898 replies to this topic

[sushi.]

I've already said this. I love Sakura, and I will always defend her. But I will not defend Kishi for what is doing with her.

Agree with everything you said. And you know, not defending what Kishi is doing to her is also a kind of defense. I am defending her against Kishimoto, because he is not doing her justice. She deserves so much better, and I won't cut him any slack just to be 'positive'.

[Nate River]

Agree with everything you said. And you know, not defending what Kishi is doing to her is also a kind of defense. I am defending her against Kishimoto, because he is not doing her justice. She deserves so much better, and I won't cut him any slack just to be 'positive'.

I agree. I dislike that the fandom feels compelled to give her special protection it fails to give others. People criticize Kishimoto's handling of Naruto all the time without too much fanfare. Criticizing his handling of Sasuke is all but a way of life and people don't lose it over that. The same is true when the characters are criticized directly for doing something stupid or wrong.

But say something bad about Sakura, regardless of its legitimacy, or even the far more mild, Kishimoto's treatment of her then woe be unto you. You get fed to wolves.

The standard ought to be the same. If the author screws up handling them or the characters screws up they ought to be called on it. Sakura shouldn't be exempted from this and those who point it out shouldn't be treat as if uttering heresy.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

@Nate River:

 

The problem with that though is that everyone has their own interpretation. Just because they're 'okay' with Sakura's treatment from Kishi and don't raise any complaints doesn't make them wrong. People like you and me who'd rather have Sakura fight more and not always be sidelined/registered to 'damsel in distress' can complain, but at the same time it's just our opinion. Some people have higher standards for characters than others.

 

I think Kishimoto did excellent with Sakura's emotional development and it feels comforting she's not as useless in battle as she used to be way back in Part 1. I'm thankful for that. Her medical ninjutsu is impressive, but the situations Kishimoto puts Sakura in by always being saved or having minor moments sort of sullies that. This is a fighting manga. It's not that much of a surprise that fans criticize her as "useless" when this manga is more ruled by fighting than healing or support.

 

But of course, there are different kinds of strengths in certain people than others. Sakura is a wonderful healer and she should always be praised for that. Her personality has grown tremendously throughout the manga. That's the part of her that should always be complimented IMO. But Kishimoto still screwed up with her and that's because of exactly what I said above.

 

I can think of another series with character's main role being a healer that hardly ever fights. However, in that case, they made the characters trained well in both healing and fighting. They've not often seen fighting, but when they do, they can hold their own and take care of themselves most of the time instead of being put in so many damsel in distress situations. This is what Kishi should've done with Sakura. If you don't want her to fight a lot and be reduced to a healer, than fine. But don't make nearly every battle situation she's put in look bad.

 

If he doesn't like that people misunderstand Sakura on her abilities and relevance, then he should've done better with her on that front. He has no one to blame for that but himself.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 01 July 2014 - 03:14 AM.

[Nate River]

@Nate River:
 
The problem with that though is that everyone has their own interpretation. Just because they're 'okay' with Sakura's treatment from Kishi and don't raise any complaints doesn't make them wrong. People like you and me who'd I'd rather have Sakura fight more and not always be sidelined/registered to 'damsel in distress' can complain, but at the same time it's just our opinion. Some people have higher standards for characters than others.
 
I think Kishimoto did excellent with Sakura's emotional development and it feels comforting she's not as useless in battle as she used to be way back in Part 1. I'm thankful for that. Her medical ninjutsu is impressive, but the situations Kishimoto puts Sakura in by always being saved or having minor moments sort of sullies that. This is a fighting manga. It's not that much of a surprise that fans criticize her as "useless" when this manga is more ruled by fighting than healing or support.
 
But of course, there are different kinds of strengths in certain people than others. Sakura is a wonderful healer and she should always be praised for that. Her personality has grown tremendously throughout the manga. That's the part of her that should always be complimented IMO. But Kishimoto still screwed up with her and that's because of exactly what I said above.
 
I can think of another series with character's main role being a healer that hardly ever fights. However, in that case, they made the characters trained well in both healing and fighting. They've not often seen fighting, but when they do, they can hold their own and take care of themselves most of the time instead of being put in so many damsel in distress situations. This is what Kishi should've done with Sakura. If you don't want her to fight a lot and be reduced to a healer, than fine. But don't make nearly every battle situation she's put in look bad.
 
If he doesn't like that people misunderstand Sakura on her abilities and relevance, then he should've done better with her on that front. He has no one to blame for that but himself.

