19964 replies to this topic

[Chatte]

I'm not defending this SS user since I think he/her is biased as hell, worst giving affirmation of NH being canon next chapter like if they know what is going to happen next chapter. That's why I stated many times, it's a waste of time arguing against a NH or SS fan, they don't focus on the Manga event and revelation, characters behavior or reason behind sorting hints/foreshadowing in the Manga, they focus on the pairing the like and nothing else, it's almost like a desire to prove the NS camp that we are wrong.

Anyhow that was not why I quoted you, the reason was to clarify that Naruto is not saving Sasuke because of Sakura, the promise of a life time was about Naruto's feelings for Sakura. Naruto was about to say Sasuke anyway without Sakura's intervention, why? because he also have a bond with Sasuke that he doesn't want to lose.

What Sakura did was give Naruto a stronger resolve to see her happy since it hurt him that she will never loving but hurt him 100 times more see her hurt the way she was, his desire to see her happy and protect her smile goes above his own feelings and the only person can break that kind of mentality is Sakura and no one else.

Short words saving Sasuke is to keep his bond with Sasuke and his desire to see Sakura happy again.

Well, I tried to make a reasoning with her since she's a SS shipper and I was a former SS.
But after seeing the way, my job there is done.

So don't worry, I get where you're coming from.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

And that's a perfectly reasonable way to be. There are a few people that I choose not to engage in debate. Simply because it makes me crazy! But that's my choice, not theirs. Debate isn't about agreement, or swaying one party to another side. Good debate manages to shed even a little light on something you hadn't thought of before, and that's good enough. And when you get to a point where you can't take anymore, then politely bow out, dignity intact.

edit: and the same is true if someone is hardcore trying to force you to see their beliefs without ever acknowledging that your beliefs are valid to you. When I see that happening, I know the person is more interested in winning the argument (not because we both have very good reasons behind what we believe and we both will walk away maybe not in agreement, but all the better for it). Anyway, there are always good reasons to walk away.

Besides, it's never the argument that matters, it's only how you handle it afterwards that counts.

WOW. Now that is pretty wise!

And the last opart is very true. It's something I still work on every day of my life.

[AzureWaters]

Naruto didnt put her above everyone else or above Neji, he thanked both.

The second bolded is about her development everyone is there fighting with Naruto.
This just sounds selfish.

So many panels about sakura expressing that she wanted to be more usefull for him, wanting to help him, take of his burden.
pretty much proves that you're readithat ng another manga.

No... I don't think so.

I don't agree with everything that poison is saying, but she is right in that Kishimoto is giving Hinata a bigger role regarding Naruto. Even with Neji's death, Naruto was focused on her throughout the chapter. Her speech is largely what woke him up out of his stump, while Kurama had a little input near the end.

Not saying that she means more to him than Sakura, but in regards to the rest of the rookies she is given more importance.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@Don-kun
Like we said yes she's not the reason for why he wants to save sasuke but like i said the promise was about "bring sasuke back to the village" and this part is about sakura which is like "saving sasuke and bring him back to the village" but now is just about saving him does not matte if he will come back to the village or not
Naruto's bond with sasuke is acknowledgement if sasuke acknowledge him as an equal he's done that's why he said "you still does not acknowledge me".

Hence sakura's word "i hope that everyone on team 7 has a happy ending".
What reinforces it it's the fact that Sasuke has team taka.

@azurewaters Kyuubi didnt had a little input, when he talked with kyuubi he still had doubts, when kyuubi reminded him about all the sacrifices he found his answer.

she played a role but not alone, Neji played a role too and even the kyuubi even with hinata appering neji too apeared despite being dead.
What i disagree is the part that he says that she's above everyone else, everyone is fighting with Naruto, and everyone will get their time to shine it's too early to make a conclusion saying that she alone did a big role.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 January 2013 - 09:18 PM.

[KeikoxYusuke]

No... I don't think so.

I don't agree with everything that poison is saying, but she is right in that Kishimoto is giving Hinata a bigger role regarding Naruto. Even with Neji's death, Naruto was focused on her throughout the chapter. Her speech is largely what woke him up out of his stump, while Kurama had a little input near the end.

Not saying that she means more to him than Sakura, but in regards to the rest of the rookies she is given more importance.

right now, it's a matter of will that importance she carries right now stay? I don't think it will...Hinata is a character who has this nice little moments, but after the moment is passed....the main characters tend to step up and take the stage...If that doesn't happen...I can't help be think it's really out of place.

And what I mean is...I don't want to see Hinata stealing the Heroine spotlight...I think this chapter is there for character development.. it's showing that Hinata's words in chapter 573 really was foreshadowing her character development. let's not forget that the FIRST think Hinata said, was that after this war, she won't be chasing him anymore....

