Jump to content

Close
Photo

Naruto 573


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
237 replies to this topic

#61 Konohakitten

Konohakitten

    I ship faster than FedEx

  • Summoning Master
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,313 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:New Mexico
  • Interests:Spending time with my husband and sons of course. Playing video games, drawing, writing fanfics, reading, watching crime shows, and paranormal shows.

Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:21 PM

Good chapter overall, it was nice getting to see all the Rookies say something to Naruto. I must admit the whole Hinata spoiler thing got me peeved, but seeing the panel with her made me feel better fu.png She looks so depressed, and frankly her little thought was so selfish. Everyone is concerned with Naruto, Kakashi, and Guy, oh but not Hinata. No she's thinking about what's important to "HER" It was reassuring to see that she will never change. I just hope she focous on the fight and acutally helps Naruto instead of concerning herself with his safety during the battle, we dont need anymore pain moments.

Anyhow my hubby and I were reading the chapter together and when we both saw Sakura we were like wow she looks hot XD That girl has some determination behind her, and we all know Naruto gives her that power. This fight is going to be epic!! It would have been a perfect chapter to me if Sasuke wasnt at the end hm.png Then again we all know how I feel about....him dry.gif I feel kinda bad for him, he doesn't look the same at all. He's so going to throw a wrench into this fight. Part of me hopes that Sasuke is too strong for his own good and completely disobeys Tobi. If it's one good thing Sasuke can do it's that.

Edited by Konohakitten, 08 February 2012 - 05:22 PM.

tumblr_ooscnzcUtt1uz1wpso1_500.gif



 

#62 Ani

Ani

    Legendary Ninja

  • ANBU
  • 3,058 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:TX, USA

Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:34 PM

Merging the topics.

#63 Nate River

Nate River

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kage
  • 5,982 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:38 PM

QUOTE (tricksie @ Feb 8 2012, 08:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good points all.

I tend to think like Madz and Kim: yeah, this was meant as a NH moment. The language is so specific and personal. Hold your hand.... Wait for me.... She's not saying she'll stand by his side and face the future. She's thinking of him romantically. And that's ok.


Yeah, it's as many have said previously. It restates what we already know. She is thinking of him romantically, but that's been clear since at least 2009 when she openly stated she loved him. If I was a NH fan I'd be happy because it would mean it still exists and that all the talk of closure was premature.

Outside of that it doesn't do anything to advance it and it's not worth worrying over.

QUOTE
However, this has set the Hinata-character-development-o-meter back to zero! She's still the same, pursuing her own goals through Naruto. She has not reached a parallel love yet.


I wouldn't say zero. I would call zero going back to the early stages of Part 1 where a seven year old was kicking her butt.

That said, I'm kind of bugged by the way some people are emphasizing this. Between this and the spoilers thread her inward focus is talked about like it makes her a horrible person and that is what should be taken away from it.

I agree with you that her love for him if focused inward. Aside from simply not likely Hinata, my biggest gripe with the NH pairing is that it is not and never has been a pairing between equals. While I'm not sure Kishimoto is expressly intending to co this, the flip to the heroworship is tht she views herself as inferior to him. As long as she does that it will, as you say, not be a parrellel love. Normally when people say it is not equal it is because one dominates at the expense of the other, but here it's all Hinata and her view of herself.

Despite the romantic tilt, I thought to the boarder point of what she said was at least a personal acknowledgement to herself that this was the case. She finally realized what she was doing and how she was approaching it and so it's a vow to that. Of course, I'd still want to see action, especially because of the last NH moment.

That last interaction, I thought, was the real step backward. After coming through in the Pain fight (without getting into the merits about the quality of the aid) she wilts in front of his presence. Again. After displaying great courage in front of Pain, she goes back to doubting herself and has to be talked up. Again. And there wasn't even a really good reason for it. I don't recall her failing in any significant aspect. Oh, if I were a big Hinata fan, I'd have been a bit aggravated despite the moment they had.

Here, I'd call it staying in neutral. A step foward in that at least she seems to finally acknowledge how she has been viewing herself and vowing to improve on that, but a step back because it reinforces her last appearance and that step back from Pain. Kishimoto really should have offed her against Pain. Would have been a great way to go out and left, at least me, convinced she had finally gained the confidence she desired. I wouldn't have doubted she had it. Now, I do and because of that I want to see more CONSISTENT action, not just words.