I agree, but dislike watching people, myself included, equated with bashers every time they don't toe the line. I'm not going to hold back just because its Sakura.

[Gojira]

Personally i'm ok with the job Kishi's been doing on Sakura just annoyed that her  romantic perception is kept in the dark and most of the time inconsistent 

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I agree. I dislike that the fandom feels compelled to give her special protection it fails to give others. People criticize Kishimoto's handling of Naruto all the time without too much fanfare. Criticizing his handling of Sasuke is all but a way of life and people don't lose it over that. The same is true when the characters are criticized directly for doing something stupid or wrong.

But say something bad about Sakura, regardless of its legitimacy, or even the far more mild, Kishimoto's treatment of her then woe be unto you. You get fed to wolves.

The standard ought to be the same. If the author screws up handling them or the characters screws up they ought to be called on it. Sakura shouldn't be exempted from this and those who point it out shouldn't be treat as if uttering heresy.

I think the Issue about people getting upset with other's criticizing Sakura is this; Doesn't she get enough of it from other people? No matter what she does or doesn't do its always blown out of proportion by the people who do not like her, and lets face it THOSE people out number and out voice the people who do like her character. 

So when people who like her character start talking like the people who DON'T like her it becomes a sensitive, volatile subject. Its natural for people to want to prop up someone they like and feel is being treated unfairly. 

The fact is that Sakura gets treated like crap by most of the fandom and people try to make up for that by becoming defensive. 

 

[only Naruto]

 

Well it's not just Sakura. He's doing the same with his other characters too. He's doing the same with Naruto for example.

Sometimes Naruto seems to be a crack, and the time after he does something dumb. It's not the case everytime, but it's often the case.

I think Kishi just doesn't want his characters to be perfect because the manga is not done and they need to grow more 'til the end. IMO.

If characters had no flaws, then there would be nothing to evolve from.

 

Naruto had a seizure because of what Sakura has done, what Sai said, what Gaara said, and before everyone, what Tobi said. It was a lot too much for him, and saying it was because of his "boyfriend" Sasuke is exaggerated and caricatural IMO. It's true it was about Sasuke, but not alone. Naruto has been affected by Sakura's actions, by the truth coming from Tobi's mouth, by the fact that Gaara was against his opinion (because Naruto was not OK at all with what Gaara told him).

 

About Sakura, IMO, it's because he wants to make her evolve from Sasuke.

 

That time when she couldn't kill Sasuke... what you are saying makes me think you wanted her to kill him for real. That would have destroyed her character completely. Honestly. As an author, Kishi just couldn't do that. Naruto is saving her because Naruto is supposed to. All the story is about that. Naruto is supposed to save everything, and saving Sakura from Sasuke is a part of it.

 

IMO, that time with the two mini juubi, it was not that she couldn't have defeated them, she just didn't see them already. It was to build a team7 cooperation small moment, that's all. Nostalgia. The purpose at that time was not to downgrade Sakura. It was nostalgia and small team7 interaction. Again, what's wrong with being a medic ? I really don't understand. It's always presented like it's something downgrading. I'm happy she became a medic that good. I love when she fights too, but I think she was badass saving Naruto, even more badass than that time when she defeated Sasori with Chiyo.

 

I think you are disappointed because you prefer the fighting Sakura. And because of that, you think Kishimoto is doing bad with her character.
Where are the 80% failure ? 80% failure ? Really ? I don't see this. I see a normal girl that succeeded to almost attain the Hokage's level all by herself. Also, the manga is not ended yet. Sakura will evolve more obviously.

amazing analysis .

[only Naruto]

I think the Issue about people getting upset with other's criticizing Sakura is this; Doesn't she get enough of it from other people? No matter what she does or doesn't do its always blown out of proportion by the people who do not like her, and lets face it THOSE people out number and out voice the people who do like her character. 

So when people who like her character start talking like the people who DON'T like her it becomes a sensitive, volatile subject. Its natural for people to want to prop up someone they like and feel is being treated unfairly. 

The fact is that Sakura gets treated like crap by most of the fandom and people try to make up for that by becoming defensive. 

