1040 replies to this topic

[TrueSacrifice]

Yes the NarusSaku moment in this chapter is certainly not a canonizing one. What made it poignant to me however is that Kishimoto decided to put Karin in the place of one worried about Sasuke. Even more so is the last page of the chapter where the girls are parallelled worrying about the boys. I already suspected Kishimoto to have Naruto brought to where Sakura was and to have her freak out about what happened to him. I did not foresee him giving equal weight to Karin in her worry over Sasuke. This is yet another blow to SS and a terrific shot in the arm for SK. SK was already doing as fine as it needed to up to this point, but this chapter raised it a few levels of prominence. Of course it doesn't decide anything about end couples but it certainly does hint at them.

 

As a NaruSaku fan I was perfectly satisfied by this chapter. Sakura reacted appropriately to Naruto's condition and if my eyes didn't deceive me it looked as if she could burst into tears at any time. Personally I'm glad that Sakura wasn't given a choice between healing Naruto or Sasuke. Not because she would choose Sasuke but because it would hinder her concentration. Romantic love or not Sakura still has feelings for Sasuke. It was a smart move of Kishimoto to avoid that problem altogether and have Karin and Taka be aware of Sasuke's condition.

 

As for Hinata... Honestly Hinata's trip made me a little sad. She's such a pitiful character it was actually kind of heartbreaking to see that happen to her. It's from moments like this that make me wonder if Kishimoto actually does feel contempt for her character.

 

For one reason or another yes, but I am guessing you are not referring to the NH and SS fans right? It's something I have question a while now, but I guess some people don't want to see it as a "win" because of how many times Kishi has trolled with pairing moments.

 

Honestly I don't think he's trolled any pairing moments. He just seems to bide his time and toss out teases and hints every now and then. Every once in a while a true paring moment happens. Sure it can be frustrating for diehard shippers but I guess that's just the way he does things. Any trolls I see derive from fans expecting too much.

 

Of course I'd like to hear what you think are some of the moments he's trolled. It may give me a better perspective.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Most obviously, TrueSacrifice, the whole hand holding thing with Hinata and Naruto several chapters back.  To end a chapter like that and then start the next chapter with Naruto basically saying, "Oh, I held your hand to give you chakra. Now let me do the same to an entire army to give them chakra!" which sorta lowers any meaning to them holding hands that may be taken as romantic. It sorta reeks of trolling.

[咲耶姫]

The whole handholding shouldn't be read as either black or white in my opinion. What I mean is that in fans perspective, it's either a romantic gesture or just a nonsense gensture which had only one purpose: the chakra transfer. While I agree that it was to give chakra to Hinata it was also an impactful moment in terms of character's bond, but I don't consider it as romantic, it would be more like a "nakama" getsure and moment; The impact on Naruto and Hinata's relationship shouldn't be minimized. To me, it was not just chakra transfer,it was really a nakama moment. 

[Branden]

Most obviously, TrueSacrifice, the whole hand holding thing with Hinata and Naruto several chapters back.  To end a chapter like that and then start the next chapter with Naruto basically saying, "Oh, I held your hand to give you chakra. Now let me do the same to an entire army to give them chakra!" which sorta lowers any meaning to them holding hands that may be taken as romantic. It sorta reeks of trolling.

I don't know about trolling, I  think he's trying to make it seem like NaruSaku is in danger so that we keep our eyes on it. If there were no other pairings then people would be complaining about Naruto and Sakura not already being together, which would be an accruate criticism. Kishimoto doesn't want NaruSaku to become canon yet because it would ruin some of the team 7 dynamics, that's why he's saving it for the end.

[James S Cassidy]

Honestly I don't think he's trolled any pairing moments. He just seems to bide his time and toss out teases and hints every now and then. Every once in a while a true paring moment happens. Sure it can be frustrating for diehard shippers but I guess that's just the way he does things. Any trolls I see derive from fans expecting too much.

 

Of course I'd like to hear what you think are some of the moments he's trolled. It may give me a better perspective.

 

I'm not sure myself. I don't want to jump to any conclusions myself, but there have been times where it seems like a troll. 615 is a good example of one where NH could have gotten a huge leg up and instead got a huge let down. This is especially true when they got that 2-3 week break where the hand holding was the last chapter for a while and NH fans bragged so hard.

However, this really is the only occurrence where it feels like an actual troll while the other moments seem more like stalling agents. Like chapter 540 for example where Sakura thought of Sasuke, but in a negative light. Really, in that particular moment (as I mentioned on the podcast), if Sakura thought of Naruto right then and there...the pairing wars would be over. It would mean NaruSaku's canonizing right then, and there would be no arguments anymore. Sure, people will try putting up a fight, but it doesn't change the facts.

