8046 replies to this topic

[sushi.]

Endgame Zoro and Sanji will be above admiral level, although Zoro moreso than Sanji. Jinbe isn't commander level, but not as strong as an admiral. He might stand up to one but would be defeated eventually.

[AHK]

Endgame Zoro and Sanji will be above admiral level, although Zoro moreso than Sanji. Jinbe isn't commander level, but not as strong as an admiral. He might stand up to one but would be defeated eventually.

Based on what? Why would Sanji go from needing a raid suit to even be competitive, to being way above Jinbe? Jinbe right now is commander level, so you’re saying in essence that Jinbe would plateau. There really isn’t a reason that Jinbe shouldn’t be at or above Sanji’s level, and not below give what we’ve seen.

[FoolishYoungling]

It says that in literally every single translation. Raws, MS, JB, and the official translation:

 

spoiler

 

 

Sanji knows that his bounty only went up because of Germa, because they bothered to print his real name on the Wanted Poster. That is evidence enough.

 

Where did I ever rank Diafuku? All I said was that you have absolutely no evidence that he's stronger than Pica, let alone by a significant margin. My point was that he was absolutely ravaged by Zoro. He didn't get the better of Oven. He snuck up on him. Not to mention, Morgans was not there to see that. So that statement is irrelevant, in that it wouldn't have had anything to do with the bounty increase anyway. He didn't one shot two pirates over 100 million. If you're counting Bobbins in that, again, Morgans didn't see that. As for Raisin, we didn't see what happened to him, and then immediately after that he got slammed by Yuen. Both of those instances offset, and Morgans would have seen those. He also would have seen Germa saving Sanji, if you really want to go there. So no, Morgans didn't see anything that Sanji did that would have resulted in that increase. That again backs up the fact that Sanji's bounty increase came from his name, which he said himself. And none of what you mentioned is deserving of that regardless.

 

He didn't get "that much haki". Sanji has still yet to show that he has hardening. He didn't take Daifuku's black blade. The genie wasn't using hardening either, or Sanji would have ended up like he did against Vergo. Sanji had trouble defending against an normal spear blade when he fought Judge. He did not gain haki like you said he did.

 

Sanji was only the third strongest in the crew because nobody else joined that was stronger than him. That doesn't mean that somebody can't join in the future that is stronger than him. Jinbe already joined, and is stronger than Sanji at this moment which is displayed by the presence of the raid suit. With or without the raid suit, it doesn't matter. Sanji isn't getting the raid suit to be stronger than Jinbe, he's getting the raid suit to compete in the NW. That doesn't mean he will be stronger than Jinbe or Zoro, it means that he has to catch up. Jinbe has fought against a Yonko. His strength isn't going to just plateau so that Sanji can save face. There's no reason to think that Jinbe will be weaker than Sanji, when Sanji would need a raid suit to begin with to even keep up with him.

What... You think that means his name gave him that bounty? He gets depressed that they put his full name on there because he doesn't want to be labeled a Vinsmoke. Where does it say he got the increase from the name? For all he did in WCI, he deserves 330. You don't get out alive of the stuff Sanji went through there without being worth that much. We have nothing in that translation saying his name gave him the bounty, just your personal assumption that I see next to nobody else having.

 

Morgans saw him kick Big Mom and deflect some of Daifuku's attacks. As well as being one of the 4 main fighters for the Big Mom assassination attempt. Add to it they know he dodged Katakuri and betrayed Big Mom as the to be husband of Pudding. You attack Big Mom and live to see tomorrow? You getting 300+ million from me, at the very least even if you have done nothing else your entire life. You also mentioned him being saved by Germa (while carrying Luffy btw), but fail to mention Sanji saving Germa. Also, we don't know what word traveled around WCI of Sanji's actions on Oven. 330 really isn't that much. That's why him and Zoro are due big jumps in Wano, because they need to reach Yonko Commander level. Sanji IS worth 330, before a haki jump and putting on a suit. That isn't saying a whole lot.

 

Sanji fought against a Yonko too. So what? Ain't like they either could hold their own against them for more than a few minutes of falling back if they 1v1'd. They would be demolished. His raid suit helps him keep up more with Zoro and the Yonko Commanders for Wano.

