real love but adoration for the fantasy image she had of him. (Kishimoto even makes that point in a part 1 interview- Sakura holds a young, naive view of what love is, and it doesn't fit reality.)

That reality is crashing down on her when she makes the confession to Sasuke, plus it is mixed in with the team mate bond and the glimpses of a better Sasuke because of Naruto's influence (Sakura already knows the change in Sasuke came about because of the friendship that developed between Naruto and Sasuke) and that's a majorly emotional wrenching mix of things to be dealing with at just 13 years old.

Her young heart is breaking when she begs Naruto to bring Sasuke back. She's already said goodbye to her childish fantasies of herself with Sasuke- although it's still hurting her a lot, the anguish is at heart that Sasuke is throwing away that person he had become as their team mate and she knows he's going headlong into a path ultimately of self-destruction.

Sakura's first conscious shift away from that hopeless love for Sasuke and toward loving Naruto ironically happens when Naruto makes the Promise of a Lifetime to her. Look at her thoughts immediately after he utters those words and how similar they are to some of the words of her confession to Naruto. By the time she sees Naruto in the hospital near the end of part 1 she's already acting on that shift- 1)she tries to end the POAL, and when he says no she 2)says nothing about having any feelings for Sasuke 3) apologizes for being weak, and 4) promises to get stronger so the next time they can go after Sasuke together- she's already shifting to focusing on bringing Sasuke back for Naruto's sake, for his bond to Sasuke.

sardns, it was at the Jump Festa 2009 interview- the correct full interview.

The episode really emphasizes Naruto holding onto that rigid mental image of Sakura as the unattainable girl. He can't deal with that she's grow up and changed, and is now very much in love with him. Naruto does tend to react with strong anger at first as well when his world view is overturned in some personal way.

Edited by ciardha, 08 April 2011 - 03:52 PM.

[Torxe]

Watched the episode (and catched up on 4 pages of posts), and I must say I really liked the episode but like in the manga miss the closure of the conversation. Is it just me of does anyone else get the feeling this conversation is not finished (in the manga this was the same but not as big) the fact that they won't talk for a LONG time about it doesn't help either.

On a sidenote the links to the downloads are they of use for anyone?

[Chivalrysae]

I loved this episode as well. And I don't mind that the Naruto blush was left out. The suddeness of the confession as well as her going out of her way with a scout team to find him to make her confession made it unusual. And the fact that Naruto knows her so well, allows him to see that she is not telling the whole truth (her siding with the rest of the rookies to "deal" with Sasuke"). Remember that her hiding this is also out of her love for him. She knows that just him knowing their decision would cause him even more pain and grief.

And one last note. From a cultural perspective, any type of intimacy in Asian cultures like the hug after the Pein arc and at the confession is a pretty big deal. And although her confession was somewhat forced, saying "I love you" is a very big deal. Forced or not, especially in front of other people. So although we may feel it was a bit shocking of a development, it's a much bigger shock to the Naruto crew that were present. And that might also be why Naruto questions it a little more.

[lupina]

sardns, it was at the Jump Festa 2009 interview- the correct full interview.

can I ask you where you got them?
When I search for Kishis Interviews I only get the "mistranslated" NH/SS Fan version (wich are also used in German Fandom *rolleyes*)

[Blazing CobaltX]

There's much ado about the blush/no blush on Naruto, but I was surprised when they made Sakura look like she might tear up after he rejected her. That wasn't in the manga, just her looking with big, rather hurt eyes. But in the anime I got the impression that she might be to the point of tears. (Her face looked very "watery" in one scene. Does that make sense?) Anyway, I didn't get the impression of possible tears from the manga (hurt, yes, but no tears). Anyone else notice this?

I had the same impression. I was like WOW!

[ciardha]

Watched the episode (and catched up on 4 pages of posts), and I must say I really liked the episode but like in the manga miss the closure of the conversation. Is it just me of does anyone else get the feeling this conversation is not finished (in the manga this was the same but not as big) the fact that they won't talk for a LONG time about it doesn't help either.

Sai's words spell it out for Naruto- Sakura has moved on from Sasuke and has fallen in love with Naruto, her thoughts were all about Naruto, and he should have got that. She is going to kill Sasuke to protect Naruto even though she fears it will make Naruto hate her. And because she understands how Sasuke has changed, it's because she loved Sasuke and decided the only way left to keep him from becoming a complete monster who aims to kill Naruto and will trigger a much larger conflict than what he's done already is to kill Sasuke.

