123 replies to this topic

[Darth Krypt]

Actually, Naruto was able to sense everything going on because he was outside of the sealed room. It had nothing to do with the Shadow Possession. We already knew that his Sage mode was capable of detecting chakras at long range, like when he arrived at the ruins of Konoha.




Sakura: "Naruto! I thought you were dead!"

Naruto: "Er, I got better."






When things get serious, Naruto does mature. To be fair, Naruto only looked idiotic because Kishi was trying to inject some "humour" into the Bee training arc. In the serious scenes, Naruto does show intelligence and maturity.

I can understand his reaction. Who would sit back and be OK with their friends risking their lives? Naruto cares deeply about every single one of those bonds he has painstakingly built with everyone over the past years, and he doesn't want to stand idly by while they risk themselves for him. If they're going to fight, Naruto wants to do everything he can to help.

Kabuto will be very pleased to see Naruto arrive on the scene. I'm predicting that he decides to use the unknown corpse that shocked Madara... and it's the Yondaime. Either that, or he sends Itachi (who reminds Naruto about the "special power").

It'd be a really emotional scene if Naruto did fight his own father. Imagine just how shocked Sakura and the others would be if they heard Naruto's words to the legendary Yondaime Hokage:

Naruto: "Hey, Dad..."

Kyuubi Sage Naruto vs. Yellow Flash. That'd be epic.

I dont think its the Yondaime. Kabuto already explained in order to resurrect the dead he needs the full soul and since Minato sealed half of his soul into Naruto then it doesnt count. But his soul disappeared after using last of his power to reseal the kyubi in the Pain fight. So maybe the soul became complete again? However its not Itachi because he already resurrected the whole of team of Akatsuki including Itachi. AFTER that then he summoned the mysterious coffin. If memory serves me right that is.

[Codus N]

Even if it's half of his soul, it should still be possible although there might be a bit of drawback. Perhaps the soul binding won't be as stable as the other ET's. That, and I'm also hoping for Kushina and Jiraiya. It would be hellish torture for him. Just what Kabuto wants. (Yes, I believe Kabuto knows Kushina is the previous jinchuuriki and the mother of Naruto.)

Edited by Codus N, 15 April 2011 - 11:10 AM.

[Torxe]

Also, don't forget the yondaime's soul was sealed away by that technique he used to seal the kyuubi in Naruto (blanking the name atm);

Thought it was a really great chapter; Naruto totally owned his guardians without breaking a sweat and there were some of the best Jounin (Shikamaru's dad) present, so I'd say he's way past kage level.

Also I wonder why it is that his kyuubi form doesn't look anything like the nine-tails, if KB transforms he takes on the form of the Hachibi even with his version 2.
perhaps like harry4e suggested it has smthng to do with Naruto's connection to the Rikkidou Sennin.

Also someone mentioned that Naruto wouldn't be able to rely on shadow clones any more.
I think that's a wrong assumption considering Naruto is able to change between different modes (normal/sage/kyuubi mode) very fast as displayed in this chapter

[Codus N]

When things get serious, Naruto does mature. To be fair, Naruto only looked idiotic because Kishi was trying to inject some "humour" into the Bee training arc. In the serious scenes, Naruto does show intelligence and maturity.

I can understand his reaction. Who would sit back and be OK with their friends risking their lives? Naruto cares deeply about every single one of those bonds he has painstakingly built with everyone over the past years, and he doesn't want to stand idly by while they risk themselves for him. If they're going to fight, Naruto wants to do everything he can to help.

Kabuto will be very pleased to see Naruto arrive on the scene. I'm predicting that he decides to use the unknown corpse that shocked Madara... and it's the Yondaime. Either that, or he sends Itachi (who reminds Naruto about the "special power").

It'd be a really emotional scene if Naruto did fight his own father. Imagine just how shocked Sakura and the others would be if they heard Naruto's words to the legendary Yondaime Hokage:

Naruto: "Hey, Dad..."

Kyuubi Sage Naruto vs. Yellow Flash. That'd be epic.

Sorry for double posting, but I didn't realize you were replying to me. Anyways, that's not my point. Iruka said that he should trust in his friends. But nooo.... Naruto wants to go out there when his friends doesn't want him to. Shikamaru said it himself : They rely too much on Naruto. Now, it's time they take care of their problems. What Naruto is doing is completely selfish. He's completely disregarding everyone's feelings. He's always asked them to believe in him. And now when they ask him to believe in them, he doesn't care what they say. It's like only his opinion matter. They want to stop counting on Naruto and want him to count on them this time. But no, he completely disregards those requests.

