1001 replies to this topic

[redragon88]

I've seen potential in SK in the previous arcs, like when he saved her in their battle with Bee. Or because he lets her do as she pleases and doesn't push her away like he does with Naruto and Sakura. Or because she can stand up to him. His smile even saved her. He threw the potential bond away in this chapter.

For my gender's sake, unless Karin is acting, I would be very much against it. ^^

I'll try to break it down:

1) Sasuke said sumanakatta. You only say that when you genuinely want to express your regret for the wrong doings you made. And this is Sasuke we're talking about, do you really expect him to grovel in the dirt and cry to the heavens about how he's a horrible person? You seriously think that goes with Sasuke's character?

2) Karin is a human lie detector so she can easily tell if someone is lying. Karin was overwhelmed by Sasuke's honesty and genuine regret because, in all truth, neither she or most of the fandom were ever expecting Sasuke to actually own up to what he did and truly feel bad for his actions.

3) When Karin says it can't be helped as she clings to Sasuke she used a wording that expresses anger. This was explained in more detail with Tsubaki's post. When you think about this way it's almost like Karin said it in an almost threatening way, which is the reason Sasuke as that epic freaking out face for the first time ever.

4) Notice that in the next panels Sasuke lets Karin keep clinging to him. If it's out of fear or as a call back to the times he let her do so previously for reasons unknown, well, that's up to you.

Edited by redragon88, 15 April 2013 - 05:49 PM.

[Akashi]

I'll try to break it down:

1) Sasuke said sumanakatta. You only say that when you genuinely want to express your regret for the wrong doings you made. And this is Sasuke we're talking about, do you really expect him to grovel in the dirt and cry to the heavens about how he's a horrible person? You seriously think that goes with Sasuke's character?

2) Karin is a human lie detector so she can easily tell if someone is lying. Karin was overwhelmed by Sasuke's honesty and genuine regret because, in all truth, neither she or most of the fandom were ever expecting Sasuke to actually own up to what he did and truly feel bad for his actions.

3) When Karin says it can't be helped as she clings to Sasuke she used a wording that expresses anger. This was explained in more detail with Tsubaki's post. When you think about this way it's almost like Karin said it in an almost threatening way, which is the reason Sasuke as that epic freaking out face for the first time ever.

4) Notice that in the next panels Sasuke lets Karin keep clinging to him. If it's out of fear or as a call back to how she let her do so previously for reasons unknown, well, that's up to you.

this.
Kudos for you, red.

[Dkey]

I'll try to break it down:

1) Sasuke said sumanakatta. You only say that when you genuinely want to express your regret for the wrong doings you made. And this is Sasuke we're talking about, do you really expect him to grovel in the dirt and cry to the heavens about how he's a horrible person? You seriously think that goes with Sasuke's character?

2) Karin is a human lie detector so she can easily tell if someone is lying. Karin was overwhelmed by Sasuke's honesty and genuine regret because, in all truth, neither she or most of the fandom were ever expecting Sasuke to actually own up to what he did and truly feel bad for his actions.

3) When Karin says it can't be helped as she clings to Sasuke she used a wording that expresses anger. This was explained in more detail with Tsubaki's post. When you think about this way it's almost like Karin said it in an almost threatening way, which is the reason Sasuke as that epic freaking out face for the first time ever.

4) Notice that in the next panels Sasuke lets Karin keep clinging to him. If it's out of fear or as a call back to the times he let her do so previously for reasons unknown, well, that's up to you.

As I said this chapter felt very OOC, and what Karin did could only give you feelings of facepalming all the way to the back of your skull. But, after cooling down I realized that you can't judge everything from one chapter.

After reading the sumanakatta thing I also went and read a SaruKarin manifesto to see the SK shippers opinion. There are some things I agree with but still if what I've read is a foreshadowing maybe just maybe Kishi should've dedicated some more screen time to the both of them. Instead we got a chapter where everybody WTFed when Sasuke decided to join the alliance side then WTFed with Karin's reaction to Sasuke's apologized and to top it off we are WTFing on Kishi wondering what will this mean for NS.
Anyway I may be repeating myself but this chapter feels 1000000% OOC. Like someone else wrote it and not Kishi.

[T XD]

As I said this chapter felt very OOC, and what Karin did could only give you feelings of facepalming all the way to the back of your skull. But, after cooling down I realized that you can't judge everything from one chapter.

