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#721 Atheck

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:13 AM

The powers received from Hagoromo may very well be temporary or permanent.  I lean toward temporary, as you know.  One, having too much power invites conceit. These are words Hagoromo said to what happened to his mother.

While I'm not trying to say Naruto of all people will get arrogant, it's better just to not have that kind of temptation constantly.  Second, the powers are limited to their respective right and left hands.  We've seen whenever they use the sages power, they use the hand that has the marks of their representative moon on their hand.  Sasuke, who by no means should have inherent sage chakra, is able to generate the Black Chidori through his left hand.  There's a reason why the Sage said to put their dominant hands on his staff, because it's the hand they most commonly use.


He's the pot calling the kettle black. Hagoromo was gifted with powers inconceivable to the modern man and besides having a high opinion of himself he handled things like someone who had the strength of character to not allow his power to corrupt him. Every person handles authority differently. Many are able to maintain some self-restraint and not let their strength go to their heads. True, you do have a few bad apples who take what they have to the extreme, but that in no way should be used as a justification to impose some blanket standard of possession when it is only a few, not the many, that are pushing the ethical boundaries with their power. You don't see any of the Alliance forces or the Kages pushing for hegemony over the rest because they might have a few more weapons and men than the foreign national standing next to them. It's mostly the figureheads of the Uchiha (whose adopted ideology could be simplified to "might makes right") and those who think like them that have been the cause for most of the dangers being faced now.

Accusations of corruption should be saved for those who have actually let their power override their judgement. I don't know about Sasuke, but Naruto already had this possibility brought to his attention by Itachi back when the main war was ongoing, he's aware of the risks that his power brings. If he ever chooses to drop his morality lessons for a high and mighty attitude then the alarm can be raised. But for the time being, I don't think we should be so quick to strip Naruto down to nothing for the actions of other people. Besides, when Hagoromo made that statement, it was mostly directed towards Kaguya - the woman who is literally absorbing the chakra of people from around the world. That would be a textbook example of a person mishandling their authority and power. If anyone should be judged, it's her.
 

I'd imagine it would be awkward invoking these powers through their other arms, and crippling their efficiency.


Crippling their efficiency? They're not trying to look two ways at once. These markings merely act as ducts for the chakra they were given. It's hardly any different than the air tubes that Zaku carved through his arms to release his specialized jutsu. These aren't Genin who have just gotten out of the academy who have no idea about the chakra pathway system. They've demonstrated a level of control over their chakra that's nothing less but amazing. Giving them the means to channel the Sage's chakra through their other palms would in no way be hazardous to them unless there's a limit of only one appendage to use these powers with that I'm missing.
 

Third, the manga is consistent when issuing a power balance.  Not one person or village would have too much power.  Having Sasuke and Naruto keep these powers will destroy that balance, completely.


What power balance? This idea of a restrictive ceiling preventing other nations from being able to have an equal say in things is just hogwash. No sooner could these powers be removed that you would have to empty their genetic makeup of the components that make them more naturally gifted than others or enact policies of societal/economic/military downsizing in the largest villages because they happen to have a larger population or more clans living in their borders.

Again, if people allow paranoia to run their lives then the Narutoverse is no closer to achieving peace than the era when wars were being waged one after the other.
 

The Bijuus I still see no reason to they have to stay inside Naruto. Previous build-up, hints that they will be free and live in their own way. Plus, we have to consider the actual Bijuu are not inside Naruto, but Kaguya.  What naruto has is a piece of their real form, and what will happen to those pieces once the Bijuu are free again?  What will happen to Kurama with him being split into two entities? Will the other half remain seperate, or will they both merge either outside, or inside Naruto?  This leads me to believe that whatever happens will be circumstantial that leads to one conclusion. We know both halves will have to join together again, but how and where will they inevitably reside afterwards.  It's not just about Naruto and his supposed destiny.  We have to think of Gaara and Bee as well, who are the only ones left alive to continue bonding with the Bijuu they held within them.


Hagoromo's main interest with the bijuu was for them to not be looked at and exploited as creatures of destruction. The planted seeds of mistrust and resentment are what compelled them to turn their backs on those ambitions and carry out their personal sprees of terror. Now that they've finally received the recognition they were so desperately crying out for, they're willing to cooperate with humans. Does that mean that they're going to allow themselves to be extracted from Naruto at the expense of his life? I would hope not, but how they handle their newfound roles in the shinobi world is a mystery. The idea of them wanting to live independently seems like it'd be the next logical step to take after being released from the shackles of servitude. But the truth is that there's been no statement made (that I know of) from any pacified bijuu expressing the wish to leave their human companions. We had some of the more embittered bijuu trying to break free so they could continue killing, but the bijuu now have shown no such enthusiasm. Does this mean that they no longer have the desire to live independently? Maybe, maybe not... I can only go by the docile nature Gyuki showed in his close friendship with Bee and the statements made by others that allude to the idea that the bijuu would be willing to continue living inside of Naruto until at least the end of the manga (eventually overtaking the previous Hokages strictly in the technical sense which I doubt Kishi would recant, Naruto's persistent desire to become stronger, and Hagoromo's prophetic remarks about the bijuu coming together to know true power).

Nearly all of the jinchuuriki have died. However Gaara and Bee will react to Shukaku and Gyuki being in separate bodies is unknown, but their opinions aren't the main issue. Naruto is still a vessel for bits of the nine creatures' chakra. Even after this battle is over, besides everything that's been said, he'll still have use for their abilities, especially if he intends to fight Sasuke with the power ups he's gotten.
 

Sakura and Kakashi have just as much stake in this fight as Naruto and Sasuke, simply because they are here.  If they didn't have any stake, they would have been put in IT along with the rest of the world. Sakura from the latest chapters is hinted to have something happen to her, at the least.  She wants to stand with the boys.


Kishi certainly gives them more privilege than any of the other Rookies. This makes me think back to the climactic reunion Team 7 had during the Kage Summit. After everyone who wasn't of any importance to the group had been conveniently knocked out, they had their conversation which set the wheels in motion for Sasuke to develop EMS, meet Itachi, and ultimately have a heel-face turn. Most of the important interactions were made between Sasuke and Naruto, because the plot is chiefly focused on them. They're carrying most of the weight but the others do have their uses, their relevant points. Kakashi's was during the Black Zetsu fight and Sakura has been in the limelight on a few occasions now. I doubt we've seen the last of them but it's unlikely that they'll be the ones going toe-to-toe with the antagonist (assuming Kishi's usual standards hold up in this fight).
 

We wouldn't be seeing her get depressed and insecure of not matching them if that wasn't what she wanted.  It will just be a poor cop-out to not have her succeed in her goal, and resign herself to always be relegated to the back.