 

you know. the people are making me feel as naruto manga has ended .and as if last chapter was like kishi ended naruto development with the harem jutsu and sakura development with the she will never figth and she will never stop loving sasuke . i think its insult to kishi  . i think people should  wait till the end .cause if kishi made sakura to help with the fight .in the next chapters and thats what likely will happen .so what then he is a genius and they are happy .which means all what they are doing now is pointless and they dont have Paitence .which mean that they shoud stop reading the manga every week they should just read it every 2 months if they cant handle it. but anyway they are free to do what they want and we are ready to discuss it with them every time.  but they are wrong about being so annoyed , and if the manga ended with the things that they are annoyed with .let them make a big welcoming for me with them but till then am on kishi side .

Edited by only Naruto, 30 June 2014 - 06:24 AM.

[only Naruto]

@pepsi
The goal is to create harmony (peace/order) of two opposite force, not chaos(disorder). I think.

i told you once that you have something with these short effective lines  .and you were humble .and thats good  . you just said the goal that kishi needed to send it to us for the last 14 years in  14 words .

[only Naruto]

I agree, but dislike watching people, myself included, equated with bashers every time they don't toe the line. I'm not going to hold back just because its Sakura.

hey nate. dont you think that kishi is so slow with the 3 main charecters development .cause that is what gives him time to make the manga longer .i mean look at every other character they all developed faster than the 3 main characters .i mean he developed them but so slowly cause they have the most of time screen which means he must make it slowly if the manga is so long ..thats why am not so annoyed with recent chapters .. so what you think.

[soraandven]

I miss when Obito was the villain, he atleast had something to say. With Kaguya it's just sort of an odd mood swing after another.

well it was obvious that he would get redeemed

[MoonDrop04]

I don't know if anyone else has thought of this but the strangest idea popped into my head O_O lol!?!?

Has anyone ever wondered what would happen to the tailed beasts after the war?? Where would they go? Would they go back into new Jinchurriki's?? Is there any place that could hold them???

Well...........why not kaguya's different environment dimensions!?!? lol

There has been three places so far that kaguya has shown and two of them already is a perfect match for some of the bijuus!!!
Son goku - lava dimension
Shukaku - sand dimension
As for the ice dimension I guess either hotaru (5 tails) or choumei (7 tails)

I don't know if this a coincidence but it's an interesting concept if you think about it lol what do y'all think??

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Well it's not just Sakura. He's doing the same with his other characters too. He's doing the same with Naruto for example.
Sometimes Naruto seems to be a crack, and the time after he does something dumb. It's not the case everytime, but it's often the case.
I think Kishi just doesn't want his characters to be perfect because the manga is not done and they need to grow more 'til the end. IMO.
If characters had no flaws, then there would be nothing to evolve from.

No, he's not doing it with Naruto, he was always like this the dumb with a golden heart trend of mangas, what Kishimoto did with Naruto is the fact that on the begining of the manga up until Pain arc, he wasnt a genius, he did his best with hardwork to surpass geniuses, in the end he was a genius and got his powers handed in a plate like Sasuke completely destroying the message Kishimoto wanted to deliver on the begining.
His set-up was never meant to be a loser who would surpass geniuses with hardwork but Kishimoto did it anyway.
 

About Sakura, IMO, it's because he wants to make her evolve from Sasuke.
 
That time when she couldn't kill Sasuke... what you are saying makes me think you wanted her to kill him for real. That would have destroyed her character completely. Honestly. As an author, Kishi just couldn't do that. Naruto is saving her because Naruto is supposed to. All the story is about that. Naruto is supposed to save everything, and saving Sakura from Sasuke is a part of it.
 
IMO, that time with the two mini juubi, it was not that she couldn't have defeated them, she just didn't see them already. It was to build a team7 cooperation small moment, that's all. Nostalgia. The purpose at that time was not to downgrade Sakura. It was nostalgia and small team7 interaction.

The problem with her "evolve from Sasuke" is that there's no legitimate excuse to keep dragging it on, you pay attention she doesnt have excuses ot keep liking it, and the drama around Naruto and Sasuke is pretty poor when it comes from her view, they fighting and she worrying about the fact Sasuke doesnt care about her, which is pretty stupid because he will be redeemed and care about her later anyway.
So for what purpose?
 

Again, what's wrong with being a medic ? I really don't understand. It's always presented like it's something downgrading. I'm happy she became a medic that good. I love when she fights too, but I think she was badass saving Naruto, even more badass than that time when she defeated Sasori with Chiyo.

What's wrong with defining your heroine to be a support character and makes her want to caught up with two god-like fighters and then getting upset afterwards because they're 1000x more stronger than her.
It's retarded.

Sakura in terms of offensive capabilities was only usefull against fodders since after the Sasori arc.
 