After reading the sumanakatta thing I also went and read a SaruKarin manifesto to see the SK shippers opinion. There are some things I agree with but still if what I've read is a foreshadowing maybe just maybe Kishi should've dedicated some more screen time to the both of them. Instead we got a chapter where everybody WTFed when Sasuke decided to join the alliance side then WTFed with Karin's reaction to Sasuke's apologized and to top it off we are WTFing on Kishi wondering what will this mean for NS.
Anyway I may be repeating myself but this chapter feels 1000000% OOC. Like someone else wrote it and not Kishi.

Bolded, you just answered yourself XD

This chapter is meant to be rushed. We have to see the next few chapters then we can judge if the plot is rushed or not, which I think it won't be rushed at all. Karin was shown that way in this chapter to show us that she still loves Sasuke, Sasuke giving an apology to her and her being reunited with them again.

Edited by T XD, 15 April 2013 - 06:50 PM.

[catsi563]

A lot of the reaction thats important is Sasukes actualy to that moment. Sasukes apology is HUGE because when has Sasuke Uchiha ever apologized to anyone save maybe Naruto?

Secondly his expression when Karin hug(gropes?) him is priceless, he looks twerrifed as if she were going to staba Kunai through his back at any moment because of what hes done.

Combined with the above posted analysis of the context and emotinal tone of the language used she is still pissed and hes veyr wary with good reason because he knows Karin is intimately capable of doing him damage.

And I again find myself having to Shoot down the Karin is worse than Hinata, Karin is a fangirl BS, She is not a fan girl in any stretch of the imagination as compared to Sakura pre time skip or Ino pre timeskip who we know to be Sasuke Fangirls, nor is she some wilting wallflower like Hinata.

She has always been bold, strong and courageous and willing to put her opinion on the table regardless of what anyone INCLUDING Sasuke thinks of it.

The fact that Sasuke if you look at their interactions rarely contradicts her opinion alone should tell you something about their relationship.

All of Karins fnagilr moments are always done in private or mentally. The exception is the moment with the photo where we were shown conclusively that it was an Act she wa sputting on to lure the guards into thinking she was crazy --hint it worked.

And this reunion moment in which we have yet to see the actual fallout.

And lastly one persons reaction remains to be AnaLyzed.

Namely Sasukes. in this case Sasuke apologized Sincerely as has been show above. A first to be sure. But denote he actualy as also mentioned above lets her hold onto him with no objection and little fuss.

How many people has Sasuke Uchiha avenger and so on and so forth let do that to him, and the hospital moment with Sakura doesnt really count because he was half catatonic at that moment and not responding to anyone at the time.

[Arachnia]

>implying that NH is not ridiculous when the main character spend the whole story pursuing Sakura and reinforcing his feelings for her.
Sorry but there's no way that NH could be properly done, Kishimtoo already did a lot of mistakes with Hinata and when she shows signs that she changed being Naruto centered she goes back to the same place.

let me put it this way everything kishi did with hinata for me is oke,but wht would be the mistake is NH canon
everything else is oke because it woul;d be fake if she dident care/liked /loved naruto but those she even know that he is in love with sakura mabey thats the end she finding out how he really feels and mabey yelling too him dont be a coward or something make it known your self but i doubt that happens:P but still naruto now lacks the courage i say.

[The Tax-Man]

I'll try to break it down:

1) Sasuke said sumanakatta. You only say that when you genuinely want to express your regret for the wrong doings you made. And this is Sasuke we're talking about, do you really expect him to grovel in the dirt and cry to the heavens about how he's a horrible person? You seriously think that goes with Sasuke's character?

2) Karin is a human lie detector so she can easily tell if someone is lying. Karin was overwhelmed by Sasuke's honesty and genuine regret because, in all truth, neither she or most of the fandom were ever expecting Sasuke to actually own up to what he did and truly feel bad for his actions.

3) When Karin says it can't be helped as she clings to Sasuke she used a wording that expresses anger. This was explained in more detail with Tsubaki's post. When you think about this way it's almost like Karin said it in an almost threatening way, which is the reason Sasuke as that epic freaking out face for the first time ever.

4) Notice that in the next panels Sasuke lets Karin keep clinging to him. If it's out of fear or as a call back to the times he let her do so previously for reasons unknown, well, that's up to you.

For now, I agree. This chapter hinted at SK, no matter how much that forgets about all the kitten Sasuke has done. I personally still think that Karin has a plan. Because if she doesn't, all I can say is: She's CERTAINLY a total dumb kitten. I don't care how different she is from Sakura or Ino, forgiving the guy who tried to kill you just like that (even if he apologized and even if she's supposed to sound a little pissed) is just not healthy. What does it say about her if she's totally mad at him and still gropes him while swooning?

She is not a human detector. She can detect chakra type and amount, not emotions like Naruto can. Go re-read, people. Sensors are not telepathic.

