3406 replies to this topic

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Wow ... I feel a lot more calmer now. And I'm very happy to reading all of these posts that are extremely logical and rational about how NaruSaku is not doomed.

Prepare for some LAP from me:

I just can't picture Naruto with Hinata for a life of me. Even when I was in severe rage mode the other day, I still couldn't picture it. I mean, this is Naruto were talking about here. If he didn't love Sakura and gave up on her, how is this in character? He's loved her the entire series so far and his feelings changing this easily not only makes him seem fickle, but it proves the parallels are crap. And Naruto's feelings were not as deep as they came off as. Which, as we all know, is not true. If NaruHina happened, it'd be terrible, terrible writing. If NH really is the endgame, why didn't Kishi develop it better??? Not to be rude but NH would be an asspull pairing next to all the development NS has had in the past 600+ chapters. It really makes no sense at all. Never did, never will. Plus, can you imagine NH'S kids?? Those would be some ugly sons of a kittenes As one of my close NS friends have said to me: "I cannot bring myself to like Naruto with anyone other than Sakura, especially Hinata. It breaks the consistency of Naruto's character throughout the entire manga. Exactly why I dislike it."

Now that I'm more level-headed, I can safely say that our ship has not sunk. However, ALL of us should admit NH's chances have increased dramatically and is our biggest problem right now. As much as I hate to admit it, Naruto's feelings for Hinata remain intentionally ambigious. We can't say for sure that's it's one-sided anymore. But we also can't say he feels something more for her. I hate this limbo but pairing suspense, y'know. Anything can happen now. I firmly NaruSaku is still more likely than NaruHina. It still has more evidence to it than NaruHina. But the problem is that now NH actually does have a chance now. Naruto may or may not have moved on from Sakura. However, we need to be reminded of something: Naruto still cares a great deal for Sasuke, more than ever even. Sakura's confession may have changed his feelings but IMO, you can't just get over love like that that easily. So I fail to see how this chapter confirms NaruHina and stomps his feelings for Sakura when Naruto himself has remained constant throughout the story. I just can't buy that without some proper resolution. As other posters have said, it is odd that NH is being brought up so prominently now. This could easily mean that this means NH is getting resolved along with Hinata herself while in the final arc, SS and NS (The more important pairings in the romance subplot) are at the forefront. Getting lose ends, deciding the canon pairing. At least that's the way I see it. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. Possibly Kishimoto is for some stupid reason building up NH to be canon, while NS's development and Sakura's changing feelings go to waste. I'm not Kishi.

Now I wish to put my thoughts on something that fascinates me. Sakura's single panel, while watching the Hinata/Naruto interaction. I feel this has some amount of weight in it. And this not my NS bias speaking completely (I hope ). This is a serious moment. No one should expect Sakura to look happy or entirely neutral. Someone just died for god's sake. But her expression is different than before. When she was realizing Neji was dead, she looked sad and pained. Her expression here is different. It's completely shocked, possibly uncomfortable/disturbed. That was when Hinata was giving her speech and touching Naruto's face. Look, I'll be the first to admit I may be grasping at straws on this. Wouldn't be the first time, no doubt. And I can't for sure say what Sakura was thinking (Damn Kishi and his ambiguity. ) But here's what I think. I believe Sakura was feeling uncomfortable watching Hinata be so gentle with Naruto. She knows Hinata loves him. But the problem is, she doesn't understand why it bothers her. She's confused about whether or not she loves Naruto so of course she'd be even more confused by her reaction to this. I don't honestly think Sakura was feeling jealousy in that scene. Not only is the situation a bad time for that and makes her come off as petty, she doesn't seem the type to be jealous of Hinata. Uncomfortable and worried, yes.

