19964 replies to this topic

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

edit: and the same is true if someone is hardcore trying to force you to see their beliefs without ever acknowledging that your beliefs are valid to you.

What I like to do is push to question even the very validity of "the opponent's" argument, to see if their premise even holds water. If the premise doesn't hold, arguments build on it don't either. Maybe this comes across very aggressive? Though it has also been my experience that sometimes merely disagreeing is seen as hostile. You can see this behaviour in the ch 615 thread where just mere sentiments expressing that NH might now happen got many angry and rude responses.

Possible NH canon??? Hm...right I'll hold on to you on that. Let's see if chapter 616 is the official chapter NH becomes canon or just another trolling move from Kishi. I will stand by my theory Kishi is only using Hinata (as pairing fodder she is) to make NS canon. I hope I hear from you when the chapter is release and you see there's no NH is canon in there. And I'm not being arrogant I'm just being logical and realistic because as I said many times before 615 is like 437 all over again when the chapter that was "supposedly" make NH canon was nothing but trolling from Kishi since he only used Hinata to make Naruto go nine tails and not to accept her confession and make the pairing canon. We all know how that ended after Naruto got hugged by Sakura and he didn't even thought about Hinata or even went to check on her if she was all right.

If NS becomes canon, of course I'll admit that I was wrong to believe in NH and SS canon. Why on earth I wouldn't?

Edit. So if NH becomes canon, will I hear you admitting that you were wrong? Or will I hear some more how Kishi is a bad storyteller and totally originally intended to make NS but just got money-hungry and went capitalist?

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 03 January 2013 - 06:24 PM.

[Anguyen92]

Edit. So if NH becomes canon, will I hear you admitting that you were wrong? Or will I hear some more how Kishi is a bad storyteller and totally originally intended to make NS but just got money-hungry and went capitalist?

I'll admit, if a certain event happens, that I was wrong to think that NS was the canon pairing that Kishi had intended. Sure, I thought that was the direction I thought he was going throughout the series and did not think that he would actually end in the direction that I did not want, but that's just how it is. Probably a twist of fate in the whole grand scheme of things where Kishi thinks that "maybe I want to see how this certain angle works, since I did not go for it earlier, and I want to try it now before it's really too late" (I'm not saying that he's thinking in that direction, but it's a small possibility it could happen).

Btw, with all of this recent events in the novel happening, let's just remember, Naruto and Sakura have yet to have a meaningful conversation on where those two are going. Let's just wait patiently for Kishi to show that part. I don't think he would make a pairing canon without having this aspect approaching the end of the story.

Then again, I thought a relationship would make or break on the basis of one final conversation, but what do I know? Hopefully, having NS talk to each other would help clear everything out, besides, even them talking in a non-intimate relationship manner is awesome anyway.

Edited by Anguyen92, 03 January 2013 - 06:41 PM.

[Gravenimage]

What I like to do is push to question even the very validity of "the opponent's" argument, to see if their premise even holds water. If the premise doesn't hold, arguments build on it don't either. Maybe this comes across very aggressive? Though it has also been my experience that sometimes merely disagreeing is seen as hostile. You can see this behaviour in the ch 615 thread where just mere sentiments expressing that NH might now happen got many angry and rude responses.


If NS becomes canon, of course I'll admit that I was wrong to believe in NH and SS canon. Why on earth I wouldn't?

Edit. So if NH becomes canon, will I hear you admitting that you were wrong? Or will I hear some more how Kishi is a bad storyteller and totally originally intended to make NS but just got money-hungry and went capitalist?

Actually yes I will admit I was wrong, I can swallow my pride easily. Though it's impossible to be wrong with the MANY chances Kishi has had in the entire manga to develop NH but instead he develops NS why would that be??? I doubt he will pull a Harry/Ginny.

Edited by Gravenimage, 03 January 2013 - 06:44 PM.

[Liu bie]

[quote name='Chatte' date='Jan 3 2013, 11:24 AM' post='426924'If the bond wouldn't have been there, Naruto wouldn't have rescued Sakura and gave Sasuke that killing intent look. [/quote]

Let's talk about ''one'' of the most important bonds Naruto wants to have and that be having a family. Naruto doesn't like to be alone even RTN shows that.
He is forming several bonds like family for example, Iruka like older brother, Jiraya and Tsunade like grandparents, Sakura like a sister and for the last Sasuke like brother.
I said Sakura like a sister because what happen If she doesn't want to be with Naruto, so he will be alone. That is why Naruto is important that bond and the only thing to share with her is being his brother, and beacuse he has the half of his dreams. But what happen with other half of dreams? ( Yes Hinata is a chance but we do not know what will happen). Besides the undying of Naruto for Sakura still doesn't die (I think) and that is the reason he will not take that chance with Hinata but he will not be alone because he has Konoha.