Sasuke's sudden willingness to apologize, team up with the kage, forget his psychopathic nature, and Orochimaru's weird-ass support is either a total ass-pull or a brilliant plan in this chapter. I will reserve judgement there.

Edited by The Tax-Man, 16 April 2013 - 01:34 AM.

[Kanae]

She is not a human detector. She can detect chakra type and amount, not emotions like Naruto can. Go re-read, people. Sensors are not telepathic.

Karin's more talented than your average sensor

Edited by Kanae, 15 April 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Karin's more talented than your average sensor

*Gasp*

You show up?! This must be a rare occasion.

[The Tax-Man]

Karin's more talented than your average sensor

Lying =/= true intentions. I don't need to tell you the failures of a polygraph, which uses essentially the same principle as what Karin uses. She said "It shows up on chakra signature". I'm getting technical on a fictional power here, but it's how it goes: lying, especially from Sasuke's signature, is not easy to figure out. She herself said his chakra was dark and all that wholesome stuff. How exactly, from that, does she tell if he's being genuine? Perhaps his chakra becomes less malevolent when he's being apologetic? Like I said, telling if he's lying isn't all that simple. I am prepared to believe that she can sense chakra. Hence, "chakra amount and type". When she's saying that in the panel, she's referring to the change in chakra type. It's as simple as that. Sorry if I'm rambling, but I cringe every time someone mentions that sensors can tell when you're lying. They can't. Neither can Naruto, really. He can just sense negative emotions; lying happens to be one of them.

But still, it doesn't change the fact that no matter how 'compatible' they may be or whatever the tirade of the day is, forgiving Sasuke just like that and not wanting to disembowel him reflects badly upon Karin. And apologising in the first place destroys any semblance of coherence in Sasuke's character. I'll make a long, ranting post about this someday. Too tired right now.

EDIT
And just FYI, I totally agree that Karin is a strong character - much stronger than most other females in the manga. But that does not change the disaster it creates when she goes crazy over a guy. Yes, she is exactly like Hinata or part 1 Sakura in that aspect. Maybe even worse. I'd like to think that Hinata would ditch Naruto if he did all that Sasuke has done. Apparently that isn't true for Karin. We can't just ignore this crap because we have our shipper goggles on and d'aww every time we see her speak to the object of her apparent affections. Again, Kishimoto better have a REALLY good explanation for this because he has created a gaping potential thematic hole here.

Edited by The Tax-Man, 16 April 2013 - 12:13 AM.

[Baguette]

And just FYI, I totally agree that Karin is a strong character - much stronger than most other females in the manga. But that does not change the disaster it creates when she goes crazy over a guy. Yes, she is exactly like Hinata or part 1 Sakura in that aspect. Maybe even worse. I'd like to think that Hinata would ditch Naruto if he did all that Sasuke has done. Apparently that isn't true for Karin. We can't just ignore this crap because we have our shipper goggles on and d'aww every time we see her speak to the object of her apparent affections. Again, Kishimoto better have a REALLY good explanation for this because he has created a gaping potential thematic hole here.

Bolded: Um, I don't mean to bash, but...would you like to explain this?

[The Tax-Man]

Bolded: Um, I don't mean to bash, but...would you like to explain this?

As in: She doesn't just go along with things. My point was that most females in this story are sidelined. She is obviously one of the major ones. I did not mean like 'power' power. I meant plot power and strength of character. Though I'm doubting her character strength right now.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

You slightly misunderstood me. I wasn't trying to come off too patronizing, I'm just genuinely upset and confused I'm seeing all of these SasuKarin/NaruSaku fans coming out of the woodwork.

If you genuinely like it, then that's fine. I come nowhere close to that preference in the least. I almost did or at least was considering it since I believed Karin would have more of backbone with Sasuke and would not forgive him that easily. So imagine my total shock and anger when I see Karin clinging to him in 627 with less respect for herself than Sakura with Sasuke. That totally pissed me off, Sasuke's comical expression aside (which I did manage to laugh at, I admit ). Whether I would become a SK shipper or not was based on their reunion and to be fair, it was not what I was expecting. Her self-respect for herself is seemingly gone and her character is pretty much almost destroyed in that one chapter if she truly meant that. So SasuKarin? I now hate it just as much as I hate NaruHina. Unless Karin is planning something, maybe me opinion will change. Right now I detest it as a ship, it's almost no better than SasuSaku.

Here's something that was bothering me about this. If you ship SasuKarin and yet hate SasuSaku under the grounds of it being an 'abusive relationship' and 'bad heroine light', then you're being very hypocritical. And that's not sitting well with me.