There's no mistake that Sakura was put here for a reason, but I don't believe that it's going to result in this breathtaking reversal of fortune that'll skyrocket her status to legendary with a golden statue made that's as big as Naruto and Sasuke's. If she takes the initiative again, I think it'll be brief, but it won't come without causing a change that influences the course of things in some way.
 

With Kakashi, we still have Obito around.  We don't know what Madara did to him, while transferring their eyes., but Kakashi will want to save his friend, if given a chance.  Hamura is just one possibility.


His friend is likely to die whether he wants it to happen or not. If the extraction process doesn't kill Obito then something else will. Like others have said, having him removed now prevents any of the hassle that would come with holding him responsible for the multitude of heinous crimes he's committed. I think Kakashi and Naruto will have enough decency to keep his body in-tact though.
 

The main point is that they get something to be able to participate, that's not by fighting fodders.  What would be the point to keep them here, if it was just that.  I just don't see the reason why Kishimoto would have them here for something that seems so minor compared to fighting Kaguya.  Plus, it's under the assumption the transformed White Zetsu will be able to turn back to normal, but having it stated right away, and act as time limit goes against that speculation.  From Black Zetsu and Kaguya's words, the transformation to White Zetsu will take time. That's why Kaguya transported Team 7 and Obito to another place, away from her nursery, so they don't damage it in anyway that could hinder the process.  Right now, Kaguya is in front of them, and she won't have them go near the tree.  In order to save everyone, they have to take her down.  It's the only option available to them.


This battle has more participants than just Kaguya for the Akatsuki's side. It's not like Spiral Zetsu is a fragile grunt who can't survive for two minutes when going into a fight. He was keeping the entire Alliance on their toes for quite awhile. If he's at least as strong as Black Zetsu, Sakura and Kakashi have someone to fight that's fairly powerful in his own right. And I doubt Spiral Zetsu decided to just take a break and frolic in the carnage. He's the only friend Kaguya has left, her only lieutenant. Surely he would come to his maker's aid. Even if the White Zetsu army doesn't turn up, Spiral Zetsu is the next best thing. His presence allows Team 7 to finish off the last sympathizer to Kaguya's cause while Naruto and Sasuke play out the Sage's grand escapade he had with his brother and the Jubi.

#722 DattebayoXShannaro

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 03:08 AM

He's the pot calling the kettle black. Hagoromo was gifted with powers inconceivable to the modern man and besides having a high opinion of himself he handled things like someone who had the strength of character to not allow his power to corrupt him. Every person handles authority differently. Many are able to maintain some self-restraint and not let their strength go to their heads. True, you do have a few bad apples who take what they have to the extreme, but that in no way should be used as a justification to impose some blanket standard of possession when it is only a few, not the many, that are pushing the ethical boundaries with their power. You don't see any of the Alliance forces or the Kages pushing for hegemony over the rest because they might have a few more weapons and men than the foreign national standing next to them. It's mostly the figureheads of the Uchiha (whose adopted ideology could be simplified to "might makes right") and those who think like them that have been the cause for most of the dangers being faced now.

Accusations of corruption should be saved for those who have actually let their power override their judgement. I don't know about Sasuke, but Naruto already had this possibility brought to his attention by Itachi back when the main war was ongoing, he's aware of the risks that his power brings. If he ever chooses to drop his morality lessons for a high and mighty attitude then the alarm can be raised. But for the time being, I don't think we should be so quick to strip Naruto down to nothing for the actions of other people. Besides, when Hagoromo made that statement, it was mostly directed towards Kaguya - the woman who is literally absorbing the chakra of people from around the world. That would be a textbook example of a person mishandling their authority and power. If anyone should be judged, it's her.

 

Still, it's best to not have the temptation.  Naruto most likely won't become conceited.  However, it's fair concern,not only to others, but the person himself.  Anyway, it was just one of the reasons why I think the power-ups are temporary.  I think it's been established in the manga that ones with God-like powers fail.  Kaguya failed in her original objective; Hagoromo failed.  Ashura and Indra's fight ended up causing more damage and sacrifices.  I think Kishimoto has more or less wanted to portray that a person with God-like powers is not the one herald in peace.  Proven more so once Kaguya is defeated.

 

 

Crippling their efficiency? They're not trying to look two ways at once. These markings merely act as ducts for the chakra they were given. It's hardly any different than the air tubes that Zaku carved through his arms to release his specialized jutsu. These aren't Genin who have just gotten out of the academy who have no idea about the chakra pathway system. They've demonstrated a level of control over their chakra that's nothing less but amazing. Giving them the means to channel the Sage's chakra through their other palms would in no way be hazardous to them unless there's a limit of only one appendage to use these powers with that I'm missing.

 

I just meant that the hands with the moon symbols are the focal point for the new powers, and it's best to have the hand your more comfortable with.  That's all.

 

 

What power balance? This idea of a restrictive ceiling preventing other nations from being able to have an equal say in things is just hogwash. No sooner could these powers be removed that you would have to empty their genetic makeup of the components that make them more naturally gifted than others or enact policies of societal/economic/military downsizing in the largest villages because they happen to have a larger population or more clans living in their borders.

Again, if people allow paranoia to run their lives then the Narutoverse is no closer to achieving peace than the era when wars were being waged one after the other.

 

But that's will what happen eventually.  History proves that.  Ninshuu didn't stop wars; people just turned it into a weapon in the form of Ninjutsu.  What if Naruto is basically put in the same position as Hagoromo, and eras in peace?  His life is limited, and once he's gone the people will lose perspective, and start fighting again.  Another Naruto will have to be born thousands of years later to usher another temporary peace.  This is why peace that's forged around a single person is doomed to fail.  It's not one person that keeps peace, it's everyone.  Naruto can get everyone to take that responsibility even without all that power.

 

 

Hagoromo's main interest with the bijuu was for them to not be looked at and exploited as creatures of destruction. The planted seeds of mistrust and resentment are what compelled them to turn their backs on those ambitions and carry out their personal sprees of terror. Now that they've finally received the recognition they were so desperately crying out for, they're willing to cooperate with humans. Does that mean that they're going to allow themselves to be extracted from Naruto at the expense of his life? I would hope not, but how they handle their newfound roles in the shinobi world is a mystery. The idea of them wanting to live independently seems like it'd be the next logical step to take after being released from the shackles of servitude. But the truth is that there's been no statement made (that I know of) from any pacified bijuu expressing the wish to leave their human companions. We had some of the more embittered bijuu trying to break free so they could continue killing, but the bijuu now have shown no such enthusiasm. Does this mean that they no longer have the desire to live independently? Maybe, maybe not... I can only go by the docile nature Gyuki showed in his close friendship with Bee and the statements made by others that allude to the idea that the bijuu would be willing to continue living inside of Naruto until at least the end of the manga (eventually overtaking the previous Hokages strictly in the technical sense which I doubt Kishi would recant, Naruto's persistent desire to become stronger, and Hagoromo's prophetic remarks about the bijuu coming together to know true power).