 

Based on what? Why would Sanji go from needing a raid suit to even be competitive, to being way above Jinbe? Jinbe right now is commander level, so you’re saying in essence that Jinbe would plateau. There really isn’t a reason that Jinbe shouldn’t be at or above Sanji’s level, and not below give what we’ve seen.

Wait... WHAT!? Cracker, the weakest commander in the entire world, is stronger than Doflamingo. That guy, he gave Luffy and Law a 500 million bounty because they thought they double teamed him. You know what people get for double teaming Jinbei? Probably 250 million a piece. Jinbei doesn't beat Cracker, no way in the world.  And he sure as heck doesn't come close against Doffy either. Even if Jinbei is higher than Sanji with the raid suit, Jinbei has like 10x more experience to be a fragment stronger than a 21 year old Sanji? Yeah, just like Zoro, he would jump him if he wasn't already stronger.

[Phantom_999]

Uh, since when were bounties power levels?  I was under assumptions that they meant how much you were worth to be captured or killed, so it it's not like it indicates how strong you are. It is just how infamous and how well you are known in the world. Like sure, the strongest Pirates and Outlaws do have the highest bounties on them, but that is only because their rep is JUST AS FEARSOME as their strength, so just because someone has a lower bounty doesn't mean they are weak, they are just more under the radar than others, at least that is how I think it should be 

Edited by Phantom_999, 09 May 2018 - 01:17 AM.

[AHK]

What... You think that means his name gave him that bounty? He gets depressed that they put his full name on there because he doesn't want to be labeled a Vinsmoke. Where does it say he got the increase from the name? For all he did in WCI, he deserves 330. You don't get out alive of the stuff Sanji went through there without being worth that much. We have nothing in that translation saying his name gave him the bounty, just your personal assumption that I see next to nobody else having.
 
Morgans saw him kick Big Mom and deflect some of Daifuku's attacks. As well as being one of the 4 main fighters for the Big Mom assassination attempt. Add to it they know he dodged Katakuri and betrayed Big Mom as the to be husband of Pudding. You attack Big Mom and live to see tomorrow? You getting 300+ million from me, at the very least even if you have done nothing else your entire life. You also mentioned him being saved by Germa (while carrying Luffy btw), but fail to mention Sanji saving Germa. Also, we don't know what word traveled around WCI of Sanji's actions on Oven. 330 really isn't that much. That's why him and Zoro are due big jumps in Wano, because they need to reach Yonko Commander level. Sanji IS worth 330, before a haki jump and putting on a suit. That isn't saying a whole lot.
 
Sanji fought against a Yonko too. So what? Ain't like they either could hold their own against them for more than a few minutes of falling back if they 1v1'd. They would be demolished. His raid suit helps him keep up more with Zoro and the Yonko Commanders for Wano.
 
Wait... WHAT!? Cracker, the weakest commander in the entire world, is stronger than Doflamingo. That guy, he gave Luffy and Law a 500 million bounty because they thought they double teamed him. You know what people get for double teaming Jinbei? Probably 250 million a piece. Jinbei doesn't beat Cracker, no way in the world.  And he sure as heck doesn't come close against Doffy either. Even if Jinbei is higher than Sanji with the raid suit, Jinbei has like 10x more experience to be a fragment stronger than a 21 year old Sanji? Yeah, just like Zoro, he would jump him if he wasn't already stronger.

Lol do you not know how to read? It literally says word for word in the fourth panel on the page "It went up because of that cursed Germa name." Sanji didn't do anything in WCI. The panel confirms that across all translations, that his bounty only went up because of Germa. It isn't a "personal assumption that nobody else has", it's a statement by Sanji himself. Sorry it doesn't fit your headcanon.
 