I'm usually very proud to see that most NaruSaku fans do not side-ship SasuKarin. I was relieved over this since it gives us more of a clear distinction from the NaruHina fans who ship SasuSaku. And then I see this after 627. It upsets me but not in a mad way. It just makes me wonder if we're really no better than the NH/SS fans. The majority of them ship each other not because they're invested but because they want the threat out of the way. For SasuSaku, Naruto. For NaruHina, Sakura. For NaruSaku ... Sasuke. Then I see huge amounts of SK/NS fans. It's worrying me. It's almost like after all of these little pairing speed bumps in NaruSaku with NaruHina, we're desperate to the point we'll start side-shipping SasuKarin.

I hope this isn't the case for our fanbase. Point-blank, we don't need to side-ship. Remember that? NaruSaku has a fine, solid basis on it's own without it. I know not all of here are like this and I'm not referring to anyone in particular, I'm just wondering something I probably shouldn't.

I see SK as possible, let me clarify. I get some of your points of view about it being endgame. It's just not likely yet. I just don't believe it will happen nor do I at this point even slightly tolerate the idea.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 16 April 2013 - 01:47 AM.

[FoolishYoungling]

@RomanceGirl: I agree. I just wish that Kishimoto would explain why he made his characters so OOC in this chapter.

[Nate River]

I'll try to break it down:

1) Sasuke said sumanakatta. You only say that when you genuinely want to express your regret for the wrong doings you made. And this is Sasuke we're talking about, do you really expect him to grovel in the dirt and cry to the heavens about how he's a horrible person? You seriously think that goes with Sasuke's character?

2) Karin is a human lie detector so she can easily tell if someone is lying. Karin was overwhelmed by Sasuke's honesty and genuine regret because, in all truth, neither she or most of the fandom were ever expecting Sasuke to actually own up to what he did and truly feel bad for his actions.

Holy Crap. You're treating this like he stole her favorite toy. If a good ole' I'm sorry was all it took then I'd be an apology specialist and not a prosecutor. I suppose if that dood I sent to the clink says he "I'm sorry" for screwing a a little girl we'd all be squared away. In the area I live in we have a huge problem with drunk drivers getting on the wrong side of the freeway and killing people. Sorry, for being kittenfaced! Oh okay then, we'll drop the intox manslaughter. Life is not like that. I've seen family members of intox manslaughter offer forgiveness, but it doesn't mean they want him out of jail. I understand that this is a story and not real life, but COME ON, Kishimoto there are limits.

I agree with Romance, I don't think I want to hear the he tried to kill her reason as a basis for why SS can't happen it the fandom is okay with this. It's hypocritical.

When she was at her most vulnerable, he stabbed her and left her to die. When he refused to finish her off it wasn't an act of mercy it was an act of indifference. He threw her to the side like trash and THIS is how she reacts? Sorry, Karin. At least when Naruto forgave Nagato it was for a higher purpose: to end the cycle of hate. I still have all sorts of problems with that, but it wasn't because Nagato showed remorse.

What's the purpose here? She's not doing it for anything other than she likes him. Forget SK, It feels like this was done to get over the painfully obvious speed-bump that interfered with Team Not Seven reforming. For all the words spent talk about what a strong character she is, this screams tertiary character. I had long come to terms that she would forgive him because I knew it to be inevitable, but I figured he at least DO something that would mean he would at least be halfway worthy of it. He shows honesty for the first time in his life for what even in the Naruto universe would probably be considered a cold-blooded attempted murder, but I guess that satisfactory.

As for formulating a plan? To do what? Betray him? For what ends? Just revenge...didn't the paragon of that vice just move on from it only for a side character to take it up now? It's a bit baffling if you ask me.

If fact, if she is such a strong character then this better be a ruse because the author just bypassed a great chance to develop her character and relationship wish Sasuke. Have him earn it or something!

You must be joking. Like I said to KnS. I cannot deny what I see, but I can call it the crap that it is. If this were meant to show some like she described it be one thing, but the whole thing starts with a comedic boot to the head. It's really hard to take the what follows as something serious or memorable.

Again, her forgiveness is not why I have a problem with this. It's the lazy-ass execution.

I'm not sure which is more appalling: the writing or the minimization that's going on.

3) When Karin says it can't be helped as she clings to Sasuke she used a wording that expresses anger. This was explained in more detail with Tsubaki's post. When you think about this way it's almost like Karin said it in an almost threatening way, which is the reason Sasuke as that epic freaking out face for the first time ever.

Who drew the heart? If it was Kishimoto then I can't see this even if I down 20 beers and squint real hard. If it was the editors, I still can't see it, but I might be able to pretend to if I'm drunk enough.