Nearly all of the jinchuuriki have died. However Gaara and Bee will react to Shukaku and Gyuki being in separate bodies is unknown, but their opinions aren't the main issue. Naruto is still a vessel for bits of the nine creatures' chakra. Even after this battle is over, besides everything that's been said, he'll still have use for their abilities, especially if he intends to fight Sasuke with the power ups he's gotten.

 

It's really only Kurama that has to worry about that, and as I said, it would be a very circumstantial instance that won't risk Naruto's life.

 

The Bijuu can now live the way they see fit. If they say they want to stay with Naruto, I can't say otherwise, though it would be outside, not inside him, since Kurama is technically the only one really inside him, and it's only half of him.  The rest right now are inside Kaguya.  Really, it's complicated.

 

 

Kishi certainly gives them more privilege than any of the other Rookies. This makes me think back to the climactic reunion Team 7 had during the Kage Summit. After everyone who wasn't of any importance to the group had been conveniently knocked out, they had their conversation which set the wheels in motion for Sasuke to develop EMS, meet Itachi, and ultimately have a heel-face turn. Most of the important interactions were made between Sasuke and Naruto, because the plot is chiefly focused on them. They're carrying most of the weight but the others do have their uses, their relevant points. Kakashi's was during the Black Zetsu fight and Sakura has been in the limelight on a few occasions now. I doubt we've seen the last of them but it's unlikely that they'll be the ones going toe-to-toe with the antagonist (assuming Kishi's usual standards hold up in this fight).

 

Having them again fight the main antagonist, just mainly the two of them will be too repetitive.  Plus, it undermines the teamwork declaration in chapter 675.  Honestly, what was the point of that, if it's mainly going to be Naruto and Sasuke again?  From the last page in chapter 675, the audience expects it to be exactly as it looked.  All of team 7 fighting together, not Sakura and Kakashi do this small bit, and the rest is Naruto and Sasuke.  We didn't even get a fanservice chapter like chapter 632, quite the opposite.  No, I believe things will play differently this time.

 

 

There's no mistake that Sakura was put here for a reason, but I don't believe that it's going to result in this breathtaking reversal of fortune that'll skyrocket her status to legendary with a golden statue made that's as big as Naruto and Sasuke's. If she takes the initiative again, I think it'll be brief, but it won't come without causing a change that influences the course of things in some way.

 

No one's saying that.  It's also an assumption that what she does is brief, and at her current state.  It's almost positive that she can't do anything in the current situation at her current level.  That's why something very circumstantial needs to happen to allow her the chance to contribute, and further develop her character.

 

His friend is likely to die whether he wants it to happen or not. If the extraction process doesn't kill Obito then something else will. Like others have said, having him removed now prevents any of the hassle that would come with holding him responsible for the multitude of heinous crimes he's committed. I think Kakashi and Naruto will have enough decency to keep his body in-tact though.

 

Well, Kishimoto still has him around even if that's true, so he must still have purpose.

 

 

This battle has more participants than just Kaguya for the Akatsuki's side. It's not like Spiral Zetsu is a fragile grunt who can't survive for two minutes when going into a fight. He was keeping the entire Alliance on their toes for quite awhile. If he's at least as strong as Black Zetsu, Sakura and Kakashi have someone to fight that's fairly powerful in his own right. And I doubt Spiral Zetsu decided to just take a break and frolic in the carnage. He's the only friend Kaguya has left, her only lieutenant. Surely he would come to his maker's aid. Even if the White Zetsu army doesn't turn up, Spiral Zetsu is the next best thing. His presence allows Team 7 to finish off the last sympathizer to Kaguya's cause while Naruto and Sasuke play out the Sage's grand escapade he had with his brother and the Jubi.

 

What is Spiral Zetsu going to do when we have the mighty Kaguya?  This is the reason Konan never had a fight during Pain arc.  It would really only serve as a fan-service battle that has no real relevance, and take up panel space by adding in another front.  Also, Spiral Zetsu discarded his filling Yamato to the IT, so he's not going to be as powerful as he was fighting the alliance.  Really, he's as good as a fodder now.  We can actually speculate that he actually saves Obito by merging with him like before, though unlikely.

 

Take the situation now.  It's just Kaguya, Team 7 and Obito.  She does not expect them to leave that cave alive, even force them into that lava if necessary.  I doubt the Edo's or Spiral Zetsu will be making an appearance any time soon, at the least.  I can only speculate, and I imagine that a few people will actually fall to their doom in some way, most likely not immediately, but eventually.  I doubt Kishimoto just changed the scenery for kicks.  Plus, one where it's easy for people to die.


Edited by DattebayoXShannaro, 08 June 2014 - 03:09 AM.


#723 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 03:46 AM

I wonder what that means :|

Hmm, it's okay. Maybe next time, but thank you anyways 

I'm home now, so here's a super long explanation because Mythology is my thaaang. 

Tennyo ( heavenly maidens) are a subset of Tennin ( heavenly beings.) who serve the Bodhisattva in heaven ( basically gods in Buddhism.) They wear robes that give them the ability of flight called a Hagoromo, they are supposed to be feathered but more often then not they are drawn by artists as being long, loopy and sheer. They are also usually depicted with some sort of instrument, In a way they seem almost like Grecian muses-- talented, extremely beautiful and desirable. ( In western mythology, think Selkies or Swan maidens.) 

Legend goes that one day a young man ( usually a fisherman) spots a flock of them bathing and struck by how beautiful they are ( or one in particular is) steals one of their robes and hides it. When finished, each one gathers their garments, adorns it and takes flight back to the heavenly realm until only one is left. Without the robe she is earth bound and presumably doomed to a mortal life. 

She-- of course is panicked and begins to search for it relentlessly only to "bump" into the man who stole it who promises to help her in her plight (sneaky bastard.) Still unable to find it the maiden ends up marrying him ( sometimes she really falls in love, sometimes she doesn't.) and bares him children. 

In some stories she happens upon the robe within their home on her own, in others she will hear one of the children singing about it and some way or another finds out where its hidden and returns to heaven. In the stories where she truly grew to love her husband and children she returns to visit on occasion, in the others she's never seen again.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the story of Kaguya- but I'll do that really quick and explain why the two connect;

An old, childless bamboo cutter found a shining stalk of bamboo and cut it down only to find a baby girl about the size of his thumb inside. He took her home to his wife where-after every time he cut a stalk of bamboo gold would be found inside. As time passed the child he found grew into a beautiful young woman and despite the care he and his wife took to hide her from the outside world, news of her spread and suitors soon flocked from all over. 