Anyway, back to my original point. I don't think this aspect of the love is meant to leave the reader with a bad or negative impression. I don't like her, but I don't think Kishimoto is sending the message that I shouldn't. If her goal is to be the weak loser that acquires the strength to stand on her own then it makes sense that it is inwardly focused if that is how she is aquiring the strength. I have to wonder what he would have done had people not latched on to it as a major pairing in the chunnin exams because that goal can be accomplished with or without her love without changing much.

I do agree that when compared with others who are worried about him she still speaks to herself does make her look bad both as being selfish and as a sign of weakness (for lack of a better word), but I don't think the intent is specifically to make her look like a complete selfish person we should despise for having that trait.

That said I think your right in the comparison of the types of love signify and intent to do something different with each character. I think the Hinata centric nature of the whole thing signifies that it's meant to be a vehicle getting her from A to B rather than the end itself. Personally, I would prefer that when she gets closure she completely moves past the love because for the entire series Naruto has been her crutch (not to mention my own pairing bias). It would be nice if she completely stood on her own.

#64 shadow_Uzumaki

shadow_Uzumaki

    If you can't say something nice....

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,089 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota
  • Interests:Stuff

Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:58 PM

Only thing I'll say, pairing-wise.

I don't think Hinata's declaration degenerates any character development back to her former, stalker-ish, shy girl self. If anything, it shows how confident Hinata has become. She's not stuttering, she's not looking timid or shy, but she WILL try and win Naruto's heart. Fine, her dreams are focused on one guy, there's something wrong with that? In the end, I doubt she'd go yandere but instead bow gracefully if Sakura or any other girl captures Naruto's heart. She can concede defeat knowing she tried her best and not bow down without a fight.

Same thing during the Pein arc. While Sakura didn't join in to fight Pein because she knows Naruto's capabilities, Hinata joining in is a bit admirable (but it still serves the purpose of pissing of Naruto. It could've been anyone that was taken down by Pein in front of Naruto and he would've gone all Kyuubi, regardless). I don't see anything that detracts Hinata at all. Try to view this chapter more objective. Nothing is set in stone until Naruto has chosen who he wants to be, so don't freak out.

Ugh, ended up rambling. Now, back to the chapter, proper.

The (Final?) Reunion of Team 7 approaches. What will be the outcome?

Tobi's unnerved and he doesn't realize it, very impressive. Though Naruto looks exhausted, so it's possible that he's gonna lose ground soon.

Also, if this was Gurren Lagann, imagine the Spiral Power emanating from the Shinobi Alliance..... Could probably match Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann.


And, lastly, I fear that Sasuke might win their incoming bout because Naruto's weakened and tired, not because they're equal in power....Which is how he "won" against Itachi and Orochimaru..... Very ninja-esque, actually, but ultimately unsatisfying....

#65 Fyuria'sLeo

Fyuria'sLeo

    Dork

  • S-Class Missing Nin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,847 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston
  • Interests:Space, Video Games, Drawing, Writing, Science, Reading, Friendship. Mostly things about space.

Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:16 PM

My body isnt ready to handle this kinda battle!!!! Great chapter dont really care for what Hinata said but Ino and Sakura made everything better.

8c5a9c63d23baf4e9d077bf65597592bb55115a2


#66 CloudMountainJuror

CloudMountainJuror

    Zac the CMJ

  • S-Class Missing Nin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,726 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA

Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:27 PM

QUOTE (shadow_Uzumaki @ Feb 8 2012, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Only thing I'll say, pairing-wise.

I don't think Hinata's declaration degenerates any character development back to her former, stalker-ish, shy girl self. If anything, it shows how confident Hinata has become. She's not stuttering, she's not looking timid or shy, but she WILL try and win Naruto's heart. Fine, her dreams are focused on one guy, there's something wrong with that? In the end, I doubt she'd go yandere but instead bow gracefully if Sakura or any other girl captures Naruto's heart. She can concede defeat knowing she tried her best and not bow down without a fight.

Same thing during the Pein arc. While Sakura didn't join in to fight Pein because she knows Naruto's capabilities, Hinata joining in is a bit admirable (but it still serves the purpose of pissing of Naruto. It could've been anyone that was taken down by Pein in front of Naruto and he would've gone all Kyuubi, regardless). I don't see anything that detracts Hinata at all. Try to view this chapter more objective. Nothing is set in stone until Naruto has chosen who he wants to be, so don't freak out.

Confident? Sure. Her entire character is still revolved around Naruto. That's what makes her basically the same person that she was in Part 1. She's come out of her shell a little, but her basic existence is the same. That's why she's still an extremely shallow character.
Hinata joining the Pein fight was admirable, but also stupid and, as she admits herself, selfish. Even she admitted that it was selfish.