4) Notice that in the next panels Sasuke lets Karin keep clinging to him. If it's out of fear or as a call back to the times he let her do so previously for reasons unknown, well, that's up to you.

In a sense I suppose. Although, I don't think we'd use "fear" the same way.

All of Karins fnagilr moments are always done in private or mentally. The exception is the moment with the photo where we were shown conclusively that it was an Act she wa sputting on to lure the guards into thinking she was crazy --hint it worked.

I'm at a loss to understand why this is significant. We the audience see it, so we know it happens. There is nothing to suggest Kishimoto is trying to make a distinction. Sasuke hasn't spent much time in public in circumstances that don't involve flinging his sword about anyway.

And I again find myself having to Shoot down the Karin is worse than Hinata, Karin is a fangirl BS, She is not a fan girl in any stretch of the imagination as compared to Sakura pre time skip or Ino pre timeskip who we know to be Sasuke Fangirls, nor is she some wilting wallflower like Hinata.

As for Hinata, I suppose on what is meant by "worse." If it's the clingy behavior, then yes, Hinata is worse because at least there is little doubt Karin is capable of standing on her own without Sasuke. The same is not obvious of Hinata. Saying she is not in the same ballpark as Part 1 Ino and Sakura doesn't say much. It's better as she doesn't swallow EVERYTHING he says as gospel, but Sakura didn't do that very much either in fact I thought that was phasing out as soon as chapter 3. Team Not Seven is basically Sasuke's entourage at this point, and I don't have hope that they'll ever get beyond that. So, I guess she's no different than them at least.

All of Karins fnagilr moments are always done in private or mentally. The exception is the moment with the photo where we were shown conclusively that it was an Act she wa sputting on to lure the guards into thinking she was crazy --hint it worked.

Fooling that level of total incompetence doesn't say much. Speaking of which, have they been fired yet? In addition, that was transitioned too almost immediately in the same chapter. In this one, we have already moved the Hokage's prepping for battle. If she were an important character who drove the plot (like Orochimaru) then I might think this a ruse, but she's not and I trying to imagine how what she did makes any sense in any super secret revenge plan. No one saw her until after she hit Suigetsu, why not just smack the actual offender? Or why not spill the beans in front of Konoha in exchange for being let out instead of having to fool a pair of fence posts...er...I mean highly trained nin..aw screw it...they might as well been lawn gnomes. Isn't there a trope for this? Or why not join the other side?

I think Kishimoto might have done better had he looked into actual prison breaks. Inmates can be very resourceful, but prison guards would not let them into their cell with property they were arrested with. Even if they were crazy. Actually, especially if they were crazy.

[catsi563]

For me I dont Ship SS because as far as Im concerned it doesnt exist and has never existed save in the abstract as a plot device.

I have never side shipped SK because of NS. Each of those pairings to me stands on its own with its own seperate development and its own merits neither of which connect or coincide with the other save by limited association of those involved.

[Nate River]

For me I dont Ship SS because as far as Im concerned it doesnt exist and has never existed save in the abstract as a plot device.

I have never side shipped SK because of NS. Each of those pairings to me stands on its own with its own seperate development and its own merits neither of which connect or coincide with the other save by limited association of those involved.

I don't think you do. I have no doubt you believe it independent of SS and you're right it is. If it happens it won't be as a consequence of NS or a way to avoid Sasuke ending up alone. I agree with your opinion on it being a likely pairing. It is and this helps it.

I don't confuse my low opinion of it with the odds of that occurring. Two totally separate things.

[The Tax-Man]

For me I dont Ship SS because as far as Im concerned it doesnt exist and has never existed save in the abstract as a plot device.

I have never side shipped SK because of NS. Each of those pairings to me stands on its own with its own seperate development and its own merits neither of which connect or coincide with the other save by limited association of those involved.

You don't need to defend yourself. We're attacking the ship, not the shippers. Hell, I'm not even attacking it - just the execution.

[Beastbomb]

I personally hate this Karin reaction in the chapter. You can't just claim that this relationsip is abusive, it's homocidal. The message that Kishsi is sending his readers here is not very good at all. A simple apoligy is not enough and that is why i'm hoping a twist happens between these two because this kitten does not fly with me. But, since i truly wish someone should have or would kill Sasuke, i looked over this part of the chapter because I really hate Sasuke's character. I know the difference between reality and a book, so I chose to ignore it, but it does bring up the question about how the younger audiences are going to interprete this and the possiblity of them repeating these actions whether it be an abusive relationship or something much worse.

Edited by Beastbomb, 16 April 2013 - 02:53 AM.

[tonga1]

question

we have new chapter this week?