Morgans saw Sanji block BM's punch with Luffy's help, and of the two, Morgans cares about Luffy, not Sanji. Morgans would have seen Sanji block one attack from Diafuku. Dodging Katakuri's bullet means nothing, and the part about "betraying Big Mom as the husband of Pudding" means literally nothing as well, neither one of those constitute the bounty raise. Not only that, but Morgans wouldn't have cared given that Luffy burst out of the cake right after. Both of those are irrelevant. Sanji carrying Luffy is not the same thing, as Morgans already knew that Luffy beat Katakuri. Sanji "saving" Germa also would have meant nothing. All he did was stand on a table. The story there would have been Luffy's arrival, not that. We do know that nothing went around about Sanji doing what he did to Oven, because that was the entire point of what he did. The purpose of what he did to Oven was to attack without being seen. He kicked Oven in front of a group of civilians and nobody noticed, because it was too fast. Honestly, with how fast you pull out these random things that have no bearing on Sanji's bounty, I half expect you to say that Sanji deserves 333 mil just for breathing.
 
No, he didn't. Sanji blocked a normal attack, right alongside Luffy. Jinbe tanked a raging Yonko's serious attack, and then sent her off their ship. Sanji would have gotten obliterated. The two scenes aren't even comparable. Sanji's raid suit makes it so that he can fight in the New World, as everything that he has shown thus far coupled with the presence of the raid suit suggests that he cant keep up with the top dogs.
 
You have zero evidence to call Cracker the weakest commander in the world. Jinbe would beat Cracker. In case you forgot, Jinbe's FK works by using water around him. I don't need to remind you why that's important against Cracker. Also, by what made up metric are you judging how much defeating Jinbe and Doflamingo is worth? They only moved up around 100 million each. That isn't that impressive, and would be something Jinbe would likely give them if he got defeated by them. He's tremendously respected in regards to his strength, as Sengoku proved.

Uh, since when were bounties power levels?  I was under assumptions that they meant how much you were worth to be captured or killed, so it it's not like it indicates how strong you are. It is just how infamous and how well you are known in the world. Like sure, the strongest Pirates and Outlaws do have the highest bounties on them, but that is only because their rep is JUST AS FEARSOME as their strength, so just because someone has a lower bounty doesn't mean they are weak, they are just more under the radar than others, at least that is how I think it should be 

Since FY tried to overrate Sanji. Bounties are guidelines, and they're a relative guage for where a character is. They incorporate strength, but outside factors can exist and be taken into account. For instance, Sanji's bounty is 330 million because he is related to Germa, and not because of feats performed on his own.

Edited by AHK, 09 May 2018 - 02:00 AM.

[sushi.]

Based on what? Why would Sanji go from needing a raid suit to even be competitive, to being way above Jinbe? Jinbe right now is commander level, so youre saying in essence that Jinbe would plateau. There really isnt a reason that Jinbe shouldnt be at or above Sanjis level, and not below give what weve seen.

Because Luffy will be pirate king??

[AHK]

Because Luffy will be pirate king??

Er, why would that not apply to Jinbe?

[Phantom_999]

Oh Just a bit of "return fire" For Jordan, since he insulted a pairing of mine recently.  Nami won't get together with Sanji, His eyebrows are ugly

[FoolishYoungling]

Lol do you not know how to read? It literally says word for word in the fourth panel on the page "It went up because of that cursed Germa name." Sanji didn't do anything in WCI. The panel confirms that across all translations, that his bounty only went up because of Germa. It isn't a "personal assumption that nobody else has", it's a statement by Sanji himself. Sorry it doesn't fit your headcanon.
 
Morgans saw Sanji block BM's punch with Luffy's help, and of the two, Morgans cares about Luffy, not Sanji. Morgans would have seen Sanji block one attack from Diafuku. Dodging Katakuri's bullet means nothing, and the part about "betraying Big Mom as the husband of Pudding" means literally nothing as well, neither one of those constitute the bounty raise. Not only that, but Morgans wouldn't have cared given that Luffy burst out of the cake right after. Both of those are irrelevant. Sanji carrying Luffy is not the same thing, as Morgans already knew that Luffy beat Katakuri. Sanji "saving" Germa also would have meant nothing. All he did was stand on a table. The story there would have been Luffy's arrival, not that. We do know that nothing went around about Sanji doing what he did to Oven, because that was the entire point of what he did. The purpose of what he did to Oven was to attack without being seen. He kicked Oven in front of a group of civilians and nobody noticed, because it was too fast. Honestly, with how fast you pull out these random things that have no bearing on Sanji's bounty, I half expect you to say that Sanji deserves 333 mil just for breathing.
 