So my future predictions for later chapters about Sakura's feelings about this is NOT her feeling like she has to one-up Hinata and tear her away from him before she actually loses him to her (One can dream. I would pay money to see Sakura shove Hinata away from Naruto out of jealous spite because he's "hers" ) I actually believe the opposite. She wouldn't do anything about it besides being a bit upset and mildly passive-agressive over it. Why I believe that is simple. 1). Sakura has no competitive streak in her with Hinata. Not like how it is with Ino. She's way too nice for Sakura to be angry with her. 2). The more prominent reason. When she found out Naruto loved her, she specifically said "If he's stupid enough to love someone like me ...". Sakura doesn't feel like she deserves Naruto's love, paralleling to how he doesn't feel he deserves her. Pushing Hinata away from Naruto is the last thing she'd do. Most likely, she thinks something alone the lines of this: " Hinata's always been there. She really loves Naruto ... she's never hurt him like I did. I shouldn't care. After all, Hinata deserves him a lot more than me." I don't actively see her trying to openly say Naruto should be with Hinata but I don't see her showing how much it bothers her either. Naruto might figure it out and this will lead to a NS confrontation. I need more proof for my theory though. If Sakura's reaction to NaruHina shows up in the following chapters then I'd feel like I'm on the right track.

Point here is, NaruSaku is still very much alive. But I realized something. The reason why I'm so angry about 615 was not because of the NaruHina moment (Though that did definitely worry me). It's more the blatant, overboard, "Hinata is so awesome! Better than everyone, even the hero!" fanservice. God, it's so damn annoying that Kishi forces her to outshine everyone. I love Hinata development, she desperately needs it. But not something this huge to the point that she makes everyone else look bad, especially Naruto and Sakura (who should've IMO opinion been the one doing the awesome pep talk. She is the heroine, right? Or is that no longer valid? ).It's was just shoved right in our faces so forcibly, you can't even ignore it even if you tried. For someone who doesn't care at all about Hinata and constantly hopes for my 2nd favorite character to get the attention she deserves as heroine (Sakura), this annoyed the living kitten out of me. I care about Sakura, not Hinata! Unless Kishi gives Sakura some attention soon, I'm not forgiving Kishi for this.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 28 December 2012 - 10:45 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Wow ... I feel a lot more calmer now. And I'm very happy to reading all of these posts that are extremely logical and rational about how NaruSaku is not doomed.

Prepare for some LAP from me:

I just can't picture Naruto with Hinata for a life of me. Even when I was in severe rage mode the other day, I still couldn't picture it. I mean, this is Naruto were talking about here. If he didn't love Sakura and gave up on her, how is this in character? He's loved her the entire series so far and his feelings changing this easily not only makes him seem fickle, but it proves the parallels are crap. And Naruto's feelings were not as deep as they came off as. Which, as we all know, is not true. If NaruHina happened, it'd be terrible, terrible writing. If NH really is the endgame, why didn't Kishi develop it better??? Not to be rude but NH would be an asspull pairing next to all the development NS has had in the past 600+ chapters. It really makes no sense at all. Never did, never will. Plus, can you imagine NH'S kids?? Those would be some ugly sons of a kittenes As one of my close NS friends have said to me: "I cannot bring myself to like Naruto with anyone other than Sakura, especially Hinata. It breaks the consistency of Naruto's character throughout the entire manga. Exactly why I dislike it."

Now that I'm more level-headed, I can safely say that our ship has not sunk. However, ALL of us should admit NH's chances have increased dramatically and is our biggest problem right now. As much as I hate to admit it, Naruto's feelings for Hinata remain intentionally ambigious. We can't say for sure that's it's one-sided anymore. But we also can't say he feels something more for her. I hate this limbo but pairing suspense, y'know. Anything can happen now. I firmly NaruSaku is still more likely than NaruHina. It still has more evidence to it than NaruHina. But the problem is that now NH actually does have a chance now. Naruto may or may not have moved on from Sakura. However, we need to be reminded of something: Naruto still cares a great deal for Sasuke, more than ever even. Sakura's confession may have changed his feelings but IMO, you can't just get over love like that that easily. So I fail to see how this chapter confirms NaruHina and stomps his feelings for Sakura when Naruto himself has remained constant throughout the story. I just can't buy that without some proper resolution. As other posters have said, it is odd that NH is being brought up so prominently now. This could easily mean that this means NH is getting resolved along with Hinata herself while in the final arc, SS and NS (The more important pairings in the romance subplot) are at the forefront. Getting lose ends, deciding the canon pairing. At least that's the way I see it. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. Possibly Kishimoto is for some stupid reason building up NH to be canon, while NS's development and Sakura's changing feelings go to waste. I'm not Kishi.