Naruto doesn't care what they feel about him. He's said it himself, he wants to take on everybody's burden. But everybody doesn't think so. This is what Naruto doesn't realize. he knows what they think, but he ignores them. So I'll say it again. He doesn't care about his friends' feelings. A relationship is give and take, they willingfuly accepted his requests in the past. Now it's time he accepted their request for him to stay hidden and trust them. You seem to imply this is not a serious moment but it actually is. The world hangs in the balance and he's just going off on his own when the consequences mean that if he fails, everyone will be controlled by Madara. But he actually doesn't care and believes if he's fighting out there the world will be saved. When that's not true at all. Who says that if he fights out there the war will be won?? he thinks he can do everything. Who says his friends can't get the job done?? This is what Naruto is doing now. He's going on an acidic ego trip. I really hope Shikamaru punches the hell out of him to snap him out of his ego trip.

In fact, I believe Bee let him go on purpose so that he can learn his lesson the hard way. Bee likely went through something similar in the past. He was so strong that he thought if he was out there, everything will be finished in a jiffy. but the consequences were so great for him that he lost the trust of his friends. It probably took him years to regain them. Now that I think about it, why has he never skipped out of Kumo until Taka attacked?? there could've been tons of chances for him to escape. But he didn't because his friends trusted him to protect Kumo. He only skipped out because he thought that if they think he's dead, he wouldn't be under any pressure to go back and take his time goofing off. I'm sure if he heard Kumo was attacked he'd be back in a flash. He's just as selfish as Naruto, but at least he's reconsidering his friends' feelings for him to stay put in Kumo. Not only that, he also shows that if Kumo were under attack they would be hold the enemy back enough in time for him to return. I think he knows his friends can get their job done of protecting Kumo enough until he comes back. This is shown how carefree he was when he escaped. He already knew the Kumo shinobi were strong. He trusts in his friends' abilities. This what Naruto is lacking. His lack of trust in his friends will probably be a plot point later.

[tricksie]

Sorry for double posting, but I didn't realize you were replying to me. Anyways, that's not my point. Iruka said that he should trust in his friends. But nooo.... Naruto wants to go out there when his friends doesn't want him to. Shikamaru said it himself : They rely too much on Naruto. Now, it's time they take care of their problems. What Naruto is doing is completely selfish. He's completely disregarding everyone's feelings. He's always asked them to believe in him. And now when they ask him to believe in them, he doesn't care what they say. It's like only his opinion matter. They want to stop counting on Naruto and want him to count on them this time. But no, he completely disregards those requests.

Naruto doesn't care what they feel about him. He's said it himself, he wants to take on everybody's burden. But everybody doesn't think so. This is what Naruto doesn't realize. he knows what they think, but he ignores them. So I'll say it again. He doesn't care about his friends' feelings. A relationship is give and take, they willingfuly accepted his requests in the past. Now it's time he accepted their request for him to stay hidden and trust them. You seem to imply this is not a serious moment but it actually is. The world hangs in the balance and he's just going off on his own when the consequences mean that if he fails, everyone will be controlled by Madara. But he actually doesn't care and believes if he's fighting out there the world will be saved. When that's not true at all. Who says that if he fights out there the war will be won?? he thinks he can do everything. Who says his friends can't get the job done?? This is what Naruto is doing now. He's going on an acidic ego trip. I really hope Shikamaru punches the hell out of him to snap him out of his ego trip.

In fact, I believe Bee let him go on purpose so that he can learn his lesson the hard way. Bee likely went through something similar in the past. He was so strong that he thought if he was out there, everything will be finished in a jiffy. but the consequences were so great for him that he lost the trust of his friends. It probably took him years to regain them. Now that I think about it, why has he never skipped out of Kumo until Taka attacked?? there could've been tons of chances for him to escape. But he didn't because his friends trusted him to protect Kumo. He only skipped out because he thought that if they think he's dead, he wouldn't be under any pressure to go back and take his time goofing off. I'm sure if he heard Kumo was attacked he'd be back in a flash. He's just as selfish as Naruto, but at least he's reconsidering his friends' feelings for him to stay put in Kumo. Not only that, he also shows that if Kumo were under attack they would be hold the enemy back enough in time for him to return. I think he knows his friends can get their job done of protecting Kumo enough until he comes back. This is shown how carefree he was when he escaped. He already knew the Kumo shinobi were strong. He trusts in his friends' abilities. This what Naruto is lacking. His lack of trust in his friends will probably be a plot point later.