 

The whole handholding shouldn't be read as either black or white in my opinion. What I mean is that in fans perspective, it's either a romantic gesture or just a nonsense gensture which had only one purpose: the chakra transfer. While I agree that it was to give chakra to Hinata it was also an impactful moment in terms of character's bond, but I don't consider it as romantic, it would be more like a "nakama" getsure and moment; The impact on Naruto and Hinata's relationship shouldn't be minimized. To me, it was not just chakra transfer,it was really a nakama moment.

 

Truth be told, I am not sure how to take it at this point. All I can say is that it still was a huge let down for NH fans and the more Kishi makes a fool out of Hinata the less impact that chapter has on me.

This is why I was so against just bringing Neji back to life because it is like taking an eraser and just wiping that chapter from existence. Well not really, but I mean on an impact basis.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 25 January 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[soraandven]

 

1)Mangastream is right here. But Sakura said "Honestly... Both Tsunade-sama and I... and even Shizune-senpai... we cannot use the medical ninjutsu anymore if we'd think about fighting."  I dunno why Mangapanda didn't translated the other part of her sentece.

2)Mangapanda's right. Hinata just thought "Nii-san... Please protect Naruto-kun!!"

3)Literally Sakura said

"Be firm as a rock!/Stick out!!"

"Don't lose!!"

"You're strong!!"

"You will... You will certainly survive!!!"

so hinata did say that after all how sad for her so called development

[narusakurama]

If she never recover then she will never develop as a character.
I laughed and the tripping thing was funny for me, the scene showed Hinata's major flaw, she only cares about Naruto, if a medic cant save Naruto she surely would not be capable too, she wasnt capable of relying Naruto's life to Sakura or her other friends she solely wanted to do it by herself, it was in a way selfish.
She abandoned her position and didnt even responded to Kiba's question about Naruto's status.

Hinata has Kiba and Shino as her friends maybe if she told them about Naruto's condition they would take her to Naruto that tripping had a meaning for me.
At least for me she deserved to stumble on this chapter, it's not bashing but i hope that she realizes that there are people at her side on which are there to help her.

 

Has Hinata actually developed as a character at all , until now ? I think that's exactly why some are not happy about this scene . Showing her recognize that Naruto is with the best 3 medics in the village and there 's nothing really she can do to help him other than continuing to fight alongside her teammates , would have developed her character .  Instead , Kishi continued to make her out as the selfish little girl obssessed with Naruto . Any character development , if any , Hinata got until now was simply destroyed by this one scene . It is similar to showing Sakura going back to being Sasuke's fangirl , but not nearly as bad since Sakura's character has A LOT more development .

[James S Cassidy]

 

Has Hinata actually developed as a character at all , until now ? I think that's exactly why some are not happy about this scene . Showing her recognize that Naruto is with the best 3 medics in the village and there 's nothing really she can do to help him other than continuing to fight alongside her teammates , would have developed her character .  Instead , Kishi continued to make her out as the selfish little girl obssessed with Naruto . Any character development , if any , Hinata got until now was simply destroyed by this one scene . It is similar to showing Sakura going back to being Sasuke's fangirl , but not nearly as bad since Sakura's character has A LOT more development .

Bingo. You get a cookie.

[Dkey]

"Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

-Mahatma Gandhi

Kind ironic though that people are getting revenge about a subject in a manga whose message is about how revenge is bad.

Still, you're right. Fans will be fans. However, I think after this I can no longer accept people when they say "You shouldn't be as delusional as NH fans when it comes to pairing moments."

 

Actually it's not so much as revenge but more as schadenfreude. The NS fans are joking about the fact that Kishi did what he he did with Hinata.

 

I personally don't understand why he decided to do this scene with Hinata.... IF he really wanted her to look like she was powerless then just drop to her knees or something in  exhaustion and not kiss the ground with her face with a random shinobi asking if she is OK.

 

If you want to not stoop to that level of reveling in someone else's bad luck or whatever this scene could be described than just don't. It was expected of NS fans to laugh when anti NH scenes were shown in the manga ( and even anime ) because of the way the entire fandom is.