"The time has come at last for you to learn everything . . .

Fare thee well, Albert, my friend."

 

AboojTi.gif


#67 Fenris

Fenris

    back from the dead

  • Legendary Ninja
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,273 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:alive

Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:29 PM

QUOTE (tricksie @ Feb 8 2012, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good points all.

I tend to think like Madz and Kim: yeah, this was meant as a NH moment. The language is so specific and personal. Hold your hand.... Wait for me.... She's not saying she'll stand by his side and face the future. She's thinking of him romantically. And that's ok.

However, this has set the Hinata-character-development-o-meter back to zero! She's still the same, pursuing her own goals through Naruto. She has not reached a parallel love yet.

Sakura, by contrast, has achieved a parallel love. Naruto never questioned the length and breadth of Sakura's love when he pursued Sasuke for her. He did it because he loved her and he wanted to see her happy. Her goals were his goals. It's the same here: Sakura is no longer questioning his love. She loves him. She knows it now. His goals are her goals. She's going to do this for him and for the goals that they share (love of Konoha), and she's wants everyone to support him. (Mirroring Naruto's move to bring Sasuke back and doing it as a unit. Not by himself.)

Oh yeah, and I agree with ciardha's post a few pages back: Sakura definitely is following the model of love relationships put forth in the manga. Strong women who support their men in partnering roles. There simply is not a model for Hinata's kind of love. There is no "shy, long-suffering girl finally wins the guys attention" type of storyline. Even in the anime. The women are all powerful in their own right. So Hinata is set up as the foil.

Remember, friends: If you think this is bad...wait until the inevitable SS resurrection. It will happen. Believe it. Just like with these little NH flutters, there is bound to be some references to SS, either from Sakura or those around her.

Ok, no more pairing. About the chapter: I'm getting a little frustrated with Madara standing around and watching. The hint of him looking nervous. He's gotten this far, where's his plan? Naruto's just standing in front of him powering up. C'mon! Go for him! Now's your chance!

Love that Kishimoto is a visual storyteller. Sometimes it really stands out. The contrast between the running ninjas, the black clothes and the streaked faces, is so sharp between the visual silence of the open mud flat. And that image is repeated and repeated, giving the reader a break and a buildup. You can almost hear the rain as you're reading it, can't you? And it takes a few panels to realize that there is one set of footprints, not many. And by the time you do, there is a dark figure on the horizon. Then to be followed by what has to be the creepiest picture yet of evil Sasuke.... Kishimoto is really looking forward to this!

I wonder where we will go from here. Will everyone show up for a battle royal, or is this a red herring? Is this a way to check in on everyone, one last time, before the fight gets isolated. The words at the end about Sasuke said nothing about him joining the fray, just that carnage was about to happen. Very overt. So I'm wondering if this isn't going to be a bait-and-switch. We're expecting one thing and we get something entirely different.


You're right. I do believe that Sakura knows she loves Naruto now, it's obvious.

QUOTE
That's why she's still an extremely shallow character.


Edited by Fenris, 08 February 2012 - 07:31 PM.

 
 
tumblr_nn5rgcX8lv1rq9ihbo4_500.gif
 
jus drein jus daun.
---------------------------------------------------

 

 


#68 shadow_Uzumaki

shadow_Uzumaki

    If you can't say something nice....

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,089 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota
  • Interests:Stuff

Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:50 PM

I wouldn't go far to say Hinata's extremely shallow. Is she after Naruto because he's OMFG, he's HAWT! That's shallow. No, Hinata's recognized Naruto's qualities beyond his mask of a prankster years before any of their peers recognized what a great person is. Everyone's just now recognizing Naruto's heroic and magnetic personality.

Why is it shallow? Is it because she's focusing on him when there's a war going on? Everyone's focusing on him, right now, anyway.... Like I said, Hinata's not gonna go crazy if she loses Naruto, but she will be very heartbroken.

#69 Fenris

Fenris

    back from the dead

  • Legendary Ninja
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,273 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:alive

Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:51 PM

QUOTE (shadow_Uzumaki @ Feb 8 2012, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wouldn't go far to say Hinata's extremely shallow. Is she after Naruto because he's OMFG, he's HAWT! That's shallow. No, Hinata's recognized Naruto's qualities beyond his mask of a prankster years before any of their peers recognized what a great person is. Everyone's just now recognizing Naruto's heroic and magnetic personality.

Why is it shallow? Is it because she's focusing on him when there's a war going on? Everyone's focusing on him, right now, anyway.... Like I said, Hinata's not gonna go crazy if she loses Naruto, but she will be very heartbroken.