I thought along those same lines when I was reading about his flashback to Nagato. Nagato says specifically that war doesn't work. And what is Naruto doing? Running right off to "end the war."

So here's where the plot hinges nows: we don't know how he plans to do that. His statements of 'I'm stronger,' 'I'll end it myself,' lead me to believe he is going to go take the route of fighting his way to peace. Which means that the peace he brings will be the same as the sage of six paths: it only lasts as long as the strongest guy's around.

Or he could have some other idea about how he's going to use his strength to bring about peace other than fighting.

My feeling is that he's going to charge in, get his ass handed to him, and have to rethink his strategy. It will make for a much more interesting story if he is. Otherwise, he's going to overpower everyone and the story's over.

There simply hasn't been enough build up yet for him to come and save the day.

And the brutal war Nagato talked about is not what's going on here. This has been a handful of days, weeks even. Nagato lived in a war time his entire life. He had known loss and death since he was a child, and it never stopped. Naruto has not known any of that, with the exception of Jiraiya. Wipe out your village, kill the ones you love in front of your eyes, then live on only to see the ones you love sacrifice themselves for each other, and in the end to have it all come to nothing. That's what Nagato was talking about.

Naruto's got a taste of it. And wants to stop it before it starts, of course. But I think there is more to come than just a straightforward war. I think the 'come back alive' statement is a little bit of a twist. The Pein arc certainly shows that you can come back "alive" but your soul has died years before — as in Yahiko.

So I don't know if it's overcoming insurmountable odds or excruciating heartache, or both, but if Naruto's on a true hero's journey, then there's more to come. However everything depends on how long Kishimoto wants to keep this going. He could throw a curve ball, or he could just have a straightforward ending. And I think the stage is set for both. Which is probably exactly what he wants the readers to think!

[AchikaMiyu]

Sorry for double posting, but I didn't realize you were replying to me. Anyways, that's not my point. Iruka said that he should trust in his friends. But nooo.... Naruto wants to go out there when his friends doesn't want him to. Shikamaru said it himself : They rely too much on Naruto. Now, it's time they take care of their problems. What Naruto is doing is completely selfish. He's completely disregarding everyone's feelings. He's always asked them to believe in him. And now when they ask him to believe in them, he doesn't care what they say. It's like only his opinion matter. They want to stop counting on Naruto and want him to count on them this time. But no, he completely disregards those requests.

Naruto doesn't care what they feel about him. He's said it himself, he wants to take on everybody's burden. But everybody doesn't think so. This is what Naruto doesn't realize. he knows what they think, but he ignores them. So I'll say it again. He doesn't care about his friends' feelings. A relationship is give and take, they willingfuly accepted his requests in the past. Now it's time he accepted their request for him to stay hidden and trust them. You seem to imply this is not a serious moment but it actually is. The world hangs in the balance and he's just going off on his own when the consequences mean that if he fails, everyone will be controlled by Madara. But he actually doesn't care and believes if he's fighting out there the world will be saved. When that's not true at all. Who says that if he fights out there the war will be won?? he thinks he can do everything. Who says his friends can't get the job done?? This is what Naruto is doing now. He's going on an acidic ego trip. I really hope Shikamaru punches the hell out of him to snap him out of his ego trip.

In fact, I believe Bee let him go on purpose so that he can learn his lesson the hard way. Bee likely went through something similar in the past. He was so strong that he thought if he was out there, everything will be finished in a jiffy. but the consequences were so great for him that he lost the trust of his friends. It probably took him years to regain them. Now that I think about it, why has he never skipped out of Kumo until Taka attacked?? there could've been tons of chances for him to escape. But he didn't because his friends trusted him to protect Kumo. He only skipped out because he thought that if they think he's dead, he wouldn't be under any pressure to go back and take his time goofing off. I'm sure if he heard Kumo was attacked he'd be back in a flash. He's just as selfish as Naruto, but at least he's reconsidering his friends' feelings for him to stay put in Kumo. Not only that, he also shows that if Kumo were under attack they would be hold the enemy back enough in time for him to return. I think he knows his friends can get their job done of protecting Kumo enough until he comes back. This is shown how carefree he was when he escaped. He already knew the Kumo shinobi were strong. He trusts in his friends' abilities. This what Naruto is lacking. His lack of trust in his friends will probably be a plot point later.