[Don-kun]

No... I don't think so.

I don't agree with everything that poison is saying, but she is right in that Kishimoto is giving Hinata a bigger role regarding Naruto. Even with Neji's death, Naruto was focused on her throughout the chapter. Her speech is largely what woke him up out of his stump, while Kurama had a little input near the end.

Not saying that she means more to him than Sakura, but in regards to the rest of the rookies she is given more importance.

The only thing we can say for now is that Kishi promise that he will make all our favorite characters shine so if that is the case we can see why Hinata got so a big role since Naruto is her source of admiration on her strength plus she was the first one who made her vow in chapter 573.
So in some way it kind of make sense that Hinata get her chance to influence Naruto, but lets not try to diminish Neji's word because while Hinata was speaking Naruto's attention was on Neji's words until Kurama take him out that funk by making him reflect on all the person who also give their life and place their faith on him.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

The only thing we can say for now is that Kishi promise that he will make all our favorite characters shine so if that is the case we can see why Hinata got so a big role since Naruto is her source of admiration on her strength plus she was the first one who made her vow in chapter 573.
So in some way it kind of make sense that Hinata get her chance to influence Naruto, but lets not try to diminish Neji's word because while Hinata was speaking Naruto's attention was on Neji's words until Kurama take him out that funk by making him reflect on all the person who also give their life and place their faith on him.

This now concluding Hinata's role was bigger than sakura on this war but until now

[AzureWaters]

@Don-kun
Like we said yes she's not the reason for why he wants to save sasuke but like i said the promise was about "bring sasuke back to the village" and this part is about sakura which is like "saving sasuke and bring him back to the village" but now is just about saving him does not matte if he will come back to the village or not
Naruto's bond with sasuke is acknowledgement if sasuke acknowledge him as an equal he's done that's why he said "you still does not acknowledge me".

Hence sakura's word "i hope that everyone on team 7 has a happy ending".
What reinforces it it's the fact that Sasuke has team taka.

@azurewaters Kyuubi didnt had a little input, when he talked with kyuubi he still had doubts, when kyuubi reminded him about all the sacrifices he found his answer.

she played a role but not alone, Neji played a role too and even the kyuubi even with hinata appering neji too apeared despite being dead.
What i disagree is the part that he says that she's above everyone else, everyone is fighting with Naruto, and everyone will get their time to shine it's too early to make a conclusion saying that she alone did a big role.

Everyone will have their time to shine, but not in close proximity to Naruto. They might be able to show off their skills in battle, but in this instance Hinata renewed Naruto's resolve from wavering and that's something more personally connected with his character. Also she's going to have a big role anyway because she's fighting alongside him. The way it was depicted they won't be splitting up during the fight next chapter.

Truthfully I'm not sure what Kishi has planned for Sakura. Whatever she does he needs to take her off the sidelines and give her spotlight.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Everyone will have their time to shine, but not in close proximity to Naruto. They might be able to show off their skills in battle, but in this instance Hinata renewed Naruto's resolve from wavering and that's something more personally connected with his character. Also she's going to have a big role anyway because she's fighting alongside him. The way it was depicted they won't be splitting up during the fight next chapter.

Truthfully I'm not sure what Kishi has planned for Sakura. Whatever she does he needs to take her off the sidelines and give her spotlight.

This is the problem she didnt do it alone.
You're putting all the credits of this scene on Hinata when Naruto thanked both Neji and Hinata, i simply cant understand.
He may split up from her on the ending of the next chapter.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 January 2013 - 09:30 PM.

[AzureWaters]

This is the problem she didnt do it alone.
You're putting all the credits of this scene on Hinata when Naruto thanked both Neji and Hinata, i simply cant understand.

Neji didn't stop Naruto from wavering- in fact his death is what caused it. What Naruto thanks him for is for protecting him/ dying for him. In 615 Hinata and Kyuubi helped Naruto out, but her speech was the highlight of the chapter.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Neji didn't stop Naruto from wavering- in fact his death is what caused it. What Naruto thanks him for is for protecting him/ dying for him. In 615 Hinata and Kyuubi helped Naruto out, but her speech was the highlight of the chapter.

And?
during it kishi showed the whole army wavering, while she said naruto was thinking about Neji's words.
Her speech was to remind that giving up is the same as killing off his friends and kyuubi reminded him about his parents and their sacrifice, and that giving up would make their sacrifice meaningless in the end he thanked both hinata and neji, for being at his side.

[Don-kun]

Everyone will have their time to shine, but not in close proximity to Naruto. They might be able to show off their skills in battle, but in this instance Hinata renewed Naruto's resolve from wavering and that's something more personally connected with his character. Also she's going to have a big role anyway because she's fighting alongside him. The way it was depicted they won't be splitting up during the fight next chapter.