I think you are disappointed because you prefer the fighting Sakura. And because of that, you think Kishimoto is doing bad with her character.
Where are the 80% failure ? 80% failure ? Really ? I don't see this. I see a normal girl that succeeded to almost attain the Hokage's level all by herself. Also, the manga is not ended yet. Sakura will evolve more obviously.

almost everyone who criticized it, is not because of fighting but the direction of her development, during the fight with Sasori, she not just fought but she was questioning about Shinobi and she was getting a glimpse of the whole hatred problem, Kishimoto discards it afterwards and make her feel useless because of the bridge arc where she could not hold Naruto on 4 tails form.
I heard this Sakura wil evolve more obviously since the Pain arc, and all i've received is her being nothing more than a pairing fodder it's quite sad actually.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 30 June 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[Otaru]

I don't know if anyone else has thought of this but the strangest idea popped into my head O_O lol!?!?

Has anyone ever wondered what would happen to the tailed beasts after the war?? Where would they go? Would they go back into new Jinchurriki's?? Is there any place that could hold them???

Well...........why not kaguya's different environment dimensions!?!? lol

There has been three places so far that kaguya has shown and two of them already is a perfect match for some of the bijuus!!!
Son goku - lava dimension
Shukaku - sand dimension
As for the ice dimension I guess either hotaru (5 tails) or choumei (7 tails)

I don't know if this a coincidence but it's an interesting concept if you think about it lol what do y'all think??

 
Ah ! You may be right ! I think Naruto wants to free them.
 

No, he's not doing it with Naruto, he was always like this the dumb with a golden heart trend of mangas, what Kishimoto did with Naruto is the fact that on the begining of the manga up until Pain arc, he wasnt a genius, he did his best with hardwork to surpass geniuses, in the end he was a genius and got his powers handed in a plate like Sasuke completely destroying the message Kishimoto wanted to deliver on the begining.
His set-up was never meant to be a loser who would surpass geniuses with hardwork but Kishimoto did it anyway.

No that's another debate. I'm not talking about that.
I know some people think that Kishimoto destroyed his theme about working hard to attain you goal.
I am against this idea, but it's not the subject right now.
What I wanted to say, is that Kishimoto writes Naruto to be great, and often, just after, he writes him to be dumb in the middle of the fight, like that time when he tried to uses senjutsu with Kyuubi mode. It worked just after, because Kyuubi helped, but it was a 'dumb' moment. There is also that time when Hinata was forced to slap Naruto to wake him up. Naruto is not perfect, he's still a little dumb, and also he has a weak point about his friends life/death. I think he will always be like that. It's how Kishomoto created his character.
Sakura is unsecure. She has always be, it was her big weakness when she was a little girl. So, as she's still learning and growing, to me it feels logical that she still has some times when she feels insecure. I think Kishimoto wants her to grow more from that. And I think that's why he made her insecure about what Sasuke said. I also still think that's it's a setup for her to understand something about Kaguya.
 

The problem with her "evolve from Sasuke" is that there's no legitimate excuse to keep dragging it on, you pay attention she doesnt have excuses ot keep liking it, and the drama around Naruto and Sasuke is pretty poor when it comes from her view, they fighting and she worrying about the fact Sasuke doesnt care about her, which is pretty stupid because he will be redeemed and care about her later anyway.
So for what purpose?

Kishimoto doesn't know what his readers have already understood.
I think that's why.
IMO he's just following his path.
Things have become obvious to us, about Sasuke, aboute Sakura, I think that's why some of us are annoyed by all the dragging. I can understand that. I am sometimes a little frustrated too.
Also, IMO, Kishimoto doesn't writing that Sakura still loves Sasuke anymore. I think on the contrary, like he made Kakashi said, it's now only a nakama bond.
That moment when Sakura worried about Sasuke was for us readers. I think Kishimoto wants us to ask ourselves this same question. The answer is obvious for most of us, but not for everyone IMO. Like I said before, I think Kishimoto is just following his path.

 

What's wrong with defining your heroine to be a support character and makes her want to caught up with two god-like fighters and then getting upset afterwards because they're 1000x more stronger than her.
It's retarded.

Sakura in terms of offensive capabilities was only usefull against fodders since after the Sasori arc.

almost everyone who criticized it, is not because of fighting but the direction of her development, during the fight with Sasori, she not just fought but she was questioning about Shinobi and she was getting a glimpse of the whole hatred problem, Kishimoto discards it afterwards and make her feel useless because of the bridge arc where she could not hold Naruto on 4 tails form.
I heard this Sakura wil evolve more obviously since the Pain arc, and all i've received is her being nothing more than a pairing fodder it's quite sad actually.