I have to disagree with you on this. I don't think it's really so much that Naruto doesn't care about his friends' feelings, but he cares too much. That's why he's going off to try and stop the war. He doesn't want to be the reason why his friends are risking their lives. He's always sacrificed his feelings and well-being for his friends (i.e. POAL, trying to save Sasuke, reviving Gaara, etc.). That's his nature and his friends know that that's his nature. Because everyone is doing their best to protect Naruto and Naruto is doing his best to protect everyone doesn't mean that one-side must disregard the other's feelings. I think he knows how much his friends are fighting for him and want him to live.

But also remember that before this he had his conversation with his mother and got to learn more about his father. His parents have only strengthened his resolve to do his best to put an end to Madara and his path of destruction, so it's also personal for Naruto. Minato never had a second thought when he decided to put his life on the line to protect Konoha during the Kyuubi attack or to sacrifice himself not because he was Hokage, but because he loved all of Konoha, especially Kushina and Naruto. That also brings me to an interesting thought. Naruto's actions do show maturity. He's starting to rise up to Kage level. If there's one thing that the manga has shown about all of the great Kages is that they did what they could for the village. Minato, Gaara and Tsunade put their life on the line when their village was in need. Naruto's putting his life on the line now that the entire shinobi world is in need. The other Kages are also putting themselves out there in this war to fight.

I don't think Bee let him out on purpose. To me, Bee is one card short of a full deck. He also has more of a "whatever happens, happens," sort of approach to things. So I don't think it was really planned so Naruto can go out and learn a lesson. Plus, Bee doesn't really know Naruto as well as everyone else so probably couldn't predict that he was going to bail on him.

Honestly, I don't see Naruto going into the heart of battle where everyone else is. I see him going straight to Madara or Kabuto to confront them. Those who are the root of the problems so it would make sense if he wanted to end the war, to take them out first. Though Naruto is unpredictable so he may do something crazy like try to find Sasuke and confront him one last time.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

I also see a parallel between Luke Skywalker and Naruto here. Both rushed off to rescue their friends in the middle of their training, both warned that doing so will make their friends' sacrifice in vain. Just an observation.

Also, it couldn't be the Yondaime in that unknown coffin. His soul is sealed inside the Shinigami. The remnant inside Naruto was just a chakra imprint, not an actual piece of his soul, so they can't use THAT as a reason to bring him back.

[TAMU Express]

I know you guys think it is impossible to summon the Yondaime, but it could be. Kabuto explained the jutsu to Madara but intentionally held things back from him to get some leverage. I would not be surprised if he lied and at some point Father vs. Son happens. Don't count it out quite yet.

[Otaru]

I think it's the real body of Madara in that coffin.
Because they said it was "that".
They didn't talk about it as a person, but as a thing.

About Naruto, I agree very much with AchikaMiyu.

[ShippudenGirl]

I think it's the real body of Madara in that coffin.
Because they said it was "that".
They didn't talk about it as a person, but as a thing.

Eww... he'll be all icky and gross looking. That reminds of the guy of Who Framed Rodger Rabbit and he ended up being an icky, cereal killer cartoon, lol

[Otaru]

lol ^^ maybe it's true Madara stole Obito's body... I don't know... Obito was a child, but maybe they find a way to make him grow... :S

[CloudMountainJuror]

This is, by far, the best Naruto chapter I've read in a very long time...

[ciardha]

lol ^^ maybe it's true Madara stole Obito's body... I don't know... Obito was a child, but maybe they find a way to make him grow... :S

Well, Obito wasn't dead yet when they had to leave him there, and it said (in the second databook I believe) that when they went back to retrieve his body it was gone.... Yeah, I've kind of been suspicious that's what happened, and my guess is the body in the coffin is Madara's real body.

[The Tax-Man]

Well, Obito wasn't dead yet when they had to leave him there, and it said (in the second databook I believe) that when they went back to retrieve his body it was gone.... Yeah, I've kind of been suspicious that's what happened, and my guess is the body in the coffin is Madara's real body.

Uh...no. The databook never says that. Obito/Tobi Theories are far fetched. And yes, I do compare them to SasuHina, personally. No ground other than a humorous pun in names. Like, Do people not want Obito dead and are thinking that?