[Aeria7Gloris]

Since Studio Pierrot is a big Hinata fan... Do you think her trip will be portrayed all dramatic and graceful (with maybe some slow motion)? Instead of that hard faceground. That's all I can think about right now. Because, it would be almost comedy if they stick to the manga

Edited by Aeria7Gloris, 25 January 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[六道仙人]

Since Studio Pierrot is a big Hinata fan... Do you think her trip will be portrayed all dramatic and graceful (with maybe some low motion)? Instead of that hard faceground. That's all I can think about right now. Because, it would be almost comedy if they stick to the manga

 

sure... an entire arc off 26 episodes about hinata tripping

[Hanabi]

dem hina-chan fan animators will be liek, 'wuuuuut' and start dramatizing it all over again with close up panels, glittery tears, slo-mo, and shiny silky purple hair commercials

[TouKen4Life3g]

You know, I think I'm convinced that the scenes with Hinata was a symbolic move from Kishi that it's not her place to be in this plot, so remain with other side characters. That's how I see it.

You know, how long would it take for Gaara to arrive that place?

[T XD]

For those who are wondering or are confused of why Hinata was in this chapter regarding how it didn't turn out well for her, here's my thought:

 

Hinata has to do someting in this chapter cause she's one of the few side characters, like Gaara and Shikamaru, who is on a higher level of importance from the side characters cast, and there's also her popularity. She does has a base of popularity in Japan like Shikamaru. Fan services are delivered from Kishi when he wants to.

 

Naruto was delivered to Sakura between the alliance crowd ---> Most of the rookies knew about his condition ---> Hinata, of course, will be shown to have a reaction that isn't like the others ---> Very possible to make a little role of her own which she did since her character revolves around Naruto ---> She can't do anything for him if she joined Sakura ---> So, there has to be something to stop her which was her stumbling on the floor.

 

Yes, her stumbling on the floor wasn't a good way, but that's Kishi's way of telling that she isn't the one to be beside Naruto in her life and, from what it seems from the " THUD " panel, he wanted to add a comical sense to it, or just make her stumble without being taken as comical.

 

You know, I think I'm convinced that the scenes with Hinata was a symbolic move from Kishi that it's not her place to be in this plot, so remain with other side characters. That's how I see it.

You know, how long would it take for Gaara to arrive that place?

Well, when Kishi wants to XD

 

I think, excluding Madara's talk with his panels and what the alliance are handling now, within the second or third upcoming chapter.

Edited by T XD, 25 January 2014 - 08:22 PM.

[六道仙人]

I'm not a fan of SK but I don't really understand why they're complaining about the Karin's dignity who is still crying for Sasuke after all what he did to her during danzo's fight.

Hellooo, do you remember how Sasuke tried to stab Sakura twice in the same arc? If it weren't for Kakashi and Naruto, Sakura would have been in a worse situation than Karin's, dead in other words. At least Sasuke has apologized to Karin.

sigh double standard everywhere.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Few things I want to say:

When you really look back, the only part Hinata provided us was the confirmation that Naruto is dying, not unconscious only to be recovered by a medic. Pretty much, it also confirmed Kushina still would have died. That said when you get the bottom of it, she didn't have that reaction for Naruto, as to say, "That's Sakura's job." She only heard Naruto got there, asked where, confirmed us that he's dying, and pretty much confirmed that she's out of this one. Just a heads up, if you see Hinata happy for Naruto recovered in the future, it's only relevant to how Shaman King (anime version) portrayed. In other words, it don't mean anything.

Sakura, well, you all know the story, so I don't need to go over.

As for Karin, I'll be honest, I feel like 627 was a sign for us to think SK is quite possible more than any pairings. Yes, we have been saying that for a while, but this is straight from the creator's words. I'll wait and see on how Kishi continues to follow up this one.

[James S Cassidy]

 

Actually it's not so much as revenge but more as schadenfreude. The NS fans are joking about the fact that Kishi did what he he did with Hinata.

 

I personally don't understand why he decided to do this scene with Hinata.... IF he really wanted her to look like she was powerless then just drop to her knees or something in  exhaustion and not kiss the ground with her face with a random shinobi asking if she is OK.

 

If you want to not stoop to that level of reveling in someone else's bad luck or whatever this scene could be described than just don't. It was expected of NS fans to laugh when anti NH scenes were shown in the manga ( and even anime ) because of the way the entire fandom is.

I think you are missing the point, Dkey, that I am really trying to make.
 

Many of times in this forum I get a lot from people is to "Not be like the NH fans" and be delusional. Okay, but from what people say is that NH fans pick on Sakura and make fun of her and point out all her mistakes labeling her as worthless cracking jokes at her expense. Now, I know there are many fans here who hate that and many of you have protested against it even to this very day.