She felt useless at that time at the bridge because it's like her character.
At that time Kishimoto wanted to show her deep care for Naruto. How could he do that without writing Sakura the way he did ? All this was to induce Yamato's phrase. That time was pure NaruSaku development. Kishimoto wanted to do it for this purpose, not to downgrade Sakura. That's how you see it, because you're frustrated somehow. But it's not the real message.

I don't know... I can understand some of us are frustrated, but I'm sure Kishimoto will do it right til' the end.

Edited by Otaru, 30 June 2014 - 01:10 PM.

[Change]

No, he's not doing it with Naruto, he was always like this the dumb with a golden heart trend of mangas, what Kishimoto did with Naruto is the fact that on the begining of the manga up until Pain arc, he wasnt a genius, he did his best with hardwork to surpass geniuses, in the end he was a genius and got his powers handed in a plate like Sasuke completely destroying the message Kishimoto wanted to deliver on the begining.
His set-up was never meant to be a loser who would surpass geniuses with hardwork but Kishimoto did it anyway.

 

 

You just described an archetype, congratulations, every successful story uses archetypes.

 

The problem with her "evolve from Sasuke" is that there's no legitimate excuse to keep dragging it on, you pay attention she doesnt have excuses ot keep liking it, and the drama around Naruto and Sasuke is pretty poor when it comes from her view, they fighting and she worrying about the fact Sasuke doesnt care about her, which is pretty stupid because he will be redeemed and care about her later anyway.
So for what purpose?

I guess you forgot what Kakashi said about Sakura and her wanting to save Sasuke from darkness just like Naruto.Team 7 always had drama and if you haven't releaed it, kishimoto is going back to when he started. Team 7 will always care for Sasuke and wants to save him from darkness, it's been hit over the head a billions times. Sakura caring whether Sasuke said something for when she got hurt is more like seeing if there was still hope

What's wrong with defining your heroine to be a support character and makes her want to caught up with two god-like fighters and then getting upset afterwards because they're 1000x more stronger than her.
It's retarded.

Lol nobody is upset that they're stronger than her. 

 

Sakura in terms of offensive capabilities was only usefull against fodders since after the Sasori arc. 
almost everyone who criticized it, is not because of fighting but the direction of her development, during the fight with Sasori, she not just fought but she was questioning about Shinobi and she was getting a glimpse of the whole hatred problem, Kishimoto discards it afterwards and make her feel useless because of the bridge arc where she could not hold Naruto on 4 tails form.
I heard this Sakura wil evolve more obviously since the Pain arc, and all i've received is her being nothing more than a pairing fodder it's quite sad actually.

 

Let's see what she's done after the Sasori arc:

Figured out how Obito's technique works before anybody else

Was in a team with Shikamru and that other female figuring out Jiraiya's message

When Naruto went nine tails on Nagato she ordered Katsyu to tell everybody to get back

She figured out the Zetsu's plan

Was the only one who attacked more than 15 juubi's from the rookies

Learned a S-ranked jutsu that only one other person in the shonibi world knows

Stored chakra in one point for 3 years

Summoned Katsyu

Saved Naruto without chakra

Saved Shikamaru

Healed countless of people from the alliance

Attacked Madara(even though she failed)

Got praised by some very notable people

But please go on, on how she's a pairing fodder. Cause I have a hunch that you're always trying to downplay Sakura 

 

Edited by TheMagicConch, 30 June 2014 - 01:22 PM.

[narusaku256]

Does anyone know as to exactly how many people know that Naruto is the son of Yondaime Hokage Minato, apart from all the elders and Kages and senseis(excluding Iruka of course)? Since Minato has entered this war, the whole alliance sure has seen Naruto addressing Minato as his 'Dad' and of course they have seen their precious team work! But I was kinda expecting a shocked expression from other K11 members and Sakura when they came to know that Naruto is the son of Yondaime Minato! That moment just sort of....went away with the wind XD

Edited by narusaku256, 30 June 2014 - 01:20 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You just described an archetype, congratulations, every successful story uses archetypes.

I described an archetype and criticized the use of the said archetype because makes no sense with the direction of the story and you responded with sarcasm as a pathetic attempt to counter my argument.
 