To me it's not even an option. I'd be if it was true. I WOULD like that deep down, though.

Edited by The Tax-Man, 16 April 2011 - 02:39 AM.

[TAMU Express]

Yeah the Madara is Obito thing would not be that bad of a plot move. The problem is the fans have hashed out so many theories for it, and the whole revelation would lose the zip to it.

Edited by TAMU Express, 16 April 2011 - 02:45 AM.

[The Tax-Man]

Exactly. Which is what makes it a bad move. Kishimoto is way more unpredictable than that. He would, in my opinion, have way more depth in Madara's story when it is revealed. There are countless ways to do that. But none of that fit the fans' predictions. We aren't plot masters. Neither do we know the general direction the plot is heading. Nor can we think in as much depth as Kishi can since we aren't the author and we don't have the motivation for the plot.

[StrawberryAcappella]

Oh My Gosh I really loved this chapter!!! especially the end when he read the note, made me chuckle

[K9ofChaos]

I imagine Kishimoto will stay way from any WWII references...that did not really work out for Japan.

I really don't see Naruto killing Sasuke out of rage. I could see like an Old Yeller situation where the rabid dog is put down out of sympathy or sadness.

Isn't Naruto's faction basically a World War 2 reference in that it's name is similar to the Allied Forces but with the word Shinobi added to it. I'm not sure what Kishimoto's stance on World War 2 is but you do have a point in that it could potentially cause a bit of controversy considering how things went down during and after the war I guess. I would really appreciate it if you could explain more in-depth about why you think it wouldn't be a good idea if Kishimoto wouldn't do that if you have a bit of prior knowledge about Japan during World War 2. I am aware of the war crimes the Empire of Japan committed during the war but I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge on the subject, that's all.


On your second point. Thank you for pointing that out because now I can strengthen my argument and eliminate any confusion (to an extent). Of course Naruto wouldn't kill Sasuke out of rage because that would be out of character. If Sasuke killed Iruka or generally anyone close to Naruto he would be very upset at the unfortunate circumstances. He would then realize that saving Sasuke would just simply not work out and would have to go through what you described as an "Old Yeller situation" and put the Uchiha down like a dog with rabies while feeling great despair in the process.

[ShippudenGirl]

So... You guys don't think Naruto would be pissed as hell if Sasuke killed Sakura, Iruka or Kakashi? He would "sympathize" him? What the hell, he'd kick Sasuke's a$$! He wouldn't be like "Oh, Sasuke has no return," I think he'd be more then ready to kill his sorry butt. He's already witnessed Sasuke's change.

[tricksie]

Isn't Naruto's faction basically a World War 2 reference in that it's name is similar to the Allied Forces but with the word Shinobi added to it. I'm not sure what Kishimoto's stance on World War 2 is but you do have a point in that it could potentially cause a bit of controversy considering how things went down during and after the war I guess. I would really appreciate it if you could explain more in-depth about why you think it wouldn't be a good idea if Kishimoto wouldn't do that if you have a bit of prior knowledge about Japan during World War 2. I am aware of the war crimes the Empire of Japan committed during the war but I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge on the subject, that's all.

Interesting - I hadn't really gotten the WWII reference until then, but you're right about the allied forces stuff. I wonder if the literal words in Japanese are Shinobi Allied Forces or if that is our closest tranlsation. It may be intentional from Kishimoto, or it may be the translator has grabbed the easiest words, not really aware of historical significance.

On the completely-off-topic Madara/Tobi issue, I've been rethinking this lately. I've always figured Madara was Obito because of name similarity, looks and emotional significance to the story (the connection to Kakashi and all that. Madara would be just that much more villainous if he took sweet Obito's body.) But lately I've been wondering if he is in fact another Uchiha from the massacre.

Since Madara was involved, he could have certainly targeted and killed an Uchiha with a much more powerful sharingan and used his body as a shell. Like Shisui? (I know, there's a lot of problems with that choice, but just as a "for instance.")

But then again, Madara and Kakashi both use teleportation jutsu through the sharingan, so that's another mark for the eyes being from the same set. I wonder if the same sharingan, used against itself, would cancel it out or render it powerless? Sort of a fail safe for the division of the eyes. But then again, Madara has that "wall o'sharingan" to draw from. He could easily slip in another one, I suppose.

Alrighty. I'm done thinking about the logistics of stealing eyeballs.