Five men came and to each she assigned an impossible task- a legendary item to be brought back to her; The robe of the fire-rat, the stone bowl of the buddha, the jeweled branch of a tree from Horei, the jewel from the neck of a dragon and finally the cowrie born from a swallow. All of them fail one way or another until the emperor himself arrives and asks for her. To him she gives no tasks but politely refuses the marriage on the grounds that she is not from his country.

More time passes still and each time she looks upon the full moon she is filled with sadness knowing her return is eminent, her depression continues until she finally breaks down and explains to her parents that she belongs to the City on the Moon ( or sometimes the Capital of the Moon) In some versions she was sent to earth to escape war, or to serve a punishment and the gold found was re-reimbursement for her care there. 

Despite the emperor going through the trouble of sending soldiers to protect her and keep her on earth, people from the moon arrive to fetch her- she leaves her own robe to her parents, writes a note to the emperor and upon taking one sip of the elixir of life, sends the rest with the letter to the emperor. Once this was done, a new robe was placed upon her and all of her sorrow and love for the people on earth vanished and she returned to the moon.

Her earthly parents are left in sorrow and pine away in their depression at the end, the emperor also in sorrow and not desiring to live forever without seeing her has the elixir burned along with a letter on the highest peak in the land ( mt.Fuji) in the hopes that his words will reach the distant princess. its said that this is where Mt. Fuji got its name ( immortality) or from the soldiers  (Mountain abounding with soldiers) from the soldiers going to carry out the emperors orders.


Kaguya from the traditional story DOES wear a heavenly robe, which seems to align her with Tennyo hence the naming of her son. It could also be an illusion to the chink in her armor- the hagoromo served as the tool to bind a tennyo to earth or send her away in Kaguya's case.

Kaguya from Naruto is very clearly affiliated with the moon, and as such is meant to invoke connotations of the legend. When you originally asked this question I wondered if Hamura,Tokyo had its own version of the celestial maiden story, but I couldn't find anything on it so it must be related to something else. 

If you need anything else explained I'll try.

 


Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 08 June 2014 - 01:19 PM.

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#724 Change

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:07 AM

I'm home now, so here's a super long explanation because Mythology is my thaaang. 

Tennyo ( heavenly maidens) are a subset of Tennin ( heavenly beings.) who serve the Bodhisattva in heaven ( basically gods in Buddhism.) They wear robes that give them the ability of flight called a Hagoromo, they are supposed to be feathered but more often then not they are drawn by artists as being long, loopy and sheer. They are also usually depicted with some sort of instrument, In a way they seem almost like Grecian muses-- talented, extremely beautiful and desirable. ( In western mythology, think Selkies or Swan maidens.) 

Legend goes that one day a young man ( usually a fisherman) spots a flock of them bathing and struck by how beautiful they are ( or one in particular is) steals one of their robes and hides it. When finished, each one gathers their garments, adorns it and takes flight back to the heavenly realm until only one is left. Without the robe she is earth bound and presumably doomed to a mortal life. 

She-- of course is panicked and begins to search for it relentlessly only to "bump" into the man who stole it who promises to help her in her plight (sneaky bastard.) Still unable to find it the maiden ends up marrying him ( sometimes she really falls in love, sometimes she doesn't.) and bares him children. 

In some stories she happens upon the robe within their home on her own, in others she will hear one of the children singing about it and some way or another finds out where its hidden and returns to heaven. In the stories where she truly grew to love her husband and children she returns to visit on occasion, in the others she's never seen again.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the story of Kaguya- but I'll do that really quick and explain why the two connect;

An old, childless bamboo cutter found a shining stalk of bamboo and cut it down only to find a baby girl about the size of his thumb inside. He took her home to his wife where-after every time he cut a stalk of bamboo gold would be found inside. As time passed the child he found grew into a beautiful young woman and despite the care he and his wife took to hide her from the outside world, news of her spread and suitors soon flocked from all over. 

Five men came and to each she assigned an impossible task- a legendary item to be brought back to her; The robe of the fire-rat, the stone bowl of the buddha, the jeweled branch of a tree from Horei, the jewel from the neck of a dragon and finally the cowrie born from a swallow. All of them fail one way or another until the emperor himself arrives and asks for her. To him she gives no tasks but politely refuses the marriage on the grounds that she is not from his country.

More time passes still and each time she looks upon the full moon she is filled with sadness knowing her return is eminent, her depression continues until she finally breaks down and explains to her parents that she belongs to the City on the Moon ( or sometimes the Capital of the Moon) In some versions she was sent to earth to escape war, or to serve a punishment and the gold found was re-reimbursement for her care there. 

Despite the emperor going through the trouble of sending soldiers to protect her and keep her on earth, people from the moon arrive to fetch her- she leaves her own robe to her parents, writes a note to the emperor and upon taking one sip of the elixir of life, sends the rest with the letter to the emperor. Once this was done, a new robe was placed upon her and all of her sorrow and love for the people on earth vanished and she returned to the moon.

Her earthly parents are left in sorrow and pine away in their depression at the end, the emperor also in sorrow and not desiring to live forever without seeing her has the elixir burned along with a letter on the highest peak in the land ( mt.Fuji) in the hopes that his words will reach the distant princess. its said that this is where Mt. Fuji got its name ( immortality) or from the soldiers  ( Mountain abounding with soldiers) from the soldiers going to carry out the emperors warriors.


Kaguya from the traditional story DOES wear a heavenly robe, which seems to align her with Tennyo hence the naming of her son. It could also be an illusion to the chink in her armor- the hagoromo served as the tool to bind a tennyo to earth or send her away in Kaguya's case.

Kaguya from Naruto is very clearly affiliated with the moon, and as such is meant to invoke connotations of the legend. When you originally asked this question I wondered if Hamura,Tokyo had its own version of the celestial maiden story, but I couldn't find anything on it so it must be related to something else. 

If you need anything else explained I'll try.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to type all of that

 

 


Edited by TheMagicConch, 08 June 2014 - 04:19 AM.

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#725 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:25 AM

Its fine, it also gave me an excuse to procrastinate- and took me away from tumblr for a bit. So I got something in return.


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                                         Pls shame me for procrastinating.  :argh: 


#726 Atheck

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 07:15 AM

Still, it's best to not have the temptation.[  Naruto most likely won't become conceited.  However, it's fair concern,not only to others, but the person himself.