Well he didnt give any hint that he loves her but if a NS scene happen this whole scene would be meaningless in terms of romance, it will just prove to the people who has doubts that it was just for hinata's development.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Well he didnt give any hint that he loves her but if a NS scene happen this whole scene would be meaningless in terms of romance, it will just prove to the people who has doubts that it was just for hinata's development.

I pretty much agree with this. I'm not jumping ship or screaming NH is canon because I see no need to. It's not like it's entirely clear he has romantic feelings for her now. And the hand-holding thing was because he was passing his chakra. Plus, he thanked her for bringing her back. It's possibly a hint he likes her but we need more. The coming chapters will give that to us.

I actually sort of expect this. That all this was was Hinata development, not NaruHina endgame. If a NS moment happens soon, then we'll have our answer. Kishi was just being a troll. But of course I'm preventing myself from fully believing it because anything can happen now. We don't have enough proof to say NH isn't a threat or that he's moved on from Sakura. With time, we will.

[六道仙人]

Next chapter will have even colours pages... Only thinking it on, I'm getting more angry....

Edited by 六道仙人, 28 December 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[Chucky-kun]

Next chapter will have even colours pages... Only thinking it on, I'm getting more angry....

huh?

[candycane-chan]

huh?

the first colored page will probably be naruto and hinata holding hands.

[Chucky-kun]

the first colored page will probably be naruto and hinata holding hands.

That isn't cringeworthy. People need to realize that kishi is finishing up hinata s development and should stop wasting their breath by complaining.

[六道仙人]

the first colored page will probably be naruto and hinata holding hands.

exactly and maybe even the cover page will have some NH hints.... that's just will make me so angry... I see definetely a new kittenistorm from NH fandom.

Edited by 六道仙人, 28 December 2012 - 12:13 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

I don't know if I want to read the next chapter or not. I might just read the comments first. I don't know I am gonna have to see how I feel after the two-three weeks.

[Chucky-kun]

I don't know if I want to read the next chapter or not. I might just read the comments first. I don't know I am gonna have to see how I feel after the two-three weeks.

If I don't feel absolutely amazed by the ending of this arc, I'm gunna be disappointed. Kishi has dug himself a hole.

[Nefertieh]

I don't think speculating that this chapter was the work of an editor. The logic would make sense the other way too: Kishimoto has always wanted Hinata to be more prominent, the editor wanted Sakura there instead because he didn't want romance to overpower the bromance.

We should brace ourselves, Hinata will probably have a bigger role in the rest of this arc and probably well into the rest as well.

[六道仙人]

you know what, the more I see this page the more i feel that sakura's role is reserved for the final battle againist Sasuke...



You can see clearly that Hinata is has nothing to do with that question, only Sakura. That's I hope....

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

I don't think speculating that this chapter was the work of an editor. The logic would make sense the other way too: Kishimoto has always wanted Hinata to be more prominent, the editor wanted Sakura there instead because he didn't want romance to overpower the bromance.

We should brace ourselves, Hinata will probably have a bigger role in the rest of this arc and probably well into the rest as well.

You have no idea how unbearable that is to me. After something like this chapter, I don't think I can stomach more of Hinata or NaruHina much longer. I. DON'T. CARE. ABOUT. HER. I want some more Sakura focus, I could care less about her. Seriously ... it's only a been a few chapters and I'm already nearly at my limit.

[T XD]

Nefertieh is right. Probably we'll see more Hinata moments in the next few chapters along her being with Naruto and might in other arcs as well. But not in the way that ch.615 presented her with a big spotlight for her character, which I repeat: This won't be a threat to NS nor to Sakura's heroine role cause these last two are yet to come in the future, and if its sooner or not is yet to be seen. It may be in this arc or in other.

Edited by T XD, 28 December 2012 - 12:38 PM.

[Namaenash]

So, I just came back from a vacation and got this unpleasant surprise and a whopping 37+ pages! God, please spare me. Sorry I just made it to read first few pages and jump straight to the last page.