Truthfully I'm not sure what Kishi has planned for Sakura. Whatever she does he needs to take her off the sidelines and give her spotlight.

Dude Naruto say that he will become Hokage, no one doubt his word.
Naruto say that he will save Sasuke again no one doubt.
He will find a way to bring peace to the shinobi world, we believe him.


He said that he will only confess after Sasuke problem is out of the way and Sakura said that no matter what he says next time they will be together and also fight together, but we have some strong problems believing the two main character desire to be with each other, why is that?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Dude Naruto say that he will become Hokage, no one doubt his word.
Naruto say that he will save Sasuke again no one doubt.
He will find a way to bring peace to the shinobi world, we believe him.


He said that he will only confess after Sasuke problem is out of the way and Sakura said that no matter what he says next time they will be together, but we have some strong problems believing the two main character desire to be with each other, why is that?

I understand him he's concerned about Hinata's spotlight which is killing of Sakura's character.
As i do, that's why i'll wait the next chapter to make a conclusion.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 January 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[AzureWaters]

And?
during it kishi showed the whole army wavering, while she said naruto was thinking about Neji's words.
Her speech was to remind that giving up is the same as killing off his friends and kyuubi reminded him about his parents and their sacrifice, and that giving up would make their sacrifice meaningless in the end he thanked both hinata and neji, for being at his side.

I know what her speech was about; that's not what I'm arguing.

She reminded Naruto of Neji's last words, and she explains the meaning of what he said.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I know what her speech was about; that's not what I'm arguing.

She reminded Naruto of Neji's last words, and she explains the meaning of what he said.

I think you get what i said earlier.
I understand your concern.
Because about sakura she too said she wanted to fight alongside Naruto hence her words on 573, the question is this will happen , she will have a big role on this arc too, so will be with Naruto? because this battle will have a lot of "fights".

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 January 2013 - 09:45 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I always felt that Kuruma filled in the last half to make Naruto understand completely. Hinata does get the credit, but not all of it.

[Chucky-kun]

Neji just opened Naruto's eyes and made him realise that he's in a war, there's gonna be deaths and it's not his fault that they'll all willing to die for him.

[Don-kun]

I know what her speech was about; that's not what I'm arguing.

She reminded Naruto of Neji's last words, and she explains the meaning of what he said.

You are worrying too much about this current even that you're losing track of the Manga in a whole, the biggest problem we have is that none of us wanted Hinata to hold Naruto's hand and worst touch him the tender way she did, we always believable that Hinata can want anything she want but if Naruto the Main character says no then Hinata will never be able to hold his hand.

I'm annoyed by the way how Kishi is treating Naruto and Sakura, but what relieves me a little is that so far Kishi has not betrayed our main hero feelings and makes him fickle, Hinata might be gating a lot of focus that should be given to Sakura, but always remember Hinata was about the give her life for him, she already gave her life for him, she confessed her feelings for him, she always admired him and Naruto did not gave her the proper acknowledgment for her sacrifices, it took Najis dead for him to acknowledge her and in some way she deserved what happen to her character. Our only hope is that Sakura and Naruto finally get that moment to acknowledge each other, since Hinata got all what she wanted before the pairing drama was resolve and worse we could not sense any romantic atmosphere from Naruto, all we can do is hope that Kishi keep Naruto that way and Hinata keep her word.

Edited by Don-kun, 03 January 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You are worrying too much about this current even that you're losing track of the Manga in a whole, the biggest problem we have is that none of us wanted Hinata to hold Naruto's hand and worst touch him the tender way she did, we always believable that Hinata can want anything she want but if Naruto the Main character and he says no then Hinata will never be able to hold his hand.

I'm annoyed by the way how Kishi is treating Naruto and Sakura, but what relieves me a little is that so far Kishi has not betrayed our main hero feelings and makes him fickle, Hinata might be gating a lot of focus that should be given to Sakura, but always remember Hinata was about the give her life for him, she already gave her life for him, she confessed her feelings for him, she always admired him and Naruto did not receive the acknowledgment for her sacrifices, it takes Najis dead for him to acknowledge her and in some way she deserved what happen to her character. Our only hope is that Sakura and Naruto finally get that moment to acknowledge each other, since Hinata got all what she wanted before the pairing drama was resolve and worse we could not sense any romantic atmosphere from Naruto we can hope that Kishi keep Naruto that way and Hinata keep her word.