No, he didn't. Sanji blocked a normal attack, right alongside Luffy. Jinbe tanked a raging Yonko's serious attack, and then sent her off their ship. Sanji would have gotten obliterated. The two scenes aren't even comparable. Sanji's raid suit makes it so that he can fight in the New World, as everything that he has shown thus far coupled with the presence of the raid suit suggests that he cant keep up with the top dogs.
 
You have zero evidence to call Cracker the weakest commander in the world. Jinbe would beat Cracker. In case you forgot, Jinbe's FK works by using water around him. I don't need to remind you why that's important against Cracker. Also, by what made up metric are you judging how much defeating Jinbe and Doflamingo is worth? They only moved up around 100 million each. That isn't that impressive, and would be something Jinbe would likely give them if he got defeated by them. He's tremendously respected in regards to his strength, as Sengoku proved. Since FY tried to overrate Sanji. Bounties are guidelines, and they're a relative guage for where a character is. They incorporate strength, but outside factors can exist and be taken into account. For instance, Sanji's bounty is 330 million because he is related to Germa, and not because of feats performed on his own.

Oh ok, didn't see that. Don't know how I kept missing it. My bad.

 

Like I said, we the readers saw what he did. We know he is worth over 330 million, just as we know Zoro is already worth double his bounty without a jump in haki. It makes sense now why only Luffy got a higher bounty, and people like Jinbei, Nami and Brook just didn't, despite feats in battle.

 

As for the feat against Big Mom, remember that not only was he fighting a handicap Big Mom, but he was surrounded by water. All of that, just to have her charge at him again and beat him if not for Nami and Brook being right there to do the stun attack. The attack relied on a weak Big Mom, water being all around them, and her being in a stuck position in air, not allowed to use her Yonko-level speed to easily dodge. Remember Zeus not being a riding option for her as well? All that, to just give her a tickle she would quickly respond to. We see 2 panels later her about to attack. Take away Brook and Nami zapping her with Zeus, and you have a defeated Jinbei real quick, even with all the handicaps against Big Mom there.

 

The main argument for Jinbei > Sanji is saying Jinbei will continue to grow in strength, while the main argument for Sanji > Jinbei is that everyone but the guy who has been a great pirate for about 20 years now will continue growing. I know every Straw Hat except Luffy is getting 2x stronger in Wano. But why would Jinbei?  He has been battle tested multiple times. Yeah Zoro can fight somebody 1 billion+ in Wano, and be pushed to his limits. Yeah, Sanji can fight someone at 700-950 million and be pushed to his limits. Even if Sanji was meant to be #4 in the crew, he is still fighting somebody at bear minimum 600 million in Wano. It's time for the people supporting Luffy to all be considered threats in their own rights. But here's the thing. Why would Jinbei being pushed to his limits make him 2x stronger?

 

Cracker was the lowest commander on the weakest Yonko's crew. Yeah, he's the weakest one. Jinbei can't use the water in his body against him if he is in a suit, and there is surely a limit to how much water he can make appear. Unless he keeps sending waves of water at thousands of cracker suits, he's taking the L.

Oh Just a bit of "return fire" For Jordan, since he insulted a pairing of mine recently.  Nami won't get together with Sanji, His eyebrows are ugly

The only ship I care for in OP is Zoro x Tashigi. Sanji x Nami has a solid 0.1% of happening.

[sushi.]

Er, why would that not apply to Jinbe?

Why would I repeat the discussion you just had with FY, I'm not interested in writing neverending essays with you just because I make one post.

[rocci]

Anyone want to bet that Betty is Luffy mother

[LuckyChi7]

Time to see what's going to go down in this following chapter: 

 

Chapter itself:

 

https://readms.net/r...iece/904/5058/3

 

 

My live reaction: 

 

[AHK]

Karasu is epic. Second favorite Revolutionary behind Dragon. His ability is badass.

Oh ok, didn't see that. Don't know how I kept missing it. My bad.

 

Like I said, we the readers saw what he did. We know he is worth over 330 million, just as we know Zoro is already worth double his bounty without a jump in haki. It makes sense now why only Luffy got a higher bounty, and people like Jinbei, Nami and Brook just didn't, despite feats in battle.