I guess you forgot what Kakashi said about Sakura and her wanting to save Sasuke from darkness just like Naruto.Team 7 always had drama and if you haven't releaed it, kishimoto is going back to when he started. Team 7 will always care for Sasuke and wants to save him from darkness, it's been hit over the head a billions times. Sakura caring whether Sasuke said something for when she got hurt is more like seeing if there was still hope

I did not, wanting to save Sasuke from the darkness is one thing, being depressed about what Sasuke thinks about her twice despite he tried to kill her previously is another story.
On which makes no sense due to the fact he will care about her later it's pointless drama that damage her character.
 

Lol nobody is upset that they're stronger than her.

That's exaclty what i described nobody is upset but that setup is unrealistic to her character since we all know she's not going to achieve that, so for what purpose?
The conclusion is on the next response.
 

Let's see what she's done after the Sasori arc:
Figured out how Obito's technique works before anybody else

Nope, if they figured out they would know how to counter that technique way before that.

Was in a team with Shikamru and that other female figuring out Jiraiya's message

Is minimal.

When Naruto went nine tails on Nagato she ordered Katsyu to tell everybody to get back

How this is exactly a feat, arent you overrating this?
I'm not praising Hinata for telling the ninjas to gather up to protect Naruto.
 

She figured out the Zetsu's plan

That was usefull however from a supportive perspective.

Was the only one who attacked more than 15 juubi's from the rookies

"FODDERS"!

Learned a S-ranked jutsu that only one other person in the shonibi world knows

That jutsu whom allows you to use yourself as a meat shield.
No please that was the worst thing that ever happened to her character, instead of giving her a jutsu to avoid being a damsel in distress he gaves her jutsu that puts her in more situations like that.

Stored chakra in one point for 3 years

That's an impressive feat.

Saved Naruto without chakra

Then later shows her going to heal Kakashi with chakra, the purpose of her healing Naruto without chakra was just for drama.
BUt that doesnt take from her the credit of saving Naruto's life.

Saved Shikamaru

Note : She and mostly Naruto who saved him however Tsunade came and used a way stronger healing ninjutsu than Sakura on which never showed superior healing skill than that.

Healed countless of people from the alliance

She did that however, Kishimoto gave it for her jutsu compliment Naruto's chakra cloak but guess what Kishimoto does chapters later?
He gives an asspull healing ninjutsu capable of doing the impossible not even Sakura can catch up with it, making her jutsu now completely useless from the perspective of being a support.
 

But please go on, on how she's a pairing fodder. Cause I have a hunch that you're always trying to downplay Sakura

Look at her development, she's centered on the drama around Naruto and Sasuke with a focus on her personal feelings and that went since the arc started on 540, her "shinobi" development was about her catching up with Naruto and Sasuke on which was stated several times on this arc, but ended up with Naruto and Sasuke receiving further powerups and she feeling useless and doing reckless things in order to prove herself.

She doesnt received development on her shinobi aspect, she doenst received development on the hatred aspect which is the main point of "team 7" she hasnt surpassed Tsunade, some characters pointed out but she didnt did anything the audience can say she surpassed Tsunade without a doubt.
She didnt gained confidence and resolve despite saving Naruto's life, being able to heal the alliance so where's exactly this development when she acts as the same girl since the summit ended.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 30 June 2014 - 01:48 PM.

[Change]

I described an archetype and criticized the use of the said archetype because makes no sense with the direction of the story and you responded with sarcasm as a pathetic attempt to counter my argument.

Lol a pathetic counter, please

Because to YOU it makes no sense, you're stating it as a fact

I did not, wanting to save Sasuke from the darkness is one thing, being depressed about what Sasuke thinks about her twice despite he tried to kill her previously is another story.
On which makes no sense due to the fact he will care about her later it's pointless drama that damage her character.

Thank you kishimoto

Cause we know what Sasuke will do later on, oh look we don't

That's exaclty what i described nobody is upset but that setup is unrealistic to her character since we all know she's not going to achieve that, so for what purpose?
The conclusion is on the next response.

Again thank you kishimoto

We don't know what's going to happen in the manga though

Maybe a setup? I don't know. 

Nope, if they figured out they would know how to counter that technique way before that.
Is minimal.
How this is exactly a feat, arent you overrating this?
I'm not praising Hinata for telling the ninjas to gather up to protect Naruto.