Now here comes this moment right now, and some of you are doing exactly what the NH fans are doing that you hated and you're doing it exactly the same way, but against them. Do you really think this makes you better for it? I am tired of people being so judgmental of me or others because they get excited about something and get told "We shouldn't be delusional like NH fans," but then turn right around and do the exact same thing like it doesn't apply to them.

So you can do what you want, people can crack jokes all they want or make memes or throw it in the face of the NH fans, but just know that if anyone does this now, you can no longer say that "We shouldn't be like the NH fans." Otherwise, we make ourselves to be huge hypocrites which is what I am trying to say.

 

People probably don't care either way, but I am just saying that the next time something happens you can't judge them when you are just as guilty. I am also thinking about it as though it was Sakura that tripped and fell and I wouldn't laugh then either. Would you have laughed if it was Sakura that tripped and fell?

Unfortunately, all the NS, NH, or SS fans that caused the most problems are the real main reason why the fandom sucks sometimes because they are the ones that cause trouble. Meanwhile, the members that just want to enjoy their pairing and have a good discussion can't do that because these "other members" are just so obnoxious and ruin it.

Im am not perfect either, but I rather try and be a decent person rather than just say "Screw it" and do whatever I want.
 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 25 January 2014 - 02:28 PM.

[sushi.]

I'm not a fan of SK but I don't really understand why they're complaining about the Karin's dignity who is still crying for Sasuke after all what he did to her during danzo's fight.

Hellooo, do you remember how Sasuke tried to stab Sakura twice in the same arc? If it weren't for Kakashi and Naruto, Sakura would have been in a worse situation than Karin's, dead in other words. At least Sasuke has apologized to Karin.

sigh double standard everywhere.

No one should call Karin a simple fangirl after this chapter. Please, just don't. x( She is panicking because she actually loves him, not because she is crazy or weak. Saw a debate on SK vs SS. First thing one said, "I just can't picture Karin as more than a fangirl, she hasn't shown me anything that she is". : ((((

[TouKen4Life3g]

No one should call Karin a simple fangirl after this chapter. Please, just don't. x( She is panicking because she actually loves him, not because she is crazy or weak. Saw a debate on SK vs SS. First thing one said, "I just can't picture Karin as more than a fangirl, she hasn't shown me anything that she is". : ((((

Hm...

A girl who was saved from danger vs. a girl who just loves the guy based on what fangirl truly saw. Hm...hard to decide.

[Chatte]

No one should call Karin a simple fangirl after this chapter. Please, just don't. x( She is panicking because she actually loves him, not because she is crazy or weak. Saw a debate on SK vs SS. First thing one said, "I just can't picture Karin as more than a fangirl, she hasn't shown me anything that she is". : ((((

Karin is not a fangirl and that's why SS fans are pissed. Yes, she is a rather exotic sexual character, but also tragic and with a pure soul. She loves Sasuke, and for some reason, Sasuke too, has her in high regards that he, himself went to get her and he, himself sacrificed her which marked Sasuke's lowest point. 

Think about it, neither Sasuke doing the same thing to Naruto back in VotE didn't mark Sasuke's lowest point, but Karin's sacrifice did. And I think SS fans are just jealous because of that, because Sakura never really impacted Sasuke that much, Sasuke never really did something for Sakura, specifically, on the contrary.

Whereas with Karin, he went specifically for her, he gave her for some unknown reason the most OOC smile of his, that we've only seen prior Uchiha massacre [I mean, imagine that!], he awoke a new power from the desire and desperation to save her life and after sacrificing her, he used the most deep apologetic measures to show his sincere regret for what he has done to her.

When with Sakura, not even a simple gomen she didn't received, we're not even talking about sumanata [or something like this].

 

And they're mad now, because they are forced to admit that Karin represents and means much more in Sasuke's life than Sakura ever represented/would represent. And Kishi forcibly makes everyone reckon with that, that's it, playtime is over, let's get to serious things, the manga is about to end so here is my Pandora box.

 

And besides the fact that they are forced to admit this fact with Karin, they're also forced to admit that Sakura holds Naruto in higher regards than she does Sasuke, and given that their only and strongest argument "But Sakura loves Sasuke!!!" is quite getting destroyed, it's hard... Imagine how hard it is.

 

To me, it would be hella hard if I were them, I have to admit. But they did it to their own. Too stubborn to admit.

So this is why, they just throw wanna-be arguments like these. To kinda psychologically defend themselves too. This is all that those arguments are. Mental defenses.

 

In my opinion, of course.