It's also best not to allow fear of the unknown and jealousy of what others have dictate their courses of action. Naruto doesn't have the power of the world in his pocket like Kaguya did. The Kages have their alliances and the bijuu behind them as a counterpoise if this scenario were to ever take place. Just to make a point, no one is as equally as skilled as the other. Disparities are ripe with shinobi based on a myriad of things like age, experience, rank, and potential. You can't do anymore to change that than you can to stop the flow of time (until a Space-Time ninjutsu is introduced that can do such a thing).
 

Anyway, it was just one of the reasons why I think the power-ups are temporary.  I think it's been established in the manga that ones with God-like powers fail.  Kaguya failed in her original objective; Hagoromo failed.

But that's will what happen eventually.  History proves that.  Ninshuu didn't stop wars; people just turned it into a weapon in the form of Ninjutsu.


Kaguya's objective was the subjugation of humanity by keeping the people's minds entranced in her genjutsu. The people that Hagoromo were acting to bring together went against his intentions by transforming chakra into tools of war. That wasn't so much a "failure" on his part as it was the inability of the masses to cope with something they were unfamiliar with; it was their own responce, their own emotions that dictated how they acted. Naruto's generation was brought up with the knowledge on how to control that power and it hasn't caused them to become arrogant or overbearing for the most part; moreover, they've found a common enemy to bring them together and allow them to see how the nations act when they're not at each other's throats.. It should speak for itself how discrepant the attitudes of Hagoromo's generation were next to the present day. History only repeats itself if the people are unwilling to change it. And I can see plenty that's changed now compared to the climate just one arc ago.
 

Ashura and Indra's fight ended up causing more damage and sacrifices.  I think Kishimoto has more or less wanted to portray that a person with God-like powers is not the one herald in peace. Proven more so once Kaguya is defeated.


Hagoromo explained that the reason for Indra's falling out with Ashura was that he had neglected to give the same consideration for him as he did for his brother. What does that imply? That if they were both treated with an equal amount of attentiveness, this blood feud could have been avoided? Humility might have been instilled and Hagoromo's desired wish for cooperation between his two children might have become a reality. This gives credence to the idea that nurture is more important than what you are or where you came from. Kaguya allowed her power to overtake her rationality, but that was her fatal weakness, not her descendants' (not until environmental conditions spurned and compelled them to do everything on their own, it was all downhill from there since Indra indoctrinated his own family to believe as he did).
 

I just meant that the hands with the moon symbols are the focal point for the new powers, and it's best to have the hand your more comfortable with.  That's all.

 
I think Naruto and Sasuke have more pressing matters on their mind besides personal comfort. Having a marking placed on the their other arm shouldn't hinder them in the slightest. Sure, it might not be coming from the arm they happen to write with, but emitting chakra has always been more than using favourited limbs. Arms, legs, feet, mouth... They're all used whenever necessary for a jutsu during battle. Shinobi should be trained in how to use their body efficiently for chakra emission.
 

What if Naruto is basically put in the same position as Hagoromo, and eras in peace?  His life is limited, and once he's gone the people will lose perspective, and start fighting again.  Another Naruto will have to be born thousands of years later to usher another temporary peace.  This is why peace that's forged around a single person is doomed to fail.  It's not one person that keeps peace, it's everyone.  Naruto can get everyone to take that responsibility even without all that power.


I'm sorry, but this is starting to sound more and more like unsupported presumptions of jealousy and anger that don't even exist. Why are they doomed to fail? If the people have improved means of communication, have shared experiences that would allow them to understand each other, and are willing to put forth the effort to achieve international peace like what they're doing now, there's no reason to assume that they will fail. This doesn't embody actual trust if you still harbour negative emotions which is not the direction that Kishi is taking the manga. Naruto has made his intentions clear about what he's to use his power for. He's not leeching off the energies of the world's population like Kaguya did nor is he enslaving everyone with a planet-scale genjutsu. There's nothing to contest about it without venturing into the world of fanfiction or unless Kishi decides to address the same flaws that plagued Kaguya to Naruto. If Kishi intends to have Naruto end with the world seeing a long-lasting peace then that's that.
 

It's really only Kurama that has to worry about that, and as I said, it would be a very circumstantial instance that won't risk Naruto's life.

The Bijuu can now live the way they see fit. If they say they want to stay with Naruto, I can't say otherwise, though it would be outside, not inside him, since Kurama is technically the only one really inside him, and it's only half of him.  The rest right now are inside Kaguya.  Really, it's complicated.

 
Kurama is not the only one, the bijuu explained how their chakra was seated in Naruto's body by Obito after realizing there wasn't enough strength to win. The Yin half is the only semi-complete bijuu inside of Naruto, but bits of the others have been retained.

Whatever choices the bijuu that are housed in Kaguya make, it shouldn't have any importance on what the fragments and Yin Kurama will decide upon. The prophecy correlates to Naruto fighting Sasuke, and he's admitted that in order to do so he would need Kurama's power. If they're going to fight, it's going to be with the abilities they have been developing since the early days (power which is derived from the bijuu).
 

Having them again fight the main antagonist, just mainly the two of them will be too repetitive.

Honestly, what was the point of that, if it's mainly going to be Naruto and Sasuke again?


This point has been brought up in several of your earlier posts and I've already given my thoughts on the matter; it's becoming an unending cycle.

How frequently Kishi rehashes the power up methods isn't important.

What's important is Kishi's intentions and the statements he's made concerning Naruto and Sasuke. Repetitiveness has no relevance unless the author chooses to make it so. They're only as strong as they need to be and if it's necessary for the drivers of the plot to receive another power increase, then that'll be it.

 

Plus, it undermines the teamwork declaration in chapter 675.


A team with members that have different functions does not violate or damage the spirit of teamwork. Teamwork shouldn't be limited to something as narrow as everyone charging an enemy and trying to kill them. That isn't how teamwork is defined. Take for example the Ino-Shika-Cho trio. Each member is given a respective role that they each fill. Shikamaru is the strategist, Ino operates as reconnaissance, and Choji is the brawn who inflicts damage. The motive is for each member working in tandem to benefit the group and achieve the greater objective. Sakura happens to do best in the medical field and Kakashi...well he's mostly dead weight at the moment but that's nothing Sakura can't rectify if she gets an opportunity to replenish his chakra.
 

From the last page in chapter 675, the audience expects it to be exactly as it looked.  All of team 7 fighting together, not Sakura and Kakashi do this small bit, and the rest is Naruto and Sasuke.  We didn't even get a fanservice chapter like chapter 632, quite the opposite. 
No, I believe things will play differently this time.


I saw a group of four that was once a combat unit years ago posing together for the typical cliffhanger page after being reunited for the second time, staring over towards the enemy with their guards raised.

"Catching the bells" implies having an objective, an objective means taking steps to ensure that you reach said objective, which can entail any kind of tactic being used. It just so happened that one played decoy, the other two tried landing attacks, and the last one observed everything from a distance. They did as much as I hoped they could with their professions and how much strength they have.
 