 

Oh really? she didn't?

http://2.p.mpcdn.net...06/338459/9.jpg
http://2.p.mpcdn.net...6/338459/10.jpg

 

How is that minimal, that's showing she's one of the smartest shonibi's Konoha has. Please don't underrate that now

Not overrating it, but say all the time that she didn't do nothing unlike Hinata which isn't true because I just proved them wrong. 

That was usefull however from a supportive perspective.
"FODDERS"!
That jutsu whom allows you to use yourself as a meat shield.
No please that was the worst thing that ever happened to her character, instead of giving her a jutsu to avoid being a damsel in distress he gaves her jutsu that puts her in more situations like that.
That's an impressive feat.

Oh I'm sorry she caused in further deaths to occur, I'm sorry it was done to show he intellectual skills.

Typing fodders in all caps doesn't work on me. She did something that the rest of k11 didn't and it showed her destructive power. 

Lol that a jutsu that was compared to Haishirama is now dumb to you? She's a close range fighter, that jutsu helps her a lot.  But what ever, I guess it can't please everybody

 

Then later shows her going to heal Kakashi with chakra, the purpose of her healing Naruto without chakra was just for drama.
BUt that doesnt take from her the credit of saving Naruto's life.
Note : She and mostly Naruto who saved him however Tsunade came and used a way stronger healing ninjutsu than Sakura on which never showed superior healing skill than that.

With what little chakra she had left. I just said she saved him without using chakra on him

Without Sakura there who would have healed him? Yes Naruto and Tsunade helped but Sakura is the reason he made it that far. Also Tsunade has been medical ninjutsu for decades now, of course hear healing abilities are better.

She did that however, Kishimoto gave it for her jutsu compliment Naruto's chakra cloak but guess what Kishimoto does chapters later?
He gives an asspull healing ninjutsu capable of doing the impossible not even Sakura can catch up with it, making her jutsu now completely useless from the perspective of being a support.

Nope she has been healing people in the alliance throwout the war without his cloak, when she summoned Katsuyu and then later again with Tsunade.

Wrong, that's not ninjutsu. 

He created an eye out of no where and Gai still looks like a brunt toast. He most likely used Creation of All Things.

Look at her development, she's centered on the drama around Naruto and Sasuke with a focus on her personal feelings and that went since the arc started on 540, her "shinobi" development was about her catching up with Naruto and Sasuke on which was stated several times on this arc, but ended up with Naruto and Sasuke receiving further powerups and she feeling useless and doing reckless things in order to prove herself.

She doesnt received development on her shinobi aspect, she doenst received development on the hatred aspect which is the main point of "team 7" she hasnt surpassed Tsunade, some characters pointed out but she didnt did anything the audience can say she surpassed Tsunade without a doubt.
She didnt gained confidence and resolve despite saving Naruto's life, being able to heal the alliance so where's exactly this development when she acts as the same girl since the summit ended.

Not even going to argue with you on this, because this is obviously how YOU feel. 

Edited by TheMagicConch, 30 June 2014 - 02:19 PM.

[Nate River]

@Nate River:
 
The problem with that though is that everyone has their own interpretation. Just because they're 'okay' with Sakura's treatment from Kishi and don't raise any complaints doesn't make them wrong. People like you and me who'd I'd rather have Sakura fight more and not always be sidelined/registered to 'damsel in distress' can complain, but at the same time it's just our opinion. Some people have higher standards for characters than others.

It's not simply about fighting. For me, the big issue is plot involvement. She does not matter to the core conflict, so we get what we what we have for the whole war arc. Uneven, sporadic participation followed by sliding into the background for huge chunks of time. He primary involvement is to the romance subplot.

I understand why Kishimoto tells of very little about what she thinks. It's almost always leaked through others. Telling us would go a long way to resolving the pairings, but I think it'd help because people are vexed as to who she can still like Sasuke. Kakashi finally offered a glimpse into why, but it's been a question in long search of answer.

As to the fighting itself, it's Kishimoto who constantly defines her wanting to be on par with her teammates. However, the result is always a brief boost follow by more background. It's never sustained, so it's hard to say he providing a satisfactory response to that goal. He could have defined it numerous ways, but he doesn't. She is one of the strongest ninja in the series, but of what value is that at this point? As the big bag has increased their power (and even what can do damage) to such ridiculous levels that she might as well be a beginner genin for all it will matter in this fight. I dislike hanging my hat on her strength at this point because it feels like a cop-out or an acceptance of mediocrity on the author's part. He keeps saying she will stand on par with them, but she hasn't so here audience, here's your participation trophy.