The shock of the full reality of all that hitting Naruto overwhelms him as it shatters that POAL wall he decided to out up on his own and never told Sakura about. He hyperventilates and passes out, it takes him a while to think it through. He finally gets it through, and goes at top speed in Sage mode to save Sakura.

Naruto does get it now, Sakura may not realize he does though- she just knows he doesn't hate her- the way he held her and the glance they shared as he gently set her down and kept his hand on her shoulder- we see the later from Sakura's POV on purpose. It eases her mind, putting her mentally back in balance enough to berate Sasuke for the way he's acting- how that hurts Naruto and how Naruto has never stopped defending him, even now (she looks at Naruto then with a glance that gently questions why- when Sasuke is violently rejecting even Naruto.) We get more proof that Naruto gets that Sakura is in love with him in chapter 504 when we see his mental image of his age peers. Sakura is the only one who has her full attention on Naruto and she looks at him with a smile and a look that is openly loving. This is how Naruto sees Sakura now.

Edited by ciardha, 08 April 2011 - 04:47 PM.

[Evil Potato]

Great episode. Everything was done very well in accordance to the manga. I was very satisfied with this episode.

For all of you that thought this episode was bad and think that it makes NS seem impossible, your minds should be eased in about 5 more episodes, no worries.

[Chivalrysae]

Great episode. Everything was done very well in accordance to the manga. I was very satisfied with this episode.

For all of you that thought this episode was bad and think that it makes NS seem impossible, your minds should be eased in about 5 more episodes, no worries.

I'm looking forward to the scene in about 5 more episodes as well. I don't have a problem with the way this episode was done and I really don't think any future animated scenes would bother me as much unless the stray really far from the manga. The love between Sakura and Naruto isn't something you define in any one moment. Their love has been a journey as they've grown into who they are and realizing what is most important to them. Their emotional bond has always grown stronger as the series has gone on. To the point where they can understand each other without even having to say so. Even someone that has trouble understanding people and emotions (Sai) can tell they have feelings for each other. You can also tell Kakashi senses it too.

These lyrics best exemplify how I see it.

"The smile on your face lets me know that you need me
There's a truth in your eyes sayin' you'll never leave me
The touch of your hand says you'll catch me if ever I fall
You say it best when you say nothing at all"

[KnS]

Home sick today so I got to watch 206 again. Couple of stray thoughts.

The progression of Naruto's reaction says so much about his personality. When he first hears Sakura's words he is shocked and hopeful. It's patently obvious he wants to believe she loves him, proof (as if we needed more) that he's in love with her.

Then his insecurity takes over and he assumes it's a joke, which is heartbreaking but believable.

Then Sakura makes a big mistake. She says, "I'm not a child anymore. I can face reality. So Naruto, you can forget about that promise you made to me." That's when Naruto's expression changes to anger. Whether she meant it that way or not, she implied that if Naruto continued to believe in and hope for Sasuke it was a childish fantasy. Telling him he could forget about the promise he made was saying, in a way, to forget about his nindo, and that made him deeply suspicious.

Naturally Naruto has been unaware of all the times Sakura's growing love for him has been obvious, so all he has to fall back on are memories of her old crush on Sasuke and they add fuel to his mistrust. His own feelings / bonds / commitments don't waver, so it's almost impossible for Naruto to imagine (much less believe) that Sakura might no longer love Sasuke the way she once did. In fact it's so impossible for him that he accuses her of lying to herself.

But you'll notice that after she gets angry and says that if he hates her to just say so, he doesn't deny his feelings for her. He only says that her timing doesn't make sense, and that her explanation for it sounds like a painful excuse -- both of which are 100% correct. He still senses she's holding something back, but he's calmer and more accepting of what she's said about her feelings for him, and acknowledges that the promise between them no longer matters. I'm left with the impression that they're on a more equal footing, and finally let go of a lot of emotional baggage they've both been carrying.

I think Naruto needed to realize that his determination to save Sasuke couldn't be about a promise he'd made to Sakura in childhood. It has to be about his commitment to Jiraiya's quest, and his vow to Nagato that he would bring about change. As Naruto later says to Kakashi, he can't become Hokage if he can't even save his friend. By letting go of the original promise, Naruto and Sakura can remove Sasuke from their personal relationship, and Sasuke then becomes a symbol of Naruto's greater promise to Nagato and Jiraiya.