Believe it then. The manga will tell whose guesswork turned out right in the near future.
 

No one's saying that.  It's also an assumption that what she does is brief, and at her current state.


With the exception of her fights against Ino and Sasori, Sakura's involvement in combat tends to be limited. She wills herself to stand, rushes out to make a difference, and then retracts into obscurity after using a combo or two. That's the formulaic pattern used by her. If you need proof, glance over the altercation with the Sound nin, her bout with the centipede during the Pain arc, the impersonating Zetsu in the medical tent, the Jubi spawn, or most recently her diversion against Madara. Some of those skip the first step, but they all follow a noticeable routine of quick entrances and exits.

Outside of combat is another issue. Her talents as a medic are better emphasised and they tend to get more spotlight.
 

It's almost positive that she can't do anything in the current situation at her current level.  That's why something very circumstantial needs to happen to allow her the chance to contribute, and further develop her character.

 
I don't consider "development" in a team based environment to be limited strictly to attacks and how much punch they carry. If Sakura can make a difference through her prominent skillset as a medic, it will show how she's grown to rise against adversity and not let it overwhelm her. I think that's most important.
  

What is Spiral Zetsu going to do when we have the mighty Kaguya?


Play the act of loyal observer and await her orders? If/When Kaguya begins to feel pressured, Spiral Zetsu could have an important purpose in the making - to release an imperfect Zetsu army during a time of desperation or kill the remaining two survivors as Kaguya handles Naruto and Sasuke.
 

This is the reason Konan never had a fight during Pain arc.  It would really only serve as a fan-service battle that has no real relevance, and take up panel space by adding in another front.


We don't know the reasons for why Konan's actions were off-screen during the Invasion of Pain arc. The only one who has that answer is Kishi. I do have a suspicion that it might have been for similar reasons that Tsunade was denied a fight against God Realm though - to expedite Naruto's return.
 

Also, Spiral Zetsu discarded his filling Yamato to the IT, so he's not going to be as powerful as he was fighting the alliance. Really, he's as good as a fodder now.  We can actually speculate that he actually saves Obito by merging with him like before, though unlikely.


I know that it was Yamato's own Mokuton abilities amplifying Spiral Zetsu's that helped him do so well against the 5 Kages and the Alliance. An accomplishment of that calibre could have only been achieved by someone like Madara and there's an enormous gap between him (when he was a zombie) and the suggested level that Black Zetsu is on whose shoes Spiral Zetsu might fill (that's assuming Spiral Zetsu is equally as powerful as his darker counterpart). Someone who can handle themselves against the Mizukage and her squad is no one to be scoffed at.
 

Take the situation now.  It's just Kaguya, Team 7 and Obito.  She does not expect them to leave that cave alive, even force them into that lava if necessary.  I doubt the Edo's or Spiral Zetsu will be making an appearance any time soon, at the least.  I can only speculate, and I imagine that a few people will actually fall to their doom in some way, most likely not immediately, but eventually.  I doubt Kishimoto just changed the scenery for kicks.  Plus, one where it's easy for people to die.


That cave will not remain whole for very long. Not with the kind of powers that Naruto and Sasuke have. Just the collateral damage alone should destroy it if the duo decides to use their more powerful techniques.

Kaguya's ability to change the surroundings is a mystery. They could have either teleported to another location or Banbutsu Sozo was used to materialise the cave in the surrounding area. Regardless, a floor submerged completely in lava with congested surroundings is bound to cause enough issue to compel one or both sides to escape. But since Zetsu is able to fast travel using the earth, he might appear on the walls or ceiling in the next chapter.

Edited by Atheck, 08 June 2014 - 05:07 PM.


#727 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:29 PM

I'm sorry, but this is starting to sound more and more like unsupported presumptions of jealousy and anger that don't even exist. Why are they doomed to fail? If the people have improved means of communication, have shared experiences that would allow them to understand each other, and are willing to put forth the effort to achieve international peace like what they're doing now, there's no reason to assume that they will fail. This doesn't embody actual trust if you still harbour negative emotions which is not the direction that Kishi is taking the manga. Naruto has made his intentions clear about what he's to use his power for. He's not leeching off the energies of the world's population like Kaguya did nor is he enslaving everyone with a planet-scale genjutsu. There's nothing to contest about it without venturing into the world of fanfiction or unless Kishi decides to address the same flaws that plagued Kaguya to Naruto. If Kishi intends to have Naruto end with the world seeing a long-lasting peace then that's that.

But then it comes the problem.
Naruto's world even going by the scenario you pointed out, the world doesnt have generalizations.
Not everyone will accept it, and the problem is that coletivity doesnt work much.
Look at Madara as an example, Every uchiha and Senju, worked towards peace and a ceasefire and because Madara didnt accepted it, he did a lot of mess into the world.
If it was a world without chakra and jutsus, Madara would not be capable of doing what he did since he's just one person.
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#728 James S Cassidy

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:07 PM

I am very certain Sasuke's Rinnegan technique is flash stepping. Look at this
http://powerlisting....wiki/Flash_Step

"The power to use bursts of speed allowing the user to move faster than the eye can track, making it appear as if they have teleported."

Check.

 

"Many users can sustain only short dashes."

Check

"This technique is commonly used to dodge projectiles, move behind enemies, and show off speed"

Check.

"User may only be able to use the technique within a certain range or time."

Check.

The more I think about it, the more it fits.

 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 08 June 2014 - 04:08 PM.

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#729 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:21 PM

But then it comes the problem.
Naruto's world even going by the scenario you pointed out, the world doesnt have generalizations.
Not everyone will accept it, and the problem is that coletivity doesnt work much.
Look at Madara as an example, Every uchiha and Senju, worked towards peace and a ceasefire and because Madara didnt accepted it, he did a lot of mess into the world.
If it was a world without chakra and jutsus, Madara would not be capable of doing what he did since he's just one person.

 

Wouldn't that be applying real world standards to Naruto-verse though? realistically speaking, lets face it, Kishimoto goes beyond "suspending belief" when it comes to characterization. What real life people do you know who act the way Naruto and Sakura do towards Sasuke? Sakura is/was pretty much in love with him for NO REASON that has been stated, or alluded to in the entire series. ( unless its the forehead fiasco.)

Naruto pretty much throws EVERYTHING else in his life aside to chase after someone who doesn't give a fig about him- unless he's somehow managed to get stronger then Sasuke, or is in Sasuke's way or Sasuke NEEDS something from him. 