I'm not overly surprised and totally see this coming with the foreshadowing and all. Kishi has hinted this, and we should expect it coming. We can't deny it's also an NH moment.

But, does it mean that NH is canon? Maybe yes, maybe no. My take on it? Let's wait and see, but I can't understand Kishi's writing style lately.
So, we have Naruto near a breaking point because Neji is dead and the one who pulled him out of the confusion is Hinata? Sorry, but Naruto and Neji was never that close (if the one who is dead is Kakashi, Bee, or Sakura --those are closer to Naruto) I can still understand. Even during Pein fight when Naruto learns Kakashi's death, he took it gracefully and charged the enemy elegantly. And out of all people, Hinata is the one who pulled him out? Sorry, not that I mind, but it really really look forced. The whole thing which leads to this point (Hinata holding Naruto's hand) is really look forced. We have Neji jumping out of nowhere and suddenly dead without any prior build up. Naruto near breaking point and Hinata pulled him. This isn't Naruto that we know isn't it? He went through the worst (Pein arc, how many people are supposed to be dead there?), yet he can elegantly defeat Pein.

anyway, few of my points that may indicate there is still hope for NaruSaku:
- Sakura is drawn in a panel during Hinata interaction with Naruto. If this chapter is meant to be the mark for NH canon, that one single panel shouldn't be there.
- The so called holding hand depicts a bit of Naruto's thoughts (thanking Hinata and Neji), but it's still focus on Hinata thought to hold Naruto's hand. If this chapter is meant to bring NH canon, it should be Naruto's thinking process all along and how he appreciate Hinata and looking forward to survive this war with her. In other words, refer to Gaara's fight where he vowed to fight for Sakura.
- Sakura is getting a serious competition from Hinata, if she wanted to be with Naruto. Here, we have a princess who loved Naruto since forever, had pulled him on the right time and got his attention. That, by itself has raised the bar for Sakura.
- Hinata is still thinking on romance when Naruto hold her hands. Now, that wasn't a good way to develop a character wouldn't it? Your cousin is dead beside you, your idol has finally appreciated you and hold your hand, and all you can think is his hand is comfortable to hold and make you feel safer? Young lady, I would expect something more from you. You should shout to avenge your cousin's death, or be remorseful and more vengeful. We are after all, in the middle of a war...

As an NS fan, I still think that Hinata is the one who will contribute to making NS canon. But, as of recent Kishi's writing style, all I can say is let's just wait and see. The next few chapters will indicate what Kishi is planning in romance department. If Kishi did choose to end NS soon, no doubt he'll loose a very huge chunk of Naruto fans (NejiHina is more popular than NH as a whole, now that it doesn't have a chance anymore, if NS is also not happening, then we'll probably see a manga cover for WSJ other than Naruto...

[James S Cassidy]

Nefertieh is right. Probably we'll see more Hinata moments in the next few chapters along her being with Naruto and might in other arcs as well. But not in the way that ch.615 presented her with a big spotlight for her character, which I repeat: This won't be a threat to NS nor to Sakura's heroine role cause these last two are yet to come in the future, and if its sooner or not is yet to be seen. It may be in this arc or in other.

I hope you're right, girl. I really do. I really hope everyone who supports this is right as well. I am indifferent about the situation because of the utter bastardizing of the characters. It's not even funny anymore how many characters just get thrown under the bus. We thought it was just Sakura, but now it seems like Shikamaru who was said to be Naruto's right hand man is getting shafted as well. Neji just got shafted here and his death was wasted.

For now I am going to stay off NS for a while. Clear my head.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 December 2012 - 01:13 PM.

[T XD]

I hope you're right, man. I really do. I really hope everyone who supports this is right as well. I am indifferent about the situation because of the utter bastardizing of the characters. It's not even funny anymore how many characters just get thrown under the bus. We thought it was just Sakura, but now it seems like Shikamaru who was said to be Naruto's right hand man is getting shafted as well. Neji just got shafted here and his death was wasted.

For now I am going to stay off NS for a while. Clear my head.

Ummm..... woman*

Edited by T XD, 28 December 2012 - 01:55 PM.