 

As for the feat against Big Mom, remember that not only was he fighting a handicap Big Mom, but he was surrounded by water. All of that, just to have her charge at him again and beat him if not for Nami and Brook being right there to do the stun attack. The attack relied on a weak Big Mom, water being all around them, and her being in a stuck position in air, not allowed to use her Yonko-level speed to easily dodge. Remember Zeus not being a riding option for her as well? All that, to just give her a tickle she would quickly respond to. We see 2 panels later her about to attack. Take away Brook and Nami zapping her with Zeus, and you have a defeated Jinbei real quick, even with all the handicaps against Big Mom there.

 

The main argument for Jinbei > Sanji is saying Jinbei will continue to grow in strength, while the main argument for Sanji > Jinbei is that everyone but the guy who has been a great pirate for about 20 years now will continue growing. I know every Straw Hat except Luffy is getting 2x stronger in Wano. But why would Jinbei?  He has been battle tested multiple times. Yeah Zoro can fight somebody 1 billion+ in Wano, and be pushed to his limits. Yeah, Sanji can fight someone at 700-950 million and be pushed to his limits. Even if Sanji was meant to be #4 in the crew, he is still fighting somebody at bear minimum 600 million in Wano. It's time for the people supporting Luffy to all be considered threats in their own rights. But here's the thing. Why would Jinbei being pushed to his limits make him 2x stronger?

 

Cracker was the lowest commander on the weakest Yonko's crew. Yeah, he's the weakest one. Jinbei can't use the water in his body against him if he is in a suit, and there is surely a limit to how much water he can make appear. Unless he keeps sending waves of water at thousands of cracker suits, he's taking the L.

Yeah, we saw what he did, which wasn't much. Never said that he wasn't worth 330 mil, just that he didn't do anything in WCI to earn it.

 

He wasn't fighting a handicapped BM, he was fighting a BM that was seriously trying to kill them all. I don't know how water being all around them is a handicap for BM. She created a tsunami from it, it obviously didn't phase her. Jinbe also didn't use the ocean against her. Zeus being away and her being unable to ride him isn't a handicap either. She was with Perospero, who was transporting her the entire time.

 

Why wouldn't it? Why would everybody but Jinbe get stronger? That makes no sense, considering that the enemies get stronger too. Your only fallback is age, and Brook is older than Jinbe is. Brook has steadily gotten stronger. To suggest that Jinbe wouldn't get stronger is to deny one of the themes of the story, where they all get stronger with each passing island. It's something that Zoro specifically remarked on.

 

How is BM the weakest Yonko? What proof do you have for that? Jinbe doesn't need water waves for FK. It uses the water around the user, like the water in the air. Jinbe was able to easily remove BM from their ship, Cracker's suits of armor aren't going to be near as difficult as that. Jinbe has an advantage simply because he's using water, which is explicitly his weakness.

Why would I repeat the discussion you just had with FY, I'm not interested in writing neverending essays with you just because I make one post.

You're the one that jumped in. If you don't want people to respond, then don't post. No need to go at others like they did something wrong for responding to a comment that you made in a conversation that you jumped in.

Edited by AHK, 11 May 2018 - 05:21 PM.

[sushi.]

I'm sorry I might have been too passive-aggressive. Still I can give my input without wanting to spend all my days here going in circles with you. Your debates with FY never really go anywhere so I'll leave it at one post.

[FoolishYoungling]

Your debates with FY never really go anywhere so I'll leave it at one post.

Sanji > Jinbei thoooooo

[Frankie]

Karasu is definitely a shout-out to the Yu Yu Hakusho villain with the name and face mask he has on.

[sushi.]

Sanji > Jinbei thoooooo

Not sure about now I just said endgame Sanji is def >Jinbe.

[FoolishYoungling]

Not sure about now I just said endgame Sanji is def >Jinbe.

Yeah that's how I feel about it.

[rocci]

Not sure about now I just said endgame Sanji is def >Jinbe.

I think oda Will keep the trio monster with Luffy, Zoro, and sanji in that order.
So no jinbe to replace sanji.

Unless oda change his mind like certain Mangaka.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Anyone want to bet that Betty is Luffy mother

Where that came from? D:

 

Sanji > Jinbei thoooooo

Franky=Jinbei>Sanji