In what real world would a political figure throw out all common sense to let a bunch of kids chase after a traitor who by all rights and laws should be hunted down and executed on sight? In what real world could someone like Sasuke be redeemed and have a "happy ending" like so many people are hoping for? ( its not realistic nor do I want to see it, but knowing Kishimoto...)

These are just the examples off the top of my head but really, If we have to throw out logic for all of that, why can't we do it for a "peaceful world"? ( honestly, it makes me hack to think about that fluffy sort of world ending.)

...Naruto used to be kinda dark, now its all fluffy and full of missed opportunities. Its really sad to think about. 


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#730 Dkey

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:38 PM

I am very certain Sasuke's Rinnegan technique is flash stepping. Look at this
http://powerlisting....wiki/Flash_Step

"The power to use bursts of speed allowing the user to move faster than the eye can track, making it appear as if they have teleported."

Check.

 

"Many users can sustain only short dashes."

Check

"This technique is commonly used to dodge projectiles, move behind enemies, and show off speed"

Check.

"User may only be able to use the technique within a certain range or time."

Check.

The more I think about it, the more it fits.

 

 

I tried to find an ability that was used frequently in part 1 that is similar to what you link but didn't find it.

 

If people remember it Minato's thunder god technique was compared to this body flicker. The only difference is that Minato's couldn't be followed by the sharingan while the body flicker could. Also remember the substitute jutsu where they replaced their bodies with a lump of tree. Well isn't it similar?



#731 Atheck

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 05:27 PM

But then it comes the problem.
Naruto's world even going by the scenario you pointed out, the world doesnt have generalizations.
Not everyone will accept it, and the problem is that coletivity doesnt work much.
Look at Madara as an example, Every uchiha and Senju, worked towards peace and a ceasefire and because Madara didnt accepted it, he did a lot of mess into the world.
If it was a world without chakra and jutsus, Madara would not be capable of doing what he did since he's just one person.


That may be so, but that doesn't give someone an excuse to rob others of something that's now so fundamentally ingrained into their culture and bodies that to remove it would kill them. These conflicts have been on-going before chakra was ever even a thing and they would persist regardless if the people had it. If it's not with chakra then they'll resort to spears and their fists to kill. Some will retain the selfish and vindictive motives of men like Gatou, ambitious but cruel in their practice to achieve success. You change that by not making the mistake of neglecting children, ostracising others, and by nipping negative emotions in the bud. By trying to build cohesive relations with others and allowing them to help reach a peaceful solution when there's conflict. The fighting can only stop if the people are willing to change, and that would be an issue regardless if they were still living an agrarian lifestyle with no chakra over a thousand years ago or in the current era.

Edit: Tsuki Hoshino has a valid point about the virtuous overtones of the manga. The complicated questions brought up in reality won't necessarily hold in the world that Kishi has created.

Edited by Atheck, 08 June 2014 - 05:38 PM.


#732 James S Cassidy

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 06:08 PM

 

I tried to find an ability that was used frequently in part 1 that is similar to what you link but didn't find it.

 

If people remember it Minato's thunder god technique was compared to this body flicker. The only difference is that Minato's couldn't be followed by the sharingan while the body flicker could. Also remember the substitute jutsu where they replaced their bodies with a lump of tree. Well isn't it similar?

Actually, the whole thing with the FTG and the bodyflicker was not their similarities, but how they were mistaken to be the same thing. Body flicker is just great speed masked with a distraction like a puff of smoke which people confused with the FTG. The FTG is an actual teleportation and the user doesn't really "move" across the plain. He brings the destination to him.

http://naruto.wikia....icker_Technique

I know the Naruto wiki is horrible, but this has a link to the source.

"There has been some confusion in some translations between this and space–time ninjutsu, but these are indeed different techniques, as this technique isn't teleportation, just an extremely swift movement"

A flashstep is different in that you still "Traverse" across the ground, but at such high speed that time almost just stops.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 08 June 2014 - 06:09 PM.

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#733 FireFox

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:56 PM

I am very certain Sasuke's Rinnegan technique is flash stepping. Look at this
http://powerlisting....wiki/Flash_Step

"The power to use bursts of speed allowing the user to move faster than the eye can track, making it appear as if they have teleported."

Check.

 

"Many users can sustain only short dashes."

Check

"This technique is commonly used to dodge projectiles, move behind enemies, and show off speed"

Check.

"User may only be able to use the technique within a certain range or time."

Check.

The more I think about it, the more it fits.

 

But isn't this the same as the Body Flicker technique ? The way you put it it seems that its the same jutsu but on a higher level but what sets up Sasuke's jutsu different from this is that he uses his eye the Rinengan for this instead putting a high amount of chakra in his feat like the Body Flicker jutsu requires  . Also i don't understand how gaining the Rinengan would make him a thousand time faster then he was because before this he was a thousand times slower then Naruto and he shouldn't be any faster now considering the amount of chakra that Naruto has received from all of the Bijuu's so what gives ?

 

To me it seems that it's a jutsu that stops time  every movement for a moment/a mere second and for that moment he's the only one who is able to move thus making him like he's Body Flickering or Short Range Teleporting But Teleportation on itself is definitely Not the case in here .   

 

 

I tried to find an ability that was used frequently in part 1 that is similar to what you link but didn't find it.

 

If people remember it Minato's thunder god technique was compared to this body flicker. The only difference is that Minato's couldn't be followed by the sharingan while the body flicker could. Also remember the substitute jutsu where they replaced their bodies with a lump of tree. Well isn't it similar?

I believe what you are talking about is the Substitution Jutsu http://naruto.wikia....ement_Technique  but its not the same as the FTG like @James said The BF is a high speed movement while the FTG is pure teleprtation that doesn't require "Speed" , they are two different techniques so  "Speed" is the key element in here the one requires Speed while the other doesn't for the jutsu to function . The confusion comes from the translations because the word for Teleportation and Shunshin no Jutsu (Body Flicker) is the same in Japanese .


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#734 Dkey

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:16 PM

Actually, the whole thing with the FTG and the bodyflicker was not their similarities, but how they were mistaken to be the same thing. Body flicker is just great speed masked with a distraction like a puff of smoke which people confused with the FTG. The FTG is an actual teleportation and the user doesn't really "move" across the plain. He brings the destination to him.

http://naruto.wikia....icker_Technique

I know the Naruto wiki is horrible, but this has a link to the source.

"There has been some confusion in some translations between this and space–time ninjutsu, but these are indeed different techniques, as this technique isn't teleportation, just an extremely swift movement"

A flashstep is different in that you still "Traverse" across the ground, but at such high speed that time almost just stops.