[MakeMoneyEatRice]

Why can't we just have fun debates anymore?

[PhenixElite]

If kishi makes NH canon i would admit that i was wrong, but no matter what i would call him one of the worst writters.

@Liu bie: Did you just say Sakura is like a sister for naruto??

[Don-kun]

When two parties have two different views and refuse to see the other side, nothing will change I've seen users on NF going over the same stuff over and over and no one acknowledge the other side point, the debate get so nasty that the mod have the need to close 4 or 5 debates and currently not allowing any pairing debate on NF.

You people will never agree with poison point of view do to the fact that SS relationship is so negative something you don't see with good eyes plus Naruto likes Sakura and she cares about him, the other user will never acknowledge our point because they don't see anything special between Naruto and Sakura plus the fact that Sakura even after she was almost killed by Sasuke still has lingering feelings for him, they know Sasuke is destine to be redeemed at some point and them everyone will magically forget all the stuff he did to others and all the suffering he created because he was a victim and he will creat a lot of Uchihas babies with Sakura.

This is only a endless circle and in no time people will get annoyed and get nasty at the user, so agree to disagree NS friends, the user will not keep debating if there isn't anyone who wants to debate with him/her.

If kishi makes NH canon i would admit that i was wrong, but no matter what i would call him one of the worst writters.

@Liu bie: Did you just say Sakura is like a sister for naruto??

^^
This my friend is one of the most desperate attempts I see people use in order to try and downplay Naruto romantic affection towards Sakura.

Naruto loves and respect Sakura's feeling but still loves her, no amount of denial will change that fact.

Edited by Don-kun, 03 January 2013 - 07:03 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

If NH is canon, then I'm wrong and it will be my first defeat in a pairing war. That said I will continue to read but I'll lose interest because it would seem that too much of anything is possible, even destroying the protoganist's character. I don't like the idea that selfish desire can win anything, which supposedly shows as a good thing. But it's not.

[Don-kun]

If NH is canon, then I'm wrong and it will be my first defeat in a pairing war. That said I will continue to read but I'll lose interest because it would seem that too much of anything is possible, even destroying the protoganist's character. I don't like the idea that selfish desire can win anything, which supposedly shows as a good thing. But it's not.

I agree with this.

If Hinata's love was painted by the author in a selfless manner then we could see the point of that relationship, but Hinata has never being concern about Naruto's problem, desire, dream, loves life, Sasuke, nothing, the only thing I see in Hinata is that she want's to get was she wants and she most get it because she loves him and he should.
Neji made it so obvious, Hinata's is willing to die for you, his feelings were never develop he need to loves her because she loves him.

Edited by Don-kun, 03 January 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[Liu bie]

If kishi makes NH canon i would admit that i was wrong, but no matter what i would call him one of the worst writters.

@Liu bie: Did you just say Sakura is like a sister for naruto??

If NS does not become canon, and I know my English is bad.

[Chatte]

He could be. But earlier he thanked Hinata for saving his life in the Pain arc. Now she is helping him again. Naruto could have noticed this himself and is thanking her literally for everything.


Why not just kill Sasuke and live with Sakura? Naruto is not even sad when considering his death with Sasuke. He is not thinking how, thanks to his sacrifice, Sakura can live on. He does not regret that he will never have a life with her. Nothing. Just "let's die, Sasuke, and be together. So glad I met you. You are my friend."

Yes he did. And how exactly does that decreases his bond with Sakura?

And what he wanted to do, give up on his life for Sasuke, it's just proven in the recent chapters. That his life is not his own, so he won't have to die in order to save Sasuke.

[merryGOflava]

.....debating is hard..

i don't think anyone will believe, or start to believe the other until one of them becomes canon for real.

not saying you should stop debating....just saying i'm not sure it's gonna get anyone anywhere at this moment. :3


but they are fun to read

[Chatte]

So what would convince you that Naruto's promise to bring Sasuke back/save him is not motivated mainly by Sakura?

Because what does not convince you include:

-Naruto saying so
-Naruto ready to leave after Sasuke before hearing from Sakura
-Shizune's trusted word doesn't weight anything to you either
-more

I feel that the upcoming weeks with possible NH canon are going to be very interesting if you haven't yet even accepted that Sakura is not even the main reason for Naruto wanting Sasuke back.

Well, yeah, nice way of debating.

I am out of this... sorry, can't take disrespectful ways of debating although they're coated in nice words.

Edited by Chatte, 03 January 2013 - 07:49 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I agree with this.