Don-Kon he's half right, the things is Naruto can finish those part without displaying feelings for Hinata, he didnt displayed any feelings for her and didnt give all the credit ot her this is the part that i disagree with AzureWaters but still Hinata did a more stuff compared to Sakura that's why he needs to do justice on this arc to show that she's the main heroine of the story he said she was.

For Naruto she's not above everyone else, as which NH and SS claims.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 January 2013 - 10:03 PM.

[Sojobo]

[quote name='Chatte' date='Jan 3 2013, 11:24 AM' post='426924'If the bond wouldn't have been there, Naruto wouldn't have rescued Sakura and gave Sasuke that killing intent look.

Let's talk about ''one'' of the most important bonds Naruto wants to have and that be having a family. Naruto doesn't like to be alone even RTN shows that.
He is forming several bonds like family for example, Iruka like older brother, Jiraya and Tsunade like grandparents, Sakura like a sister and for the last Sasuke like brother.
I said Sakura like a sister because what happen If she doesn't want to be with Naruto, so he will be alone. That is why Naruto is important that bond and the only thing to share with her is being his brother, and beacuse he has the half of his dreams. But what happen with other half of dreams? ( Yes Hinata is a chance but we do not know what will happen). Besides the undying of Naruto for Sakura still doesn't die (I think) and that is the reason he will not take that chance with Hinata but he will not be alone because he has Konoha.

First of all, let's talk about facts.
It's not Naruto but Sakura that is seeing him and Sasuke like her little brothers. The Databook confirms that, Sakura likes to play the role of the big sister with them, you can see her seperate them a lot when they are fighting together, she also holds their hands in the Chuunin Exam, like "come on, just make friends".
Naruto in the other hand doesn't see Sakura like a big sister at all, this is not the attitude that he's showing towards her.
Naruto is her light, he's the only one who brings her hope. He supports her in her lovestory.
And he does this for only one thing : Because he loves her, not like a sister but like a woman, a girlfriend.
He loves Sakura, he always did, if he doesn't love her anymore, that would be real bad writing, because Kishi doesn't show that in the manga.
Even if he gets together with Hinata, there will be no logic at all, cause Kishi didn't show a boy who can easly give up about his feelings for her. Feelings that are probably to strong to forget.
He did the same for her what did Hinata for him. He did even better, he risked his life against Gaara to save her, he sacrificed his happiness only for her, he only wants "her" hapiness, that's even why Kishi introduced Sai's speech at the snow village. Sai's words back there woudn't make sense if Naruto is in love right now with Hinata.

The only thing we have to worry about is Kishimoto's writing. If he's a good writer, than there wont be NH canon, cause he didn't gives the right developpement into the manga to change Naruto's feelings for getting him paired with Hinata. This developpement doesn't exist, the only developpement I see is a boy who gives all he got to make the one he loves happy, without asking something in exchange... that's all.
The guy doesn't give up, even if he doesn't get together with Sakura, even if she doesn't love her in the end, he doesn't care, he just loves her.
That's a development made so they can be together in the end, because Kishimoto plays a lot with Sakura's feelings at the same time.
Why do her saying that she doesn't understand her feelings for him in Zabuza's arc and in all 3 Databooks ? Why waiting the end of the manga to show her realize the meaning of those feelings ? Why creating Yamato's speech and Sai's questionning about her feelings for Naruto ?
Naruto doesn't get the "be in love with another person, learn to know about him" developpement. Sakura does.



I really hope Kishi doesn't make us Naruto in love with Hinata at the moment, because this just doesn't make sense right now.
Naruto can't see Sakura as a sister because he doesn't show this kind of attitude to her, like she did for him of Sasuke.
Naruto loves her, Sai isn't stupid either, Kishimoto didn't draw that panel for nothing.

I kinda understand that most of people aren'tso sure anymore about NS being canon, but just keep in mind what Kishimoto wrote in the past, and even recently with the movies and Chikara.
He is showing us Naruto loving Sakura. That's all we need to know.
Chapter 615 is just Hinata's final development, Kishi gives her what she wants, fighting holding Naruto's hands, and give some sh*tty fanservice for Hinata's fandom (NH fandom doesn't exist, they are just all Hinata fans who doesn't care about quality in the pairing story, it just confirmed with chapter 615)
Kishi said in his last ITW that everyone will get their moments. Hinata is the first one to show up, isn't this enough to let you know that she will not appears last ?
We all know that the last charecter getting final developpement will be the most important one into this fight against Obito.
Kishi gives us the impression to forget about her, but I'm sure she will get her story after all characters will be showed up. (Neji will not be the only one to die, be sure of that)

Just don't give a kitten about chapter 615, it's just Hinata's fanservice, like we will have some for Shikamaru and other characters.
Hope I convinced some NS fans here. ^^


See ya.

Sorry for my bad english, I'm russian.