 

 

But isn't this the same as the Body Flicker technique ? The way you put it it seems that its the same jutsu but on a higher level but what sets up Sasuke's jutsu different from this is that he uses his eye the Rinengan for this instead putting a high amount of chakra in his feat like the Body Flicker jutsu requires  . Also i don't understand how gaining the Rinengan would make him a thousand time faster then he was because before this he was a thousand times slower then Naruto and he shouldn't be any faster now considering the amount of chakra that Naruto has received from all of the Bijuu's so what gives ?

 

To me it seems that it's a jutsu that stops time  every movement for a moment/a mere second and for that moment he's the only one who is able to move thus making him like he's Body Flickering or Short Range Teleporting But Teleportation on itself is definitely Not the case in here .   

 

I believe what you are talking about is the Substitution Jutsu http://naruto.wikia....ement_Technique  but its not the same as the FTG like @James said The BF is a high speed movement while the FTG is pure teleprtation that doesn't require "Speed" , they are two different techniques so  "Speed" is the key element in here the one requires Speed while the other doesn't for the jutsu to function . The confusion comes from the translations because the word for Teleportation and Shunshin no Jutsu (Body Flicker) is the same in Japanese .

 

 

Anyway what I meant is that I don't think Sasuke used FTG but a body flicker technique. And it fits because Naruto was just running towards Madara/Kaguya.



#735 FireFox

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:40 PM

 

 

 

 

Anyway what I meant is that I don't think Sasuke used FTG but a body flicker technique. And it fits because Naruto was just running towards Madara/Kaguya.

I see you meant that what Sasuke  used isn't a Teleportation on that we agree , but i can't say that's BF either because he uses his Rainengan for that which the BF doesn't require an Eye Doijutsu for someone to be able to use the BF technique so its something else . I would say its a combination of the BF and whatever the hell his Rinengan jutsu is which i think its stooping time for a very brief moment time will tell us what it is i hope . But i absolutely hate how Kishi nerfs Naruto's speed ability in therms of Sasuke and never makes him use it and makes him look like a slowpoke when he should be so much faster then him *sign*.   


Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 08 June 2014 - 09:41 PM.

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#736 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:11 PM

I see you meant that what Sasuke  used isn't a Teleportation on that we agree , but i can't say that's BF either because he uses his Rainengan for that which the BF doesn't require an Eye Doijutsu for someone to be able to use the BF technique so its something else . I would say its a combination of the BF and whatever the hell his Rinengan jutsu is which i think its stooping time for a very brief moment time will tell us what it is i hope . But i absolutely hate how Kishi nerfs Naruto's speed ability in therms of Sasuke and never makes him use it and makes him look like a slowpoke when he should be so much faster then him *sign*.


Well i dont think it's a technique, i just believe he's faster now due to indra powers.
Sasuke was always fast in terms of speed, Naruto only managed to caught up with when he became a senju and Naruto's speed is relative and he's only hella fast when Kishimoto wants, like now as an example.
He's slower than Sasuke but when he was fighting Madara when he came out first he blitz'ed Madara with his insane speed at that time.
It was on pair wtih Gai's.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 08 June 2014 - 10:11 PM.

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#737 Otaru

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:47 PM

Quick question, does Hagoromo mean anything? Is it a city? 

 

I posted something long ago.

Hagoromo is a famous play of Nô theatre, in Japan.

It's based on a well known legend about a celest dress of feathers.

In the old popular story, a young girl is forced to marry the young man that has took and hidden the celest dress. But in the Nô play, the young man Hakuryo give the celest dress back.

It seems to be the most frequently played Nô play.

 

Hagoromo is alsa called a "cape of feathers".

There is many stories about it on the web. You can search and see ^^


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#738 FireFox

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:08 PM

Well i dont think it's a technique, i just believe he's faster now due to indra powers.
Sasuke was always fast in terms of speed, Naruto only managed to caught up with when he became a senju and Naruto's speed is relative and he's only hella fast when Kishimoto wants, like now as an example.
He's slower than Sasuke but when he was fighting Madara when he came out first he blitz'ed Madara with his insane speed at that time.
It was on pair wtih Gai's.

He is using the eye for that "speed" so its clear that it's a jutsu besides how can Indra's power make him a thousand times faster then what he was before when Naruto who was faster then him should be even faster now due to the Bijuu's chakra like Madara fast maybe even beyond that it doesn't make any sense for Sasuke to gain this level of speed just because of Indra's power which is the Rinengan not "speed"  then what about Ashura's power that Naruto has received ?

 

Sasuke was always fast but never Minato fast or Raikage per say and Naruto wasn't a slowpoke either he was fast as well i would say that he was equal with him after the Pain arc . 

 

When you say when he became "Senju" you mean when he took Kurama's chakra ? If it's so then you are dead wrong how in the world he caught up to Sasuke then when Naruto was even compared to the Yellow Flash and blitz the Raikage like Minato did you mean to tell me that Sasuke was always that fast ? Sorry but that's crap he was never on that level his fight at the Kage summit proves this .

 

And here lies the problem Naruto has the highest amount of chakra and he should be able to use it at any time he certainly won't drop dead if he used it more oftenly but Kishi builds the villains insanely fast one after another and makes them use that speed constantly while with Naruto its relative as you say he makes him seem like a slowpoke by not making him use that speed to his advantage and this is a problem created by Kishi . 


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" I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

#739 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:49 AM

He is using the eye for that "speed" so its clear that it's a jutsu besides how can Indra's power make him a thousand times faster then what he was before when Naruto who was faster then him should be even faster now due to the Bijuu's chakra like Madara fast maybe even beyond that it doesn't make any sense for Sasuke to gain this level of speed just because of Indra's power which is the Rinengan not "speed"  then what about Ashura's power that Naruto has received ?

Can you provide the panel because i dont know about it.
Speed is totally relative on the series, remember how Naruto was faster than the Raikage and he's suddenly slow now?
I really dont know seems like Kishimoto's trolling to me.
It was heavily implied on that time he surpassed his father in speed and we're getting this nonsense.
That's why i have doubts about it.
I've seen Naruto doing somewhat similar when he flashed after passing by Raikage and Tsunade, and this when he was only on Kyuubi's chakra form he wasnt even with the cloak.

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When you say when he became "Senju" you mean when he took Kurama's chakra ? If it's so then you are dead wrong how in the world he caught up to Sasuke then when Naruto was even compared to the Yellow Flash and blitz the Raikage like Minato did you mean to tell me that Sasuke was always that fast ? Sorry but that's crap he was never on that level his fight at the Kage summit proves this .

Pain's arc, the senjutsu increased all his attributes and the range of his attacks as said by the toad.
His speed increased too.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 09 June 2014 - 12:54 AM.

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#740 rocci

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:54 AM

Base sasuke is faster than base naruto, but when naruto enter his mode, he become faster than sasuke.
Sasuke rinnegan ability is a short range teleportation or swap object or both.




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