She didn't seem so heartbroken when she was happy that Naruto was hugging Sakura. confused.gif
 
 
tumblr_nn5rgcX8lv1rq9ihbo4_500.gif
 
jus drein jus daun.
---------------------------------------------------

 

 


#70 shadow_Uzumaki

shadow_Uzumaki

    If you can't say something nice....

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,089 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota
  • Interests:Stuff

Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:52 PM

QUOTE (Fenris @ Feb 8 2012, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
She didn't seem so heartbroken when she was happy that Naruto was hugging Sakura. confused.gif



Totally forgot about that. But, that can be interpreted as a friendly hug or a romantic hug. Either way, Hinata DOES recognize that Sakura is Naruto's closest female friend.

Still we can only speculate until it happens.

#71 FoolishYoungling

FoolishYoungling

    Jirou is best girl.

  • ANBU
  • 6,158 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:All Blue

Posted 08 February 2012 - 08:27 PM

I know I sound like a jerk here, but idc if Hinata is getting strong for Naruto, and talking about holding his hand. It doesn't make her like Kushina in anyway, so how does it affect the plot of the main story?

Edit: Oh, and Chouji is skinny now? Kishimoto, you screwed that one up... dry.gif

Edited by Sakura Lover, 08 February 2012 - 08:28 PM.

Left Hand to the Future Pirate King

 

Vinsmoke "Black Leg" Sanji

2XtVwF6.png


#72 shadow_Uzumaki

shadow_Uzumaki

    If you can't say something nice....

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,089 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota
  • Interests:Stuff

Posted 08 February 2012 - 08:39 PM

QUOTE (Sakura Lover @ Feb 8 2012, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know I sound like a jerk here, but idc if Hinata is getting strong for Naruto, and talking about holding his hand. It doesn't make her like Kushina in anyway, so how does it affect the plot of the main story?

Edit: Oh, and Chouji is skinny now? Kishimoto, you screwed that one up... dry.gif


Compared to his Part I self, yeah, Chouji IS skinnier. Plus, Chouji's acknowledging the changes and growth that's happened over the years.

What does Hinata being like Kushina have to do with anything? headscratch.gif

#73 FoolishYoungling

FoolishYoungling

    Jirou is best girl.

  • ANBU
  • 6,158 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:All Blue

Posted 08 February 2012 - 08:42 PM

QUOTE (shadow_Uzumaki @ Feb 8 2012, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What does Hinata being like Kushina have to do with anything? headscratch.gif

Kushina said "find someone like me" to Naruto, and I'm pretty sure you don't deny what your dead mother you only see once in your life tells you.

Left Hand to the Future Pirate King

 

Vinsmoke "Black Leg" Sanji

2XtVwF6.png


#74 dragonflyx11

dragonflyx11

    Chakra Tree Climber

  • Chakra Tree Climber
  • PipPip
  • 211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:canada

Posted 08 February 2012 - 08:51 PM

QUOTE (shadow_Uzumaki @ Feb 8 2012, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Compared to his Part I self, yeah, Chouji IS skinnier. Plus, Chouji's acknowledging the changes and growth that's happened over the years.

What does Hinata being like Kushina have to do with anything? headscratch.gif


chouji is skinnier cause he used his power. remember when chouji uses that special power it burns all his fat cause it uses so much chakra.

also the hinata being like kushina thing has to do with kushina telling naruto to find a girl like her and sakura is almost exactly like kushina.

#75 FoolishYoungling

FoolishYoungling

    Jirou is best girl.

  • ANBU
  • 6,158 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:All Blue

Posted 08 February 2012 - 08:53 PM

QUOTE (dragonflyx11 @ Feb 8 2012, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
chouji is skinnier cause he used his power. remember when chouji uses that special power it burns all his fat cause it uses so much chakra.

also the hinata being like kushina thing has to do with kushina telling naruto to find a girl like her and sakura is almost exactly like kushina.

Not 100% like, but maybe 80%. tongue.gif

Left Hand to the Future Pirate King

 

Vinsmoke "Black Leg" Sanji

2XtVwF6.png


#76 tricksie

tricksie

    Legendary Ninja

  • ANBU
  • 3,655 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:13 PM

QUOTE (shadow_Uzumaki @ Feb 8 2012, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Compared to his Part I self, yeah, Chouji IS skinnier. Plus, Chouji's acknowledging the changes and growth that's happened over the years.


Exactly, there so much focus on growth, change, development, and recognition in these panels. And Hinata's sticks out because on the one hand it's growth — she's finally making a commitment to a goal and sticking with it — but on the other hand it's growth for someone else, not herself. And that's not an admirable goal. Sorry, but it's not.