P.S. Kakashi watching Sakura hug Naruto and saying, "Sakura...you..." It kills me how, after this scene came out in the manga, Kakashi's reaction was perceived by some as disappointment in Sakura. I don't see how that could possibly be the interpretation.

[Living Lavish]

Home sick today so I got to watch 206 again. Couple of stray thoughts.

The progression of Naruto's reaction says so much about his personality. When he first hears Sakura's words he is shocked and hopeful. It's patently obvious he wants to believe she loves him, proof (as if we needed more) that he's in love with her.

Then his insecurity takes over and he assumes it's a joke, which is heartbreaking but believable.

Then Sakura makes a big mistake. She says, "I'm not a child anymore. I can face reality. So Naruto, you can forget about that promise you made to me." That's when Naruto's expression changes to anger. Whether she meant it that way or not, she implied that if Naruto continued to believe in and hope for Sasuke it was a childish fantasy. Telling him he could forget about the promise he made was saying, in a way, to forget about his nindo, and that made him deeply suspicious.

Naturally Naruto has been unaware of all the times Sakura's growing love for him has been obvious, so all he has to fall back on are memories of her old crush on Sasuke and they add fuel to his mistrust. His own feelings / bonds / commitments don't waver, so it's almost impossible for Naruto to imagine (much less believe) that Sakura might no longer love Sasuke the way she once did. In fact it's so impossible for him that he accuses her of lying to herself.

But you'll notice that after she gets angry and says that if he hates her to just say so, he doesn't deny his feelings for her. He only says that her timing doesn't make sense, and that her explanation for it sounds like a painful excuse -- both of which are 100% correct. He still senses she's holding something back, but he's calmer and more accepting of what she's said about her feelings for him, and acknowledges that the promise between them no longer matters. I'm left with the impression that they're on a more equal footing, and finally let go of a lot of emotional baggage they've both been carrying.

I think Naruto needed to realize that his determination to save Sasuke couldn't be about a promise he'd made to Sakura in childhood. It has to be about his commitment to Jiraiya's quest, and his vow to Nagato that he would bring about change. As Naruto later says to Kakashi, he can't become Hokage if he can't even save his friend. By letting go of the original promise, Naruto and Sakura can remove Sasuke from their personal relationship, and Sasuke then becomes a symbol of Naruto's greater promise to Nagato and Jiraiya.


P.S. Kakashi watching Sakura hug Naruto and saying, "Sakura...you..." It kills me how, after this scene came out in the manga, Kakashi's reaction was perceived by some as disappointment in Sakura. I don't see how that could possibly be the interpretation.

what do you mean by painful excuse?

[KnS]

what do you mean by painful excuse?

If I'm not mistaken, Naruto was translated as saying (in 206) that Sakura's explanation sounded like a "painful excuse." Am I misquoting? o__O

[Yoshimoya]

People tend to forget that Naruto can be really dense and as he's shown during the confession, stubborn, when it comes to Sakura and her feelings. When it comes to Sakura's feelings, he still thinks of the Sakura in part one. This event, and the upcoming ones will break down and disperse that image Naruto has so long been accustomed to with Sakura. Not only that but everything with Sasuke too. The amount and profound truth in all of the recent revelations he will face results in his hyperventillating and he passes out. This shows the many thoughts he still held in his view of saving Sasuke and Sakura's feeling. It's all new, suprising, and different to him. Fortunately, he grasps all of what he's learned and probably knows now that Sakura's romantic feelings are now in his ballpark and up to him. However, theres too much going on to be focused on that kind of thing at the moment. First things first you know.

[Evil Potato]

I disagree, Naruto knows Sakura very well, thus why he argues with her in the first place. Sakura comes to him out of no where professing her love to him, then tells him to forget Sasuke because she doesn't care about him anymore. Its not like Naruto looks at her like she is the same little girl, just that he knows that she doesn't just throw her feelings out in an instant.

I believe it comes down to this basic fact. Naruto knew Sakura was hiding something but he didn't force information out of her. He just argued with her and tried to explain why he can't just forget about Sasuke. From there he watches Sakura leave. Beyond that, yes, Naruto was dense, he couldn't figure out the rest, and he couldn't figure out what exactly Sakura was hiding from him, but that of course gets explained.