[fireandice]

Actually guys, there's something that occurred to me, which makes me think Naruto won't move on from Sakura so easily as some of you are worried about because of this chapter.

These pages showing Sai's flashback; you notice Naruto gets this really serious expression on his face after his initial comical freakout when Sai outright says he likes Sakura. Naruto says he can't tell Sakura that he likes/loves her, because he feels he doesn't deserve it for failing in his 'Promise of the Lifetime' to bring Sasuke back.

Manga pages --Click here to view--

What I found interesting was that I thought "Hey, hasn't Naruto made it pretty obvious he likes Sakura already?" I mean he is always asking her on dates, and not bothering to hide his blush when Sakura does stuff like feeding him (when he injured his hand.) So why was Naruto at first acting as though Sakura doesn't know how he feels? I'm sure he knows he's been pretty obvious in how he's flirted with her through all those aforementioned examples.

Yet it's clear Naruto is saying he hasn't. So, it seems to me what Naruto is saying is that he hasn't told Sakura that his feelings for her are a lot more serious. Aka, not just the childish, shallow crush or playful flirting, as Sakura might assume from his previous actions.

There was just a certain seriousness about the expression on his face, which IMO makes it pretty clear Naruto's feelings for Sakura are PRETTY deep. I know the timing of that flashback was before Hinata's confession in the Pain arc, but why would Kishi even show this if he wanted to make Naruto move on from Sakura?

I honestly don't think Kishi would switch to NaruHina in such an off-panel manner. He would have shown Naruto's thought processes of letting of Sakura and starting to feel things for Hinata. In fact, the aftermath of the Pain arc was perfect for that! Yet he draws Sakura coming back to hug Naruto, when to be honest, that moment was NOT necessary for plot progression, unlike Hinata's confession (which was to get the Kyuubi to go berserk.)

As to editorial interference...I doubt they would fight Kishi over this so much, esp when it's a Shonen, not a Shojo manga, where the pairing has more significance to affecting popularity. And IMO for a famous and successful mangaka like Kishi, I would think the editors would give him more freedom; as he is able to command the respect and authority to demand that, as he's not a new, untested mangaka. I'm sure Kishi is able to argue he does know better- he has been writing a popular series for more than ten years!

Cheer up guys, our ship is not going down NH has increased potential now, but if we look at the bigger picture it's pretty hopeful.

Of course, I might be wrong, but it's my take on it.

Edited by fireandice, 28 December 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[candycane-chan]

I don't know if I want to read the next chapter or not. I might just read the comments first. I don't know I am gonna have to see how I feel after the two-three weeks.

I don't think I'll read it either. But the problem is that some fans tend to exaggerate certain facts and I think 2-3 weeks of waiting will make you curious to see what's gonna happen, right?

Nefertieh is right. Probably we'll see more Hinata moments in the next few chapters along her being with Naruto and might in other arcs as well. But not in the way that ch.615 presented her with a big spotlight for her character, which I repeat: This won't be a threat to NS nor to Sakura's heroine role cause these last two are yet to come in the future, and if its sooner or not is yet to be seen. It may be in this arc or in other.

I think that the upcoming chapter will be the last for the hinata development- thatis, if kishi's purpose wasn't to prepare for NH.

Ummm..... *woman*

I.......didn't know that.

[4000TMNT]

She may have the appeal but it doesn't change the fact that she will suddenly get "bumped" up near characters such as Iruka, who hasn't done anything at all, and others like Gaara, Itachi and Minato just because of her one "defining" moment here?! She's never near that category and she wouldn't be now in the Japanese eyes. Only one character recently should get the marketing value and that is Rock Lee because of his spin-offs for the smaller audiences.
.
It's a Hinata moment, NOT a NaruHina, which many of you need to understand. Also, her confession didn't do jack squat, it only gave a poll increase, no marketing value. Compare that to Sakura's confession, which I recently found out: that got praise from manga reviewers because it left questioning, discussion and not to mention drama for the story and the audiences.

And just because of that, this chapter, I forgot to mention, is only words! No action, and I mean fights for that term. Do I recall that a certain character needs to boost up by performing both at the same time?

Where did you hear that.