Growth for someone else defeats the whole purpose of a journey of self-awareness. No different than if it were Sakura saying "This time, I'll be there for him. I'll stand at his side and hold his hand." ("And this time he won't try to kill me.")

That's why it's a NH moment like all the rest, which is to say it's a one-sided declaration of love.

Another thing I forgot from before: Sakura's speech speaks more to her character development and less to her blind devotion. Her whole theme of development is "we'll do this together." From the very first time Naruto was in the hospital after he returned from the Save Sasuke arc. When she throws open the curtain and says "Next time we'll do it together."

When Sasuke nearly kills them at the beginning of Shippuden. Naruto is crying and she bolsters him by saying that he wasn't alone. They'd get stronger together.

When Sai says Naruto takes on everyone elses cares, and she says she realizes she still making mistakes. Then she goes out in a vain attempt to relieve his burden by trying to kill Sasuke.

So I think her declaration to support him is the natural step in her development. And she again becomes voice of the village and the window for the reader to access the story. She's carries everyone's love and support of Naruto with her. She says that yes he fought Pain alone. But now it was time for her and everyone else to support him.

So the reader is reassured that Naruto, the hero, is being recognized. Sakura ties it all the individual reflections together. And her words are the culmination of her individual journey for self-improvement.

#77 Madz

Madz

    Chakra Tree Climber

  • Chakra Tree Climber
  • PipPip
  • 242 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:17 PM

Another thing, I was sort of huh.gif when Hinata said 'I'll hold your hand".
At least be sure that the guy WANTS to hold your hand, for Pete's sake! Again, it shows how she thinks of only HERSELF.

#78 dragonflyx11

dragonflyx11

    Chakra Tree Climber

  • Chakra Tree Climber
  • PipPip
  • 211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:canada

Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:17 PM

QUOTE (Sakura Lover @ Feb 8 2012, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not 100% like, but maybe 80%. tongue.gif
thts why i said *almost* lol, but when it comes to being a woman an how they deal with the annoyances in there life they are pretty much the same. the only difference really is how sakura acts around sasuke (she becomes alot less confident)

#79 AchikaMiyu

AchikaMiyu

    Underpants Gnome

  • Chakra Tree Climber
  • PipPip
  • 293 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:32 PM

Wow, lots and lots of discussion. This is my take on Hinata:

I personally thought that she was growing a backbone. Sure it may have seemed selfish in the grand scheme of things, especially when comparied to the thoughts of the others, but don't forget who Hinata was before all of this. She was always facing criticisms from her father, her sister, her clan, etc. Anyone and everyone that should have been a support system for her were basically putting her down saying that she isn't strong enough or good enough. She knows that her younger sister is stronger and that there's been talk of having Hanabi override Hinata as the clan head. Hinata has always been watching people's backs and chasing them; not just Naruto.

Naruto was her guilty pleasure so to speak. A lot of her love comes from admiration because he's overcome his adversity and she can't. Like someone else in the thread said before, Hinata's talk of walking beside Naruto is similar to Sakura's when she became determined to improve herself after the Forest of Death. Hinata's just a bit of a late-bloomer in that department. As I recall, she was probably still being sheltered a bit by having a branch member constantly watching over her. Now that they're in the war, she's able to fight on her own.

So it may seem selfish for her, but she's never really had the chance to bloom like the others. Sakura has at least been given the freedom and chance to reach her full potential; Hinata hasn't yet. But now she wants to take the initiative and try to "walk hand in hand" with Naruto rather than silently stalking him in the shadows.

Now my eye is going to be on either Lee or Gai for these next few chapters. Both know how to release all of the gates. I'm wondering if one of them will do it. Lee has proclaimed in the past that he would die for Sakura . . .
End of line.

#80 KoolKat

KoolKat

    Feisty <3

  • Genin
  • PipPip
  • 134 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:46 PM

i honestly thought hinata had gotten over naruto but i guess i was wrong. but i guess hinatas speech didn't bug me that much because just cause she said her little naruto-kun speech doesn't mean naruhina is canon. seriously, i think naruhina fans are getting wayyyyy too excited about a small thing. i mean sure i would get happy over something that was ns similar to that but i wouldn't be like OMG NS IS SOOOO CANON like some(or most of them) naruhina fans out there. but besides that, did anyone else think sasuke looked pretty awesome in the last panel? and how pretty sakura looked when she was talking about naruto?

Edited by KoolKat, 08 February 2012 - 09:48 PM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users