If Hinata's love was painted by the author in a selfless manner then we could see the point of that relationship, but Hinata has never being concern about Naruto's problem, desire, dream, loves life, Sasuke, nothing, the only thing I see in Hinata is that she want's to get was she wants and she most get it because she loves him and he should.
Neji made it so obvious, Hinata's is willing to die for you, his feelings were never develop he need to loves her because she loves him.

The worst part is that Hinata only knows Naruto by his way of ninja (hard work). Sakura knows more than that and I do mean more. I just realized that even anime fillers doesn't really go over with Hinata besides supporting his hard work pride. Even in the Search for Itachi Arc they didn't make her care for his sorrow/desire to find Sasuke and save him. Instead, they zoomed in Sakura after Naruto felt upset that they were too late. My point is that they all know that Sakura has much more involvement with Naruto than Hinata, even without making it force. That explains why Sakura made the most sense to be main character in the movie.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Well, yeah, nice way of debating.

I am out of this... sorry, can't take disrespectful ways of debating although they're coated in nice words.

I decided to leave the debate this guy does not know the difference between save sasuke and bring him back to konoha.

[Chatte]

I decided to leave the debate this guy does not know the difference between save sasuke and bring him back to konoha.

I have a problem with the way of debating...but anyway.
Guess that my expectations were a bit higher...

[Tsubaki]

so far one of the worst comments I've seen about Sakura.

"Sakura is not a character that Kishi wanted to have a impact on the main story with her skills... he made her to tie Sasuke with Naruto and to create a triangle of love , Sakura in the end will be a character that "revives" the uchiha clan by having a baby with Sasuke , her powers are not important for the story... also her personality and fellings towards Naruto that we all hate are there because Kishi whants people to understand that Naruto and Sakura are friends/buddys ( a friend/buddy will always hit you for fun or to make you understand something ) PS. Naruto will break the triangle of love by loveing Hinata in the end"

If something like that turned to be the Kishi's true intention I'll never respect him as a writer.

[Chatte]

so far one of the worst comments I've seen about Sakura.

"Sakura is not a character that Kishi wanted to have a impact on the main story with her skills... he made her to tie Sasuke with Naruto and to create a triangle of love , Sakura in the end will be a character that "revives" the uchiha clan by having a baby with Sasuke , her powers are not important for the story... also her personality and fellings towards Naruto that we all hate are there because Kishi whants people to understand that Naruto and Sakura are friends/buddys ( a friend/buddy will always hit you for fun or to make you understand something ) PS. Naruto will break the triangle of love by loveing Hinata in the end"

If something like that turned to be the Kishi's true intention I'll never respect him as a writer.

Oh, God no!
So, the fact that she happens to be the 3rd best medic is nothing to some, I guess...
And I second your opinion on the matter.

Edited by Chatte, 03 January 2013 - 08:38 PM.

[merryGOflava]

can't we just all get along XD and agree to disagree!!

i have naruhina friends and we debate and have fun! T^T

maybe if everyone stopped with the mean jabs, we could all debate calmly.


its hard to convince someone when you are calling them "arrogant", or "crazy", or "in denial".

it only makes people angrier and more likely to not listen to you.

so if you guys want a fun good debate everyone needs to take a step back and be kind.


..........i know i sound all goody goody......but you can't say i'm wrong right?


and if you can't debate at all :3 then just leave it alone no big :3 but we can all be friends! NARUHINA AND NARUSAKU alike >:U it's not that hard!!


now excuse me while i wash out my rainbow filled mouth XDDD

[Don-kun]

Well, yeah, nice way of debating.

I am out of this... sorry, can't take disrespectful ways of debating although they're coated in nice words.

I'm not defending this SS user since I think he/her is biased as hell, worst giving affirmation of NH being canon next chapter like if they know what is going to happen next chapter. That's why I stated many times, it's a waste of time arguing against a NH or SS fan, they don't focus on the Manga event and revelation, characters behavior or reason behind sorting hints/foreshadowing in the Manga, they focus on the pairing the like and nothing else, it's almost like a desire to prove the NS camp that we are wrong.

Anyhow that was not why I quoted you, the reason was to clarify that Naruto is not saving Sasuke because of Sakura, the promise of a life time was about Naruto's feelings for Sakura. Naruto was about to say Sasuke anyway without Sakura's intervention, why? because he also have a bond with Sasuke that he doesn't want to lose.

What Sakura did was give Naruto a stronger resolve to see her happy since it hurt him that she will never loving but hurt him 100 times more see her hurt the way she was, his desire to see her happy and protect her smile goes above his own feelings and the only person can break that kind of mentality is Sakura and no one else.

Short words saving Sasuke is to keep his bond with Sasuke and his desire to see Sakura happy again.