I don't care that much she was made a healer, but it has its limitations. Being kept alive is obviously paramount and it was her best moment by far, but at some point they have to fight, so it's sporadic at best. What's more when she's not doing that, she's not doing anything of substance. He allows her to perform patent fade into the background once she is done. Still, I don't think it translates all that well into this format because while it's important, but not flashy. It's also hampered by the fact that it's plain as day that Kishimoto's medical knowledge is nil. He has tried to compensate either through scale or through healing awful injuries (Tsunade).
 

I think Kishimoto did excellent with Sakura's emotional development and it feels comforting she's not as useless in battle as she used to be way back in Part 1. I'm thankful for that. Her medical ninjutsu is impressive, but the situations Kishimoto puts Sakura in by always being saved or having minor moments sort of sullies that. This is a fighting manga. It's not that much of a surprise that fans criticize her as "useless" when this manga is more ruled by fighting than healing or support.

I think she's done fine on this. But again, fighting is a secondary problem. Lack of true plot relevance is the primary one. Having her consistently fight could help solve that problem, but it's not necessary for it.

She fades because her character isn't really attached to the core conflict anymore than any other rookie. This is the part I think is inexcusable, and most of her other issues stem directly from it. Kakashi has been tied better to it.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Thank you kishimoto
Cause we know what Sasuke will do later on, oh look we don't

We know he will.

Again thank you kishimoto
We don't know what's going to happen in the manga though

No but he knows and that doesnt make sense.
 

Oh really? she didn't?
http://2.p.mpcdn.net...06/338459/9.jpg
http://2.p.mpcdn.net...6/338459/10.jpg
 
How is that minimal, that's showing she's one of the smartest shonibi's Konoha has. Please don't underrate that now
Not overrating it, but say all the time that she didn't do nothing unlike Hinata which isn't true because I just proved them wrong.

one of the smartest shinboi's konoha has.
Has she done a single plan that was successfull?
Was her intelligence a feat that was really important for something be successfull?
No you can't so i dont think she's one of the smartest konoha shinobi's when this trait is not put into pratice and anyway it was shikamaru/Kakashi/Naruto who solved the code not Sakura.
 

Oh I'm sorry she caused in further deaths to occur, I'm sorry it was done to show he intellectual skills.
Typing fodders in all caps doesn't work on me. She did something that the rest of k11 didn't and it showed her destructive power. 
Lol that a jutsu that was compared to Haishirama is now dumb to you? She's a close range fighter, that jutsu helps her a lot.  But what ever, I guess it can't please everybody

yeah it makes no sense, she's suddenly strong and badass for destroying more fodders than the other k11's.
She's a great main character when you're comparing her power with other side characters like the k11 she's such a strong kunoichi.
You dont even compared her with Tsunade the person whom she's supposed to surpass.
The first hokage praised her so what?
It was put to practice, she could even lay a finger on Madara, neither do something against anyone other than fodders on this arc.
 

With what little chakra she had left. I just said she saved him without using chakra on him
Without Sakura there who would have healed him? Yes Naruto and Tsunade helped but Sakura is the reason he made it that far. Also Tsunade has been medical ninjutsu for decades now, of course hear healing abilities are better.

I didnt diminshed it i just did a commentary.
About Tsunade, it just show that she hasnt surpassed her, Jiraiya had ages ahead Naruto and yet his sage mode was stronger than Jiraiya's, Sakura's healing ninjutsu inst superior to Tsunade's.
 

Nope she has been healing people in the alliance throwout the war without his cloak, when she summoned Katsuyu and then later again with Tsunade.

With Naruto's chakra cloak, her healing ninjutsu was supposed to compliment Naruto's power, however he's now a god it's no longer usefull.
 

He created an eye out of no where and Gai still looks like a brunt toast. He most likely used Creation of All Things.
Not even going to argue with you on this, because this is obviously how YOU feel.

That's telling, how Sakura can be usefull when all her teamates are capable of doing way more than her on everything?
She doesnt have anything that make her a distinct asset on her team, she doesnt have abilities to compliment their abilities that's what i'm saying.
She worked hard for that powerup for Naruto in one chapter make all that pointless and irrelevant to a point that her character has no room more to develop other on the emotional aspect.

Her healing skills - Naruto makes it look like genin level.
Her intelligence - rushing to attack Madara out of nowhere.
Her strenght - Naruto's punch there.

Where she can make a difference on this?

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 30 June 2014 - 02:40 PM.